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Evil G

Lamar Miller, 2016, Infinity and beyond

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I didn't get to watch, but listened on the radio. Sounded like he was getting good chunks in the first. Tannehill seemed to be a bit off and that resulted in having to pass more. Is he in on passing downs? You'd think they would try and get him isolated on a backer every once in a while with his speed, a la Sproles and Woodhead (both admittedly shiftier).

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I think it's clear the coaching staff is clueless.

I agree. I felt like I was watching reruns of the last 14 years of my Browns.

3-1 = Not Clueless

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I thought Miller looked good tonight. For a half. Then he didn't really get a chance to touch the ball as the Saints rolled. He was in on a few series, but Tannehill doesn't seem to look at RBs at all on passing plays if it's not designed for them. Thomas failed in a few short yardage attempts in the red zone area too, but the blocking wasn't there. Got me double digits points tonight, more than I expected to be honest. I'm thinking he's trending up.

Kinda ironic that Miami sits there watching Sproles run loose all over the place and the light never comes on for Miami to use Miller in space.

this same coaching staff was running daniel thomas out there on third downs over reggie bush last year....their current GM (who just got extended mind you) traded up to take thomas

Couldn't remember how this trade happened, but here's an interesting write-up on it.

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I think it's clear the coaching staff is clueless.

I agree. I felt like I was watching reruns of the last 14 years of my Browns.

3-1 = Not Clueless

:goodposting:

Not sure why everyone is so surprised here. Passing team + weak o-line + RBBC isn't generally seen as a stud RB recipe. This was all obvious leading up to the season. And at 3-1, it ain't broken -- and there's no need to fix anything.

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I think it's clear the coaching staff is clueless.

I agree. I felt like I was watching reruns of the last 14 years of my Browns.

3-1 = Not Clueless

:goodposting:

Not sure why everyone is so surprised here. Passing team + weak o-line + RBBC isn't generally seen as a stud RB recipe. This was all obvious leading up to the season. And at 3-1, it ain't broken -- and there's no need to fix anything.

After that waxing there is a lot to fix.

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I think it's clear the coaching staff is clueless.

I agree. I felt like I was watching reruns of the last 14 years of my Browns.

3-1 = Not Clueless

:goodposting:

Not sure why everyone is so surprised here. Passing team + weak o-line + RBBC isn't generally seen as a stud RB recipe. This was all obvious leading up to the season. And at 3-1, it ain't broken -- and there's no need to fix anything.

Agreed...although as a Fins fan I do cringe every time Daniel Thomas comes into the game. Pretty useless player. From a fantasy perspective, I still feel that there is a window to trade for Miller while there is still the perception (and reality) of a RBBC. I dont think that will last. Thomas is garbage.

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I think it's clear the coaching staff is clueless.

I agree. I felt like I was watching reruns of the last 14 years of my Browns.

3-1 = Not Clueless

:goodposting:

Not sure why everyone is so surprised here. Passing team + weak o-line + RBBC isn't generally seen as a stud RB recipe. This was all obvious leading up to the season. And at 3-1, it ain't broken -- and there's no need to fix anything.

The ultimate goal is to go toe to toe with the best in the NFL and win. Yeah, they're 3-1, but they were exposed.

There's plenty of criticism to be thrown around when the Dolphins were ripping off chunks of yards with Miller in the first half, and then give him one touch (the first play of the 2nd half) the rest of the game. That's inexcusable.

The goal is to score, and it seems like it was pretty clear to most people watching this game that Miller being on the field gave the Dolphins the best chance to do that.

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Bye weeks force Miller into my lineup vs. Baltimore, so his performance was encouraging. Thomas sucks terribly, I can't believe he is the "short yardage specialist" when he takes the goalline carry and tiptoes forward before collapsing in the fetal position.

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Look, I don't have a dog in this fight. I agree that Thomas sucks. But I'm guessing that the coaching staff trusts him to pick up the blitz, and in a passing offense that's important. It also seems likely to me that they see Miller as a speedy COP type guy, better used to provide some explosion on a limited number of touches as opposed to running him 20 times / game. That's certainly open to interpretation, but as I said, it seems likely to me for now.

I also think that it's no surprise at all that a young overachieving team under the national lights for the first time got blown out by one of the best teams in the NFL on the road. IMO there's nothing clueless or inexcusable about that. The arrow on the Dolphins is clearly pointing up IMO, so what if they weren't ready to hang with the Saints in NO yet? Means nothing.

The coaching staff has done a great job IMO. They're 3-1, and have integrated a bunch of new pieces pretty seamlessly. Tannehill looks great, albeit still raw and inexperienced. But IMO if he continues to develop, he looks to have franchise QB potential. He's clearly the best offensive player on this team moving forward, and the guy to build around and maximize. Not Lamar Miller, sorry.

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saints have a bad rush defense. shark move was to take advantage of this.

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Look, I don't have a dog in this fight. I agree that Thomas sucks. But I'm guessing that the coaching staff trusts him to pick up the blitz, and in a passing offense that's important. It also seems likely to me that they see Miller as a speedy COP type guy, better used to provide some explosion on a limited number of touches as opposed to running him 20 times / game. That's certainly open to interpretation, but as I said, it seems likely to me for now.

