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Andre Ellington - RB - Clemson.

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Here is the thing. First you are making excuses by claiming injury as to why he struggled.

I'm not a huge Ellington fan, but to be fair it seems people's memories are very short. There were serious questions as to whether Ellington would start the season on the PUP or even miss the entire year when he hurt his foot late in training camp. It was a serious injury whether one wants to admit it or not, and it would seem pretty logical that a serious foot injury would slow a RB like Ellington down. The rest of the RBs rostered by Arizona at the time were not legitimate options so the team had no choice but to push Ellington out there. As some one that doesn't see Johnson as a great prospect (I think he's soft), I'd still avoid this situation completely due to it's murkiness (unless either back came very cheaply which I doubt), but I don't think the injury angle is really an "excuse", it's a legitimate possible explanation.

What makes you think he's soft? He had 1007 touches in college.

Admittedly there's only two game cut ups out there so it's a small sample size, but I don't think he attacks defenders and looks to avoid contact (despite his size). At times he actually looks like he pulled back to brace for the hit instead of falling forward and gaining those extra yards or two. It may not be a huge deal, but it's just my opinion on him based on the info that I have. He's in a good landing spot at least and he does fit the Arians offense.

Soft? Seriously? You and I have VERY different definitions of soft. Soft is guys like CJ Spiller who sit games due to a thigh bruise. Soft is guys who miss games with minor ailments as far as NFL RBs go. Not players who play with torn ligaments. You want to talk about his running style? Cool, he is a shifty back, not a bruiser or pound you looking for contact type of runner. That doesn't make him soft.

As for all this discussion on Johnson, listen to the coach. He is not a liar or unreliable as some may suggest when it comes to how players will be used. He said preseason last year that Ellington would be a "bellcow back", and he was. The year before he was mostly forth coming in the same way. This year he has already stated Ellington will be used in the same role. I'd expect if Johnson is capable he will have a role but I'll bet Ellington will lead this team in RB touches by quite a bit, say 60 - 65%. In todays NFL that's significant. RB2 (13-18 range) with upside.

I'm assuming you are referring to the interview where the coach and GM were talking about Johnson post draft, but referred to Ellington briefly. If you consider that, in the context of the entire interview, as a ringing endorsement for Ellington, I would beg to differ. Watch the whole interview. Don't just cherry pick the things you want to hear.

I'm not saying that Ellington is garbage or anything, but from a dynasty perspective you just can't hook your wagon to a RB who is the lightest guy on the field with an extensive history of injuries and expect long-term production.

As much as I hate Rotoworld since they cherry pick things they want to hear when the want to hear them, they agreed with me at the end of March. I'm sure they have changed their mind by now because this will undermine their rankings, but this is what they said on March 25:

Coach Bruce Arians said the Cardinals would "like to have a bigger back."
The Cardinals asked Andre Ellington to be their workhorse last season, a role his 199-pound frame was ill-equipped to handle. His yards per carry dropped off a cliff with a heavier workload, which strongly suggests Ellington is more suited for a change of pace role.

I'm referring to anything Arians has said about Ellington in the off season. Johnson will have a role most likely but the Cards were going to add a RB because teams need multiple players at that position no matter who the starter is. Ellington will have to either lose the job or Johnson will have to steal it by outperforming him. None of which makes Ellington "soft". Injury prone? Maybe, but I stopped placing that label on guys after Fred Taylor. Injuries happen and there is no way to predict them.

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Traded him in a PPR Contract Keeper league where I could have kept him another year for this year's 1.6 in a 2 round rookie draft. Honestly, I like Ellington a lot. I just kind of tired of the unknown with him. If he's on the field he can be explosive in PPR leagues. He's tougher than given credit for.

Playing with a nagging injury all season long takes a level of toughness. I would love to see what he can do healthy. The trade can come back to bite me depending on who that 1.6 becomes.

I see David Johnson as a back that should actually help Ellington more than hurt him.

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Rotoworld:

Andre Ellington - RB - Cardinals

Andre Ellington has resumed making "all" cuts after playing through a foot injury in 2014.

Ellington is rehabbing from foot and hip injuries, in addition to sports hernia surgery. It's not an exaggeration to say his body fell apart in 2014 when tasked with a 20-plus touch-per-game workload. "It's like night and day," Ellington said of the way he feels now. "During the season I was limited on some cuts going to the right, pushing off my left foot. I'm close to doing a lot of things I've done in the past. Just (this week) I was able to do all my cuts and put a lot more pressure on my foot." Ellington's 2015 workload will be challenged by rookie David Johnson.

