msommer
Footballguy
Didn't the right call the deal the worst ever, something something billions, treason?
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North Korea thread (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
msommer
Footballguy
My point is the irony in that the right is now trying to say it is righteous go down the path they thought was treasonous a few years ago.
ETA: Not least after tearing up the deal they abhorred
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The Commish
Footballguy
So no? I'll even go one for one with you if this is genuine. I don't sense that it is at the moment but id be happy to be wrong.
I agree. All I'm saying is there is precedent for engaging a despotic regime without preconditions that has led to a successful outcome. Not my personal approach but the jury's out on whether it might work.
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
I'm looking forward to a return to British rule. Already have a powered wig and of course my set of Princess Di commemorative plates.
msommer
Footballguy
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
Rove!
Footballguy
Obama was right. The hawks were never able to apply a logical rationale to that stance...
timschochet
Footballguy
msommer
Footballguy
I'm sure there are facebook tests you can take. Other than that, Manchester City is popular right now
whoknew
Footballguy
Also - there are other ways to build trust. Like, for example, State Department talks. If we still had a State Department.
ren hoek
Footballguy
Moments before meeting with Kim, Trump also thanked U.S. and South Korean troops stationed on the border and scrawled his familiar signature on the brick wall inside the U.S. post along the DMZ.
South Korean President Moon Jae-in praised the president for engaging North Korea, saying at a news conference before the meeting that, “President Trump is the maker of peace on the Korean peninsula.”
“Sixty-six years after the armistice, North Korea and the U.S. will meet,” Moon said at the news conference. “For the first time, U.S. and North Korean leaders will stand face to face at Panmunjom, a symbol of the division, and shake hands for peace.”
Trump described the planning for the meeting in the most casual of terms. “I was just thinking yesterday, ‘Hey, I'm here, let’s see if we can say hello to Kim Jong Un,’” Trump said at the news conference. “There’s a lot of good feeling.” //
Moon endorsed the meeting with Kim at the outset of his own meeting with Trump here on Sunday afternoon.
A handshake across the border that has separated North and South Korea since the 1953 armistice that ended the Korean War would be an immensely powerful image, he said.
“I believe that picture in itself would represent a historic event, and this will be a significant milestone in the peace process on the Korean peninsula,” Moon said at the outset of a meeting with Trump.
Moon spoke to Trump over dinner Saturday about what he described as Kim’s resolve to denuclearize and spoke positively of the North Korean leader, Moon’s spokesman told local reporters.
https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-korea-dmz-kim-moon-20190630-story.html
The difference between actual Koreans with an actual stake in this, including the President of South Korea and his people, and our cynical blowhard media couldn't be any more out of touch with reality.
South Korean President Moon Jae-in praised the president for engaging North Korea, saying at a news conference before the meeting that, “President Trump is the maker of peace on the Korean peninsula.”
“Sixty-six years after the armistice, North Korea and the U.S. will meet,” Moon said at the news conference. “For the first time, U.S. and North Korean leaders will stand face to face at Panmunjom, a symbol of the division, and shake hands for peace.”
Trump described the planning for the meeting in the most casual of terms. “I was just thinking yesterday, ‘Hey, I'm here, let’s see if we can say hello to Kim Jong Un,’” Trump said at the news conference. “There’s a lot of good feeling.” //
Moon endorsed the meeting with Kim at the outset of his own meeting with Trump here on Sunday afternoon.
A handshake across the border that has separated North and South Korea since the 1953 armistice that ended the Korean War would be an immensely powerful image, he said.
“I believe that picture in itself would represent a historic event, and this will be a significant milestone in the peace process on the Korean peninsula,” Moon said at the outset of a meeting with Trump.
Moon spoke to Trump over dinner Saturday about what he described as Kim’s resolve to denuclearize and spoke positively of the North Korean leader, Moon’s spokesman told local reporters.
https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-korea-dmz-kim-moon-20190630-story.html
The difference between actual Koreans with an actual stake in this, including the President of South Korea and his people, and our cynical blowhard media couldn't be any more out of touch with reality.
timschochet
Footballguy
If he is you can always adjust his age. I’m quite sure your sim game will have that option.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
Except you do it on our terms, not those of the despotic regime...that is of course if you in this for something other than the photo op.
timschochet
Footballguy
ren hoek
Footballguy
Here's the part you omitted:
Moon spoke to Trump over dinner Saturday about what he described as Kim’s resolve to denuclearize and spoke positively of the North Korean leader, Moon’s spokesman told local reporters.
timschochet
Footballguy
ren hoek
Footballguy
It could be that Moon is using flattery and persuasion to achieve a broader goal toward peace. Kim holding onto nukes is certainly understandable given our history with the "Libyan model". So what? What have we got to lose? Your only point appears to be that US/SK/NK should stay stuck in a stalemate forever.
ren hoek
Footballguy
https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1145376723585904640
The US is not a Higher Power. It doesn't have the authority to "legitimize" anybody. It only has obligations to be a moral actor. It often helps dictators commit atrocities. It's bizarre that we've "legitimized" that & saved our outrage for cases like a Korean-led peace process.