I also think that it's no surprise at all that a young overachieving team under the national lights for the first time got blown out by one of the best teams in the NFL on the road. IMO there's nothing clueless or inexcusable about that. The arrow on the Dolphins is clearly pointing up IMO, so what if they weren't ready to hang with the Saints in NO yet? Means nothing.

The coaching staff has done a great job IMO. They're 3-1, and have integrated a bunch of new pieces pretty seamlessly. Tannehill looks great, albeit still raw and inexperienced. But IMO if he continues to develop, he looks to have franchise QB potential. He's clearly the best offensive player on this team moving forward, and the guy to build around and maximize. Not Lamar Miller, sorry.

A lot of good points.

But let's just talk about last nights game and how this coaching staff showed some flaws.

Third and litterally 2 inches on your opening drive on the road...hostile enviroment. You have Lamar Miller and Ryan Tannehill exposing how bad the Saints run defense is. And it is bad.

You trot in Daniel Thomas who is a sack of #### and not a "short yardage" specialist in the least bit and run a zone block pitch...when all they had to do is have Tannehill lean...I mean lean into Pouncy with...DT pushing his back forward to get 2 inches.

It was a huge turning point......and that early in the game you must answer The Saints.....instead they got cute on the road no less.

Fail.

Then on defense.....3rd and 20 you rush 3 and let Darren Sproles loose on a HB Screen? You don't have at least one spy on him? After he has carved you up already?

Fail.

Those two critical moments swung this entire game out of control.

Then add in two awful I mean downright nasty Tannehill turnovers and that was all she wrote. Both those turnovers are squarely on him. And showed his greeness yet still at the QB position.

Now I am the biggest Dolphin homer on these boards...I love Tannehill. I am very pumped about his future. But he needs to get some things in order here.

1. Stop zoning in on your first or second read only downfield. Learn how to use your safety valve ala dump off to Miller or Clay...they were open multiple times and those guys, especially Miller cause damage (chunk yardage) in space. Get your playmaker the ball when you other playmakers are covered.....get that internal clock working and feel the pressure better.....he must get this going...now.

2. The coaching staff needs to now recognize what they have with Lamar Miller. He was tearing apart that defense in the first half. In the second half...opening drive....he gets another 5 yards. 2 and 5 and what to they do? Drop back to pass again. Stop it. They needed to run, run and run some more last night. When your playing a fast break offense like Brees, or Peyton or Stafford....you must run the ball till they prove they can stop it. The game was still very close to start the second half.....they blew it.

They forced the passing game too often and it cost them a chance to keep this game close and possibly earn a tough road win.

The coaching staff did not do a good job last night at all. And up to this point they have been doing a very solid job. But this was a team loss...top to bottom.

And stop insisting on getting Daniel Thomas snaps. He stinks. He hurts the team more than helps. He should be in once every 3 or 4 drives...not every other.

Miller can handle 20 total touches a game. He did at UM and he can do it now.

They have 3 blazing playmakers.

1. Tannehill (all starts with him)

2. Mike Wallace (he flat out dropped a perfect pass on a streak early in the first half)

3. Lamar Miller (the guy can take it to the house any given play)

Those are your big time playmakers for the Dolphins.

Then you have excellent role players in

Hartline

Clay

Gibson

Where does Daniel Thomas fit in here?

He doesn't. And the sooner this staff get's that the better this team will be going forward.

And our defense for the most part has been excellent. They missed Wake last night...but the offense put them in to many bad situations with turnovers, 3 and outs etc.

On to Baltimore and Buffalo......I say they will be 5-1 after those two games and right in the thick of the AFC East crown.

Edited by Todem

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Dont forget about failing to run up to the line and run a dive play before that questionable replay. Any coach in the league at this point that doesnt have an emergency signal to snap a play off as soon as the whistle blows after a first down on a sketchy call should be fired and banned from any team sport for life.

Edited by mbuehner

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I think Miller looked good last night, they just need to give him the ball a little more. Hopefully the Dolphins realize this soon and his touches go up. If he gets a few more touches I think he is a viable #2 RB.

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Look, I don't have a dog in this fight. I agree that Thomas sucks. But I'm guessing that the coaching staff trusts him to pick up the blitz, and in a passing offense that's important. It also seems likely to me that they see Miller as a speedy COP type guy, better used to provide some explosion on a limited number of touches as opposed to running him 20 times / game. That's certainly open to interpretation, but as I said, it seems likely to me for now.

I also think that it's no surprise at all that a young overachieving team under the national lights for the first time got blown out by one of the best teams in the NFL on the road. IMO there's nothing clueless or inexcusable about that. The arrow on the Dolphins is clearly pointing up IMO, so what if they weren't ready to hang with the Saints in NO yet? Means nothing.

The coaching staff has done a great job IMO. They're 3-1, and have integrated a bunch of new pieces pretty seamlessly. Tannehill looks great, albeit still raw and inexperienced. But IMO if he continues to develop, he looks to have franchise QB potential. He's clearly the best offensive player on this team moving forward, and the guy to build around and maximize. Not Lamar Miller, sorry.

