FUBAR
Footballguy
You're using an "either/or" approach which is not the way we view these classes. The class helps him understand things we show and we reinforce the teaching.
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PBS Frontline : The Retirement Gamble, sorta Must See (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Smack Tripper
- Start date
NutterButter
Footballguy
Not sure how to enforce this, but I'd rather it be a post college class; maybe something that's offered by employers. I believe that some of the professional sports leagues do that. 8th grade seems way to early to me. I'm not sure what people have in mind for this class, but I'd think one thing would be talking about a 401k and specifically about investing in index funds to minimize fees. There's no way something like that would sink in when I was in the eight grade; probably not high school either.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Do you not realize how much a huge chunk of people have screwed themselves financially by the time they have finished college?
It would also be much better to teach things in a class and actually get graded. You are welcome to teach your kids more about this stuff and reinforce things. The point of this would be to cater to the huge masses of people who suck at finances so they don't hit age 25 in a massive hole.
Much like anything else, the earlier you learn the better. And this one is rather important. One small thing they learn at age 13 could literally be a hundred grand difference for them by the time they retire.
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ghostguy123
Footballguy
And if you are talking about stuff like index funds and whatnot to 12 year old kids, you are doing it wrong.
Teach simple things. Credit card interest might be a big one. Discussing student loans and their impact on the rest of you life is another huge one to teach high school kids, and teach them often.
Other basic ways to earn and save money.
The earlier you start this kind of stuff, the earlier people will grasp the concept of retirement planning.
Teach simple things. Credit card interest might be a big one. Discussing student loans and their impact on the rest of you life is another huge one to teach high school kids, and teach them often.
Other basic ways to earn and save money.
The earlier you start this kind of stuff, the earlier people will grasp the concept of retirement planning.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Agreed. If the kids can understand algebra and other basic concepts they can get enough from the class to make it worthwhile. There should be more classes later in life but at that point the burden should be on the individual to take the initiative to learn. And it doesn't have to be a formal class at that point.
NutterButter
Footballguy
That's a good point. I assume you're talking about credit card debt in college. I'd like to see a statistic on that. Or are you referring to a much larger problem of tuition debt? Why do we even allow college kids to have a credit card? You have no job, but here's 12k in virtual money for you to spend. Seems predatory to me. We can save the investing part of the course then for post college.
NutterButter
Footballguy
Ok, those are some good things. Save the investing topics for post college. I wasn't thinking about college at 12 so might be a tad young for talking about college debt or credit cards.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I am talking about anything and everything related to finances. It's all tied together. If you are going to be responsible and knowledgeable in one aspect of finances, I would say you would be more likely to be responsible and knowledgeable in other areas as well, or at least more likely to try to learn about the other areas as time goes on.
Basically, the earlier someone learns about the value of money, the better. Compoundingly better.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I graduated college and starting working when I was 24(36 now). I knew absolutely ZILCH about real world finances at that point. Not because I was stupid, not because I was irresponsible with money, and not because I didn't value money. It was because I was literally never exposed to ANY sort of retirement education. None. Not one time in school at any level. I mean, I can take a freaking calculus class but not learn one tiny tidbit about retirement planning? Which seems more important to you? My parents were ok with money, but there was no discussion of retirement growing up, and I imagine this is the case in a huge majority of households.
Had I been exposed to this stuff earlier I might (probably would) have started maxing out my 403b from day 1 instead of several years later. I spent like 7 years putting in 6% to get the full company match. I guess that is better than most, but had I read that damn Boggleheads book when I was 23 I would have started maxing out the 403b like 9 years earlier than I actually did, and I would likely be able to retire about 10 years earlier than I will be now.
Simply put, I wasn't exposed to retirement planning until I hit my 30s which was 15+ years later than I should have been
Had I been exposed to this stuff earlier I might (probably would) have started maxing out my 403b from day 1 instead of several years later. I spent like 7 years putting in 6% to get the full company match. I guess that is better than most, but had I read that damn Boggleheads book when I was 23 I would have started maxing out the 403b like 9 years earlier than I actually did, and I would likely be able to retire about 10 years earlier than I will be now.