Source: Arizona Republic

May 10 - 4:57 PM

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if you could get 15 touches per game out of ellington for the whole season sign me up (given how low he is ranked on some people's RB boards). competent QB play should help things as well

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if you could get 15 touches per game out of ellington for the whole season sign me up (given how low he is ranked on some people's RB boards). competent QB play should help things as well

Hard for me to believe that a HEALTHY Ellington doesn't average 12 carries and 4 catches a game. I'm not going to predict injuries in yearly projects, but he should probably be handicapped in dynasty by them a small bit.

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Rotoworld:

Andre Ellington has reportedly looked 100 percent during Cardinals OTAs.

Per beat writer Mike Jurecki, Ellington is "showing his elusive quickness in the OTA workouts." Ellington flopped as Arizona's feature back last season -- he averaged an alarmingly poor 3.28 yards per carry -- though his proponents believe the ineffectiveness can be blamed on myriad injuries. Ellington will try to hold off athletic phenom David Johnson for lead-back snaps this season.
Jun 8 - 4:06 PM

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Rotoworld:

The Cardinals' official site says Andre Ellington "remains the linchpin" at the running back position.

Ellington is healthy and will head to camp as the first-string running back. But he's coming off a 3.28 YPC season and the Cardinals used the No. 86 overall pick on a player with a similar skill set in David Johnson. Expect Ellington to hold off Johnson for lead back duties, but he won't come close to the volume he saw last year (20.5 touches per game).
Related: David Johnson
Jun 15 - 7:58 AM

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I really like the value and potential here. He is gong as about the 22nd RB in non PPR. As "bad" as he was last year and despite missing 4 games, he was RB20. If you think he can be equal or even better to that, then he is a good pick. He was 15th in ppg which was better than guys like McCoy and Morris. If he and Palmer can stay healthy, I think we could get a nice blend of 2013 and 2014 in terms of workload and production. I think he if healthy goes over 1500 yards and scores 6-8 times.

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I cant seem to pull the trigger on him in dynasty startups, could be a wasted pick with david Johnson lurking.....

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I cant seem to pull the trigger on him in dynasty startups, could be a wasted pick with david Johnson lurking.....

I don't like him in dynasty. He does seem injury prone, Johnson is lurking, and no clue how much tread Palmer has left to keep that offense rolling. I do think he's a worthwhile gamble in standard redraft in the late 4th or early 5th.

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Interesting to read how much Ellington backlash has come into this forum because of last year. 12 months ago, he was coming off a >5.0 ypc and everyone was touting him. Did a lot of owners get burned? Now no one wants to pull the trigger and his ADP keeps dropping.

Surely, he can't have become so much worse overnight. He would still get a ton of catches and gain a lot of yards on those. David Johnson doesn't seem like the type of runner to dominate this backfield either. Ellington will benefit from the reduced workload and is still a great bet to yield you mid-to-high RB2 PPR numbers.

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Interesting to read how much Ellington backlash has come into this forum because of last year. 12 months ago, he was coming off a >5.0 ypc and everyone was touting him. Did a lot of owners get burned? Now no one wants to pull the trigger and his ADP keeps dropping.

Surely, he can't have become so much worse overnight. He would still get a ton of catches and gain a lot of yards on those. David Johnson doesn't seem like the type of runner to dominate this backfield either. Ellington will benefit from the reduced workload and is still a great bet to yield you mid-to-high RB2 PPR numbers.

Ellington was never healthy last year. Remember he hurt his foot before the season started and some speculated it could cost him a significant amount of time. Instead, he played hurt through almost all of the season before the week 14 hip pointer shut him down. Granted, injuries are concern for him. However, I think his dip in performance has to be viewed in light of the injuries. Despite the injuries and poor performance, he still outperformed where he is currently being drafted. If he stays healthy and Palmer stays healthy, he is going to be a big value. Last year, in non ppr, Ellington played 6 games with Palmer at QB and put up these numbers: 397 rushing, 197 receiving and 3 TDs. All of this was with a bad foot.

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I cant seem to pull the trigger on him in dynasty startups, could be a wasted pick with david Johnson lurking.....

I don't like him in dynasty. He does seem injury prone, Johnson is lurking, and no clue how much tread Palmer has left to keep that offense rolling. I do think he's a worthwhile gamble in standard redraft in the late 4th or early 5th.

I agree that the injury concerns are going to limit his career in dynasty, however I don't think Johnson is the guy he is going to lose the job to.

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Interesting to read how much Ellington backlash has come into this forum because of last year. 12 months ago, he was coming off a >5.0 ypc and everyone was touting him. Did a lot of owners get burned? Now no one wants to pull the trigger and his ADP keeps dropping.

Surely, he can't have become so much worse overnight. He would still get a ton of catches and gain a lot of yards on those. David Johnson doesn't seem like the type of runner to dominate this backfield either. Ellington will benefit from the reduced workload and is still a great bet to yield you mid-to-high RB2 PPR numbers.

