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Lies About Hitler

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I keep reading all these lies and misunderstandings about Adolf Hitler in nearly every political thread. So I decided it was important to set the record straight:

1. Hitler was not a religious Christian. (This is argued a lot by atheists and secularists.) Sometimes Hitler made references to God and Christianity for political purposes, but that's all it was. Though he came from a Catholic family (no Jewish ancestors, BTW!), there is no record of him having attended church on a regular basis (or even at all.) None of Hitler's actions or crimes were committed in the name of Christianity.

2. Hitler was not anti- Christian. (This is argued a lot by religious Christians.) The Third Reich heavily restricted both the Catholic and Lutheran churches, as institutions, but only in the same way that they restricted ALL previously independent institutions. One prominent member of the government, Alfred Rosenberg, was virulently anti-Christian, and he is often used as a source to prove this point, but none of his "recommendations" (having Mein Kampf replace the Bible, and a swastika replace the Cross, etc.), were ever implemented by the state. Christians were free to worship and did so throughout the 12 years the Nazis were in power.

3. Hitler did not seize guns. (This is argued by the NRA and its supporters.) In fact, private gun ownership actually increased during the Third Reich as restrictions were lifted which had been placed on gun owners during the Weimar regime. It is true that Jews were restricted from owning guns, but this did not occur until several years after the Nuremberg laws (expelling Jews from German social life) were already in place, and it was largely for show, since extremely few of Germany's Jews were armed in the first place.

4. Hitler was not a Darwinist. Some historians have made the somewhat questionable argument that Hitler was a "social Darwinist", though Hitler himself never used this term, nor does he ever refer to Darwin or evolution in any way. Intelligent Design proponents have turned this into an argument that Hitler was a result of teaching evolution; in his film promoting Intelligent Design, Ben Stein actually visits Auschwitz as a warning as to what will happen if evolution is taught. In point of fact, Darwin's works were banned in Nazi Germany and The Origin of the Species was one of the books publicly burned by Goebbels in 1933.

5. Hitler was not a socialist. Despite the name, National Socialism had very little socialism, and what it did have was thrown out when Hitler rose to power. It is true that the Nazis, like Socialists, were collectivist in nature, but they focused on race rather than class as their distinction. The Nazis were an extreme right-wing, not left-wing movement.

Hope that helps.

Link(s)??

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Many people think Hitler was some sort of evil genius. The guy was almost literally mentally deficient.

This is false as well. Hitler was certainly evil IMO, and he was a political genius; one of the most extraordinary men who ever lived. He was also the most effective public speaker in history.
He failed getting into an art college. Twice. The guy who painted the Virgin Mary with dung got into art school. There were many plots to kill him and put someone in who wasn't a moron, but the Russians decided to put a stop to all those shenanigans.
Is this is a serious post? Many geniuses fail at tests. Einstein, Churchill, Edison, Henry Ford all had grave academic failures in their lives.Adolf Hitler was a political genius bar none. He rose from nothing; no money, no background, no political history, formed his own political party and took over a major country and then took over half the world, mainly solely on the force of his personality.
Hitler's political party succeeded in spite of himself. The Nazi party won in 1933 with just over 43 percent of the popular vote. He was a charismatic speaker, but let's not make him out to be some type of intelligent person. The guy was not smart, but he was extremely lucky.
Not smart? Where are you getting this? Perhaps the most brilliant political mind in history. He could lecture on central European history, for hours on end, off the cuff.
Knowing a lot about one subject doesn't necessarily make a person smart. More to the point, why are we even having a discussion about Hitler? The guy tried to take over the world, failed miserably, managed to make almost everyone hate him (including those in his own political party before the war even got started), and to this day remains an almost universally reviled figure.
:lmao: Where are you getting your history? The back of a cerel box?
Are you arguing that he succeeded,or that he wasn't trying to take over 'the whole world'?

He wasn't trying to take over the whole world.

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Back when MLK was killed Hitler felt it necessary to mention how the television coverage was going to disrupt ad revenue.

LOOK AT ME, I WATCH AMC.

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I keep reading all these lies and misunderstandings about Adolf Hitler in nearly every political thread. So I decided it was important to set the record straight:

1. Hitler was not a religious Christian. (This is argued a lot by atheists and secularists.) Sometimes Hitler made references to God and Christianity for political purposes, but that's all it was. Though he came from a Catholic family (no Jewish ancestors, BTW!), there is no record of him having attended church on a regular basis (or even at all.) None of Hitler's actions or crimes were committed in the name of Christianity.

2. Hitler was not anti- Christian. (This is argued a lot by religious Christians.) The Third Reich heavily restricted both the Catholic and Lutheran churches, as institutions, but only in the same way that they restricted ALL previously independent institutions. One prominent member of the government, Alfred Rosenberg, was virulently anti-Christian, and he is often used as a source to prove this point, but none of his "recommendations" (having Mein Kampf replace the Bible, and a swastika replace the Cross, etc.), were ever implemented by the state. Christians were free to worship and did so throughout the 12 years the Nazis were in power.