Simply put, I wasn't exposed to retirement planning until I hit my 30s which was 15+ years later than I should have been
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KCitons
Footballguy
It's not a bad idea to build credit during college, it just needs to be handled responsibly. It's fairly difficult to function in life without a credit card. It would be pointless to spend 4 years earning a degree, only to be unable to purchase airfare or rental car to pursue a job.
NutterButter
Footballguy
Ok, I'm going back to making this an elective. Some of the stuff that's been mentioned I hammer into my kids heads whenever they get money or look to spend money. I'll certainly be repeatedly going over basic investing which is all that it needs to be and other topics as they become more appropriate.
FUBAR
Footballguy
I just tell my oldest two (the two older than 8) what we do and why we do it. Often they don't appear interested but I hope it's sinking in.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, bit its pretty clear you are naive as to the way kids learn.
Also, as stated, most parents dont know jack about finances so they cant teach their kids.
Financial learning in schools would be for the greater good. Sorry if it would not be exactly what you think little Billy needs.
matuski
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Yeah, why get angry about having to work full time for an extra decade. Silly me.
matuski
Footballguy
Because your parents taught you about money and had financial education electives??
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Tom Hagen
Footballguy
Your kids may not need it but the big picture is that most parents are unable or unwilling to teach basic personal finance. Making it a required course ensures that all kids are at least taught how to reconcile a bank account and the long term cost of credit card and other consumer debt. Many people don't even understand that a tax refund results from them having too much tax withheld so a very basic income tax lesson would be helpful also.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
matuski
Footballguy
KCitons
Footballguy
Comparing the ability of the public schools vs parents when it comes to teaching kids about real life is a joke. The schools systems don't always choose curriculum based on what's best for the individual student. Most of the time, a parent will have the child's best interest at heart when it comes to teaching.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
The amount of people who don't know basic personal finance is pathetic. Sure, you may teach it but vast majority of people are not getting taught. Even more so amongst the poor. My personal view is that the single best thing to help even the playing field for the poor in general is to teach personal finance universally.
FUBAR
Footballguy
It would be largely beneficial if schools gave extra credit when the parents got involved in these classes. Of course, most parents who get involved may not need it but some would benefit.
Either you overestimate most parents time, willingness and competency or I underestimate the same.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Chadstroma
Footballguy
NutterButter
Footballguy
There's no one in this thread who's kids should need a class. We all have the knowledge. Now pass that knowledge along to your kids like you would everything else you're teaching them. There's a lot of parents that don't have the knowledge or desire. That's not us.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
correct..........................but dude, cmon. Sounds pretty insane to be AGAINST educating people about finances.
Gawain
Footballguy
Last thing I read stated that you should have your kids set up with their own online brokerage account by 13.
As crazy as it sounds, it's probably not that bad an idea to teach them a little about the market. I remember those fake money lessons in the market when I was in school. It's probably a little different if the kid has some sort of actual stake.
As crazy as it sounds, it's probably not that bad an idea to teach them a little about the market. I remember those fake money lessons in the market when I was in school. It's probably a little different if the kid has some sort of actual stake.
NutterButter
Footballguy
I think that's a great idea. As soon as my kids start work, I plan to open up a roth for them. I plan to put in a little bit at a time and hopefully the market will be in a good place so they can see the money grow.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
My brother is 41. Never went to college. Just started working right out of high school, and has been with the same company for almost 20 years now. He owns his house outright, and has over 100 grand in the bank. He and his wife also own both of their cars outright that are each worth over 20 grand a piece, along with a decent 3rd car.
All this, yet he only has maybe 100 grand in his 401k. His company matches 6%, so he has been putting in 6% since day 1 so that he can get the full company match. He has never increased the amount.
