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Smack Tripper

PBS Frontline : The Retirement Gamble, sorta Must See

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It's like the rake in poker.

Actively managed funds cost more than index funds. More than the difference a money manager makes.

You can't beat the rake.

Edited by 17seconds

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That is the point of this piece. Financial planners are not on your side. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't save money, it means you shouldn't trust the financial industry to do anything but screw you over.

Ignorant, stereotypical comment.

:lmao:

Laugh all you want. My parents reality is they were both working and trying to raise 3 kids. They did what people do, they get a "professional" to help out. I don't think he really screwed them I think it's just the way things go sometimes. The universe doesn't give a tinkers damn about your plans or what book you read. And as someone mentioned the closer you get to the end of the plan the more it is like timing the market. "Oh should I stay in this one more year or should I get into something safe? I haven't made my magical number yet". Etc.

I love all the people here who are so sure in their plans. My parents were. I hope it works out for everyone better than it did them. My money is on it not going that way though for an awful lot of them.

Nobody is laughing at your parents, dude.

I know. I assumed you were laughing about his reply on financial planners. I was kind of covering why they are important to people and why people rely on their judgement. I don't hold you in such low regard to think you were laughing at my parents.

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But I've got a sweet truck, and a boat.

When you do the math (when do I want to retire, how long do I expect to live, what expenses will I have, what income will I have, what other resources do I have), it gets really scary, yet people still go out and buy the shiny new toy instead. As a result, there are going to be considerably more elderly people working than in prior generations.

Here's the thing you have no idea what is going to be happening 10,20, 30 years from now. My parents did everything right. They didn't take vacations, they didn't buy fancy new cars, they scrimped and saved. All while tut tutting their friends who did the opposite. I'd say "you know you guys can have a little fun" and they'd say "oh no we need to be ready to retire then we'll have fun" and then the universe stepped in. They got creamed twice in market downturns that eviscerated their accounts when they haad no time left to really fund them back up. Now they get to live a little better than someone just on SS but not much. And they didn't get to enjoy their lives when they were younger. Sometimes the ant and the grasshopper both end up in the same place.

Did they panic and pull their money out at the low point? If they just rode it out and kept plodding away they'd be more than whole right now.

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But I've got a sweet truck, and a boat.

When you do the math (when do I want to retire, how long do I expect to live, what expenses will I have, what income will I have, what other resources do I have), it gets really scary, yet people still go out and buy the shiny new toy instead. As a result, there are going to be considerably more elderly people working than in prior generations.

Here's the thing you have no idea what is going to be happening 10,20, 30 years from now. My parents did everything right. They didn't take vacations, they didn't buy fancy new cars, they scrimped and saved. All while tut tutting their friends who did the opposite. I'd say "you know you guys can have a little fun" and they'd say "oh no we need to be ready to retire then we'll have fun" and then the universe stepped in. They got creamed twice in market downturns that eviscerated their accounts when they haad no time left to really fund them back up. Now they get to live a little better than someone just on SS but not much. And they didn't get to enjoy their lives when they were younger. Sometimes the ant and the grasshopper both end up in the same place.

i've read the story of your parents before in another thread.

that's a bad beat.

I can only wonder why they were in stock funds still if they were so close to retirement..

I took this story to heart the first time i read it though and have definitely realized there is a balance to be had in life between saving and spending (albeit heaving tilted towards savings in my case).

I mean, in addition to market risk.. there's always a ton of life risk to delaying gratification.

After all, any one of us could "check out" on the drive home tonight.. let alone be in good enough physical condition to enjoy anything later in life.

I have no problem with people who choose to live it up in their 20's 30's and 40's while they are young and healthy while not saving a dime.. just as long as i never have to hear their boo-hoo story when they reach retirement broke and have to live out their remaining years in terrible, cheap senior health care facilities when they are broke retirees.

Life's about choices... but people who choose not to save, not to learn to invest well, or who take on extraordinary risk should be allowed to suffer their consequences as well.

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But I've got a sweet truck, and a boat.

When you do the math (when do I want to retire, how long do I expect to live, what expenses will I have, what income will I have, what other resources do I have), it gets really scary, yet people still go out and buy the shiny new toy instead. As a result, there are going to be considerably more elderly people working than in prior generations.

