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Josh Freeman - what's his future hold? (1 Viewer)
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Off the top of my head cutler and vick
gump
Footballguy
Schiano hired the coach who gets a lot of the credit for Eli's development.
You can keep railing on Schiano...as you do in every Bucs thread...but the failure here, if there is one, will fall squarely on Freeman's shoulders.
While I don't love either QB, I think Cutler's big arm would do really well with the Bucs' two downfield WRs. Really don't like his bad attitude though and general lack of leadership.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Has Captain designation taken away. I didn't see him coming back anyways. He's a league average QB. And I have zero questions personally that he'll never be any more than that. People that don't watch this guy don't realize he can't throw a timing route to save his life. I don't think this is a talent you teach at 25 years old.
Tampa in a tough position. They couldn't have really dealt him this offseason (w/o a fallback plan -- at boatload of $$ tied up at WR + a star RB). Though dealing him this offseason probably would have net the best return with a lackluster QB class, he's a lame duck QB at 25 years old.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/josh-freeman-captaincy-taken-away-tampa-bay-202140776--nfl.html
Tampa in a tough position. They couldn't have really dealt him this offseason (w/o a fallback plan -- at boatload of $$ tied up at WR + a star RB). Though dealing him this offseason probably would have net the best return with a lackluster QB class, he's a lame duck QB at 25 years old.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/josh-freeman-captaincy-taken-away-tampa-bay-202140776--nfl.html
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TwinTurbo
Footballguy
Why is Freeman considered a below average QB when he puts up numbers similar to Dalton, Eli, and Flacco. It could be a lot worse. It's not like he is Sanchez or Gabbert. And would guys like Palmer or Alex Smith really be an upgrade? Other than getting extremely lucky in the 2014 draft or magically fixing a laundry list of flaws with Glennon this season, I doubt the Bucs find a better option next year.
Tau837
Footballguy
The Bucs are going to waste the talent they brought in on the OLine, WR, and DB...
Here's to hoping they are able to nab a QB in FA next year, but...good luck with that.
The Bucs have been building their team through the draft the last few years and making good economical decisions. This puts them in a great shape to plug remaining holes in FA. They do so. The team looks strong on paper.
Only to...transition to a rookie/2nd year project QB???
Epic fail
Here's to hoping they are able to nab a QB in FA next year, but...good luck with that.
The Bucs have been building their team through the draft the last few years and making good economical decisions. This puts them in a great shape to plug remaining holes in FA. They do so. The team looks strong on paper.
Only to...transition to a rookie/2nd year project QB???
Epic fail
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I have an opinion about Freeman's future, but obviously I could be wrong. Maybe despite his performance to date he's below average and he'll never get better.
But I will never get why they seem hell-bent on sabotaging the guy. By all accounts he's hard-working, a gym rat that give everything he's got. What's the angle on repeatedly telling the starting QB on an up and coming team that you don't want him and think he's dog#### going into the season?
But I will never get why they seem hell-bent on sabotaging the guy. By all accounts he's hard-working, a gym rat that give everything he's got. What's the angle on repeatedly telling the starting QB on an up and coming team that you don't want him and think he's dog#### going into the season?
Just seems to be egotism on the part of Schiano wanting "his guy" and putting that above what's best for the team during the window that they've created for themselves.
For me, the bigger question is: where is Mark Dominik in all of this? He drafted Freeman and has been assembling this team. Granted, he was involved in the Glennon selection as well, but, I just can't see the logic in torpedoing this team that he has been carefully assembling for a few years now...
For me, the bigger question is: where is Mark Dominik in all of this? He drafted Freeman and has been assembling this team. Granted, he was involved in the Glennon selection as well, but, I just can't see the logic in torpedoing this team that he has been carefully assembling for a few years now...
I suppose the weakness in that comparison comes firstly in the difference of not only the league nowadays to Eli's early years (Hardly a huge variation) and the fact that Eli has always played in New York's weather condition compared to Tampa's (Which obviously lends itself to better passing statistics towards the end of the year).