3. Hitler did not seize guns. (This is argued by the NRA and its supporters.) In fact, private gun ownership actually increased during the Third Reich as restrictions were lifted which had been placed on gun owners during the Weimar regime. It is true that Jews were restricted from owning guns, but this did not occur until several years after the Nuremberg laws (expelling Jews from German social life) were already in place, and it was largely for show, since extremely few of Germany's Jews were armed in the first place.

4. Hitler was not a Darwinist. Some historians have made the somewhat questionable argument that Hitler was a "social Darwinist", though Hitler himself never used this term, nor does he ever refer to Darwin or evolution in any way. Intelligent Design proponents have turned this into an argument that Hitler was a result of teaching evolution; in his film promoting Intelligent Design, Ben Stein actually visits Auschwitz as a warning as to what will happen if evolution is taught. In point of fact, Darwin's works were banned in Nazi Germany and The Origin of the Species was one of the books publicly burned by Goebbels in 1933.

5. Hitler was not a socialist. Despite the name, National Socialism had very little socialism, and what it did have was thrown out when Hitler rose to power. It is true that the Nazis, like Socialists, were collectivist in nature, but they focused on race rather than class as their distinction. The Nazis were an extreme right-wing, not left-wing movement.

Hope that helps.

Link(s)??

Which of my statements would you like to challenge?

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I keep reading all these lies and misunderstandings about Adolf Hitler in nearly every political thread. So I decided it was important to set the record straight:

1. Hitler was not a religious Christian. (This is argued a lot by atheists and secularists.) Sometimes Hitler made references to God and Christianity for political purposes, but that's all it was. Though he came from a Catholic family (no Jewish ancestors, BTW!), there is no record of him having attended church on a regular basis (or even at all.) None of Hitler's actions or crimes were committed in the name of Christianity.

2. Hitler was not anti- Christian. (This is argued a lot by religious Christians.) The Third Reich heavily restricted both the Catholic and Lutheran churches, as institutions, but only in the same way that they restricted ALL previously independent institutions. One prominent member of the government, Alfred Rosenberg, was virulently anti-Christian, and he is often used as a source to prove this point, but none of his "recommendations" (having Mein Kampf replace the Bible, and a swastika replace the Cross, etc.), were ever implemented by the state. Christians were free to worship and did so throughout the 12 years the Nazis were in power.

3. Hitler did not seize guns. (This is argued by the NRA and its supporters.) In fact, private gun ownership actually increased during the Third Reich as restrictions were lifted which had been placed on gun owners during the Weimar regime. It is true that Jews were restricted from owning guns, but this did not occur until several years after the Nuremberg laws (expelling Jews from German social life) were already in place, and it was largely for show, since extremely few of Germany's Jews were armed in the first place.

4. Hitler was not a Darwinist. Some historians have made the somewhat questionable argument that Hitler was a "social Darwinist", though Hitler himself never used this term, nor does he ever refer to Darwin or evolution in any way. Intelligent Design proponents have turned this into an argument that Hitler was a result of teaching evolution; in his film promoting Intelligent Design, Ben Stein actually visits Auschwitz as a warning as to what will happen if evolution is taught. In point of fact, Darwin's works were banned in Nazi Germany and The Origin of the Species was one of the books publicly burned by Goebbels in 1933.

5. Hitler was not a socialist. Despite the name, National Socialism had very little socialism, and what it did have was thrown out when Hitler rose to power. It is true that the Nazis, like Socialists, were collectivist in nature, but they focused on race rather than class as their distinction. The Nazis were an extreme right-wing, not left-wing movement.

Hope that helps.

Link(s)??

Tim doesn't need to provide links for his arguments. Links must only be provided when Tim disagrees.

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He wasn't trying to take over the whole world.

Ummm....

I don't believe he was...at least not at first. His main vision was expanding Germany east into Russia.

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Many people think Hitler was some sort of evil genius. The guy was almost literally mentally deficient.

This is false as well. Hitler was certainly evil IMO, and he was a political genius; one of the most extraordinary men who ever lived. He was also the most effective public speaker in history.

He failed getting into an art college. Twice. The guy who painted the Virgin Mary with dung got into art school.

There were many plots to kill him and put someone in who wasn't a moron, but the Russians decided to put a stop to all those shenanigans.

Is this is a serious post? Many geniuses fail at tests. Einstein, Churchill, Edison, Henry Ford all had grave academic failures in their lives.

Adolf Hitler was a political genius bar none. He rose from nothing; no money, no background, no political history, formed his own political party and took over a major country and then took over half the world, mainly solely on the force of his personality.

Hitler's political party succeeded in spite of himself. The Nazi party won in 1933 with just over 43 percent of the popular vote. He was a charismatic speaker, but let's not make him out to be some type of intelligent person. The guy was not smart, but he was extremely lucky.

This post is all kinds of wrong.

Then why did his own party try several times to kill him?

No high ranking member of the Nazi Party ever tried to kill Hitler.

