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Evil G

Lamar Miller, 2016, Infinity and beyond

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I think the Moreno signing says more about Thomas than it does Miller. Miller is still young at only 22 years old - he's younger than some guys coming into the league as rookies this year such as Hyde. I think it could be beneficial to have an veteran like Moreno on the team to show him how it's done... if there's an dynasty owner out there wanting to dump him cheap to just cut bait, may want to consider him as a stash.

:lmao:

Let it go, man. Miller brings nothing to the table outside of speed. Young garbage is still garbage.

:toilet: = Miller

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Since December I've probably been offered Lamar Miller more than any other player. I don't own Lamar Miller. The Miller owners probably had a good idea this day would happen. There are a lot of savvy owners out there.

Edited by JohnnyU

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I think the Moreno signing says more about Thomas than it does Miller. Miller is still young at only 22 years old - he's younger than some guys coming into the league as rookies this year such as Hyde. I think it could be beneficial to have an veteran like Moreno on the team to show him how it's done... if there's an dynasty owner out there wanting to dump him cheap to just cut bait, may want to consider him as a stash.

:lmao:

Let it go, man. Miller brings nothing to the table outside of speed. Young garbage is still garbage.

I agree 100% Anyone should see this coming

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I'll pick him up if he's dropped or cheap. I'm not saying he's a buyBuyBUY. But to say his career is over because Moreno was signed is pretty short sighted.

ETA: using my phone and forgot a couple words.

Edited by werdnoynek

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Miller will be a COP but Thomas is droppable.

Didn't Thomas get more carries that Miller in many of the games last year?

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Miller will be a COP but Thomas is droppable.

Didn't Thomas get more carries that Miller in many of the games last year?

I expect Moreno to take those carries. Miller is still fast and will have a role even if it doesn't amount to much in fantasy.

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There's no question about Miller's explosiveness - if he could break tackles he would be a stud.

Why would someone like Matt Waldman comparei Miller to Clinton Portis if he wasn't strong enough to run inside and break a few arm tackles. That just doesn't make sense. So either he is developing that skill or Waldman is way off in his RSP on this kid.

I would love if Waldman would come into these threads and comment on what he's noticed in NFL games vs. what he saw on college tape.

Still waiting, Matt.

Edited by cstu

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I'll pick him up if he's dropped or cheap. I'm not saying he's a buyBuyBUY. But to say his career is over because Moreno was signed is pretty short sighted.

ETA: using my phone and forgot a couple words.

To clarify, I'm not saying his career is over because of Knowshon Moreno. I've said since day one that his career as anything other than Jerious Norwood was never going to get off the ground because of talent deficiency. Speed is great, but not if you can't run through an occasional arm tackle or make guys miss from time to time.

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A one year deal for Moreno doesn't mean the death of Miller. It sure means he missed his chance to run with the job, but I don't think Moreno is a long-term solution. Miller should get some 3rd down work, which is likely his best chance to succeed anyways.

If I owned Miller, I'd be much more concerned with them drafting someone in the first few rounds of the draft.

Edited by Black

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Looks like we've reached infinity.

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and this was just 3 days ago

Dolphins coach Joe Philbin threw some support behind Lamar Miller at the league meetings Tuesday, stating "He can do all three things you want a running back to do."
That would ostensibly be run, catch, and block. The Fins could show more support by declining to make a significant running back signing or using an early-round pick at tailback, but they recently hosted Knowshon Moreno for a free agent visit, and could target running backs as early as the No. 50 overall pick. Miller is very lightly penciled in as the Dolphins' current lead back

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and this was just 3 days ago

Dolphins coach Joe Philbin threw some support behind Lamar Miller at the league meetings Tuesday, stating "He can do all three things you want a running back to do."

That would ostensibly be run, catch, and block. The Fins could show more support by declining to make a significant running back signing or using an early-round pick at tailback, but they recently hosted Knowshon Moreno for a free agent visit, and could target running backs as early as the No. 50 overall pick. Miller is very lightly penciled in as the Dolphins' current lead back

Coachspeak = worthless. Last year they said quite a bit about Miller too.