Here's the thing you have no idea what is going to be happening 10,20, 30 years from now. My parents did everything right. They didn't take vacations, they didn't buy fancy new cars, they scrimped and saved. All while tut tutting their friends who did the opposite. I'd say "you know you guys can have a little fun" and they'd say "oh no we need to be ready to retire then we'll have fun" and then the universe stepped in. They got creamed twice in market downturns that eviscerated their accounts when they haad no time left to really fund them back up. Now they get to live a little better than someone just on SS but not much. And they didn't get to enjoy their lives when they were younger. Sometimes the ant and the grasshopper both end up in the same place.

Did they panic and pull their money out at the low point? If they just rode it out and kept plodding away they'd be more than whole right now.

this.

i would like to hear more of the story.. i mean it seems like a classic combination of bad decisions: Too much risk at too high of an age and selling low.. . but there's always more to every story

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I want to go buy a boat.

nothing will cost you more in life other than a jet or a mistress.

remember that if it flies, floats, or fornicates, you're better off renting. (proud boat owner here)

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But I've got a sweet truck, and a boat.

When you do the math (when do I want to retire, how long do I expect to live, what expenses will I have, what income will I have, what other resources do I have), it gets really scary, yet people still go out and buy the shiny new toy instead. As a result, there are going to be considerably more elderly people working than in prior generations.

Here's the thing you have no idea what is going to be happening 10,20, 30 years from now. My parents did everything right. They didn't take vacations, they didn't buy fancy new cars, they scrimped and saved. All while tut tutting their friends who did the opposite. I'd say "you know you guys can have a little fun" and they'd say "oh no we need to be ready to retire then we'll have fun" and then the universe stepped in. They got creamed twice in market downturns that eviscerated their accounts when they haad no time left to really fund them back up. Now they get to live a little better than someone just on SS but not much. And they didn't get to enjoy their lives when they were younger. Sometimes the ant and the grasshopper both end up in the same place.

Bingo.

Just like everything else in life, there's a fine balance between the two. Both extremes are being depicted here to make points. The answer lies somewhere in between.

Sure but see my parents didn't make a 100K. They worked their asses off and some "professional" was telling them they'd have to be very,very cautious and spend no money just to make sure the adviser would have a chance to retire comfortably. And where did it get them? Nowhere really but a life of always getting ready for down the road when the only thing down the road for them was more of the same. And they were hardly alone.

Now I am not saying you shouldn't save. I'm not saying you shouldn't try to prepare. I am saying that maybe the occasional toy or fancy trip isn't that bad because the reality is you could do everything right and still end up with a lousy situation.

This happened to my grandparents as well. Saved and saved and saved, worked their butts off all of their lives. Financial planner sold them on some "exciting products to enhance their upcoming retirement" instead of putting them into low risk target funds/bonds/what have you. I would bet the house they were swindled into products the adviser was getting huge commissions on selling for his firm, with little regard for my grandparents' trust in the adviser that he was doing right by them.

Truly sickening.

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But I've got a sweet truck, and a boat.

When you do the math (when do I want to retire, how long do I expect to live, what expenses will I have, what income will I have, what other resources do I have), it gets really scary, yet people still go out and buy the shiny new toy instead. As a result, there are going to be considerably more elderly people working than in prior generations.

Here's the thing you have no idea what is going to be happening 10,20, 30 years from now. My parents did everything right. They didn't take vacations, they didn't buy fancy new cars, they scrimped and saved. All while tut tutting their friends who did the opposite. I'd say "you know you guys can have a little fun" and they'd say "oh no we need to be ready to retire then we'll have fun" and then the universe stepped in. They got creamed twice in market downturns that eviscerated their accounts when they haad no time left to really fund them back up. Now they get to live a little better than someone just on SS but not much. And they didn't get to enjoy their lives when they were younger. Sometimes the ant and the grasshopper both end up in the same place.

Bingo.

Just like everything else in life, there's a fine balance between the two. Both extremes are being depicted here to make points. The answer lies somewhere in between.

Sure but see my parents didn't make a 100K. They worked their asses off and some "professional" was telling them they'd have to be very,very cautious and spend no money just to make sure the adviser would have a chance to retire comfortably. And where did it get them? Nowhere really but a life of always getting ready for down the road when the only thing down the road for them was more of the same. And they were hardly alone.

Now I am not saying you shouldn't save. I'm not saying you shouldn't try to prepare. I am saying that maybe the occasional toy or fancy trip isn't that bad because the reality is you could do everything right and still end up with a lousy situation.