Right, but wasn't it Thomas who missed some assignments and got their best offensive player put on his back teh last couple of weeks?

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The offense is evolving each week. Miller is going to get more and more involved. The last two weeks when given the opportunity is has delievered. The coaching staff though seems to not want to commit to the run....it is mindboggling at times.

They were throughly outplayed vs Atlanta too. Atlanta blew that game......and Tannehill had a fantastic last drive no doubt. But Philbin has not been exactly a genius.

Clay and Miller are emerging has legit playmakers while Wallace is hot and cold. Gibson is a good target and Hartline is so week to week.

If the Dolphins can commit to getting a legit running attack going.....especially when they are running the ball well early and stick to it...the rest of the field will open up far easier for Wallace over the top and Clay down the seam.

I am encouraged so far......but we need more balance to be successful long term this year.

Edited by Todem

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I think it's a league wide issue not just the dolphins. With the exception if a few teams like Minnesota and Houston, it's a passing league now. I'll be interested to see how next years fantasy draft shakes out. I think RBS were drafted too early as too often in the first 2 kinds this year. I was guilty of this myself. I took miller at 2.12 and passed up on some stud wrs that would have really helped my team much more.

So many RBS busted this year. Outside of ap, Charles, McCoy, forte and lynch...it's a crapshoot what you'll get week to week. Or fantasy purposes:

Miller - decent

Wilson - disaster

Trich - bust

McFadden - decent/injured

Gore - decent

Mjd - bust

Spiller - bust

Martin - decent to bust

Foster - decent to bust

Ridley - bust

Sjax - bust/injured

CJ?k - decent

Bush - awesome but already missing games.

D. Murray - decent.

I mean...the Rb position was a freaking field of land mines this year.

1) they get injured too frequently

2) the nfl is changing more rapidly each year into a passing league.

3) stud wrs are way more consistent.

The 1st place team in one of my leagues went Charles, dez, arodg.

His rb2 is Ben Tate. He starts a wr or Vernon Davis in his flex each week.

My team is I 2nd place and after ap I have miller and then Andre Ellington lol.

Most of the teams who went Rb heavy are the bottom feeders.

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Look, I don't have a dog in this fight. I agree that Thomas sucks. But I'm guessing that the coaching staff trusts him to pick up the blitz, and in a passing offense that's important. It also seems likely to me that they see Miller as a speedy COP type guy, better used to provide some explosion on a limited number of touches as opposed to running him 20 times / game. That's certainly open to interpretation, but as I said, it seems likely to me for now.

I also think that it's no surprise at all that a young overachieving team under the national lights for the first time got blown out by one of the best teams in the NFL on the road. IMO there's nothing clueless or inexcusable about that. The arrow on the Dolphins is clearly pointing up IMO, so what if they weren't ready to hang with the Saints in NO yet? Means nothing.

The coaching staff has done a great job IMO. They're 3-1, and have integrated a bunch of new pieces pretty seamlessly. Tannehill looks great, albeit still raw and inexperienced. But IMO if he continues to develop, he looks to have franchise QB potential. He's clearly the best offensive player on this team moving forward, and the guy to build around and maximize. Not Lamar Miller, sorry.

A lot of good points.

But let's just talk about last nights game and how this coaching staff showed some flaws.

Third and litterally 2 inches on your opening drive on the road...hostile enviroment. You have Lamar Miller and Ryan Tannehill exposing how bad the Saints run defense is. And it is bad.

You trot in Daniel Thomas who is a sack of #### and not a "short yardage" specialist in the least bit and run a zone block pitch...when all they had to do is have Tannehill lean...I mean lean into Pouncy with...DT pushing his back forward to get 2 inches.

It was a huge turning point......and that early in the game you must answer The Saints.....instead they got cute on the road no less.

Fail.

Then on defense.....3rd and 20 you rush 3 and let Darren Sproles loose on a HB Screen? You don't have at least one spy on him? After he has carved you up already?

Fail.

Those two critical moments swung this entire game out of control.

Then add in two awful I mean downright nasty Tannehill turnovers and that was all she wrote. Both those turnovers are squarely on him. And showed his greeness yet still at the QB position.

Now I am the biggest Dolphin homer on these boards...I love Tannehill. I am very pumped about his future. But he needs to get some things in order here.

1. Stop zoning in on your first or second read only downfield. Learn how to use your safety valve ala dump off to Miller or Clay...they were open multiple times and those guys, especially Miller cause damage (chunk yardage) in space. Get your playmaker the ball when you other playmakers are covered.....get that internal clock working and feel the pressure better.....he must get this going...now.

2. The coaching staff needs to now recognize what they have with Lamar Miller. He was tearing apart that defense in the first half. In the second half...opening drive....he gets another 5 yards. 2 and 5 and what to they do? Drop back to pass again. Stop it. They needed to run, run and run some more last night. When your playing a fast break offense like Brees, or Peyton or Stafford....you must run the ball till they prove they can stop it. The game was still very close to start the second half.....they blew it.

They forced the passing game too often and it cost them a chance to keep this game close and possibly earn a tough road win.

The coaching staff did not do a good job last night at all. And up to this point they have been doing a very solid job. But this was a team loss...top to bottom.