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The anti-Semitism of the new movement (Christian Social movement)was based on religious ideas instead of racial knowledge.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 3]I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the AlmightyCreator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lords work.[Adolph Hitler, Speech, Reichstag, 1936]I have followed [the Church] in giving our party program thecharacter of unalterable finality, like the Creed. The Church hasnever allowed the Creed to be interfered with. It is fifteen hundredyears since it was formulated, but every suggestion for itsamendment, every logical criticism, or attack on it, has beenrejected. The Church has realized that anything and everything can bebuilt up on a document of that sort, no matter how contradictory orirreconcilable with it. The faithful will swallow it whole, so longas logical reasoning is never allowed to be brought to bear on it.[Adolf Hitler, from Rauschning, _The Voice of Destruction_, pp. 239-40]My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as afighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surroundedby a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were andsummoned men to fight against them and who, Gods truth! was greatestnot as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christianand as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lordat last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of theTemple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fightagainst the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, withdeepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the factthat it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. Asa Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I havethe duty to be a fighter for truth and justice And if there isanything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly, it isthe distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a dutyto my own people. And when I look on my people I see them work andwork and toil and labor, and at the end of the week they have onlyfor their wages wretchedness and misery. When I go out in the morningand see these men standing in their queues and look into theirpinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a verydevil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord twothousand years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor peopleare plundered and exposed.[Adolf Hitler, speech in Munich on April 12, 1922, countering apolitical opponent, Count Lerchenfeld, who opposed antisemitism onhis personal Christian feelings. Published in "My New Order", quotedin Freethought Today April 1990]I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will ofthe Almighty Creator.[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, pp. 46]What we have to fight foris the freedom and independence of thefatherland, so that our people may be enabled to fulfill the missionassigned to it by the Creator.[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, pp. 125]This human world of ours would be inconceivable without thepractical existence of a religious belief.[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, pp.152]And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of hisestimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary, He drovethose enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God.[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, pp.174]Catholics and Protestants are fighting with one another while theenemy of Aryan humanity and all Christendom is laughing up his sleeve.[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, pp.309]I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so[Adolph Hitler, to Gen. Gerhard Engel, 1941]Any violence which does not spring from a spiritual base, will bewavering and uncertain. It lacks the stability which can only rest ina fanatical outlook.[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, p. 171]I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemnsplendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, theabbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to myfather, the highest and most desirable ideal.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 1]I was not in agreement with the sharp anti-Semitic tone, but fromtime to time I read arguments which gave me some food for thought. Atall events, these occasions slowly made me acquainted with the manand the movement, which in those days guided Viennas destinies: Dr.Karl Lueger and the Christian Social Party.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 2]the unprecedented rise of the Christian Social Party was toassume the deepest significance for me as a classical object of study.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 3]As long as leadership from above was not lacking, the peoplefulfilled their duty and obligation overwhelmingly. WhetherProtestant pastor or Catholic priest, both together and particularlyat the first flare, there really existed in both camps but a singleholy German Reich, for whose existence and future each man turned tohis own heaven.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 3]Political parties has nothing to do with religious problems, as longas these are not alien to the nation, undermining the morals andethics of the race; just as religion cannot be amalgamated with thescheming of political parties.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 3]For the political leader the religious doctrines and institutions ofhis people must always remain inviolable; or else has no right to bein politics, but should become a reformer, if he has what it takes![Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 3]In nearly all the matters in which the Pan-German movement waswanting, the attitude of the Christian Social Party was correct andwell-planned.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 3]It [Christian Social Party] recognized the value of large-scalepropaganda and was a virtuoso in influencing the psychologicalinstincts of the broad masses of its adherents.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 3]If Dr. Karl Lueger had lived in Germany, he would have been rankedamong the great minds of our people.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 3, about the leader ofthe Christian Social movement]Even today I am not ashamed to say that, overpowered by stormyenthusiasm, I fell down on my knees and thanked Heaven from anoverflowing heart for granting me the good fortune of being permittedto live at this time.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 5]I had so often sung Deutschland u:ber Alles and shouted Heil atthe top of my lungs, that it seemed to me almost a belated act ofgrace to be allowed to stand as a witness in the divine court of theeternal judge and proclaim the sincerity of this conviction.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 5]Only in the steady and constant application of force lies the veryfirst prerequisite for success. This persistence, however, can alwaysand only arise from a definite spiritual conviction. Any violencewhich does not spring from a firm, spiritual base, will be waveringand uncertain.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 5]I soon realized that the correct use of propaganda is a true artwhich has remained practically unknown to the bourgeois parties. Onlythe Christian- Social movement, especially in Luegers time achieveda certain virtuosity on this instrument, to which it owed many of itssuccess.