Ellington was never healthy last year. Remember he hurt his foot before the season started and some speculated it could cost him a significant amount of time. Instead, he played hurt through almost all of the season before the week 14 hip pointer shut him down. Granted, injuries are concern for him. However, I think his dip in performance has to be viewed in light of the injuries. Despite the injuries and poor performance, he still outperformed where he is currently being drafted. If he stays healthy and Palmer stays healthy, he is going to be a big value. Last year, in non ppr, Ellington played 6 games with Palmer at QB and put up these numbers: 397 rushing, 197 receiving and 3 TDs. All of this was with a bad foot.

:goodposting:

Ellington finished as RB19 in PPR and RB20 in standard, never scored less than 10 fantasy points (except the last game where he left in the 1st half) and posted RB1 numbers 5 times. All having played in only 12 games on a partially torn tendon in his foot, an injury he sustained in training camp, and 6 without the benefit of starting QB Carson Palmer.

Yes his small frame and injury history are a concern. But this why I feel Johnson adds to Ellington's value rather than subtracting from it. Less touches will actually make Ellington more efficient.

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Interesting to read how much Ellington backlash has come into this forum because of last year. 12 months ago, he was coming off a >5.0 ypc and everyone was touting him. Did a lot of owners get burned? Now no one wants to pull the trigger and his ADP keeps dropping.

Surely, he can't have become so much worse overnight. He would still get a ton of catches and gain a lot of yards on those. David Johnson doesn't seem like the type of runner to dominate this backfield either. Ellington will benefit from the reduced workload and is still a great bet to yield you mid-to-high RB2 PPR numbers.

I cant seem to pull the trigger on him in dynasty startups, could be a wasted pick with david Johnson lurking.....

I don't like him in dynasty. He does seem injury prone, Johnson is lurking, and no clue how much tread Palmer has left to keep that offense rolling. I do think he's a worthwhile gamble in standard redraft in the late 4th or early 5th.

Good luck with that, as his ADP in MFL 10s is at pick 36, right at the end of the 3rd. And in the majority of leagues he gone by the mid to early 4th. That said, I still tend to think he's good value where he's going.

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Interesting to read how much Ellington backlash has come into this forum because of last year. 12 months ago, he was coming off a >5.0 ypc and everyone was touting him. Did a lot of owners get burned? Now no one wants to pull the trigger and his ADP keeps dropping.

Surely, he can't have become so much worse overnight. He would still get a ton of catches and gain a lot of yards on those. David Johnson doesn't seem like the type of runner to dominate this backfield either. Ellington will benefit from the reduced workload and is still a great bet to yield you mid-to-high RB2 PPR numbers.

I cant seem to pull the trigger on him in dynasty startups, could be a wasted pick with david Johnson lurking.....

I don't like him in dynasty. He does seem injury prone, Johnson is lurking, and no clue how much tread Palmer has left to keep that offense rolling. I do think he's a worthwhile gamble in standard redraft in the late 4th or early 5th.

Good luck with that, as his ADP in MFL 10s is at pick 36, right at the end of the 3rd. And in the majority of leagues he gone by the mid to early 4th. That said, I still tend to think he's good value where he's going.

I'm basing it on adp I am seeing in some non PPR. 5th Round is probably too optimistic though. Edited by Ilov80s

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I really like the value and potential here. He is gong as about the 22nd RB in non PPR. As "bad" as he was last year and despite missing 4 games, he was RB20. If you think he can be equal or even better to that, then he is a good pick. He was 15th in ppg which was better than guys like McCoy and Morris. If he and Palmer can stay healthy, I think we could get a nice blend of 2013 and 2014 in terms of workload and production. I think he if healthy goes over 1500 yards and scores 6-8 times.

:no:

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I really like the value and potential here. He is gong as about the 22nd RB in non PPR. As "bad" as he was last year and despite missing 4 games, he was RB20. If you think he can be equal or even better to that, then he is a good pick. He was 15th in ppg which was better than guys like McCoy and Morris. If he and Palmer can stay healthy, I think we could get a nice blend of 2013 and 2014 in terms of workload and production. I think he if healthy goes over 1500 yards and scores 6-8 times.

:no:
Any thoughts beyond what a magic 8ball could provide?
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Rotoworld:

Cardinals coach Bruce Arians said Sunday he envisions Andre Ellington handling 20 touches per game this season.

Arians emphasized that Ellington's touches will involve receptions, and not just carries. Ellington handled over 22 touches per game last season, but averaged an anemic 3.3 yards per carry and broke down physically, ending the year on injured reserve. The Cardinals are miscasting Ellington as a true feature back. Rookie David Johnson will make his case for a backfield role in preseason games. Johnson is essentially a bigger, more athletic version of Ellington with arguably even more-dynamic pass-catching ability.
Aug 2 - 2:48 PM

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Rotoworld:

Cardinals coach Bruce Arians said Sunday he envisions Andre Ellington handling 20 touches per game this season.