And stop insisting on getting Daniel Thomas snaps. He stinks. He hurts the team more than helps. He should be in once every 3 or 4 drives...not every other.

Miller can handle 20 total touches a game. He did at UM and he can do it now.

They have 3 blazing playmakers.

1. Tannehill (all starts with him)

2. Mike Wallace (he flat out dropped a perfect pass on a streak early in the first half)

3. Lamar Miller (the guy can take it to the house any given play)

Those are your big time playmakers for the Dolphins.

Then you have excellent role players in

Hartline

Clay

Gibson

Where does Daniel Thomas fit in here?

He doesn't. And the sooner this staff get's that the better this team will be going forward.

And our defense for the most part has been excellent. They missed Wake last night...but the offense put them in to many bad situations with turnovers, 3 and outs etc.

On to Baltimore and Buffalo......I say they will be 5-1 after those two games and right in the thick of the AFC East crown.

Good points, wholeheartedly agree with pretty much everything here. I was telling a friend last night that I would rather Thigpen check in than Thomas right before he ripped off his 50 yard catch. Coming into the season I knew Thomas was a bum, his play through the first 4 weeks has proved it. I just don't get what the coaching staff sees in him to keep throwing him out there, he shouldn't get more than 5 snaps a game when his ceiling on any given run is about 7 or 8 yards.

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thanks for the news flash. this thread is for the Miller train. Get on or get out of the way. :welcome:

How many wins has that Miller train netted you thus far? :lmao:

4-0 and 3-1, thanks for asking :thanks:

but who cares what my record is. We're talking about Lamar Miller and his fantasy outlook.

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His fantasy outlook is only going up each and every week.

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I think it's clear the coaching staff is clueless.

I agree. I felt like I was watching reruns of the last 14 years of my Browns.

3-1 = Not Clueless

:goodposting:

Not sure why everyone is so surprised here. Passing team + weak o-line + RBBC isn't generally seen as a stud RB recipe. This was all obvious leading up to the season. And at 3-1, it ain't broken -- and there's no need to fix anything.

It's not a recipe for 3-1 either. So you'd think an obvious flaw like a weak o-line would be addressed by the powers that be.

As for the rest of it, being a passing team doesn't mean you can't have a stud RB...if he's getting the lion's share of the touches and gets utilized in the passing game. That's the heartburn for Miller owners...why isn't he being more utilized in the short passing and screens game?

And at the same time I don't buy that Miami is a purpose built passing team. Sometimes things just kinda trend a certain way by accident and reaction rather than planning. I don't read the drafting of Tannehill or even the signing of Wallace as some commitment to turn Miami into New Orleans East anymore than did drafting of Russell Wilson and the acquisition of Percy Harvin. Good QB's and WR's are needed even on running teams because no team wants to be one dimensional. Every team wants a franchise QB even if they don't plan on throwing 40 times a game.

And there was nothing indicating the team intended to be a RBBC by design. You only started hearing that as a possibility right before the season started and even then it was more in the context of Miller not having distanced himself from Thomas rather than some master plan by the coaching staff.

So when things just kinda end up a certain way, they can also just kinda end up the other way as things change. Getting your ### handed to you by the Saints and the manner in which they did it should be a catalyst for some change. 3-1 isn't 4-0. So there's still some incentive for the Miami brain trust to "fix" some things.

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His fantasy outlook is only going up each and every week.

Eh? Seems fairly consistent to me. Passing team, RBBC, limited use as a receiver. 10 - 15 touches / week with an occasional TD -- decent enough flex / bye week RB but his ceiling is capped by the situation and his usage. The pattern seems fairly well stablished after four weeks to me.

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His fantasy outlook is only going up each and every week.

Eh? Seems fairly consistent to me. Passing team, RBBC, limited use as a receiver. 10 - 15 touches / week with an occasional TD -- decent enough flex / bye week RB but his ceiling is capped by the situation and his usage. The pattern seems fairly well stablished after four weeks to me.

DT keeps getting worse with his touches.....they will start involving Lamar Miller more and more each week.

If they don't...shame on them.

The situation can change....and that is what I am saying....it will change and change soon. DT is starting to play himself out of the lineup. He was horrid last night and was also a dud the week before.

Matter of time now.

Edited by Todem

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His fantasy outlook is only going up each and every week.

Eh? Seems fairly consistent to me. Passing team, RBBC, limited use as a receiver. 10 - 15 touches / week with an occasional TD -- decent enough flex / bye week RB but his ceiling is capped by the situation and his usage. The pattern seems fairly well stablished after four weeks to me.

I view it as looking up, but only because in watching the games, Miller is confirming for me that he is a far better back than Thomas. The idea that talent typically wins out makes me feel like there is room to go up here. While the usage to this point, and the numbers, aren't trending up in any significant way... the talent divide continues to become more and more apparent. I'm fine with Miller as my RB3 w/ upside, just like he should have been drafted.

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His fantasy outlook is only going up each and every week.

Eh? Seems fairly consistent to me. Passing team, RBBC, limited use as a receiver. 10 - 15 touches / week with an occasional TD -- decent enough flex / bye week RB but his ceiling is capped by the situation and his usage. The pattern seems fairly well stablished after four weeks to me.

