timschochet

The North Korea Thread: Trump has completely blown this

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North Korea doesn't act irrationally.

Has Obama done anything in the ay of the initiatives carried forward by Clinton and Bush Jr.? Direct diplomacy on the nuclear reactor? Multi-nation talks? Anything?

There's nothing Obama can really do about North Korea being crazy. This is a problem that doesn't have a good solution. He's doing the best he can by showing a little force but keeping a cool head otherwise.

NK isn't crazy. They may make misjudgments, but they act with reason.

How would you rate the way they treat their citizens? Forced starvation, mass gulags and state mandated almost total devaluation of all savings, as reasonable?

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I wonder if all those pukes like Psy still want us to leave. Hippocrates.

A small part of me dies a little inside everytime somebody does this.
Going to have to unpack that a bit

Sure thing, Hippocrates.

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North Korea doesn't act irrationally.

Has Obama done anything in the ay of the initiatives carried forward by Clinton and Bush Jr.? Direct diplomacy on the nuclear reactor? Multi-nation talks? Anything?

There's nothing Obama can really do about North Korea being crazy. This is a problem that doesn't have a good solution. He's doing the best he can by showing a little force but keeping a cool head otherwise.

NK isn't crazy. They may make misjudgments, but they act with reason.

How would you rate the way they treat their citizens? Forced starvation, mass gulags and state mandated almost total devaluation of all savings, as reasonable?

They treat their citizens horribly. What's that have to do with being crazy?

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I wonder if all those pukes like Psy still want us to leave. Hippocrates.

A small part of me dies a little inside everytime somebody does this.
Going to have to unpack that a bit

Sure thing, Hippocrates.

A bit hippersensitive are we?

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North Korea doesn't act irrationally.

Has Obama done anything in the ay of the initiatives carried forward by Clinton and Bush Jr.? Direct diplomacy on the nuclear reactor? Multi-nation talks? Anything?

There's nothing Obama can really do about North Korea being crazy. This is a problem that doesn't have a good solution. He's doing the best he can by showing a little force but keeping a cool head otherwise.

NK isn't crazy. They may make misjudgments, but they act with reason.

How would you rate the way they treat their citizens? Forced starvation, mass gulags and state mandated almost total devaluation of all savings, as reasonable?

They treat their citizens horribly. What's that have to do with being crazy?

"Horribly" doesn't really reach it. I mean critics of the USA inside and out said our government was "horrible" for not providing state health insurance or care.

Someone has to be on a whole other level of horror to do what they do. Their whole system of existence is irrational, in fact it's insane by definition, the whole thing is just plain mad.

There are several instances in world history where nice, calm, wealthy westerners just failed to contemplate just how crazy some dictatorial regimes could be.

I'm not saying I know what they will do, I'm just saying no one knows what they will do and they could act in what we would perceive to be a totally irrational, unreasoned, self-destructive fashion.

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North Korea doesn't act irrationally.

Has Obama done anything in the ay of the initiatives carried forward by Clinton and Bush Jr.? Direct diplomacy on the nuclear reactor? Multi-nation talks? Anything?

There's nothing Obama can really do about North Korea being crazy. This is a problem that doesn't have a good solution. He's doing the best he can by showing a little force but keeping a cool head otherwise.

NK isn't crazy. They may make misjudgments, but they act with reason.

How would you rate the way they treat their citizens? Forced starvation, mass gulags and state mandated almost total devaluation of all savings, as reasonable?

They treat their citizens horribly. What's that have to do with being crazy?

"Horribly" doesn't really reach it. I mean critics of the USA inside and out said our government was "horrible" for not providing state health insurance or care.

Someone has to be on a whole other level of horror to do what they do. Their whole system of existence is irrational, in fact it's insane by definition, the whole thing is just plain mad.

There are several instances in world history where nice, calm, wealthy westerners just failed to contemplate just how crazy some dictatorial regimes could be.

I'm not saying I know what they will do, I'm just saying no one knows what they will do and they could act in what we would perceive to be a totally irrational, unreasoned, self-destructive fashion.

It seems like you know an awful lot about them, except for this.

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"Horribly" doesn't really reach it. I mean critics of the USA inside and out said our government was "horrible" for not providing state health insurance or care.

Someone has to be on a whole other level of horror to do what they do. Their whole system of existence is irrational, in fact it's insane by definition, the whole thing is just plain mad.

The institution of slavery was a pretty horrible thing, too. Was every President from Washington to Lincoln a raving lunatic capable of launching nukes at Paris on a whim?

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"Horribly" doesn't really reach it. I mean critics of the USA inside and out said our government was "horrible" for not providing state health insurance or care.