This happened to my grandparents as well. Saved and saved and saved, worked their butts off all of their lives. Financial planner sold them on some "exciting products to enhance their upcoming retirement" instead of putting them into low risk target funds/bonds/what have you. I would bet the house they were swindled into products the adviser was getting huge commissions on selling for his firm, with little regard for my grandparents' trust in the adviser that he was doing right by them.

Truly sickening.

tons of scams right now going to with the elderly because they can't get their 5% in their CD's and treasuries anymore.

people are starved for yield....

so there's 2 results:

1) guys who go out, get the knowledge and actually make some sound investments (like my grandfather has done with preferred and dividend bearing stocks).

2) people that throw up their arms in stupidity, get suckered into some horrible annuity or god knows what other type of scam... and cry later.

There's a special place in hell for these people profiting off the mental weakness of the elderly.

I"m sure their motto is: "A fool and his money are soon parted" :vomit:

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I dislike people who make a living collecting fees for moving money around more than anybody, even lawyers.

Good to know.

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I want to go buy a boat.

nothing will cost you more in life other than a jet or a mistress. remember that if it flies, floats, or fornicates, you're better off renting. (proud boat owner here)
And married guy. You f'n hypocrite.

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But I've got a sweet truck, and a boat.

When you do the math (when do I want to retire, how long do I expect to live, what expenses will I have, what income will I have, what other resources do I have), it gets really scary, yet people still go out and buy the shiny new toy instead. As a result, there are going to be considerably more elderly people working than in prior generations.

Here's the thing you have no idea what is going to be happening 10,20, 30 years from now. My parents did everything right. They didn't take vacations, they didn't buy fancy new cars, they scrimped and saved. All while tut tutting their friends who did the opposite. I'd say "you know you guys can have a little fun" and they'd say "oh no we need to be ready to retire then we'll have fun" and then the universe stepped in. They got creamed twice in market downturns that eviscerated their accounts when they haad no time left to really fund them back up. Now they get to live a little better than someone just on SS but not much. And they didn't get to enjoy their lives when they were younger. Sometimes the ant and the grasshopper both end up in the same place.

Did they panic and pull their money out at the low point? If they just rode it out and kept plodding away they'd be more than whole right now.

this.

i would like to hear more of the story.. i mean it seems like a classic combination of bad decisions: Too much risk at too high of an age and selling low.. . but there's always more to every story

No they didn't pull out after the first time. If they had before the second time they might have been better off.

And you guys are viewing this through the prism of what has happened the last coupe of years. They were on the fast track to retirement right when the next big wave hit. I don't know all the details as I haven't pushed for them but it was already over for them at that point. There were no more working days left. My father was a lineman, that is very physical work and you don't do it until you are 70. My mom was already out of the work force. Dentist put it best, it was a bad beat. Just some bad luck with some bad timing. Given another 6 months they probably get out with a trim instead of a serious haircut and life sucks a lot less.

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My retirement plan is just my 401K and to have some rental properties (that are owned fully). I have 2 rentals already (but they're not paid off for another 20 years...). 100K+ in the 401K. I assume I'll do okay in retirement. Owning things that generate a constant income stream is completely overlooked by most retirement professionals and I have no idea why.

ETA: Currently 36

Edited by (HULK)

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My retirement plan is just my 401K and to have some rental properties (that are owned fully). I have 2 rentals already (but they're not paid off for another 20 years...). 100K+ in the 401K. I assume I'll do okay in retirement. Owning things that generate a constant income stream is completely overlooked by most retirement professionals and I have no idea why.ETA: Currently 36

They can't generate management fee revenue on something they can't sell you, so of course that wouldn't be a suggestion they're going to bring up to you if you sit down with them.

Investment advisers don't advise people as a goodwill gesture. It costs money, and the fees come from the buyer of the fund selections somehow/someway.