After 4 weeks, the pattern seems "fairly well established"? Miller has been playing more snaps the past two games and more passing downs.

This seems like a short-sighted comment after 4 games. I don't own Miller and I agreed that the hype on him was out of control. However, after having seen the past two games, I think his role will continue to grow for a team that needs him to be a play-maker.

To write this situation off after 4 weeks would be a mistake IMO.

Obviously, we are probably going to agree to disagree on this one.

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I think it's clear the coaching staff is clueless.

I agree. I felt like I was watching reruns of the last 14 years of my Browns.

3-1 = Not Clueless
:goodposting:

Not sure why everyone is so surprised here. Passing team + weak o-line + RBBC isn't generally seen as a stud RB recipe. This was all obvious leading up to the season. And at 3-1, it ain't broken -- and there's no need to fix anything.

It's not a recipe for 3-1 either. So you'd think an obvious flaw like a weak o-line would be addressed by the powers that be.

As for the rest of it, being a passing team doesn't mean you can't have a stud RB...if he's getting the lion's share of the touches and gets utilized in the passing game. That's the heartburn for Miller owners...why isn't he being more utilized in the short passing and screens game?

And at the same time I don't buy that Miami is a purpose built passing team. Sometimes things just kinda trend a certain way by accident and reaction rather than planning. I don't read the drafting of Tannehill or even the signing of Wallace as some commitment to turn Miami into New Orleans East anymore than did drafting of Russell Wilson and the acquisition of Percy Harvin. Good QB's and WR's are needed even on running teams because no team wants to be one dimensional. Every team wants a franchise QB even if they don't plan on throwing 40 times a game.

And there was nothing indicating the team intended to be a RBBC by

design. You only started hearing that as a possibility right before the season started and even then it was more in the context of Miller not having distanced himself from Thomas rather than some master plan by the coaching staff.

So when things just kinda end up a certain way, they can also just kinda end up the other way as things change. Getting your ### handed to you by the Saints and the manner in which they did it should be a catalyst for some change. 3-1 isn't 4-0. So there's still some incentive for the Miami brain trust to "fix" some things.

Pretty sure hiring an offensive minded coach from the GB tree, dishing out tens of millions to various receivers and letting your best RB walk this offseason, and the run - pass ratio through the first four weeks actually do indicate a pretty deliberate move toward a pass first offense.

Also the coaches pretty much came right out and said Miller / Thomas would be sharing right before the season started. Not to mention Thomas had priority over Miller last year behind Bush.

And no doubt a true stud RB can put up great FF numbers in a passing offense. Too bad the Dolphins have only Lamar Miller and Daniel Thomas. They'll probably draft their long term guy in the first few rounds next year.

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His fantasy outlook is only going up each and every week.

Eh? Seems fairly consistent to me. Passing team, RBBC, limited use as a receiver. 10 - 15 touches / week with an occasional TD -- decent enough flex / bye week RB but his ceiling is capped by the situation and his usage. The pattern seems fairly well stablished after four weeks to me.

I view it as looking up, but only because in watching the games, Miller is confirming for me that he is a far better back than Thomas. The idea that talent typically wins out makes me feel like there is room to go up here. While the usage to this point, and the numbers, aren't trending up in any significant way... the talent divide continues to become more and more apparent. I'm fine with Miller as my RB3 w/ upside, just like he should have been drafted.

It's been obvious for > two years now what Daniel Thomas is and isn't. It's not like the coaching staff is sitting in the film room right now looking at each other with the light coming on saying "hey, wait a minute, Thomas actually kind of sucks."

Thomas isn't getting work because of what he can do; he's getting work based on what Lamar Miller can't do. Miller is a complementary speed guy -- he has no power so he can't sustain a rushing offense by himself. Sure, he's fast. So was Tatum Bell -- doesn't mean he should be getting 20+ touches a game.

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Look, I don't have a dog in this fight. I agree that Thomas sucks. But I'm guessing that the coaching staff trusts him to pick up the blitz, and in a passing offense that's important. It also seems likely to me that they see Miller as a speedy COP type guy, better used to provide some explosion on a limited number of touches as opposed to running him 20 times / game. That's certainly open to interpretation, but as I said, it seems likely to me for now.

I also think that it's no surprise at all that a young overachieving team under the national lights for the first time got blown out by one of the best teams in the NFL on the road. IMO there's nothing clueless or inexcusable about that. The arrow on the Dolphins is clearly pointing up IMO, so what if they weren't ready to hang with the Saints in NO yet? Means nothing.

The coaching staff has done a great job IMO. They're 3-1, and have integrated a bunch of new pieces pretty seamlessly. Tannehill looks great, albeit still raw and inexperienced. But IMO if he continues to develop, he looks to have franchise QB potential. He's clearly the best offensive player on this team moving forward, and the guy to build around and maximize. Not Lamar Miller, sorry.

Miller is getting the majority of the RB touches right now. He has 43 rushes and 9 targets to Thomas's 25 and 4.