Someone has to be on a whole other level of horror to do what they do. Their whole system of existence is irrational, in fact it's insane by definition, the whole thing is just plain mad.

The institution of slavery was a pretty horrible thing, too. Was every President from Washington to Lincoln a raving lunatic capable of launching nukes at Paris on a whim?

:kicksrock:

If only we had nukes back then...we did #### over the American Indians pretty good in that time frame, that has to count for something.

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"Horribly" doesn't really reach it. I mean critics of the USA inside and out said our government was "horrible" for not providing state health insurance or care.

Someone has to be on a whole other level of horror to do what they do. Their whole system of existence is irrational, in fact it's insane by definition, the whole thing is just plain mad.

The institution of slavery was a pretty horrible thing, too. Was every President from Washington to Lincoln a raving lunatic capable of launching nukes at Paris on a whim?

No, but we did end up in the bloodiest most deadliest war in our nation's history over it though. I'd say that was pretty darned crazy and self-destructive from the South's point of view considering they fired the first shot.

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"Horribly" doesn't really reach it. I mean critics of the USA inside and out said our government was "horrible" for not providing state health insurance or care.

Someone has to be on a whole other level of horror to do what they do. Their whole system of existence is irrational, in fact it's insane by definition, the whole thing is just plain mad.

The institution of slavery was a pretty horrible thing, too. Was every President from Washington to Lincoln a raving lunatic capable of launching nukes at Paris on a whim?

No, but we did end up in the bloodiest most deadliest war in our nation's history over it though. I'd say that was pretty darned crazy and self-destructive from the South's point of view considering they fired the first shot.

And if Jefferson Davis had possessed nuclear weapons he would not have hesitated to use them.

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North Korea doesn't act irrationally.

Has Obama done anything in the ay of the initiatives carried forward by Clinton and Bush Jr.? Direct diplomacy on the nuclear reactor? Multi-nation talks? Anything?

There's nothing Obama can really do about North Korea being crazy. This is a problem that doesn't have a good solution. He's doing the best he can by showing a little force but keeping a cool head otherwise.

NK isn't crazy. They may make misjudgments, but they act with reason.

How would you rate the way they treat their citizens? Forced starvation, mass gulags and state mandated almost total devaluation of all savings, as reasonable?

They treat their citizens horribly. What's that have to do with being crazy?

"Horribly" doesn't really reach it. I mean critics of the USA inside and out said our government was "horrible" for not providing state health insurance or care.

Someone has to be on a whole other level of horror to do what they do. Their whole system of existence is irrational, in fact it's insane by definition, the whole thing is just plain mad.

There are several instances in world history where nice, calm, wealthy westerners just failed to contemplate just how crazy some dictatorial regimes could be.

I'm not saying I know what they will do, I'm just saying no one knows what they will do and they could act in what we would perceive to be a totally irrational, unreasoned, self-destructive fashion.

It's built about preservation of the power of the political elite, which is why odds are they won't (intentionally) provoke a full blown war. They play a "crazy like a fox" game, just like Saddam did and just like the Iranians do, but that doesn't mean they're irrational. They are weighing cost and benefit and, while you disagree with the decisions they make and they certainly have unintended consequences that bit them in the ### from time to time (as is the case with every government, BTW), your moral objections to the way they conduct themselves don't make them irrational.

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"Horribly" doesn't really reach it. I mean critics of the USA inside and out said our government was "horrible" for not providing state health insurance or care.

Someone has to be on a whole other level of horror to do what they do. Their whole system of existence is irrational, in fact it's insane by definition, the whole thing is just plain mad.

The institution of slavery was a pretty horrible thing, too. Was every President from Washington to Lincoln a raving lunatic capable of launching nukes at Paris on a whim?

No, but we did end up in the bloodiest most deadliest war in our nation's history over it though. I'd say that was pretty darned crazy and self-destructive from the South's point of view considering they fired the first shot.

And if Jefferson Davis had possessed nuclear weapons he would not have hesitated to use them.

Yow, good point.

As a side note, the plot by Booth was desigend to kill not only Lincoln but also simultaneously the next two in line for succession, VP Johnson and SOS Seward, and if successful it might have resulted in a coup d'etat of the USA. They were willing to blow the whole thing up.

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North Korea doesn't act irrationally.

Has Obama done anything in the ay of the initiatives carried forward by Clinton and Bush Jr.? Direct diplomacy on the nuclear reactor? Multi-nation talks? Anything?

There's nothing Obama can really do about North Korea being crazy. This is a problem that doesn't have a good solution. He's doing the best he can by showing a little force but keeping a cool head otherwise.