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I want to go buy a boat.

nothing will cost you more in life other than a jet or a mistress. remember that if it flies, floats, or fornicates, you're better off renting. (proud boat owner here)
And married guy. You f'n hypocrite.

might as well get a pilot's license too

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If we are going to site worst case scenarios, then we should allow equal time. My parents retired a few years ago as well. They raised a family of 5 and I know there were times when I questioned how they were (not) spending money. They never bought a new car as long as I lived with them. (still have only bought 1 new car ever). They took no major trips, other than the long weekend at an amusement park with the kids. Now, my dad is the true life McGyver, he could fix just about anything we owned. So, we got full use out of everything in our house. My parents are now looking for ways to spend/reinvest their money. They have more than their lifestyle could ever need. My parents used two different investors over the past 25 years. One was a friend at the local bank where my Mom worked. The other was an adviser that my Grandfather uses. (My Grandfather just turned 96, and has been in assisted living for the past 8 years. He still has more money than he will need for the rest of his life. He spent his entire life as a union carpenter. My Grandmother never worked.. They saved and got smart investment advice. On the flip side, my in-laws have spent a good portion of their life spending as much as they made every month. They do have 2 rental homes, (but also two mortgages) They have a condo (also mortgaged) in Branson and a time share in Florida. They both had very good jobs. In the matter of 5 years, my father in law got a DUI that cost him his license and his job. My mother in law had a stroke that forced her to retire 5 years early. They are now struggling to get by. They refuses to make the smart decision to sell some of the "extras" so that they can live stress free the rest of their life.

Edited by KCitons

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My retirement plan is just my 401K and to have some rental properties (that are owned fully). I have 2 rentals already (but they're not paid off for another 20 years...). 100K+ in the 401K. I assume I'll do okay in retirement. Owning things that generate a constant income stream is completely overlooked by most retirement professionals and I have no idea why.ETA: Currently 36

Other income sources like real estate is a great answer to this problem.

I hope you are being sarcastic with the bolded.

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My retirement plan is just my 401K and to have some rental properties (that are owned fully). I have 2 rentals already (but they're not paid off for another 20 years...). 100K+ in the 401K. I assume I'll do okay in retirement. Owning things that generate a constant income stream is completely overlooked by most retirement professionals and I have no idea why.ETA: Currently 36

They can't generate management fee revenue on something they can't sell you, so of course that wouldn't be a suggestion they're going to bring up to you if you sit down with them. Investment advisers don't advise people as a goodwill gesture. It costs money, and the fees come from the buyer of the fund selections somehow/someway.
If you're paying them for advice, why wouldn't they give you good advice?

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Most Americans retire just about broke. The same 10% that make all the money typically have it best thru retirement. Exceptions along the way of course.

People with money also don't pop off about candy prices at drug stores.

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My retirement plan is just my 401K and to have some rental properties (that are owned fully). I have 2 rentals already (but they're not paid off for another 20 years...). 100K+ in the 401K. I assume I'll do okay in retirement. Owning things that generate a constant income stream is completely overlooked by most retirement professionals and I have no idea why.ETA: Currently 36

Other income sources like real estate is a great answer to this problem. I hope you are being sarcastic with the bolded.
Not really. I don't use any retirement advisors though. Why wouldn't they want their clients to make smart decisions. Diversifying a bit into real estate is good for the client, even if they don't collect $ on it.

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My retirement plan is just my 401K and to have some rental properties (that are owned fully). I have 2 rentals already (but they're not paid off for another 20 years...). 100K+ in the 401K. I assume I'll do okay in retirement. Owning things that generate a constant income stream is completely overlooked by most retirement professionals and I have no idea why.ETA: Currently 36

Other income sources like real estate is a great answer to this problem. I hope you are being sarcastic with the bolded.
Not really. I don't use any retirement advisors though. Why wouldn't they want their clients to make smart decisions. Diversifying a bit into real estate is good for the client, even if they don't collect $ on it.

Because most advisors do not have an obligation to work in the best interests of their clients. They are also financially incented to drive people to products that are more profitable for tthe advisors/their firm.

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If we are going to site worst case scenarios, then we should allow equal time. My parents retired a few years ago as well. They raised a family of 5 and I know there were times when I questioned how they were (not) spending money. They never bought a new car as long as I lived with them. (still have only bought 1 new car ever). They took no major trips, other than the long weekend at an amusement park with the kids. Now, my dad is the true life McGyver, he could fix just about anything we owned. So, we got full use out of everything in our house. My parents are now looking for ways to spend/reinvest their money. They have more than their lifestyle could ever need. My parents used two different investors over the past 25 years. One was a friend at the local bank where my Mom worked. The other was an adviser that my Grandfather uses. (My Grandfather just turned 96, and has been in assisted living for the past 8 years. He still has more money than he will need for the rest of his life. He spent his entire life as a union carpenter. My Grandmother never worked.. They saved and got smart investment advice. On the flip side, my in-laws have spent a good portion of their life spending as much as they made every month. They do have 2 rental homes, (but also two mortgages) They have a condo (also mortgaged) in Branson and a time share in Florida. They both had very good jobs. In the matter of 5 years, my father in law got a DUI that cost him his license and his job. My mother in law had a stroke that forced her to retire 5 years early. They are now struggling to get by. They refuses to make the smart decision to sell some of the "extras" so that they can live stress free the rest of their life.