So what is he the change of pace from? You can't be the deviation from the norm and also be the norm all at the same time. I think you are giving the Miami staff a bit too much credit in assuming that this 3-1 start is all some perfectly orchestrated, by-design master plan. So it's very possible they are a very weak 3-1 that is being exposed now.

And, again, Tannehill can be a franchise QB and not prevent Miller from being a stud too. Considering that Miller was being eyed as a RB2 candidate by most, it isn't like there was some unrealistic expectation that Miami was going to roll back the clock 50 years and run the i-bone or triple wing or something. But he was expected to see more than 9-11 combined touches a game.

But he may be on the verge of trending that way. Tannehill looked overmatched last night and the passing game surely didn't help keep Brees and Co. off the field. It isn't a stretch to think the staff may see some additional focus on the running game and screen game as a means to settle Tannehill down and limit turnovers.

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His fantasy outlook is only going up each and every week.

Eh? Seems fairly consistent to me. Passing team, RBBC, limited use as a receiver. 10 - 15 touches / week with an occasional TD -- decent enough flex / bye week RB but his ceiling is capped by the situation and his usage. The pattern seems fairly well stablished after four weeks to me.

I view it as looking up, but only because in watching the games, Miller is confirming for me that he is a far better back than Thomas. The idea that talent typically wins out makes me feel like there is room to go up here. While the usage to this point, and the numbers, aren't trending up in any significant way... the talent divide continues to become more and more apparent. I'm fine with Miller as my RB3 w/ upside, just like he should have been drafted.

It's been obvious for > two years now what Daniel Thomas is and isn't. It's not like the coaching staff is sitting in the film room right now looking at each other with the light coming on saying "hey, wait a minute, Thomas actually kind of sucks."

Thomas isn't getting work because of what he can do; he's getting work based on what Lamar Miller can't do. Miller is a complementary speed guy -- he has no power so he can't sustain a rushing offense by himself. Sure, he's fast. So was Tatum Bell -- doesn't mean he should be getting 20+ touches a game.

Did you watch last game? If anything Thomas proved that he brings nothing to the table. Look at the first drive, Miller has 4 carries for 39 yards and then Thomas comes in on a 3rd and 1 and kills the drive. At this point in the season both players have the same number of TDs, all off goal line carries. Thomas' week 3 TD came immediately after a 50yd Miller run when he was gassed.

The point we are trying to make is: If Thomas's only role is the short yardage back and he continues to prove that he is increasingly incapable of performing that job, Miller's job will only expand.

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No, Miller's role isn't too likely to expand. But hey, no one in here is going to see that -- he'll continue to be an underutilized stud RB just waiting for the coaching staff to just figure things out.

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I think it's clear the coaching staff is clueless.

I agree. I felt like I was watching reruns of the last 14 years of my Browns.

3-1 = Not Clueless
:goodposting:

Not sure why everyone is so surprised here. Passing team + weak o-line + RBBC isn't generally seen as a stud RB recipe. This was all obvious leading up to the season. And at 3-1, it ain't broken -- and there's no need to fix anything.

It's not a recipe for 3-1 either. So you'd think an obvious flaw like a weak o-line would be addressed by the powers that be.

As for the rest of it, being a passing team doesn't mean you can't have a stud RB...if he's getting the lion's share of the touches and gets utilized in the passing game. That's the heartburn for Miller owners...why isn't he being more utilized in the short passing and screens game?

And at the same time I don't buy that Miami is a purpose built passing team. Sometimes things just kinda trend a certain way by accident and reaction rather than planning. I don't read the drafting of Tannehill or even the signing of Wallace as some commitment to turn Miami into New Orleans East anymore than did drafting of Russell Wilson and the acquisition of Percy Harvin. Good QB's and WR's are needed even on running teams because no team wants to be one dimensional. Every team wants a franchise QB even if they don't plan on throwing 40 times a game.

And there was nothing indicating the team intended to be a RBBC by

design. You only started hearing that as a possibility right before the season started and even then it was more in the context of Miller not having distanced himself from Thomas rather than some master plan by the coaching staff.

So when things just kinda end up a certain way, they can also just kinda end up the other way as things change. Getting your ### handed to you by the Saints and the manner in which they did it should be a catalyst for some change. 3-1 isn't 4-0. So there's still some incentive for the Miami brain trust to "fix" some things.

Pretty sure hiring an offensive minded coach from the GB tree, dishing out tens of millions to various receivers and letting your best RB walk this offseason, and the run - pass ratio through the first four weeks actually do indicate a pretty deliberate move toward a pass first offense.

Also the coaches pretty much came right out and said Miller / Thomas would be sharing right before the season started. Not to mention Thomas had priority over Miller last year behind Bush.

And no doubt a true stud RB can put up great FF numbers in a passing offense. Too bad the Dolphins have only Lamar Miller and Daniel Thomas. They'll probably draft their long term guy in the first few rounds next year.

They let one of the best RB-as-WR RB's walk as a sign of their commitment to Tannehill as the next Dan Marino?

What was Seattle trying to do when they signed Harvin?

Adding better players is an attempt to get better. Sometimes it's just that simple. And that's all we really know for sure.

Everything you argue is circular. Miller isn't good because the situation isn't there. Yet the situation isn't there because Miller isn't good.