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Didn't know miller was so young, left college at age 20? sheesh

A 1 year move for a vet like Moreno while hurting his short term value,but shouldn't make owners panic

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Rotoworld:

Dolphins coach Joe Philbin threw some support behind Lamar Miller at the league meetings Tuesday, stating "He can do all three things you want a running back to do."

That would ostensibly be run, catch, and block. The Fins could show more support by declining to make a significant running back signing or using an early-round pick at tailback, but they recently hosted Knowshon Moreno for a free agent visit, and could target running backs as early as the No. 50 overall pick. Miller is very lightly penciled in as the Dolphins' current lead back.

That didn't happen.

FF'ers, welcome to the three headed monster that is the Dolphins running game.

three headed monster?

Seriously?

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Moreno's work ethic will help mentor Miller and make him a better RB

but unless Miami improves their OL it won't matter who's in the backfield

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A one year deal for Moreno doesn't mean the death of Miller. It sure means he missed his chance to run with the job, but I don't think Moreno is a long-term solution. Miller should get some 3rd down work, which is likely his best chance to succeed anyways.

If I owned Miller, I'd be much more concerned with them drafting someone in the first few rounds of the draft.

Tannehill got sacked a billion times last year. Moreno is an excellent pass protector. Miller won't be seeing the field much on 3rd down.

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if miller doesnt fumble at the goal line after making mindboggling cutback into the defender rather than waltzing straight into the end zone, he would have ran away with the job and been a solid fantasy play.

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A one year deal for Moreno doesn't mean the death of Miller. It sure means he missed his chance to run with the job, but I don't think Moreno is a long-term solution. Miller should get some 3rd down work, which is likely his best chance to succeed anyways.

If I owned Miller, I'd be much more concerned with them drafting someone in the first few rounds of the draft.

Tannehill got sacked a billion times last year. Moreno is an excellent pass protector. Miller won't be seeing the field much on 3rd down.

your logic is flawed. If he doesnt see 3rd down work it wont be because of millers pass pro

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A one year deal for Moreno doesn't mean the death of Miller. It sure means he missed his chance to run with the job, but I don't think Moreno is a long-term solution. Miller should get some 3rd down work, which is likely his best chance to succeed anyways.

If I owned Miller, I'd be much more concerned with them drafting someone in the first few rounds of the draft.

Tannehill got sacked a billion times last year. Moreno is an excellent pass protector. Miller won't be seeing the field much on 3rd down.

your logic is flawed. If he doesnt see 3rd down work it wont be because of millers pass pro

Just calling something flawed doesn't make it so. Feel free to point out what you think is the logical conclusion of a team signing a superior pass protector.

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2 2 years of age.

Something to think about.

And so is TRich until July.

I still have no interest in either of them. Being a young RB is great, but you also have to be good.

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2 2 years of age.

Something to think about.

And so is TRich until July.

I still have no interest in either of them. Being a young RB is great, but you also have to be good.

Being written off before you reach rookie age is great, but you still have a lot time to prove nay-sayers wrong.

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miller's value is pretty diminished - if it wasn't already - right now. i am holding onto him in dynasty but i have very little confidence in him.

ETA - saw this tonight.

"Knowshon is a very talented back," general manager Dennis Hickey said Friday. "He's a three-down back who can help out team in a lot of different ways."

Pretty clear that Miller is fighting for a back-up spot now.

Edited by saintfool

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Miller had his chance last year, we could be talking about a potential new contract in the works and instead Moreno comes to town. I haven't completely given up on Miller but I think he definitely needs to add some more bulk and physicality to his game. He's certainly has the quicks and explosion.