thanks for sharing.

there's nothing wrong with not buying a new car ever..

Did your parents WANT to take major trips and didn't due to money? Or were they not really into such a thing?

As for your in-laws.. that's the more common story... spent everything they had... then can't even give it up when they have to... is your wife the same way.. is she a spender since that's what she grew up with?

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My retirement plan is just my 401K and to have some rental properties (that are owned fully). I have 2 rentals already (but they're not paid off for another 20 years...). 100K+ in the 401K. I assume I'll do okay in retirement. Owning things that generate a constant income stream is completely overlooked by most retirement professionals and I have no idea why.ETA: Currently 36

They can't generate management fee revenue on something they can't sell you, so of course that wouldn't be a suggestion they're going to bring up to you if you sit down with them. Investment advisers don't advise people as a goodwill gesture. It costs money, and the fees come from the buyer of the fund selections somehow/someway.
If you're paying them for advice, why wouldn't they give you good advice?

The same reason why you have to haggle on a car price. Car dealers don't care about the price that's right for your budget. They want to maximize profit for the dealership/their sales commission, and give you the asset (car) you already want at the same time. You reach a point where both sides are satisfied, you get a car and they get money.

You are entrusting an investment adviser with way more money that is involved in a car purchase, and are working with less information (I'd imagine in some cases) where you let them pick the investment vehicle(s) for you. Sure, there are other investments that might fit your needs better, but it might not be a fund(s) the parent company needs to up their asset basis & fee generating power with, so it's not going to be presented to you as a selection by the adviser. You're going to them to ultimately receive statements in the mail that show positive returns on the money that you give to them. If you went to them in the first place, you're probably not going to question how those returns were calculated (appreciation less fees). You're just going to be happy that the money you invested with them is growing. Meanwhile, I am reminded of the commercials where the investment adviser is cracking lobsters and drinking champagne on a yacht for lunch (think it was e-trade).

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My retirement plan is just my 401K and to have some rental properties (that are owned fully). I have 2 rentals already (but they're not paid off for another 20 years...). 100K+ in the 401K. I assume I'll do okay in retirement. Owning things that generate a constant income stream is completely overlooked by most retirement professionals and I have no idea why.ETA: Currently 36

Other income sources like real estate is a great answer to this problem. I hope you are being sarcastic with the bolded.
Not really. I don't use any retirement advisors though. Why wouldn't they want their clients to make smart decisions. Diversifying a bit into real estate is good for the client, even if they don't collect $ on it.

Because most advisors do not have an obligation to work in the best interests of their clients. They are also financially incented to drive people to products that are more profitable for tthe advisors/their firm.

Bingo.. they touched on this in the program.

If you want good advice that isn't sales driven you have to pay for a feduciary's time. It will probably be expensive since he only has his time to sell and not any products.

So people gravitate towards people giving the free advice and free "lunch and learns".

And they buy what those guys are selling without a thought of what that costs or how the guy giving the presentation is being compensated.

It's like those surveys where a huge% of people think their 401K costs them NOTHING because they don't have to cut a check for it... or how people think they are getting a phone FREE from their wireless carrier because they don't cut a check for it.