The US is not a Higher Power. It doesn't have the authority to "legitimize" anybody. It only has obligations to be a moral actor. It often helps dictators commit atrocities. It's bizarre that we've "legitimized" that & saved our outrage for cases like a Korean-led peace process.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Iran is a pretty interesting comp. One key is that we did not give the Iranians things with nothing in return. Trump has now given Kim 2 propaganda bonanzas plus halted exercises with our ally and what have we gotten in return? Our negotiating strategy has been rejected outright.
HellToupee
Footballguy
badmojo1006
Footballguy
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
Courtesy of @Cheese and CrackersBolton and Tucker Carlson are the ones shaping U.S. foreign policy decisions.
Tucker Carlson justifies KJU's murderous regime: "You've got to be honest about what it means to lead a country, it means killing people. A lot of countries commit atrocities, including our allies."
zoonation
Footballguy
Kim couldn’t get down to that border fast enough. Another free legitimization exercise playing to Trump’s vanity. America gets what in return? Absolutely nothing. Kim is abusing Trump. He is not going to denuke.
It is delusional to think that this achieved any foreign policy objective whatsoever.
It is delusional to think that this achieved any foreign policy objective whatsoever.
ren hoek
Footballguy
Moving to summits and “photo ops” instead of threats of nuclear war is doing something. Supporting an interKorean peace process is doing something. Historic meets with the leaders of a country we’re still technically at war with is doing something. Just because it doesn’t happen in 2 seconds doesn’t mean it’s not worth doing. What have we got to lose? We can always go back to the failed isolation strategy if diplomacy doesn’t work.
It’s not the US’ place to tell another country they can’t have nukes. If the Koreans want to end the war and negotiate on their own terms, let them.
msommer
Footballguy
You conveniently forget that the one threatening nuclear war was Trump - remember fire and fury?
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randall146
Footballguy
Yeah but Kim made a promise to Trump and wrote him beautiful letters.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
ren hoek
Footballguy
Yes, I remember. The feigned outrage over “photo ops” is an extremely small price to pay to avoid nuclear confrontation and I’m glad he’s doing it. He should be encouraged to talk to foreign govts, especially nuclear powers, not badgered for it. Obama ran on this sort of policy in 2008.
ren hoek
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
No that is not my point. I’ve been pretty consistent on how I believe the USA should handle this long before Trump arrived on the scene, and it’s all in this thread if you want to look it up. I think we should accept North Korea as a country with nuclear weapons, and offer to open up trade with them, but at the same time pledge that we will always defend South Korea and Japan and keep our troops there.
We can trade with North Korea but we should insist that we will never be friends with them until they end their human rights violations. And Kim should never be allowed to visit the White House; that’s a disgrace.
timschochet
Footballguy
And this is not true. Despite our flaws we have been, until this President, the leader of the free world and we have a responsibility to the world to remain so.
timschochet
Footballguy
Yes it is.
In the case of North Korea we may have to accept it, but that doesn’t mean we should abandon in general the fight against nuclear proliferation. We created these monstrous weapons and therefore we have a responsibility to protect the rest of the world from them as best we can.
Mario Kart
Footballguy
I recall Obama saying something similar and was lambasted over and over for it. Unfortunately, Trump supporters seem to have a very short memory about things their Dear Leader does.
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
And we had two summits already for what reason? Shouldn’t we already be here?
This will be another rinse and repeat just for show.
zoonation
Footballguy
All of tim’s posts on this page are bang on.
The only thing I would add is that this apparent “diplomacy” trump is engaging in is, like everything trump, devoid of actual substance.
Trump is such an egomaniac that he thinks developing a “friendship” with a murderous dictator is some kind of substitute for real substance foreign policy or diplomacy. The fact that this Apprentice “White House” edition is accepted as normal is a sad indictment of the new normal in America.
Someone wake me up when this dog and pony show returns anything remotely resembling tangible concessions from the most repressive regime on earth.
The only thing I would add is that this apparent “diplomacy” trump is engaging in is, like everything trump, devoid of actual substance.
Trump is such an egomaniac that he thinks developing a “friendship” with a murderous dictator is some kind of substitute for real substance foreign policy or diplomacy. The fact that this Apprentice “White House” edition is accepted as normal is a sad indictment of the new normal in America.
Someone wake me up when this dog and pony show returns anything remotely resembling tangible concessions from the most repressive regime on earth.
Osaurus
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Sammy3469
Footballguy
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