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Miller probably won't see the field very much while Moreno is healthy, but he makes for an intriguing flyer since Moreno has had trouble staying healthy in the past. If Miami improves their offensive line, I foresee Miller being a favorite target of mine at the end of drafts this season. Only a handful of backs could have produced behind that line last year, which is why the situation was an avoid for me, but that doesn't mean I hold it (his performance behind a bad line) against him this year if the situation changes.

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A one year deal for Moreno doesn't mean the death of Miller. It sure means he missed his chance to run with the job, but I don't think Moreno is a long-term solution. Miller should get some 3rd down work, which is likely his best chance to succeed anyways.

If I owned Miller, I'd be much more concerned with them drafting someone in the first few rounds of the draft.

Tannehill got sacked a billion times last year. Moreno is an excellent pass protector. Miller won't be seeing the field much on 3rd down.

your logic is flawed. If he doesnt see 3rd down work it wont be because of millers pass pro

Huh? His point was Moreno's top level pass protection skills are what will keep Miller off the field on third downs. Seems pretty logical to me.

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Joe Philbin: Lamar Miller must break more tackles

By Chris Wesseling

Around the League Writer

The Miami Dolphins aren't throwing in the towel on Lamar Miller's career now that Knowshon Moreno has taken his talents to South Beach.

Miller will be given the opportunity to compete for the starting job, but coach Joe Philbin wants to see more explosive runs from him this season.

"We've got to break more tackles. I may have been guilty of overcoaching, harping on the ball security issue," Philbin said of Miller, via The Miami Herald. "He really did a good job of that. At some point, running backs need to break tackles.

"It's not that he didn't break any. But he's got to break some more. There is room that we could potentially utilize him more (as a pass receiver). He has good natural hands, good speed."

This is no small hurdle for Miller to clear.

Lack of power was the No. 1 concern when we broke down Miller's strengths and weaknesses during last offseason's Making the Leap series.

Grading Miller for the 2012 NFL Draft, NFL Media analyst Mike Mayock cautioned that the University of Miami star "doesn't show up" on third down, in short-yardage or at the goal line. Two years later, those same areas are holding Miller back.

Outside of Peyton Manning's offense, Moreno will no longer have the luxury of facing six defenders or fewer in the box. The Dolphins need Miller to gain power and master the fundamentals of the position so they can take advantage of his big-play ability in a tandem attack.

The latest "Around The League Podcast" reviews potential landing spots for DeSean Jackson and declares this week's winners and losers.

Edited by Faust

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Many wrote Moreno off long ago he did ok last year. Thomas Jones got off to a slow start in his career.

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This thread should serve as a history lesson for future fantasy players. There were a ton of red flags for Miller yet some people get so blindly caught up in measurables, most notably speed, that they cannot help but buy in to the hype. Not to derail this thread, but Christine Michael strikes me as someone whom this lesson could be applied to.

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This thread should serve as a history lesson for future fantasy players. There were a ton of red flags for Miller yet some people get so blindly caught up in measurables, most notably speed, that they cannot help but buy in to the hype. Not to derail this thread, but Christine Michael strikes me as someone whom this lesson could be applied to.

And also, just because he went to a university that you didn't attend but are a fan of, doesn't mean he's going to be good.

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This thread should serve as a history lesson for future fantasy players. There were a ton of red flags for Miller yet some people get so blindly caught up in measurables, most notably sowed, that they cannot help but buy in to the hype. Not to derail this thread, but Christine Michael strikes me as someone whom this lesson could be applied to.

Hope springs eternal.

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The article was very good and certainly pointed out everything I had seen as a dolphins fan. He was never given enough work on a consistent basis and those three games where he was clearly on his way to dominant games Sherman was a Buffon of a OC and pissed away those opportunities for Miller.

He is a better back than he showed last season. And again it was his first full season as he only got 51 carries as a rookie behind Reggie Bush.

Haters are going to hate no matter what. And all the "I told you so" posters are out in force. The fact remains that his career is certainly not over and it still remains to be seen how he ends up turning out a a pro.

Put him in a different situation and I can assure you he would have been far more productive.