NK isn't crazy. They may make misjudgments, but they act with reason.

How would you rate the way they treat their citizens? Forced starvation, mass gulags and state mandated almost total devaluation of all savings, as reasonable?

They treat their citizens horribly. What's that have to do with being crazy?

"Horribly" doesn't really reach it. I mean critics of the USA inside and out said our government was "horrible" for not providing state health insurance or care.

Someone has to be on a whole other level of horror to do what they do. Their whole system of existence is irrational, in fact it's insane by definition, the whole thing is just plain mad.

There are several instances in world history where nice, calm, wealthy westerners just failed to contemplate just how crazy some dictatorial regimes could be.

I'm not saying I know what they will do, I'm just saying no one knows what they will do and they could act in what we would perceive to be a totally irrational, unreasoned, self-destructive fashion.

It's built about preservation of the power of the political elite, which is why odds are they won't (intentionally) provoke a full blown war. They play a "crazy like a fox" game, just like Saddam did and just like the Iranians do, but that doesn't mean they're irrational. They are weighing cost and benefit and, while you disagree with the decisions they make and they certainly have unintended consequences that bit them in the ### from time to time (as is the case with every government, BTW), your moral objections to the way they conduct themselves don't make them irrational.

Well, you can take our moral objections out of it, the way they act is irrational generally, that's my point.

& not to get into that, but one sane thing Hussein could have done was let the inspectors in and another would have been to leave Iraq like the Shah, or maybe not have pretended to have a WMD program in the first place, etc.

MAD is no guarantee, and as I've said sane nations of the world like USA-USSR 1962 have gone to the brink and some of the more insane dictatorships of the past have gone right over it.

Amazes me some people say they know KJU or his pupeteers won't cross that line.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

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North Korea doesn't act irrationally.

Has Obama done anything in the ay of the initiatives carried forward by Clinton and Bush Jr.? Direct diplomacy on the nuclear reactor? Multi-nation talks? Anything?

There's nothing Obama can really do about North Korea being crazy. This is a problem that doesn't have a good solution. He's doing the best he can by showing a little force but keeping a cool head otherwise.

NK isn't crazy. They may make misjudgments, but they act with reason.

Yeah, you're right. I shouldn't have put it that way. "Difficult" would have been a better choice of words.

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North Korea doesn't act irrationally.

Has Obama done anything in the ay of the initiatives carried forward by Clinton and Bush Jr.? Direct diplomacy on the nuclear reactor? Multi-nation talks? Anything?

There's nothing Obama can really do about North Korea being crazy. This is a problem that doesn't have a good solution. He's doing the best he can by showing a little force but keeping a cool head otherwise.

NK isn't crazy. They may make misjudgments, but they act with reason.

How would you rate the way they treat their citizens? Forced starvation, mass gulags and state mandated almost total devaluation of all savings, as reasonable?

They treat their citizens horribly. What's that have to do with being crazy?

"Horribly" doesn't really reach it. I mean critics of the USA inside and out said our government was "horrible" for not providing state health insurance or care.

Someone has to be on a whole other level of horror to do what they do. Their whole system of existence is irrational, in fact it's insane by definition, the whole thing is just plain mad.

There are several instances in world history where nice, calm, wealthy westerners just failed to contemplate just how crazy some dictatorial regimes could be.

I'm not saying I know what they will do, I'm just saying no one knows what they will do and they could act in what we would perceive to be a totally irrational, unreasoned, self-destructive fashion.

It's built about preservation of the power of the political elite, which is why odds are they won't (intentionally) provoke a full blown war. They play a "crazy like a fox" game, just like Saddam did and just like the Iranians do, but that doesn't mean they're irrational. They are weighing cost and benefit and, while you disagree with the decisions they make and they certainly have unintended consequences that bit them in the ### from time to time (as is the case with every government, BTW), your moral objections to the way they conduct themselves don't make them irrational.

Well, you can take our moral objections out of it, the way they act is irrational generally, that's my point.

& not to get into that, but one sane thing Hussein could have done was let the inspectors in and another would have been to leave Iraq like the Shah, or maybe not have pretended to have a WMD program in the first place, etc.

MAD is no guarantee, and as I've said sane nations of the world like USA-USSR 1962 have gone to the brink and some of the more insane dictatorships of the past have gone right over it.

Amazes me some people say they know KJU or his pupeteers won't cross that line.

How do you distinguish irrational from "crazy like a fox"?

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"Horribly" doesn't really reach it. I mean critics of the USA inside and out said our government was "horrible" for not providing state health insurance or care.

Someone has to be on a whole other level of horror to do what they do. Their whole system of existence is irrational, in fact it's insane by definition, the whole thing is just plain mad.