Arians emphasized that Ellington's touches will involve receptions, and not just carries. Ellington handled over 22 touches per game last season, but averaged an anemic 3.3 yards per carry and broke down physically, ending the year on injured reserve. The Cardinals are miscasting Ellington as a true feature back. Rookie David Johnson will make his case for a backfield role in preseason games. Johnson is essentially a bigger, more athletic version of Ellington with arguably even more-dynamic pass-catching ability.
Aug 2 - 2:48 PM

Money in the bank!!!

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I really like the value and potential here. He is gong as about the 22nd RB in non PPR. As "bad" as he was last year and despite missing 4 games, he was RB20. If you think he can be equal or even better to that, then he is a good pick. He was 15th in ppg which was better than guys like McCoy and Morris. If he and Palmer can stay healthy, I think we could get a nice blend of 2013 and 2014 in terms of workload and production. I think he if healthy goes over 1500 yards and scores 6-8 times.

:no:

He said "if healthy". Last year he wasn't healthy and was over 1000 yards and 5 scores in only 12 games without Palmer in half of them. What exactly do you object to?

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I really like the value and potential here. He is gong as about the 22nd RB in non PPR. As "bad" as he was last year and despite missing 4 games, he was RB20. If you think he can be equal or even better to that, then he is a good pick. He was 15th in ppg which was better than guys like McCoy and Morris. If he and Palmer can stay healthy, I think we could get a nice blend of 2013 and 2014 in terms of workload and production. I think he if healthy goes over 1500 yards and scores 6-8 times.

:no:

He said "if healthy". Last year he wasn't healthy and was over 1000 yards and 5 scores in only 12 games without Palmer in half of them. What exactly do you object to?

He objects to objectivity.

Obviously.

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I really like the value and potential here. He is gong as about the 22nd RB in non PPR. As "bad" as he was last year and despite missing 4 games, he was RB20. If you think he can be equal or even better to that, then he is a good pick. He was 15th in ppg which was better than guys like McCoy and Morris. If he and Palmer can stay healthy, I think we could get a nice blend of 2013 and 2014 in terms of workload and production. I think he if healthy goes over 1500 yards and scores 6-8 times.

:no:

He said "if healthy". Last year he wasn't healthy and was over 1000 yards and 5 scores in only 12 games without Palmer in half of them. What exactly do you object to?

Ellington is not a Seahawk.

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This latest Rotoworld blurb breaks the scale of bias. It's sad to watch how a once excellent news outlet has descended into promoting the FF interests of whichever random writer is writing the 'analysis'...and I think this all started when it was bought by NBC. Yuck...I have long moved to getting my news from the FBG news ticker. At least I get random different biases there.

On this one, Arians says Ellington will get 20 touches, with a particular emphasis on receptions. Somehow, the writer - most likely a David Johnson owner, suffering from rookie fever? - manages to interpret this as: "You see, Ellington had a low ypc last year, and he broke down, and the Cardinals are totally incompetent to think of him as a lead back, and it's David Johnson that is really the stud here and he so much bigger and better than Ellington."

Huh? Johnson hasn't played a down in the NFL. His head coach seems determined to feature Ellington in a receiving role, not him. The proper analysis here is something like "If he manages to stay health, Ellington might represent a real steal in PPR simply because of receiving volume."

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I love Johnson, but besides his ability, the other thing I like is I believe Ellington is just a guy. Maybe one of the worst starting RBs in the league. I'm higher on Johnson in dynasty leagues because I can see Arians going with Ellington to start the season.

Redraft is a bit of a gamble due to not knowing when Johnson will overtake Ellington. Could happen early, though.

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This latest Rotoworld blurb breaks the scale of bias. It's sad to watch how a once excellent news outlet has descended into promoting the FF interests of whichever random writer is writing the 'analysis'...and I think this all started when it was bought by NBC. Yuck...I have long moved to getting my news from the FBG news ticker. At least I get random different biases there.

On this one, Arians says Ellington will get 20 touches, with a particular emphasis on receptions. Somehow, the writer - most likely a David Johnson owner, suffering from rookie fever? - manages to interpret this as: "You see, Ellington had a low ypc last year, and he broke down, and the Cardinals are totally incompetent to think of him as a lead back, and it's David Johnson that is really the stud here and he so much bigger and better than Ellington."

Huh? Johnson hasn't played a down in the NFL. His head coach seems determined to feature Ellington in a receiving role, not him. The proper analysis here is something like "If he manages to stay health, Ellington might represent a real steal in PPR simply because of receiving volume."

Well, one can hope all other league owners are reading/buying the Rotowire "analysis," and adjust accordingly. Could be a gift, actually. Not sure on Ellington, but generally speaking.

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Rotoworld:

Cardinals coach Bruce Arians said Sunday he envisions Andre Ellington handling 20 touches per game this season.