Unless it was a ploy put forward by Freeman, I can't see him even wanting to come back for Schiano. I didn't like the guy when drafted as a future prospect, but for everything the team gives him in one hand, they take away with the other.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Yeah... ignore my own opinion/belief about how the Freeman story will actually turn out. What's the advantage of an entire organization dumping on its starting QB ahead of the season? Especially an organization that's put a decent team together and actually does have an average QB. It makes no sense to me at all. And I agree that if I were Freeman I'd go elsewhere next year regardless of how things played out now.
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Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Reread your own post and listen to how it sounds. Do you think an organization should be content to have a "decent" team and an "average QB". Win a few games each year, tease the fan base and duck out of it December every year? The Bucs have invested heavily in free agency and hit on a stud running back and they want to reap quick rewards on those players while they are still in their prime. Trouble is they happen to be playing in maybe the toughest conference in the NFL.
Freeman's been given all the weapons a QB could ask for. The defense got some high profile additions. Whether it's fair or not, he's going to get the blame if they don't make the playoffs this year. Expectations are set very high in Tampa. People outside of Tampa seem to think they should be happy to just be a competitive team and play their part as another also ran franchise. But they underestimate the pressure to win now. Freeman either has a Joe Flacco type postseason run or he's gone next year. They aren't afraid of starting over if need be with a rookie in next year's draft. They won't continue to waste all their best players prime years waiting for Josh to finally pay dividends.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
If you have an average QB the odds are low you're going to get a better one anytime soon. If top-12 QBs play 12 years on average it means that there's only one coming into the league each year. Especially since losing enough games to draft one next year is hard when you already have an average QB. Teams don't go from average QBs to great QBs most of the time -- they go from stone cold awful QBs to great QBs.
But nevermind that.
Regardless of how good or bad he is ... what's the advantage to actively undermining your guy? Even if you've made up your mind that he can't play and expect to get rid of him after the season why tear him down before Week 1?
The Ravens weren't sold on Flacco last year and didn't make a market offer. But they didn't spend six months acting like he was Rex Grossman either.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Flacco has led his team to a playoff win each year, while Freeman has done nada. For all practical purposes, he is Rex Grossman.
mphtrilogy
Footballguy
Jason Campbell redux
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Career Net Yards/Attempt
Josh Freeman 6.25 (0% coming after age 24)
Jason Campbell 5.86 (100% coming after age 24)
Rex Grossman 5.76 (90% coming after age 24)
Freeman's NY/A should go up a bit as he hits ages 25-27, but he's already been better than both guys you're trying to compare him to ever were.
Josh Freeman 6.25 (0% coming after age 24)
Jason Campbell 5.86 (100% coming after age 24)
Rex Grossman 5.76 (90% coming after age 24)
Freeman's NY/A should go up a bit as he hits ages 25-27, but he's already been better than both guys you're trying to compare him to ever were.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Mr. Irrelevant
IBL Representative
As a Freeman advocate - and owner in a couple of leagues, including SSL - I'm not going to sugarcoat it: The kid looked like a rookie out there yesterday. His accuracy was abysmal. Even the 37-yarder to V-Jax that set up the would-be game-winning FG was a good read but a poor pass.
The good news, if you can call it that, is that the entire team was a trainwreck, so it's not as though the spotlight is going to be solely on Freeman this coming week. But if they drop into an early hole against the Saints next week and get forced into obvious passing situations, I don't think it's hyperbole to suggest it's possible his chance at a breakout season could be over before it ever really starts.
The good news, if you can call it that, is that the entire team was a trainwreck, so it's not as though the spotlight is going to be solely on Freeman this coming week. But if they drop into an early hole against the Saints next week and get forced into obvious passing situations, I don't think it's hyperbole to suggest it's possible his chance at a breakout season could be over before it ever really starts.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
He was pretty good to his outside guys again yesterday 11/21 for 206 and a TD. That's 9.8 yards/attempt. Even without the long VJax play at the end it was a strong 8.5/attempt.
It's the underneath stuff that still isn't working. 4/10 for four yards is a trainwreck.
It's the underneath stuff that still isn't working. 4/10 for four yards is a trainwreck.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
There's no good news to found parsing up attempts into categories to make it look good. He continues to make poor choices and make poor throws. And the Jets defense isn't scaring anybody in this league. Not a good sign for Josh that they get served up a cupcake on week 1. A bye week victory, a team they should have dominated offensively, and they they got nipped by a point in a low scoring game. Right or wrong, all eyes are on Josh. Let's see how handles the pressure.