The institution of slavery was a pretty horrible thing, too. Was every President from Washington to Lincoln a raving lunatic capable of launching nukes at Paris on a whim?

No, but we did end up in the bloodiest most deadliest war in our nation's history over it though. I'd say that was pretty darned crazy and self-destructive from the South's point of view considering they fired the first shot.

And if Jefferson Davis had possessed nuclear weapons he would not have hesitated to use them.

Yes, yes, Davis' affinity and desire for WMD's is well known. :mellow:

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North Korea doesn't act irrationally.

Has Obama done anything in the ay of the initiatives carried forward by Clinton and Bush Jr.? Direct diplomacy on the nuclear reactor? Multi-nation talks? Anything?

There's nothing Obama can really do about North Korea being crazy. This is a problem that doesn't have a good solution. He's doing the best he can by showing a little force but keeping a cool head otherwise.

NK isn't crazy. They may make misjudgments, but they act with reason.

How would you rate the way they treat their citizens? Forced starvation, mass gulags and state mandated almost total devaluation of all savings, as reasonable?

They treat their citizens horribly. What's that have to do with being crazy?

"Horribly" doesn't really reach it. I mean critics of the USA inside and out said our government was "horrible" for not providing state health insurance or care.

Someone has to be on a whole other level of horror to do what they do. Their whole system of existence is irrational, in fact it's insane by definition, the whole thing is just plain mad.

There are several instances in world history where nice, calm, wealthy westerners just failed to contemplate just how crazy some dictatorial regimes could be.

I'm not saying I know what they will do, I'm just saying no one knows what they will do and they could act in what we would perceive to be a totally irrational, unreasoned, self-destructive fashion.

It's built about preservation of the power of the political elite, which is why odds are they won't (intentionally) provoke a full blown war. They play a "crazy like a fox" game, just like Saddam did and just like the Iranians do, but that doesn't mean they're irrational. They are weighing cost and benefit and, while you disagree with the decisions they make and they certainly have unintended consequences that bit them in the ### from time to time (as is the case with every government, BTW), your moral objections to the way they conduct themselves don't make them irrational.

Chief of Staff General Martin Dempsey explains why Iran is a rational actor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkejCaytino. He got a heap load of crap over his comments.

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"Horribly" doesn't really reach it. I mean critics of the USA inside and out said our government was "horrible" for not providing state health insurance or care.

Someone has to be on a whole other level of horror to do what they do. Their whole system of existence is irrational, in fact it's insane by definition, the whole thing is just plain mad.

There are several instances in world history where nice, calm, wealthy westerners just failed to contemplate just how crazy some dictatorial regimes could be.

I'm not saying I know what they will do, I'm just saying no one knows what they will do and they could act in what we would perceive to be a totally irrational, unreasoned, self-destructive fashion.

It's built about preservation of the power of the political elite, which is why odds are they won't (intentionally) provoke a full blown war. They play a "crazy like a fox" game, just like Saddam did and just like the Iranians do, but that doesn't mean they're irrational. They are weighing cost and benefit and, while you disagree with the decisions they make and they certainly have unintended consequences that bit them in the ### from time to time (as is the case with every government, BTW), your moral objections to the way they conduct themselves don't make them irrational.

Chief of Staff General Martin Dempsey explains why Iran is a rational actor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkejCaytino. He got a heap load of crap over his comments.

This was a debate during the Cold War regarding the Soviets too. It's emotionally easy/satisfying to vilify an enemy as being irrational, less than human, etc. I think it tends to be counter-productive when you're trying to objectively analyze them as you need to.

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I wonder if all those pukes like Psy still want us to leave. Hippocrates.

A small part of me dies a little inside everytime somebody does this.

Going to have to unpack that a bit

Sure thing, Hippocrates.

A bit hippersensitive are we?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VF9eC89V1kg/UIDSy82wZaI/AAAAAAAAAv8/ubkxRNexa9A/s1600/madagascar+gloria+on+beach+with+starfish.jpg

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I got an idea. How about we just remove ourselves from the situation by leaving South Korea tell the North they can have it?

I got an idea, Neville - appeasement doesn't work.

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I got an idea. How about we just remove ourselves from the situation by leaving South Korea tell the North they can have it?

I got an idea, Neville - appeasement doesn't work.

Good point.

We need to just Nuke'em.

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I got an idea. How about we just remove ourselves from the situation by leaving South Korea tell the North they can have it?

I got an idea, Neville - appeasement doesn't work.

Good point.

We need to just Nuke'em.

in all fairness

appeasment historically has not worked and the only time(s) nukes were used they did

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I wonder if all those pukes like Psy still want us to leave. Hippocrates.