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 6]Once again the songs of the fatherland roared to the heavens alongthe endless marching columns, and for the last time the Lords gracesmiled on His ungrateful children.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 7, reflecting on WorldWar I]The more abstractly correct and hence powerful this idea will be,the more impossible remains its complete fulfillment as long as itcontinues to depend on human beings If this were not so, thefounders of religion could not be counted among the greatest men ofthis earth In its workings, even the religion of love is only theweak reflection of the will of its exalted founder; its significance,however, lies in the direction which it attempted to give to auniversal human development of culture, ethics, and morality.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 8]To them belong, not only the truly great statesmen, but all othergreat reformers as well. Beside Frederick the Great stands MartinLuther as well as Richard Wagner.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 8]The fight against syphilis demands a fight against prostitution,against prejudices, old habits, against previous conceptions, generalviews among them not least the false prudery of certain circles. Thefirst prerequisite for even the moral right to combat these things isthe facilitation of earlier marriage for the coming generation. Inlate marriage alone lies the compulsion to retain an institutionwhich, twist and turn as you like, is and remains a disgrace tohumanity, an institution which is damned ill-suited to a being whowith his usual modesty likes to regard himself as the image of God.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 10]Parallel to the training of the body a struggle against thepoisoning of the soul must begin. Our whole public life today is likea hothouse for sexual ideas and simulations. Just look at the bill offare served up in our movies, vaudeville and theaters, and you willhardly be able to deny that this is not the right kind of food,particularly for the youthTheater, art, literature, cinema, press,posters, and window displays must be cleansed of all manifestationsof our rotting world and placed in the service of a moral, political,and cultural idea.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 10, echoing the CulturalWarfare rhetoric of the Religious Right]But if out of smugness, or even cowardice, this battle is not foughtto its end, then take a look at the peoples five hundred years fromnow. I think you will find but few images of God, unless you want toprofane the Almighty.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 10]While both denominations maintain missions in Asia and Africa inorder to win new followers for their doctrine an activity which canboast but very modest success compared to the advance of theMohammedan faith in particular right here in Europe they losemillions and millions of inward adherents who either are alien to allreligious life or simply go their own ways. The consequences,particularly from a moral point of view, are not favorable.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 10]The great masses of people do not consist of philosophers; preciselyfor the masses, faith is often the sole foundation of a moralattitude. The various substitutes have not proved so successful fromthe standpoint of results that they could be regarded as a usefulreplacement for previous religious creeds. But if religious doctrineand faith are really to embrace the broad masses, the unconditionalauthority of the content of this faith is the foundation of allefficacy.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 10]Due to his own original special nature, the Jew cannot possess areligious institution, if for no other reason because he lacksidealism in any form, and hence belief in a hereafter is absolutelyforeign to him. And a religion in the Aryan sense cannot be imaginedwhich lacks the conviction of survival after death in some form.Indeed, the Talmud is not a book to prepare a man for the hereafter,but only for a practical and profitable life in this world.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 11]The best characterization is provided by the product of thisreligious education, the Jew himself. His life is only of this world,and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as hisnature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of thenew doctrine. Of course, the latter made no secret of his attitudetoward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip todrive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity, whothen as always saw in religion nothing but an instrument for hisbusiness existence. In return, Christ was nailed to the cross, whileour present-day party Christians debase themselves to begging forJewish votes at elections and later try to arrange political swindleswith atheistic Jewish parties and this against their own nation.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 11].the personification of the devil as the symbol of all evilassumes the living shape of the Jew.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 1, Chapter 11, precisely echoingMartin Luther's teachings]Faith is harder to shake than knowledge, love succumbs less tochange than respect, hate is more enduring than aversion, and theimpetus to the mightiest upheavals on this earth has at all timesconsisted less in a scientific knowledge dominating the masses thanin a fanaticism which inspired them and sometimes in a hysteria whichdrove them forward.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf" Vol. 1 Chapter 12]The greatness of every mighty organization embodying an idea in thisworld lies in the religious fanaticism and intolerance with which,fanatically convinced of its own right, it intolerantly imposes itswill against all others.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf" Vol. 1 Chapter 12]The greatness of Christianity did not lie in attempted negotiationsfor compromise with any similar philosophical opinions in the ancientworld, but in its inexorable fanaticism in preaching and fighting forits own doctrine.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf" Vol. 1 Chapter 12]All in all, this whole period of winter 1919-20 was a singlestruggle to strengthen confidence in the victorious might of theyoung movement and raise it to that fanaticism of faith which canmove mountains.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf" Vol. 1 Chapter 12]Thus inwardly armed with confidence in God and the unshakablestupidity of the voting citizenry, the politicians can begin thefight for the remaking of the Reich as they call it.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf" Vol. 2 Chapter 1]Of course, even the general designation religious includes variousbasic ideas or convictions, for example, the indestructibility of thesoul, the eternity of its existence, the existence of a higher being,etc. But all these ideas, regardless of how convincing they may befor the individual, are submitted to the critical examination of thisindividual and hence to a fluctuating affirmation or negation untilemotional divination or knowledge assumes the binding force ofapodictic faith. This, above all, is the fighting factor which makesa breach and opens the way for the recognition of basic religiousviews.