Mr. Irrelevant
IBL Representative
Yeah, that's what puzzled me the most. He'd hit a couple of intermediate routes right on the button, then go to dump off a screen to Martin and throw a Gabbert-esque duck.
He reminded me a lot of early-years McNabb, to be honest. Which is to say I'm not ready to write him off - McNabb certainly made himself into a very good QB despite never even gaining average touch on the short stuff - but we all know Freeman isn't going to have nearly the leash under Schiano that McNabb had under Reid. He's either going to put this out of his head and turn the ship around starting next week, or it could very well get ugly.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
They really need a Doug Baldwin type inside receiver. 27 attempts to VJax, Mike W and Martin. Four to everyone else on the roster. With the attention the outside guys are getting someone should be killing it short.
I could be forgetting someone, but IMO the TEs and #3/4 WRs there aren't NFL quality.
I could be forgetting someone, but IMO the TEs and #3/4 WRs there aren't NFL quality.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Luke Stocker is owned in some deep dynasty leagues, but I've never believed he was very talented. I agree that they've neglected that area of the roster.
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Grahamburn
Footballguy
He struggled a bit. It was a road game in the NFL against an underrated defense. He led the team down the field for the game winning field goal. Until it wasn't. 
I guess nothing changes. When you lose the QB takes too much blame, and when you win he gets too much credit.
I guess nothing changes. When you lose the QB takes too much blame, and when you win he gets too much credit.
Shanahanigans
Footballguy
As a Freeman owner who has always been bullish on him, this last game got me seriously worried about Freeman. I usually think the Freeman-haters are overeacting, but this last week was horrid. With the Saints and Pats the next two weeks they could be looking at 0-3, and Freeman will be looking at the door this offseason. Granted without the David penalty Freeman and the Bucs win, but last week was as close to a must win for the Bucs as an early season game gets, and Freeman did not deliver.
It's true though that, in today's NFL, you really need 3-4 non-RB passing game targets and the Bucs just don't have anything past their top two WRs. That being said, Freeman doesn't look sharp out there and I think the Bucs' QB situation is going to blow up and cost them big time perhaps as early as mid-season.
Mortimer Ichabod
Footballguy
Josh Freeman looked like he was destined for stardom after 2010...i still can't figure out where it all went wrong.
i didn't watch the game so can't comment on how he looked but stat line wasn't terrible, Jets have easily a top 10 Defense, and it was only 1 game that they should've won. So maybe we can give him a few more games before hitting the panic button. I know he didn't look great at the end of last year but the rest of the season was halfway decent.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Sigh
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Would change the look of all this if true. Any idea how reliable King is?Quez said:
Quez
Footballguy
[SIZE=10.5pt]I would tend to agree, but there has to be something up with Josh. Over the summer he completely blew off his own football camp for kids. Nobody could get a hold of him, and then he showed up an hour after the camp was over. He said he had car trouble & phone problems coincidentally in the same day. Then, the next day he went on the radio sounding pretty incoherent and out of it. Now we find out he missed the team photo, and the HC says he has been late/ missed other things in the past. Say what you want about King, but I doubt he is going to completely fabricate a story like this. I am sure he had to of heard something. When talking about it a few other radio host have said they have heard things as well, but didn’t specifically say Josh and addiction. They were all just kind of eluding to the fact that they have sources and hear things.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]For me as a Bucs fan the bottom line is this isn't the kind of behavior you expect to see from a starting QB. How many team photos have Peyton Manning & Tom Brady missed in their lives? This is Jamarcus Russell crap. [/SIZE]
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
I don't see any credible sources talking about a Josh Freeman "addiction". Addiction to what? Link? Source? innuendo?
That being said, the Bucs locker room is not a happy place right now. Freeman keeps insisting that everyone's on the same page and that they are focused on Saints week. But the beat reporters who cover the team infer a different story from the players body language when asked about the latest Freeman drama. No one is talking, and no one expects anything from anybody. But it's clear that things aren't hunky dory behind closed doors at one buc place.