Yeah.....he will never move piles. That is not the kind of back he is. Get him in space ad on the edges and he can be a deadly playmaker.

Moreno is in his path......but I dare you to say Moreno would have been better behind the schlock of a OL Miller had to run behind and the disgusting play calling of the genius known as Mike Sherman.

Again when given 11 plus touches a game 90% of the time this kid produced. They never fully committed to the run and to Miller.

Haters say cuz he is not that good. I say he is one of the most talented playmakers the Dolphins have and he was more a victim of piss poor run blocking and piss poor coaching.

2014 will be another season to watch......and learn.

The talent is no doubt there. But other things need to fall into place for success. It's a team game an Millers line was the worst in pro football yet he still managed over 4 yards a pop.

Strong hold in dynasty. No question. And if this year he fades away.......so what.

We have all drafted plenty of busts in out FF careers!

Edited by Todem

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Moreno is in his path......but I dare you to say Moreno would have been better behind the schlock of a OL Miller had to run behind and the disgusting play calling of the genius known as Mike Sherman.

Moreno would have been better.

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This thread should serve as a history lesson for future fantasy players. There were a ton of red flags for Miller yet some people get so blindly caught up in measurables, most notably speed, that they cannot help but buy in to the hype. Not to derail this thread, but Christine Michael strikes me as someone whom this lesson could be applied to.

I kinda agree

The concern w Moreno should be ? Time on the field for Miller, whether in cop (whatever) The hot-hand may play the most. It wouldn't shock me to see em improve the OLIne and wind up expecting Miller to deliever..

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This thread should serve as a history lesson for future fantasy players. There were a ton of red flags for Miller yet some people get so blindly caught up in measurables, most notably speed, that they cannot help but buy in to the hype. Not to derail this thread, but Christine Michael strikes me as someone whom this lesson could be applied to.

Unlike Miller, Michael has all the attributes to be successful. What people ignore is that he was never able to stay healthy for a single season in college and just assume he will be a 300 carry back like Lynch.

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A one year deal for Moreno doesn't mean the death of Miller. It sure means he missed his chance to run with the job, but I don't think Moreno is a long-term solution. Miller should get some 3rd down work, which is likely his best chance to succeed anyways.

If I owned Miller, I'd be much more concerned with them drafting someone in the first few rounds of the draft.

Tannehill got sacked a billion times last year. Moreno is an excellent pass protector. Miller won't be seeing the field much on 3rd down.

your logic is flawed. If he doesnt see 3rd down work it wont be because of millers pass pro

Huh? His point was Moreno's top level pass protection skills are what will keep Miller off the field on third downs. Seems pretty logical to me.

Last year Miller was in on almost as many pass plays as Moreno. PFFs pass blocking efficiency rated Miller #7 and Moreno #10. Like I said, if he doesnt see time it wont be because of his pass pro

edit: thats with at least 50% pass block snaps played. if you change it to 25% Miller is #14 Moreno is #24

Edited by ldizzle

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for me, as a miler owner, i don't know what i have. i *think* he has potential but he hasn't done enough the little opportunity he has been given. i'm planning to monitor offseason and preseason closely to determine if he's worth holding.

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I was never liked Miller for his speed alone and could care less where he went to college. I read about and saw his slick movement with the ball, which with that speed set him apart from a straight line blazer. I agree he doesn't break a lot of tackles or power through defenders. There are a several valuable RBs with this issue (Bush, CJ?K, Ellington and Gio come to mind) who are valuable backs, but I agree its a big concern. If he never pans out, I think that will be a big part of why. But we haven't seen Miller with even a passable OL (and he gained 4+ ypc behind the worst in the game in bizarre usage). Maybe some of you can tell that good blocking won't make a difference, or maybe you just think you can. I don't see Moreno as an insurmountable replacement - in fact, as a Miller owner, Moreno on a one year deal is far better for Miller than if they'd picked a RB in the first 3 rounds of the draft.If they do that I will worry. And I won't rely on Miller as a '14 starter, but I don't think we've have seen enough to write him off yet either. He's a perfect wait and see/bye week filler worth holding. And a lottery ticket if the glimpses we've seen here and there are what he can be.