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf" Vol. 2 Chapter 1]Anyone who dares to lay hands on the highest image of the Lordcommits sacrilege against the benevolent creator of this miracle andcontributes to the expulsion from paradise.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf" Vol. 2 Chapter 1]A folkish state must therefore begin by raising marriage from thelevel of a continuous defilement of the race, and give it theconsecration of an institution which is called upon to produce imagesof the Lord and not monstrosities halfway between man and ape.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf" Vol. 2 Chapter 2]It would be more in keeping with the intention of the noblest man inthis world if our two Christian churches, instead of annoying Negroeswith missions which they neither desire nor understand, would kindly,but in all seriousness, teach our European humanity that whereparents are not healthy it is a deed pleasing to God to take pity ona poor little healthy orphan child and give him father and mother,than themselves to give birth to a sick child who will only bringunhappiness and suffering on himself and the rest of the world.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf" Vol. 2 Chapter 2]That this is possible may not be denied in a world where hundredsand hundreds of thousands of people voluntarily submit to celibacy,obligated and bound by nothing except the injunction of the Church.Should the same renunciation not be possible if this injunction isreplaced by the admonition finally to put an end to the constant andcontinuous original sin of racial poisoning, and to give the AlmightyCreator beings such as He Himself created?[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf" Vol. 2 Chapter 2]For the greatest revolutionary changes on this earth would not havebeen thinkable if their motive force, instead of fanatical, yes,hysterical passion, had been merely the bourgeois virtues of law andorder.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf" Vol. 2 Chapter 2]It doesnt dawn on this depraved bourgeois world that this ispositively a sin against all reason; that it is criminal lunacy tokeep on drilling a born half-ape until people think they have made alawyer out of him, while millions of members of the highest culture-race must remain in entirely unworthy positions; that it is a sinagainst the will of the Eternal Creator if His most gifted beings bythe hundreds and hundreds of thousands are allowed to degenerate inthe present proletarian morass, while Hottentots and Zulu Kaffirs aretrained for intellectual professions.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf" Vol. 2 Chapter 2]It may be that today gold has become the exclusive ruler of life,but the time will come when man will again bow down before a highergod.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf" Vol. 2 Chapter 2]Christianity could not content itself with building up its ownaltar; it was absolutely forced to undertake the destruction of theheathen altars. Only from this fanatical intolerance could itsapodictic faith take form; this intolerance is, in fact, its absolutepresupposition.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf" Vol. 2 Chapter 5]For how shall we fill people with blind faith in the correctness ofa doctrine, if we ourselves spread uncertainty and doubt by constantchanges in its outward structure? Here, too, we can learn by theexample of the Catholic Church. Though its doctrinal edifice, and inpart quite superfluously, comes into collision with exact science andresearch, it is none the less unwilling to sacrifice so much as onelittle syllable of its dogmas it is only such dogmas which lend tothe whole body the character of a faith.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf" Vol. 2 Chapter 5]The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each inhis own denomination, of making people stop just talkingsuperficially of Gods will, and actually fulfill Gods will, and notlet Gods word be desecrated. For Gods will gave men their form,their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work isdeclaring war on the Lords creation, the divine will.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf" Vol. 2 Chapter 10]In the ranks of the movement [National Socialist movement], the mostdevout Protestant could sit beside the most devout Catholic, withoutcoming into the slightest conflict with his religious convictions.The mighty common struggle which both carried on against thedestroyer of Aryan humanity had, on the contrary, taught themmutually to respect and esteem one another.[Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf" Vol. 2 Chapter 10]For this, to be sure, from the childs primer down to the lastnewspaper, every theater and every movie house, every advertisingpillar and every billboard, must be pressed into the service of thisone great mission, until the timorous prayer of our present parlorpatriots: Lord, make us free! is transformed in the brain of thesmallest boy into the burning plea: Almighty God, bless our armswhen the time comes; be just as thou hast always been; judge nowwhether we be deserving of freedom; Lord, bless our battle![Adolf Hitler's prayer, "Mein Kampf", Vol. 2 Chapter 13]The Government, being resolved to undertake the political and moralpurification of our public life, are creating and securing theconditions necessary for a really profound revival of religious life[Adolph Hitler, in a speech to the Reichstag on March 23, 1933]ATHEIST HALL CONVERTEDBerlin Churches Establish Bureau to Win Back WorshippersWireless to the New York Times.BERLIN, May 13.  In Freethinkers Hall, which before the Naziresurgence was the national headquarters of the German FreethinkersLeague, the Berlin Protestant church authorities have opened a bureaufor advice to the public in church matters. Its chief object is towin back former churchgoers and assist those who have not previouslybelonged to any religious congregation in obtaining church membership.The German Freethinkers League, which was swept away by the nationalrevolution, was the largest of such organizations in Germany. It hadabout 500,000 members [New York Times, May 14, 1933, page 2, on Hitler's outlawing ofatheistic and freethinking groups in Germany in the Spring of 1933,after the Enabling Act authorizing Hitler to rule by decree]I go the way that Providence dictates with the assurance of asleepwalker.[Adolf Hitler, Speech, 15 March 1936, Munich, Germany.]The National Government will regard it as its first and foremostduty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and cooperation. Itwill preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nationhas been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of ournational morality, and the family as the basis of national life.[Adolf Hitler, Berlin, February 1, 1933]Today Christians  stand at the head of [this country] I pledgethat I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroyChristianity .. We want to fill our culture again with the Christianspirit  We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments inliterature, in the theater, and in the press  in short, we want toburn out the *poison of immorality* which has entered into our wholelife and culture as a result of *liberal excess* during the past (few) years.[The Speeches of Adolph Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1 (London, OxfordUniversity Press, 1942), pg. 871-872]
Anyone with pain in their thumb can join my class action