Yes, they did indicate both RB's would get some touches. But that doesn't prove your point. Was it by design or by "that's how it turned out"? Did Joique Bell start in week 3 by design or by necessity?

Your assertion that this is a purpose built passing team, which you keep repeating as if doing so will make it seem credible, isn't supported if Miller simply failed to separate himself from Thomas. They might have intended to have a strong running game but Miller simply underwhelmed and struggled early. But that isn't at all the same thing as saying that Miami is a passing team by design and intended to use a RBBC all along.

And why is it that a passing team means RBBC in your mind anyway? The two don't have to follow. A passing team can be a bell cow team if they have a RB of that skillset. But yet you keep making the opposite arguement: that Miller won't be a bellcow because they are a passing team.

If you want to say Miller won't be getting 15+ touches because he isn't that good and thus will never earn them, that's fine. But just call your shot and take your credit or crow as it may turn out. Trying to bolster that assertion by throwing in this "Mmiami is a passing team" and "Miami is a RBBC scheme" arguments just aren't holding water.

The consequence of all this is that for projecting into the future, if the Miller/Thomas split is in flux, Miller could still have upside. But if the situation is static, as in Miami is committed to not running and splitting the RB touches, that would cap his upside. I, obviously, am of the former opinion.

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Might want to read the whole thread, guy. I've been pretty vocal about both Miller AND the situation sucking (relative to the general expectations anyway) since day one. Actually since he came out and people were wasting rookie mid-1sts on a 4th round speed committee guy on a weak running team.

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I don't know WTH is going on in this thread anymore, but one thing above all else seems obvious. Miller is vastly better than Thomas. The stats clearly suggest that and so does anyone who watches the games eyes.

Miller, 43 carries, 196 yds, 4.6 avg, 2 TDs

Thomas, 25 carries, 70 yds, 2.8 avg, 2 TDs

Common sense would tell you that eventually Mia leadership also puts this blatantly obvious connection together, but they haven't yet so maybe the never will.

To act as though there is no reason at all to see potential for Miller getting more touches is just plane silly. That doesn't mean it will happen. It sure appears like it should though.

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I don't know WTH is going on in this thread anymore, but one thing above all else seems obvious. Miller is vastly better than Thomas. The stats clearly suggest that and so does anyone who watches the games eyes.

Miller, 43 carries, 196 yds, 4.6 avg, 2 TDs

Thomas, 25 carries, 70 yds, 2.8 avg, 2 TDs

Common sense would tell you that eventually Mia leadership also puts this blatantly obvious connection together, but they haven't yet so maybe the never will.

To act as though there is no reason at all to see potential for Miller getting more touches is just plane silly. That doesn't mean it will happen. It sure appears like it should though.

Again, I'm pretty sure that everyone on the entire planet who has eyes knows that Lamar Miller is a more dynamic runner than is Daniel Thomas, and that includes the Dolphins' coaching staff, who BTW aren't "clueless."

Ronnie Hillman is more dynamic than Knowshon Moreno too. And Donald Brown looked more dynamic Sunday than Trent Richardson. Mewelde Moore was friggin awesome too, and Tatum Bell had a high YPC. Guess what? Guys that go down on first contact -- every effin time -- are not going to see more than the 10-15 touches that Lamar Miller is currently getting. And guess what else? the guy who is the most reliable blocker usually plays on passing downs.

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LOL

Asked if he believed Lamar Miller was "distancing himself" from Daniel Thomas, Dolphins OC Mike Sherman said "I don't get that (sense)," and reiterated he wants to continue using both backs.

:wall:

I can't think of any possible competitive advantage to stating the status quo will be maintained... they are going to stick with alternating series approach for now it would appear

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I don't know WTH is going on in this thread anymore, but one thing above all else seems obvious. Miller is vastly better than Thomas. The stats clearly suggest that and so does anyone who watches the games eyes.

Miller, 43 carries, 196 yds, 4.6 avg, 2 TDs

Thomas, 25 carries, 70 yds, 2.8 avg, 2 TDs

Common sense would tell you that eventually Mia leadership also puts this blatantly obvious connection together, but they haven't yet so maybe the never will.

To act as though there is no reason at all to see potential for Miller getting more touches is just plane silly. That doesn't mean it will happen. It sure appears like it should though.

Again, I'm pretty sure that everyone on the entire planet who has eyes knows that Lamar Miller is a more dynamic runner than is Daniel Thomas, and that includes the Dolphins' coaching staff, who BTW aren't "clueless."

Ronnie Hillman is more dynamic than Knowshon Moreno too. And Donald Brown looked more dynamic Sunday than Trent Richardson. Mewelde Moore was friggin awesome too, and Tatum Bell had a high YPC. Guess what? Guys that go down on first contact -- every effin time -- are not going to see more than the 10-15 touches that Lamar Miller is currently getting. And guess what else? the guy who is the most reliable blocker usually plays on passing downs.

Well, I have definitely been noticing Miller playing more passing downs the last two weeks. That could be attributed to an improvement on his part or the fact that DThomas has had some blunders in pass protection. Either one could lead to some more opportunities in the coming weeks.