Arians emphasized that Ellington's touches will involve receptions, and not just carries. Ellington handled over 22 touches per game last season, but averaged an anemic 3.3 yards per carry and broke down physically, ending the year on injured reserve. The Cardinals are miscasting Ellington as a true feature back. Rookie David Johnson will make his case for a backfield role in preseason games. Johnson is essentially a bigger, more athletic version of Ellington with arguably even more-dynamic pass-catching ability.
Aug 2 - 2:48 PM

These Rotoworld messages are infuriatingly bad. Please stop posting them.

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Rotoworld:

Cardinals coach Bruce Arians said Sunday he envisions Andre Ellington handling 20 touches per game this season.

Arians emphasized that Ellington's touches will involve receptions, and not just carries. Ellington handled over 22 touches per game last season, but averaged an anemic 3.3 yards per carry and broke down physically, ending the year on injured reserve. The Cardinals are miscasting Ellington as a true feature back. Rookie David Johnson will make his case for a backfield role in preseason games. Johnson is essentially a bigger, more athletic version of Ellington with arguably even more-dynamic pass-catching ability.
Aug 2 - 2:48 PM

These Rotoworld messages are infuriatingly bad. Please stop posting them.

How about you just ignore them?

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I am not sure I get the Roto hate in here. Do people really think it is a stretch to suggest that Ellington may be miscast as a true feature back? I think he is fun to watch and incredibly dangerous with the ball in his hands and I also think he is probably a good value in redrafts right now. But IMO if he is going to live up to punishment of 20+ touches/game he will probably have to average about 8 catches/game (extraordinarily unlikely, I know) because I get nervous that he will maintain his effectiveness if he has to carry the ball more than 12 times per game.

His end of season numbers last year were fine if you drafted him in the 7th round (or later) but they were a big disappointment for where he was typically drafted (4.02 in my 12 team league).

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According to this MFL ADP since July 15 Andre Ellington is being drafted as the 52nd overall player with an ADP of pick 58 or 59 which is pick 4.08 or 4.09 in a 12 team league.

Edited by Biabreakable

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Rotoworld:

Andre Ellington is dealing with a "tight" hamstring.

It's obviously not a major issue, but a reminder of Ellington's fragility, and the absurdity of coach Bruce Arians' claim that Ellington will handle 20 weekly touches this season. Ellington simply isn't durable enough to be a full-time back, and the sooner the Cardinals realize as such, the better.
Aug 3 - 2:16 PM

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Rotoworld:

Cardinals coach Bruce Arians said Sunday he envisions Andre Ellington handling 20 touches per game this season.

Arians emphasized that Ellington's touches will involve receptions, and not just carries. Ellington handled over 22 touches per game last season, but averaged an anemic 3.3 yards per carry and broke down physically, ending the year on injured reserve. The Cardinals are miscasting Ellington as a true feature back. Rookie David Johnson will make his case for a backfield role in preseason games. Johnson is essentially a bigger, more athletic version of Ellington with arguably even more-dynamic pass-catching ability.
Aug 2 - 2:48 PM

These Rotoworld messages are infuriatingly bad. Please stop posting them.

By now everyone knows Rotoworld has it's agendas/bias within the blurbs they post - but the news is still worth reading and discussing. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

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Rotoworld:

Andre Ellington is dealing with a "tight" hamstring.

It's obviously not a major issue, but a reminder of Ellington's fragility, and the absurdity of coach Bruce Arians' claim that Ellington will handle 20 weekly touches this season. Ellington simply isn't durable enough to be a full-time back, and the sooner the Cardinals realize as such, the better.

Source: Kent Somers on Twitter

Aug 3 - 2:16 PM

Lol he's already hurt?

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I am not sure I get the Roto hate in here. Do people really think it is a stretch to suggest that Ellington may be miscast as a true feature back? I think he is fun to watch and incredibly dangerous with the ball in his hands and I also think he is probably a good value in redrafts right now. But IMO if he is going to live up to punishment of 20+ touches/game he will probably have to average about 8 catches/game (extraordinarily unlikely, I know) because I get nervous that he will maintain his effectiveness if he has to carry the ball more than 12 times per game.

His end of season numbers last year were fine if you drafted him in the 7th round (or later) but they were a big disappointment for where he was typically drafted (4.02 in my 12 team league).

Agree.

Sometimes you just see these guys and you KNOW (or feel strongly convinced) that it simply isn't going to all go as planned for this guy. Ellington is one of those guys.

He reminds me of another guy that I just could never get on board with and trust and draft as high as his average suggested-CJ Spiller.

Ellington is one of these guys that you can totally see being a dynamic FF difference-making guy...but not on this team, not the way he is used, not in the traditional roles of what people expect. He needs to be on a really good team that features him in space. He needs to be Darren Sproles in New Orleans 3 years ago. But he's not and so you can't get the FF production you want because they will never run him enough to keep him consistent and if they do, he might not hold up.