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5. Hitler was not a socialist. Despite the name, National Socialism had very little socialism, and what it did have was thrown out when Hitler rose to power. It is true that the Nazis, like Socialists, were collectivist in nature, but they focused on race rather than class as their distinction. The Nazis were an extreme right-wing, not left-wing movement.

My favorite of the group because I see this all the time on the far right wing sites, that Hitler was a socialist and pointing to the name National Socialist Party as proof of that. Kinda like saying The Democratic People's Republic of Korea (North Korea) is either democratic and/or a republic because that is what they call themselves.

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Hitler spent thousands of deutsche marks every month on pornographic hummels.

If there isn't such a thing, someone should get on this. :moneybag:

Edited by Vike Me

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3. Hitler did not seize guns. (This is argued by the NRA and its supporters.) In fact, private gun ownership actually increased during the Third Reich as restrictions were lifted which had been placed on gun owners during the Weimar regime. It is true that Jews were restricted from owning guns, but this did not occur until several years after the Nuremberg laws (expelling Jews from German social life) were already in place, and it was largely for show, since extremely few of Germany's Jews were armed in the first place.

Did he not take them from Jews?

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I keep reading all these lies and misunderstandings about Adolf Hitler in nearly every political thread. So I decided it was important to set the record straight:

1. Hitler was not a religious Christian. (This is argued a lot by atheists and secularists.) Sometimes Hitler made references to God and Christianity for political purposes, but that's all it was. Though he came from a Catholic family (no Jewish ancestors, BTW!), there is no record of him having attended church on a regular basis (or even at all.) None of Hitler's actions or crimes were committed in the name of Christianity.

2. Hitler was not anti- Christian. (This is argued a lot by religious Christians.) The Third Reich heavily restricted both the Catholic and Lutheran churches, as institutions, but only in the same way that they restricted ALL previously independent institutions. One prominent member of the government, Alfred Rosenberg, was virulently anti-Christian, and he is often used as a source to prove this point, but none of his "recommendations" (having Mein Kampf replace the Bible, and a swastika replace the Cross, etc.), were ever implemented by the state. Christians were free to worship and did so throughout the 12 years the Nazis were in power.

3. Hitler did not seize guns. (This is argued by the NRA and its supporters.) In fact, private gun ownership actually increased during the Third Reich as restrictions were lifted which had been placed on gun owners during the Weimar regime. It is true that Jews were restricted from owning guns, but this did not occur until several years after the Nuremberg laws (expelling Jews from German social life) were already in place, and it was largely for show, since extremely few of Germany's Jews were armed in the first place.

4. Hitler was not a Darwinist. Some historians have made the somewhat questionable argument that Hitler was a "social Darwinist", though Hitler himself never used this term, nor does he ever refer to Darwin or evolution in any way. Intelligent Design proponents have turned this into an argument that Hitler was a result of teaching evolution; in his film promoting Intelligent Design, Ben Stein actually visits Auschwitz as a warning as to what will happen if evolution is taught. In point of fact, Darwin's works were banned in Nazi Germany and The Origin of the Species was one of the books publicly burned by Goebbels in 1933.

5. Hitler was not a socialist. Despite the name, National Socialism had very little socialism, and what it did have was thrown out when Hitler rose to power. It is true that the Nazis, like Socialists, were collectivist in nature, but they focused on race rather than class as their distinction. The Nazis were an extreme right-wing, not left-wing movement.

Hope that helps.

Link(s)??

Timmay doesn't like to give out the sources he plagiarizes from.

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He wasn't trying to take over the whole world.

Ummm....
"Ummm" what?
Perhaps not in his lifetime.And also, perhaps, "take over" is inaccurate but "dominate" certainly isn't. Edited by Andy Dufresne

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Was very upset because he could never become a banker, as was his father's dream for him.

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3. Hitler did not seize guns. (This is argued by the NRA and its supporters.) In fact, private gun ownership actually increased during the Third Reich as restrictions were lifted which had been placed on gun owners during the Weimar regime. It is true that Jews were restricted from owning guns, but this did not occur until several years after the Nuremberg laws (expelling Jews from German social life) were already in place, and it was largely for show, since extremely few of Germany's Jews were armed in the first place.

Did he not take them from Jews?

If you're talking about SS troops knocking on Jewish doors and taking away their guns, no it never happened. It was put on the books, but as I wrote earlier, so few Jews had guns that the law was never enforced. After Kristallnacht most German Jews were either deported or went into hiding.

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But his mom was Jewish, right?