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If we are going to site worst case scenarios, then we should allow equal time. My parents retired a few years ago as well. They raised a family of 5 and I know there were times when I questioned how they were (not) spending money. They never bought a new car as long as I lived with them. (still have only bought 1 new car ever). They took no major trips, other than the long weekend at an amusement park with the kids. Now, my dad is the true life McGyver, he could fix just about anything we owned. So, we got full use out of everything in our house. My parents are now looking for ways to spend/reinvest their money. They have more than their lifestyle could ever need. My parents used two different investors over the past 25 years. One was a friend at the local bank where my Mom worked. The other was an adviser that my Grandfather uses. (My Grandfather just turned 96, and has been in assisted living for the past 8 years. He still has more money than he will need for the rest of his life. He spent his entire life as a union carpenter. My Grandmother never worked.. They saved and got smart investment advice. On the flip side, my in-laws have spent a good portion of their life spending as much as they made every month. They do have 2 rental homes, (but also two mortgages) They have a condo (also mortgaged) in Branson and a time share in Florida. They both had very good jobs. In the matter of 5 years, my father in law got a DUI that cost him his license and his job. My mother in law had a stroke that forced her to retire 5 years early. They are now struggling to get by. They refuses to make the smart decision to sell some of the "extras" so that they can live stress free the rest of their life.

thanks for sharing.

there's nothing wrong with not buying a new car ever..

Did your parents WANT to take major trips and didn't due to money? Or were they not really into such a thing?

As for your in-laws.. that's the more common story... spent everything they had... then can't even give it up when they have to... is your wife the same way.. is she a spender since that's what she grew up with?

It's actually pretty funny to hear my parents talk about finances during their marriage. Early on, my Dad established that he was a poor money manager. My Mom took over and put him on a weekly allowance. Of course, he bought stuff (cars, motorcycles, etc) to fix and sell for more $$. (so, he found ways to increase his allowance) But, my Dad agrees to this day, that they are better off because he didn't make many financial decisions.

My Mom wanted to take trips, but may Dad was happy with a $200 weekend fishing trip. (as with anyone, life was about choices) Since retirement, they take a couple of trips a year.

It took me 15-20 years of being an adult, before I started understanding money. I am guilty of owning boats, cars, cabins, etc. The only thing I want now, is piece of mind. My wife is very frugal. She always hated wasting money. Not really sure how we've made it 23 years.

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Most Americans retire just about broke. The same 10% that make all the money typically have it best thru retirement. Exceptions along the way of course.

People with money also don't pop off about candy prices at drug stores.
:lmao: Very true!

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My retirement plan is just my 401K and to have some rental properties (that are owned fully). I have 2 rentals already (but they're not paid off for another 20 years...). 100K+ in the 401K. I assume I'll do okay in retirement. Owning things that generate a constant income stream is completely overlooked by most retirement professionals and I have no idea why.ETA: Currently 36

Other income sources like real estate is a great answer to this problem. I hope you are being sarcastic with the bolded.
I agree. The more I think about retirement, the more I think about income replacement via real estate rentals could be a good idea if done right. Obviously the devil is in the details but I would feel more secure having a real asset doing some of the work for me.

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Dentist isn't wrong but man dude you drain my lifeforce. :sadbanana:

sorry bro. Not sure what i wrote that was life draining, but keep your chin up and living the good life. #yolo

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Dentist isn't wrong but man dude you drain my lifeforce. :sadbanana:

sorry bro. Not sure what i wrote that was life draining, but keep your chin up and living the good life. #yolo

I find it life draining you still think you have to work until age 62. Set your sights earlier man.

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Dentist isn't wrong but man dude you drain my lifeforce. :sadbanana:

sorry bro. Not sure what i wrote that was life draining, but keep your chin up and living the good life. #yolo

I find it life draining you still think you have to work until age 62. Set your sights earlier man.

That's the absolute ceiling, my friend.

it would be sweet if it were 55.

i will have put 32 years into filling teeth by the time i'm 55... that's a pretty full career.

Here's the rub though.. with dentistry almost everyone wants a dentist who's like 40-55.. experienced, but still in his prime.

everyone i talk to says things just get so much easier once you hit that age.. you're experienced as heck, you've got the gray hair necessary to get really solid treatment acceptance rates.. and by then you've generally developed a pretty stable patient base of people that you like and who like you (most of the people you don't get along with have gravitated elsewhere) that it becomes smoother, easier... more fun even.

So maybe i'm sitting there totally peaking at 55 and it's just too good to walk!

Or maybe Obamacare will infiltrate the industry and i'll wish i could retire at 45. who knows!

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Do you have the opportunity to work part time dentisting as you get older? Like 10-15 hours a week? Having some kind of profession that you could practice part time would be a huge advantage moving towards retirement, IMO.