But in the right place at the right time, he could be great...like Spiller in New Orelans this year. I finally believe he is going to have a nice season for once but its not about talent, etc, its about the opportunity and the talent around him.

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Rotoworld:

Andre Ellington is dealing with a "tight" hamstring.

It's obviously not a major issue, but a reminder of Ellington's fragility, and the absurdity of coach Bruce Arians' claim that Ellington will handle 20 weekly touches this season. Ellington simply isn't durable enough to be a full-time back, and the sooner the Cardinals realize as such, the better.

Source: Kent Somers on Twitter

Aug 3 - 2:16 PM

Lol he's already hurt?

As is David Johnson.

"ARI - David Johnson injured - Mon Aug 3, 02:16 PM

Arizona Cardinals RB David Johnson (hamstring) is considered day-to-day with a hamstring injury.

Footballguys view: Johnson is not a burner, but he does have great short-area quickness. This hamstring injury should slow him down for a few days. No word on the severity of the injury."

Shark move = Stepfan Taylor (j/k)

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I am not sure I get the Roto hate in here. Do people really think it is a stretch to suggest that Ellington may be miscast as a true feature back? I think he is fun to watch and incredibly dangerous with the ball in his hands and I also think he is probably a good value in redrafts right now. But IMO if he is going to live up to punishment of 20+ touches/game he will probably have to average about 8 catches/game (extraordinarily unlikely, I know) because I get nervous that he will maintain his effectiveness if he has to carry the ball more than 12 times per game.

His end of season numbers last year were fine if you drafted him in the 7th round (or later) but they were a big disappointment for where he was typically drafted (4.02 in my 12 team league).

Agree.

Sometimes you just see these guys and you KNOW (or feel strongly convinced) that it simply isn't going to all go as planned for this guy. Ellington is one of those guys.

He reminds me of another guy that I just could never get on board with and trust and draft as high as his average suggested-CJ Spiller.

Ellington is one of these guys that you can totally see being a dynamic FF difference-making guy...but not on this team, not the way he is used, not in the traditional roles of what people expect. He needs to be on a really good team that features him in space. He needs to be Darren Sproles in New Orleans 3 years ago. But he's not and so you can't get the FF production you want because they will never run him enough to keep him consistent and if they do, he might not hold up.

But in the right place at the right time, he could be great...like Spiller in New Orelans this year. I finally believe he is going to have a nice season for once but its not about talent, etc, its about the opportunity and the talent around him.

Mostly agree though I was high on Spiller 2 summers ago. Ironically these two were quite a tandem at Clemson.

I do think Ellington could offer some relative value at his current ADP but I don't think he's a true feature RB and his production/durability will ultimately suffer if AZ continues efforts to use him as one.

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I am not sure I get the Roto hate in here. Do people really think it is a stretch to suggest that Ellington may be miscast as a true feature back? I think he is fun to watch and incredibly dangerous with the ball in his hands and I also think he is probably a good value in redrafts right now. But IMO if he is going to live up to punishment of 20+ touches/game he will probably have to average about 8 catches/game (extraordinarily unlikely, I know) because I get nervous that he will maintain his effectiveness if he has to carry the ball more than 12 times per game.

His end of season numbers last year were fine if you drafted him in the 7th round (or later) but they were a big disappointment for where he was typically drafted (4.02 in my 12 team league).

I beg to differ, kind sir... The RW biases are plain sad and obvious. The reported news was "Arians to give Ellington 20 touches". How do you get from that specific piece of news to the analytical conclusion that was published? Let's leave aside the post's absurd tone of "Arians / the Cardinals are idiots and I obviously know better, so I am going to write the exact opposite of their stated view".

For the record, I don't think Ellington will handle more than 10 carries and 5 receptions, though I expect him to be quite productive with those few touches.

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This latest Rotoworld blurb breaks the scale of bias. It's sad to watch how a once excellent news outlet has descended into promoting the FF interests of whichever random writer is writing the 'analysis'...and I think this all started when it was bought by NBC. Yuck...I have long moved to getting my news from the FBG news ticker. At least I get random different biases there.

On this one, Arians says Ellington will get 20 touches, with a particular emphasis on receptions. Somehow, the writer - most likely a David Johnson owner, suffering from rookie fever? - manages to interpret this as: "You see, Ellington had a low ypc last year, and he broke down, and the Cardinals are totally incompetent to think of him as a lead back, and it's David Johnson that is really the stud here and he so much bigger and better than Ellington."

Huh? Johnson hasn't played a down in the NFL. His head coach seems determined to feature Ellington in a receiving role, not him. The proper analysis here is something like "If he manages to stay health, Ellington might represent a real steal in PPR simply because of receiving volume."