His father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Belgium with low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. His mother was a fifteen year old French prostitute named Chloe with webbed feet

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in his spare time, Hitler enjoyed watching Love It of List it on HGTV and considered invading Canada after a dissapointing show..

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so tim,

are you defending him, vilifying him or is there another agenda here?

serious question. i have no notebook

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I thought this would be one of those pillow that looks like a person. Like 'dances around Barbie' but 'lies about Hitler.'

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I keep reading all these lies and misunderstandings about Adolf Hitler in nearly every political thread. So I decided it was important to set the record straight:

1. Hitler was not a religious Christian. (This is argued a lot by atheists and secularists.) Sometimes Hitler made references to God and Christianity for political purposes, but that's all it was. Though he came from a Catholic family (no Jewish ancestors, BTW!), there is no record of him having attended church on a regular basis (or even at all.) None of Hitler's actions or crimes were committed in the name of Christianity.

2. Hitler was not anti- Christian. (This is argued a lot by religious Christians.) The Third Reich heavily restricted both the Catholic and Lutheran churches, as institutions, but only in the same way that they restricted ALL previously independent institutions. One prominent member of the government, Alfred Rosenberg, was virulently anti-Christian, and he is often used as a source to prove this point, but none of his "recommendations" (having Mein Kampf replace the Bible, and a swastika replace the Cross, etc.), were ever implemented by the state. Christians were free to worship and did so throughout the 12 years the Nazis were in power.

3. Hitler did not seize guns. (This is argued by the NRA and its supporters.) In fact, private gun ownership actually increased during the Third Reich as restrictions were lifted which had been placed on gun owners during the Weimar regime. It is true that Jews were restricted from owning guns, but this did not occur until several years after the Nuremberg laws (expelling Jews from German social life) were already in place, and it was largely for show, since extremely few of Germany's Jews were armed in the first place.

4. Hitler was not a Darwinist. Some historians have made the somewhat questionable argument that Hitler was a "social Darwinist", though Hitler himself never used this term, nor does he ever refer to Darwin or evolution in any way. Intelligent Design proponents have turned this into an argument that Hitler was a result of teaching evolution; in his film promoting Intelligent Design, Ben Stein actually visits Auschwitz as a warning as to what will happen if evolution is taught. In point of fact, Darwin's works were banned in Nazi Germany and The Origin of the Species was one of the books publicly burned by Goebbels in 1933.

5. Hitler was not a socialist. Despite the name, National Socialism had very little socialism, and what it did have was thrown out when Hitler rose to power. It is true that the Nazis, like Socialists, were collectivist in nature, but they focused on race rather than class as their distinction. The Nazis were an extreme right-wing, not left-wing movement.

Hope that helps.

2. Hitler was very anti-Christianity, anti Catholic Church and and anti Protestant congregations, and there was no real freedom of worship. There were a lot of priests dragged away to camps, so were a lot of conscientious objecters, and I do believe there was a ministry that at some point "administered" churches including management, funding and the content of homilies/sermons at some point.

3. It wasn't a Nazi thing strictly but unlike the USA there was (and is) no fundamental right of gun ownership. That's cool as long as the government in power respects other rights which.... uhm.... wasn't exactly the Nazis style.

4. Oh no they weren't darwinists they just had kookie ideas about race, eugenics, and "aryanism." A lot of people still do but they don't try to make them reality through singular control of all levers of state power (because they cannot).

5. Hitler was not a "socialist" the same way modern Republicans and Democrats are not the same as "Republican-Democrats" that existed in the early part of our country. Hitler was influenced politically by fascist theorists coming out of Vienna and Trieste in the 1920's, basically he loved power for its own sake. If that meant using the state to aggrandize property, powers and labor, well he just did it. Some of his projects could be considered "socialistic." Here is an example (mind you this is from a liberal who thinks he is actuall lauding the president with thys trype):

Stimulus Thinking, and Nuance

Published: March 31, 2009

Every so often, history serves up an analogy that’s uncomfortable, a little distracting and yet still very relevant.

In the summer of 1933, just as they will do on Thursday, heads of government and their finance ministers met in London to talk about a global economic crisis. They accomplished little and went home to battle the crisis in their own ways.

More than any other country, Germany — Nazi Germany — then set out on a serious stimulus program. The government built up the military, expanded the autobahn, put up stadiums for the 1936 Berlin Olympics and built monuments to the Nazi Party across Munich and Berlin.

The economic benefits of this vast works program never flowed to most workers, because fascism doesn’t look kindly on collective bargaining. But Germany did escape the Great Depression faster than other countries. Corporate profits boomed, and unemployment sank (and not because of slave labor, which didn’t become widespread until later). Harold James, an economic historian, says that the young liberal economists studying under John Maynard Keynes in the 1930s began to debate whether Hitler had solved unemployment.

No sane person enjoys mixing nuance and Nazis, but this bit of economic history has a particular importance this week. In the run-up to the G-20 meeting, European leaders have resisted calls for more government spending. Last week, the European Union president, Mirek Topolanek, echoed a line from AC/DC — whom he had just heard in concert — and described the Obama administration’s stimulus plan as “a road to hell.”