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LOL. One of you Miller owners should just drive down to Miami, grab Joe Philbin's glasses, and clean those mfers -- it's just that simple.

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LOL. One of you Miller owners should just drive down to Miami, grab Joe Philbin's glasses, and clean those mfers -- it's just that simple.

Hell, if someone did that, he might end up playing Thigpen.

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I sold Miller last night in a huge package deal for Martin. I could have moved Leveon Bell instead of Miller in the deal, and paid less in other picks/players, but I just didn't want to deal with Miller anymore. At least I know Bell has a startable floor because of the touches.

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Yeah, I would feel okay about starting him on a regular basis if I knew he was a good bet for 15+ touches - he has looked good.

I'm not counting on them to drastically change the split between Miller and Thomas dramatically unless Miller starts looking absurdly good, Dolphins lose more games, or Thomas gets hurt. However, Miller definitely seemed to be much more involved before the game got out of hand the other night though.

Don't get me wrong, I think Miller looks way better and have him in 2 of my 3 leagues, but I don't really expect coaches to change things as long as they are winning - seems like NFL coaches tend to be conservative by nature about that stuff. Hopefully the loss combined with how good Miller looked in the 1st half makes them rethink things some.

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Might want to read the whole thread, guy. I've been pretty vocal about both Miller AND the situation sucking (relative to the general expectations anyway) since day one. Actually since he came out and people were wasting rookie mid-1sts on a 4th round speed committee guy on a weak running team.

lol. So are you implying that instead of taking Miller, they would have been better off taking Alshon Jeffrey, Stephen Hill, David Wilson, Coby Fleener, or Michael Floyd? You are completely out to lunch if you feel that anyone who took Lamar Miller in the second half of the first round last year made a mistake. Even if he remains a COP back forever, he's already done more, and has better upside, than most late first round rookie draft picks at this stage in his career.

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Might want to read the whole thread, guy. I've been pretty vocal about both Miller AND the situation sucking (relative to the general expectations anyway) since day one. Actually since he came out and people were wasting rookie mid-1sts on a 4th round speed committee guy on a weak running team.

lol. So are you implying that instead of taking Miller, they would have been better off taking Alshon Jeffrey, Stephen Hill, David Wilson, Coby Fleener, or Michael Floyd? You are completely out to lunch if you feel that anyone who took Lamar Miller in the second half of the first round last year made a mistake. Even if he remains a COP back forever, he's already done more, and has better upside, than most late first round rookie draft picks at this stage in his career.
Yeah, Miller is a far better selection than the guys drafted around him 2 years ago. Also, I don't know anyone who paid a mid first for him. He went late first or early second in all the leagues I'm in. I got him in a start up dynasty auction for like $2.

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I sold Miller last night in a huge package deal for Martin. I could have moved Leveon Bell instead of Miller in the deal, and paid less in other picks/players, but I just didn't want to deal with Miller anymore. At least I know Bell has a startable floor because of the touches.

Trying to do the same with Miller and couple #1s for Martin .....he's not rushing to accept but is considering

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Might want to read the whole thread, guy. I've been pretty vocal about both Miller AND the situation sucking (relative to the general expectations anyway) since day one. Actually since he came out and people were

wasting rookie mid-1sts on a 4th round speed committee guy on a weak running team.

lol. So are you implying that instead of taking Miller, they would have been better off taking Alshon Jeffrey, Stephen Hill, David Wilson, Coby Fleener, or Michael Floyd? You are completely out to lunch if you feel that anyone

who took Lamar Miller in the second half of the first round last year made a mistake. Even if he remains a COP back forever, he's already done more, and has better upside, than most late first round rookie draft picks at this stage in his career.

I wouldn't trade a single one of those guys straight up for Miller. And after Miami drafts a RB in the 2nd next year or signs Ben Tate neither will anyone else. The only way you got + ROI from taking Miller in the mid 1st was by flipping him to some sucker in between Bush leaving and week one. If you pulled that off, then congrats. Edited by Coeur de Lion

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I sold Miller last night in a huge package deal for Martin. I could have moved Leveon Bell instead of Miller in the deal, and paid less in other picks/players, but I just didn't want to deal with Miller anymore. At least I know Bell has a startable floor because of the touches.

Trying to do the same with Miller and couple #1s for Martin .....he's not rushing to accept but is considering

Good luck. It cost me considerably more than Miller and a couple #1's, unfortunately.

Miller

Decker

2014 1st (mid--but its a Devy league)

2014 3rd

2014 devy pick

2014 devy pick

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Did you watch last game? If anything Thomas proved that he brings nothing to the table. Look at the first drive, Miller has 4 carries for 39 yards and then Thomas comes in on a 3rd and 1 and kills the drive. At this point in the season both players have the same number of TDs, all off goal line carries. Thomas' week 3 TD came immediately after a 50yd Miller run when he was gassed.

The point we are trying to make is: If Thomas's only role is the short yardage back and he continues to prove that he is increasingly incapable of performing that job, Miller's job will only expand.

did you watch the game? that 3rd and 1 failure was obv not the fault of thomas. the left side of the line got completely blown up and he was met by multiple defenders in the back field.

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