What part of his statement is untrue?

Rookie David Johnson will make his case for a backfield role in preseason games. Johnson is essentially a bigger, more athletic version of Ellington with arguably even more-dynamic pass-catching ability.

Johnson is clearly bigger.

He is more athletic, by whatever objective measurable you want to use.

As a former WR, he is arguably a better receiver.

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Agreed. David Johnson is just unproven. Where as Ellington has proven he can excel if you limit his touches.

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I am not sure I get the Roto hate in here. Do people really think it is a stretch to suggest that Ellington may be miscast as a true feature back? I think he is fun to watch and incredibly dangerous with the ball in his hands and I also think he is probably a good value in redrafts right now. But IMO if he is going to live up to punishment of 20+ touches/game he will probably have to average about 8 catches/game (extraordinarily unlikely, I know) because I get nervous that he will maintain his effectiveness if he has to carry the ball more than 12 times per game.

His end of season numbers last year were fine if you drafted him in the 7th round (or later) but they were a big disappointment for where he was typically drafted (4.02 in my 12 team league).

I beg to differ, kind sir... The RW biases are plain sad and obvious. The reported news was "Arians to give Ellington 20 touches". How do you get from that specific piece of news to the analytical conclusion that was published? Let's leave aside the post's absurd tone of "Arians / the Cardinals are idiots and I obviously know better, so I am going to write the exact opposite of their stated view".

For the record, I don't think Ellington will handle more than 10 carries and 5 receptions, though I expect him to be quite productive with those few touches.

So you agree with their conclusion that Ellington won't get 20 touches but you think they are biased?

What is so wrong with saying that Ellington's 3.3 ypc was "anemic", he is miscast as a feature back (something it sounds like you may agree with) and that David Johnson will make a case for more touches? That all seems pretty spot on.

Is it that you just don't like their tone? I agree, they should be more professional but I don't think the conclusions are outrageous at all.

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What is so wrong with saying that Ellington's 3.3 ypc was "anemic", he is miscast as a feature back (something it sounds like you may agree with) and that David Johnson will make a case for more touches? That all seems pretty spot on.

Is it that you just don't like their tone? I agree, they should be more professional but I don't think the conclusions are outrageous at all.

It's that this is a particularly egregious example of something I've also seen here at FBGs. They get locked into their particular analysis to the point of copy-pasting it in whether the specific news in question supports or contradicts the conclusion.

Roto is highly invested, it appears, in its prediction that Ellington will be displaced by Johnson. To stand by that is fine, but to attach that to a news item the content of which points in the exact opposite direction SHOULD be accompanied by some kind of acknowledgement thereof.

If, for instance, they had said "Despite this statement from Arians, we aren't convinced that Ellington will hold up to such a heavy workload. Johnson is bigger, more athletic and better able to survive the workload Arians invisions" I doubt we'd be having this side conversation at all. When they don't even notice that the news contradicts their conclusion, they look like they are either sloppy or highly arrogant.

Edited by Arodin
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What is so wrong with saying that Ellington's 3.3 ypc was "anemic", he is miscast as a feature back (something it sounds like you may agree with) and that David Johnson will make a case for more touches? That all seems pretty spot on.

Is it that you just don't like their tone? I agree, they should be more professional but I don't think the conclusions are outrageous at all.

It's that this is a particularly egregious example of something I've also seen here at FBGs. They get locked into their particular analysis to the point of copy-pasting it in whether the specific news in question supports or contradicts the conclusion.

Roto is highly invested, it appears, in its prediction that Ellington will be displaced by Johnson. To stand by that is fine, but to attach that to a news item the content of which points in the exact opposite direction SHOULD be accompanied by some kind of acknowledgement thereof.

If, for instance, they had said "Despite this statement from Arians, we aren't convinced that Ellington will hold up to such a heavy workload. Johnson is bigger, more athletic and better able to survive the workload Arians invisions" I doubt we'd be having this side conversation at all. When they don't even notice that the news contradicts their conclusion, they look like they are either sloppy or highly arrogant.

Again, so what? Where is the benefit in being locked into a position of a player? Do they make more money somehow?

I honestly think their opinion, which is how it is presented, is pretty much echoed by the vast majority of people who saw that report. I know I agree with it (although I am not sold on Johnson but he's there only other real option).

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I am not sure I get the Roto hate in here. Do people really think it is a stretch to suggest that Ellington may be miscast as a true feature back? I think he is fun to watch and incredibly dangerous with the ball in his hands and I also think he is probably a good value in redrafts right now. But IMO if he is going to live up to punishment of 20+ touches/game he will probably have to average about 8 catches/game (extraordinarily unlikely, I know) because I get nervous that he will maintain his effectiveness if he has to carry the ball more than 12 times per game.