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Dentist isn't wrong but man dude you drain my lifeforce. :sadbanana:

sorry bro. Not sure what i wrote that was life draining, but keep your chin up and living the good life. #yolo

I find it life draining you still think you have to work until age 62. Set your sights earlier man.

That's the absolute ceiling, my friend.

it would be sweet if it were 55.

i will have put 32 years into filling teeth by the time i'm 55... that's a pretty full career.

Here's the rub though.. with dentistry almost everyone wants a dentist who's like 40-55.. experienced, but still in his prime.

everyone i talk to says things just get so much easier once you hit that age.. you're experienced as heck, you've got the gray hair necessary to get really solid treatment acceptance rates.. and by then you've generally developed a pretty stable patient base of people that you like and who like you (most of the people you don't get along with have gravitated elsewhere) that it becomes smoother, easier... more fun even.

So maybe i'm sitting there totally peaking at 55 and it's just too good to walk!

Or maybe Obamacare will infiltrate the industry and i'll wish i could retire at 45. who knows!

Ah, I see. When you get to that age in my industry, you're either moving up or about to get ####canned.

I'm setting my sights on the underside of 40.

Biggest unknown is healthcare costs as my SO has a few chronic conditions. I hope Obamacare infiltrates the medical industry to the extent she doesn't have to work until 65 to keep coverage. Doubt it though, both parties love having insurance tied to employment.

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Most Americans retire just about broke. The same 10% that make all the money typically have it best thru retirement. Exceptions along the way of course.

People with money also don't pop off about candy prices at drug stores.

:lmao:

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Dentist isn't wrong but man dude you drain my lifeforce. :sadbanana:

sorry bro. Not sure what i wrote that was life draining, but keep your chin up and living the good life. #yolo

I find it life draining you still think you have to work until age 62. Set your sights earlier man.

That's the absolute ceiling, my friend.

it would be sweet if it were 55.

i will have put 32 years into filling teeth by the time i'm 55... that's a pretty full career.

Here's the rub though.. with dentistry almost everyone wants a dentist who's like 40-55.. experienced, but still in his prime.

everyone i talk to says things just get so much easier once you hit that age.. you're experienced as heck, you've got the gray hair necessary to get really solid treatment acceptance rates.. and by then you've generally developed a pretty stable patient base of people that you like and who like you (most of the people you don't get along with have gravitated elsewhere) that it becomes smoother, easier... more fun even.

So maybe i'm sitting there totally peaking at 55 and it's just too good to walk!

Or maybe Obamacare will infiltrate the industry and i'll wish i could retire at 45. who knows!

I'd love to see you win Powerball just to see if you'd remain fixated on saving for retirement.

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I'd love to see you win Powerball just to see if you'd remain fixated on saving for retirement.

thanks, i never knew you cared so much!

I don't really play though until it's +EV which is generally .. what over 200mil?

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I'd love to see you win Powerball just to see if you'd remain fixated on saving for retirement.

thanks, i never knew you cared so much!

I don't really play though until it's +EV which is generally .. what over 200mil?

As an aside, I don't get the -EV argument against playing the lottery. Especially for someone like you, who is financially grounded. The functional utility of, say, an $18 million jackpot is similar enough to a $200 million jackpot to make it worth it for you. That is, you're probably smart enough to make even half-after-taxes-from-$18m last the rest of your life without any worries, and have a pretty good quality of life at that. It's not like $200m prize opens so many more doors that it's not worth trying to win anything less.

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I'd love to see you win Powerball just to see if you'd remain fixated on saving for retirement.

thanks, i never knew you cared so much!

I don't really play though until it's +EV which is generally .. what over 200mil?

As an aside, I don't get the -EV argument against playing the lottery. Especially for someone like you, who is financially grounded. The functional utility of, say, an $18 million jackpot is similar enough to a $200 million jackpot to make it worth it for you. That is, you're probably smart enough to make even half-after-taxes-from-$18m last the rest of your life without any worries, and have a pretty good quality of life at that. It's not like $200m prize opens so many more doors that it's not worth trying to win anything less.

no question the 18 million would be plenty

I just don't want to play powerball regularly.. so playing it only when it's +EV makes it so that i'm not blowing stupid money on the lottery

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I was going over my wife's retirement plan. She works at a school with average income of 60k. With the min required to match 4%+4% match an 8% savings rate for 30 years won't even sniff enough money to retire on.

Then you have 50% of people that contribute 0 into any plan at all.