A small part of me dies a little inside everytime somebody does this.
Going to have to unpack that a bit
:lmao: :lmao:
Stat.

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I got an idea. How about we just remove ourselves from the situation by leaving South Korea tell the North they can have it?

I got an idea, Neville - appeasement doesn't work.

Good point.

We need to just Nuke'em.

Yes, because our only two policies options are "Do nothing and abandon our ally" or "All-out nuclear strike." Can't believe you got passed over for Secretary of State.

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I wonder if all those pukes like Psy still want us to leave. Hippocrates.

A small part of me dies a little inside everytime somebody does this.
Going to have to unpack that a bit
:lmao: :lmao:
Stat.
Lol. I get it now. Stupid spell checker. (Doesn't help I can't spell worth a darn)

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Since i'm too close to actually looking at the issue from our end usually... I can't tell, tell me that the windows 8 update was a joke.

Edited by FattyVM

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Since i'm too close to actually looking at the issue from our end usually... I can't tell, tell me that the windows 8 update was a joke.

No its true. Kim Jong Un's IT department has been begging him to migrate to Linux, but he so far has refused. Seems his Nuclear Launch program is written for windows and he doesnโ€™t want to invest in rewriting the program as it would set his weapons program back 12-24 months (depending on if he can get some Chinese devs or not).

He also feels one evil empire should support another.

Despite using an iPhone, he did behead someone who suggested they move to OS X.

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Since i'm too close to actually looking at the issue from our end usually... I can't tell, tell me that the windows 8 update was a joke.

No its true. Kim Jong Un's IT department has been begging him to migrate to Linux, but he so far has refused. Seems his Nuclear Launch program is written for windows and he doesnโ€™t want to invest in rewriting the program as it would set his weapons program back 12-24 months (depending on if he can get some Chinese devs or not).

He also feels one evil empire should support another.

Despite using an iPhone, he did behead someone who suggested they move to OS X.

Ok, laughed straight for five minutes. Thanks Fennis.

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I got an idea. How about we just remove ourselves from the situation by leaving South Korea tell the North they can have it?

Totally. And just throw in Czechoslovakia while you're at it.

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:tumbleweed:

Last I read about this, junior finally came out with a list of demands that would allow him to back off the sabre rattling.

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I got an idea. How about we just remove ourselves from the situation by leaving South Korea tell the North they can have it?

Totally. And just throw in Czechoslovakia while you're at it.

:lol: I see what you're doing here.

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Since i'm too close to actually looking at the issue from our end usually... I can't tell, tell me that the windows 8 update was a joke.

No its true. Kim Jong Un's IT department has been begging him to migrate to Linux, but he so far has refused. Seems his Nuclear Launch program is written for windows and he doesnโ€™t want to invest in rewriting the program as it would set his weapons program back 12-24 months (depending on if he can get some Chinese devs or not).

He also feels one evil empire should support another.

Despite using an iPhone, he did behead someone who suggested they move to OS X.

Also, they would have used Apple but they're too short on food.

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http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/northkorea/2013/05/03/92/0401000000AEN20130503008400315F.HTML

China will not accept N. Korea as 'nuclear-armed state': official
SEOUL, May 3 (Yonhap) -- China's chief nuclear envoy has told his South Korean counterpart that Beijing will not accept North Korea as a "nuclear-armed state," a high-ranking Seoul official said Friday, adding that Seoul, Washington and Beijing reached a consensus on the stance.

The Chinese envoy Wu Dawei made the remarks when he held talks on Thursday in Beijing with his Seoul counterpart Lim Sung-nam, said the official at Seoul's foreign ministry who is familiar with the Lim-Wu talks.

The remarks come amid signs that recent tensions might hurt ties between Beijing and Pyongyang, highlighting China's waning tolerance for its neighbor's provocations.

"During the talks, Wu made it clear that China will not accept North Korea as a nuclear-armed state," said the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

"With regard to the issue, I think that we, the U.S. and China have shared a united stance," the official said, adding he "sensed" a growing impatience by China with North Korea's increasing saber-rattling, particularly after the North's December rocket launch and its third nuclear test in February.

The official said Chinese officials have shown a "significant difference" in their attitude toward North Korea's provocations during the Beijing talks.

Wu's comments also echoed remarks made by U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry when he visited Beijing and Seoul last month and told reporters in Seoul that, "The United States will not accept the DPRK (North Korea) as a nuclear state."

The Seoul official also confirmed some media reports that China has ordered its provincial government to strictly implement the latest U.N. sanctions that punished the North for conducting the third nuclear test.........

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