His end of season numbers last year were fine if you drafted him in the 7th round (or later) but they were a big disappointment for where he was typically drafted (4.02 in my 12 team league).

I beg to differ, kind sir... The RW biases are plain sad and obvious. The reported news was "Arians to give Ellington 20 touches". How do you get from that specific piece of news to the analytical conclusion that was published? Let's leave aside the post's absurd tone of "Arians / the Cardinals are idiots and I obviously know better, so I am going to write the exact opposite of their stated view".

For the record, I don't think Ellington will handle more than 10 carries and 5 receptions, though I expect him to be quite productive with those few touches.

So you agree with their conclusion that Ellington won't get 20 touches but you think they are biased?

What is so wrong with saying that Ellington's 3.3 ypc was "anemic", he is miscast as a feature back (something it sounds like you may agree with) and that David Johnson will make a case for more touches? That all seems pretty spot on.

Is it that you just don't like their tone? I agree, they should be more professional but I don't think the conclusions are outrageous at all.

I think Arodin has captured the argument well. It is not about whether you believe RW is correct about Ellington - that is subjective. It's also not about whether RW should stand by their analysis or somehow adapt it based on the news - this is also subjective.

It's about reporting news and then blindly dumping on top a standard and strong bias - even if it directly contradicts the reported news. That type of post would be immediately called out even on this boards, no? So I am surprised that RW's standards have fallen so much in the last 5 years.

Also, very pragmatically, I suspect this type of blind favoritism actually costs clicks. Already last season I was tired of reading the same 'analysis' without regard for actual content, and moved to the FBG RSS feed where the actual news stand out a lot more. I know quite a few leaguemates in different leagues who have done the same. From RW's perspective, probably a drop in the ocean compared to the mass in-season audiences, but still a trend that can cost you in June and July.

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Agreed. David Johnson is just unproven. Where as Ellington has proven he can excel if you limit his touches.

That is not proven. Ellington hurt his foot before the season started last year. We have never seen a healthy Ellington been given a full workload.

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I am not sure I get the Roto hate in here. Do people really think it is a stretch to suggest that Ellington may be miscast as a true feature back? I think he is fun to watch and incredibly dangerous with the ball in his hands and I also think he is probably a good value in redrafts right now. But IMO if he is going to live up to punishment of 20+ touches/game he will probably have to average about 8 catches/game (extraordinarily unlikely, I know) because I get nervous that he will maintain his effectiveness if he has to carry the ball more than 12 times per game.

His end of season numbers last year were fine if you drafted him in the 7th round (or later) but they were a big disappointment for where he was typically drafted (4.02 in my 12 team league).

I beg to differ, kind sir... The RW biases are plain sad and obvious. The reported news was "Arians to give Ellington 20 touches". How do you get from that specific piece of news to the analytical conclusion that was published? Let's leave aside the post's absurd tone of "Arians / the Cardinals are idiots and I obviously know better, so I am going to write the exact opposite of their stated view".

For the record, I don't think Ellington will handle more than 10 carries and 5 receptions, though I expect him to be quite productive with those few touches.

So you agree with their conclusion that Ellington won't get 20 touches but you think they are biased?

What is so wrong with saying that Ellington's 3.3 ypc was "anemic", he is miscast as a feature back (something it sounds like you may agree with) and that David Johnson will make a case for more touches? That all seems pretty spot on.

Is it that you just don't like their tone? I agree, they should be more professional but I don't think the conclusions are outrageous at all.

I think Arodin has captured the argument well. It is not about whether you believe RW is correct about Ellington - that is subjective. It's also not about whether RW should stand by their analysis or somehow adapt it based on the news - this is also subjective.

It's about reporting news and then blindly dumping on top a standard and strong bias - even if it directly contradicts the reported news. That type of post would be immediately called out even on this boards, no? So I am surprised that RW's standards have fallen so much in the last 5 years.

Also, very pragmatically, I suspect this type of blind favoritism actually costs clicks. Already last season I was tired of reading the same 'analysis' without regard for actual content, and moved to the FBG RSS feed where the actual news stand out a lot more. I know quite a few leaguemates in different leagues who have done the same. From RW's perspective, probably a drop in the ocean compared to the mass in-season audiences, but still a trend that can cost you in June and July.

I believe that is likely.

I know, for myself, my clicks on Roto are much less. I still use them for being solid on getting injury or changing news out there quickly with a source but I stopped long ago diving deeper into their posts or looking at additional info.

Edited by Shutout

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Rotoworld:

Andre Ellington (hamstring) returned to Cardinals practice Monday.

He missed a little less than a week. Based on its algorithm, the Sports Injury Predictor has pegged Ellington as this year's NFL running back most likely to get injured. You can get more data from the Sports Injury Predictor inside the Rotoworld Fantasy Football Draft Guide, accessible at the link below.
Aug 10 - 4:40 PM

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