You want to talk about a financial crisis? This is it. You will have people that have made 100k-200k at the poverty level 10 years into retirement.

Huh? Won't even sniff at retirement putting away 4% over 30 years with a 4% match? Yeah, you won't be pushing a Benz when you're 75 but retirement is very doable at that level.

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Watched the PBS story. Nice little piece....nothing ground-breaking if you follow this stuff at all, but it was a pretty well-prepared documentary.

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For something so simple a retirement conversation is very complicated.

One couple may want to travel the world in retirement and another is happy to sit pool side in a modest house/condo in Florida or Arizona. Lifestyle is a big part of $$ you need.

Also the way you can go about saving for retirement can be different for everyone. I figure when I'm 50 I wont have as much saved as most financial planners would suggest. I do plan to have our house completely paid off, being totally debt free, and to send my daughter off to college with 4 years pre paid at a University. Others will choose to have more money saved but still have a mortgage, car loans or choose to help out with college payments.

I think the important thing is every now again you set some time aside and think about how tings are going and think about the road to retirement. Nobody wants to be the 50 year old that wakes up one morning with $70K in his 401K still rents and has a car payment.

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I was going over my wife's retirement plan. She works at a school with average income of 60k. With the min required to match 4%+4% match an 8% savings rate for 30 years won't even sniff enough money to retire on. Then you have 50% of people that contribute 0 into any plan at all. You want to talk about a financial crisis? This is it. You will have people that have made 100k-200k at the poverty level 10 years into retirement.

That is their own damn fault.
This. There's no excuse for someone with a six-figure income to be insecure in retirement other than personal irresponsibility.
Dangerous statement, without knowing the COL for their area. 100K in TN <> 100K in NYC.
Those people are choosing to do that though. They are sacrificing greater financial flexibility to purchase the amenity of a more desirable location.they are likely earning a higher income too.

Simplistic comment. I happened to be born in Southern California. This is where my family is. This is where my wife's family is. All of her sisters are here, and the families are very tight. Could I take my 6 figure income and save money by moving to Fargo? Sure. And what's wrong with a desirable location? You get one shot at life. We take one big family vacation every year. Not cheap, and I have 3 kids. Wouldn't change a thing. Amazing life experiences and memories, and we are closer than any family I know in part because of it. I am paying for all 3 of my kids undergrad degrees, with 2 at UCSB now. Dave Ramsey would probably have a heart attack on both fronts. I'm fine with it. I like live music, so I'll spend on concerts, sporting events, etc.

I've also had 2 close friends die of cancer at 50. There are no guarantees. You could be a miser and eat cold leftover oatmeal every day and recycle paper towels, have a lot of money in your bank account and keel over at any time.

That being said - it doesn't mean I'm reckless. I max out 401K's every year, and now that I'm 50 that's 25K a year or so. So do I feel secure about retirement. No. Not yet. Not even close. I haven't saved boatloads outside of the 401K. Got beat up in 2-3 different crashes. Returns have been measly. None of the rule of 72 or other BS projections given have panned out. I'm nowhere near done. I've got a 15 year note on my house at 2.75%, so unless I downsize that won't be totally paid off. Thank God the market in So Cal is red hot again so at least on paper I'll have big equity if I ever sell. No inheritance, matter of fact will be likely supporting my Mom in a few years. When the last one is out of college (yes, I did sock away good amounts in 529 plans) I'll double down on savings, and I'm really hoping that I hit it big with equity at work. So I could be done in a few years. But with cost of living here, healthcare costs in retirement, probability of lower SS payments for high wage earners down the road etc I'm not 100% confident of what my retirement will look like. Unless a medical condition forces bankruptcy I won't be eating Spam, but I don't know how comfortable I'll be. The projections of only being to draw 2-4% a year is pretty paltry.

Lots of dynamics. I grew up in poverty, so I like to enjoy the results of my hard work. And I do wish I was a better investor. But I do think there are a lot of guys in threads like this who happen to live in low cost areas (maybe they were born there too) and just can't believe that 6 figure guys with families aren't done by the time they are 45.

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Re: some of the comments in here about how people approaching retirement should be in bonds...it's certainly true that you should have a less volatile portfolio as you approach retirement, but it's not that simple anymore. People are living longer, even if you did a very good job saving for retirement, it's not easy to make those savings last 30 years if you're not getting some kind of capital gain.

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