The general overriding view is coach Schiano is a micromanager with his 'toes on the line' mantra, and Freeman is a carefree, laid back type of guy. Schiano expects high intensity in practice, and Freeman is the type who brings the intensity on gameday. They don't mesh well nor do they seem to trust each other. Just bad karma if you are a Bucs fan. Does remind me a little of the Jamarcus Russell era with the Raiders, and to get a healthy team climate, one or the other of Freeman/Schiano has to go. Freeman has made some embarrasing mistakes and Schiano has been overbearing. Maybe both should go.
That being said, the Bucs locker room is not a happy place right now. Freeman keeps insisting that everyone's on the same page and that they are focused on Saints week. But the beat reporters who cover the team infer a different story from the players body language when asked about the latest Freeman drama. No one is talking, and no one expects anything from anybody. But it's clear that things aren't hunky dory behind closed doors at one buc place.
The general overriding view is coach Schiano is a micromanager with his 'toes on the line' mantra, and Freeman is a carefree, laid back type of guy. Schiano expects high intensity in practice, and Freeman is the type who brings the intensity on gameday. They don't mesh well nor do they seem to trust each other. Just bad karma if you are a Bucs fan. Does remind me a little of the Jamarcus Russell era with the Raiders, and to get a healthy team climate, one or the other of Freeman/Schiano has to go. Freeman has made some embarrasing mistakes and Schiano has been overbearing. Maybe both should go.
Mr. Irrelevant
IBL Representative
It's rare that I'm ever able to look at an NFL team with above-average talent and think, "This thing has 5-11 written all over it."Quez said:
But it does happen. All the signs were there for the Eagles last year if you dug a little bit.
I have a sinking feeling the Bucs could be this year's Eagles.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Freeman can play, Schiano has no offensive edge on anyone with his playbook in the NFL. Regardless Freeman should get nothing but support form the coach until the end of the year and then if he wants Glennon have at it but it feels like he is pushing Freeman out the door.
Timmay
Footballguy
I don't see last years Eagles and this years Bucs on the same page at all.
Eagles were projected to be Super Bowl or bust.
Bucs weren't even predicted to win their division this year. Most people probably picked them behind Saints and Falcons, and I remember seeing a lot of people having Panthers as their sleeper team this year to make the playoffs.
I don't think they had the same expectations, im pretty sure the Bucs would be happy if they ended the year at 8-8. Eagles last year, not so much.
Quez
Footballguy
I am not saying it is credible but here is the interview, http://www.620wdae.com/media/podcast-ron-and-ian-RonandIan/shaun-king-with-ron-and-ian-23702312/
fwiw, King is an NBC employee & has been covering the team for years. Also, 620 WDAE is the Bucs radio station. I'm honestly surprised the Bucs haven't asked them to remove it and sent a letter from their lawyers. If it isn't true King could be in trouble.
Then again, this brings be back to my original point ont he entire matter. If there is smoke there is usually fire. How many of your fellow employees do you recall "oversleeping" and missing a meeting? This isn't normal behavior for an adult. I'm not going to completely blow off the drug accusation even if it was from Shaun King.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
You have them read all wrong. It's been 5 years since they made the playoffs, basically coinciding with the Josh Freeman era. They spent a boatload of money on free agents that last two years, and the expectation was playoffs or bust. The defense let them down last year as they blew 4 games with 4th quarter leads. The team, pundits, and fanbase all believed that it would be hard to unseat the Falcons, but certainly a wildcard berth was possible, and even expected.
Timmay
Footballguy
The hype must of been all local, because I don't remember seeing anything about them.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
It might have been a good sign for Freeman that Brady struggled just as much against the Jets as he did.
But there have to be rumblings about Schiano wanting to start Glennon if this keeps up.
But there have to be rumblings about Schiano wanting to start Glennon if this keeps up.
Premier
Footballguy
I would not be happy as a Bucs fan with 8-8 or worse. That's ridiculous. There's a ton, a TON, of top shelf talent here. Revis, McCoy, Goldson, David, Nicks, Joseph, VJax, Williams, Dougie.....8-8 is a dumpster fire and deserves to get Schiano canned.