He is a perfect example of someone who should have easily been able to retire at 50 or 55 if he has been taught even the basics about retirement planning, but there is no way that is going to be possible because he hasn't invested hardly anything. He is good with money in the sense that he saves and spends wisely. However, he is a complete novice when it comes to investing and/or retirement planning. He doesnt have the first clue what an index fund or mutual fund is.
I keep telling him to invest. He does not want to hear anything from me about it. I even advised him to just go see a financial planner for an assessment. Sort of the same concept where a lot of kids don't want to hear from their parents about it and could benefit quite a bit by hearing it from a teacher also.
The fact that a huge chunk of people can't retire is a major reason why things are crappy for people. If people stop giving all their money to credit card companies maybe they can retire at a decent age and open up some jobs for younger people, younger people who would hopefully have some basic knowledge of retirement planning which would benefit future generations as well.
If you are thinking about this in terms of just your own kids or yourself, you are missing the bigger picture completely.
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NutterButter
Footballguy
I know, i know, its crazy and you're right, it would help. I just keep reading about this in this thread and it bugs me b/c the real shortcoming imo is on the parental side. If there wasn't a collective suckage on the part of parents, we'd be in a much better place.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Umm, those parents weren't taught about this stuff either. Do you understand the problem yet?
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Absolutely.
My son is 9 months old. There is no way I will let him screw up like I did where I didn't plan for the future very well until I hit my 30s. No chance.
However, I also know that a very small percentage of parents are able/willing to do this.
I also hope that by the time he hits high school in like 14 years that he is able to take courses in this stuff, and hopefully they are mandatory. I suppose at the very least they should enroll all the kids in classes like this and give the parents the option of pulling them out and taking extra electives if they REALLY don't want their kids learning about finances in school.
Gawain
Footballguy
Kids do have a mind of their own. Part of being in your 20s is learning for yourself financially. Most people learn by screwing up.
NutterButter
Footballguy
Parents don't know its not a good idea to graduate from college with 50k in student loan debt and a dead end liberal arts degree? Parents don't know that its not a good idea to accrue thousands of dollars in credit card debt while in college?Umm, those parents weren't taught about this stuff either. Do you understand the problem yet?
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Absolutely, they are still going to screw things up, but at least minimize the damage at worst. At best they never make major mistakes.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
You just said the problem is the dumb parents. I agree. The dumb financial parents breed the dumb financial kids.
Yet you are arguing against breaking the cycle. What??
ghostguy123
Footballguy
The current middle school and high school kids will be the suckage of parents you are referring to about 10-20 years from now.
So you want to be in a much better place, but are not willing to let it happen with some education? it isn't going to stop itself man.
NutterButter
Footballguy
Not dumb parents. Bad parents. Parents that fail to teach their children. Parents have 20+ years of real life personal finance experience before their kids leave the house and yet so little of that is passed along to their children. That's the biggest problem. They know neither of those decisions I presented are wise yet tens of thousands of kids still wind up in them. In many ways, they allow it to happen b/c of their failure to parent.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
ghostguy123
Footballguy
NutterButter
Footballguy
Nah, go ahead. They're having a hard enough time teaching the current curriculum, but go ahead, give a class in personal finance. I don't think it will make much of a difference. Maybe have a class in personal accountability as well.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Maybe I'm failing but with most subjects my kids will learn better from others, at first anyway. They might listen to me alone but they listen better if we teach in tandem - the teacher is reinforcing what I've said, I reinforce what the teacher has said. My two oldest have reached the stage where they don't think dad knows what he's talking about - until someone else says the same thing.
Financial responsibility is too important to leave it to hoping they've heard what I've said and watched what we do, without other positive influences.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
May as well stop teaching math and english as well. It isnt perfect so just quit.
NutterButter
Footballguy
FUBAR
Footballguy
Apparently because I think having someone else teach my kids some things is beneficial to them.
NutterButter
Footballguy
Just not personal finance. You can do it. I believe in you.
Tom Hagen
Footballguy
So why punish the kids for having bad parents? Why not give them a chance to break the cycle through education the parents are failing to provide?
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