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I was never liked Miller for his speed alone and could care less where he went to college. I read about and saw his slick movement with the ball, which with that speed set him apart from a straight line blazer. I agree he doesn't break a lot of tackles or power through defenders. There are a several valuable RBs with this issue (Bush, CJ?K, Ellington and Gio come to mind) who are valuable backs, but I agree its a big concern. If he never pans out, I think that will be a big part of why. But we haven't seen Miller with even a passable OL (and he gained 4+ ypc behind the worst in the game in bizarre usage). Maybe some of you can tell that good blocking won't make a difference, or maybe you just think you can. I don't see Moreno as an insurmountable replacement - in fact, as a Miller owner, Moreno on a one year deal is far better for Miller than if they'd picked a RB in the first 3 rounds of the draft.If they do that I will worry. And I won't rely on Miller as a '14 starter, but I don't think we've have seen enough to write him off yet either. He's a perfect wait and see/bye week filler worth holding. And a lottery ticket if the glimpses we've seen here and there are what he can be.

If I owned Miller I would be looking for an owner in my league like you who is still holding out hope, and use him to either move up in the draft or attain as high a draft pick as possible, which I would imagine is the 16th overall or later. He might serve as good trade bait or an add-on for the Moreno owner.

If you "wait and see" I think you will be holding on to a guy that has zero value next year. The ideal time to trade was last year when his hype was through the roof.

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I was never liked Miller for his speed alone and could care less where he went to college. I read about and saw his slick movement with the ball, which with that speed set him apart from a straight line blazer. I agree he doesn't break a lot of tackles or power through defenders. There are a several valuable RBs with this issue (Bush, CJ?K, Ellington and Gio come to mind) who are valuable backs, but I agree its a big concern. If he never pans out, I think that will be a big part of why. But we haven't seen Miller with even a passable OL (and he gained 4+ ypc behind the worst in the game in bizarre usage). Maybe some of you can tell that good blocking won't make a difference, or maybe you just think you can. I don't see Moreno as an insurmountable replacement - in fact, as a Miller owner, Moreno on a one year deal is far better for Miller than if they'd picked a RB in the first 3 rounds of the draft.If they do that I will worry. And I won't rely on Miller as a '14 starter, but I don't think we've have seen enough to write him off yet either. He's a perfect wait and see/bye week filler worth holding. And a lottery ticket if the glimpses we've seen here and there are what he can be.

Yes, I wasn't talking about you here, sorry. There is another outspoken guy in this thread that loves him because he is from Miami. It has clouded his vision terrible.

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If a guy doesn't get snaps (football) or more playing time (basketball), then there is usually a good reason.

Yeah, they fire the OC because he sucked and didn't know how to use his players.

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I really wish they would have fired Philbin too. You may recall that they had some questionable usage of Bush as well. He shoulda/coulda/woulda been a fantasy beast his two years in Miami.

I'm definitely holding on Miller. Maybe he sucks, but it's obvious that the coaching has been horrible. I think we need that sorted out first.

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So is the writing on the wall for Miller? Now that they have brought in Moreno. Moreno is a 3 down back since he can do all things as well as/better than Miller...certainly catch and block. Probably not as fast but that hasn't helped Miller either. As long as that line sucks and Tannehill doesn't scare anyone probably doesn't matter who the RB is.

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So is the writing on the wall for Miller? Now that they have brought in Moreno. Moreno is a 3 down back since he can do all things as well as/better than Miller...certainly catch and block. Probably not as fast but that hasn't helped Miller either. As long as that line sucks and Tannehill doesn't scare anyone probably doesn't matter who the RB is.

No and your last line is the real answer. Sherman was fired for incompetence so there's a new OC in town.

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