Here in the United States, many people are understandably wondering whether the $800 billion stimulus program will make much of a difference. They want to know: Does stimulus work? Fortunately, this is one economic question that’s been answered pretty clearly in the last century.

Yes, stimulus works.

When governments have taken aggressive steps to soften an economic decline, they have succeeded. The Germans did it in the 1930s.

...

Hitler was also a vegetarian and a serious dog lover. This doesn't mean vegetarians and dog lovers aren't just awesome by and large.
Edited by SaintsInDome2006

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timschochet, on 29 Apr 2013 - 13:11, said:3. Hitler did not seize guns. (This is argued by the NRA and its supporters.) In fact, private gun ownership actually increased during the Third Reich as restrictions were lifted which had been placed on gun owners during the Weimar regime. It is true that Jews were restricted from owning guns, but this did not occur until several years after the Nuremberg laws (expelling Jews from German social life) were already in place, and it was largely for show, since extremely few of Germany's Jews were armed in the first place.

So he didn't seize guns (or restrict gun ownership)...until he did?On a side note, I think Hitler would have loved internet cat videos just like the rest of us.

He did not seize guns from people who weren't Jewish. it wasn't about gun control or keeping guns from anyone but Jews. The way it is portrayed by the gun sycophants in this country is historically wrong. Germans owned plenty of guns and never used them to try to stop Hitler. So much for that whole stopping tyranny thing.

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timschochet, on 29 Apr 2013 - 13:11, said:3. Hitler did not seize guns. (This is argued by the NRA and its supporters.) In fact, private gun ownership actually increased during the Third Reich as restrictions were lifted which had been placed on gun owners during the Weimar regime. It is true that Jews were restricted from owning guns, but this did not occur until several years after the Nuremberg laws (expelling Jews from German social life) were already in place, and it was largely for show, since extremely few of Germany's Jews were armed in the first place.

So he didn't seize guns (or restrict gun ownership)...until he did?On a side note, I think Hitler would have loved internet cat videos just like the rest of us.
He did not seize guns from people who weren't Jewish. it wasn't about gun control or keeping guns from anyone but Jews. The way it is portrayed by the gun sycophants in this country is historically wrong. Germans owned plenty of guns and never used them to try to stop Hitler. So much for that whole stopping tyranny thing.
Oh. Well in that case... Edited by Andy Dufresne

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timschochet, on 29 Apr 2013 - 13:11, said:3. Hitler did not seize guns. (This is argued by the NRA and its supporters.) In fact, private gun ownership actually increased during the Third Reich as restrictions were lifted which had been placed on gun owners during the Weimar regime. It is true that Jews were restricted from owning guns, but this did not occur until several years after the Nuremberg laws (expelling Jews from German social life) were already in place, and it was largely for show, since extremely few of Germany's Jews were armed in the first place.

So he didn't seize guns (or restrict gun ownership)...until he did?On a side note, I think Hitler would have loved internet cat videos just like the rest of us.

He did not seize guns from people who weren't Jewish. it wasn't about gun control or keeping guns from anyone but Jews. The way it is portrayed by the gun sycophants in this country is historically wrong. Germans owned plenty of guns and never used them to try to stop Hitler. So much for that whole stopping tyranny thing.

On the other hand some did and contributed to the allied war effort by opposing Hitler from behind enemy lines.

And that whole Warsaw ghetto uprising, which itself helped the allies and is one of the bravest stories of all time, wouldn't have been quite so effective without guns.

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More truths: Hitler hated Jews because his mothers doctor could not save her from breast cancer. Dr. Bloch was a Jew. He tried to use iodoform to help her but she died of an overdose.

Hitler went to Vienna to become a great artist. There he started reading anti Semitic material by guys like Degobenau. He got rejected by every art school which made him mad. Combine that with being pissed at Dr. Bloch and you get the holocaust. Pretty crazy

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More truths: Hitler hated Jews because his mothers doctor could not save her from breast cancer. Dr. Bloch was a Jew. He tried to use iodoform to help her but she died of an overdose.Hitler went to Vienna to become a great artist. There he started reading anti Semitic material by guys like Degobenau. He got rejected by every art school which made him mad. Combine that with being pissed at Dr. Bloch and you get the holocaust. Pretty crazy

I think there's potentially more to the story. Supposedly his father or grandfather (or something like that) was the illegitimate son/child of a wealthy Jewish man in Austria. The rumors of Jewish lineage haunted his family as it got blamed for being the reason his father could not get promoted in the Austrian state and especially his father who was extremely abusive toward him. Hitler was also seriously neurologically injured by gas attacks in World War 1; many in Germany falsely blamed "Jewish" bankers for forcing the Kaiser's regime to capitulate.

I would also change "Pretty Crazy" to Extremely Beyond Bat-###-f#%^&g Crazy.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

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More truths: Hitler hated Jews because his mothers doctor could not save her from breast cancer. Dr. Bloch was a Jew. He tried to use iodoform to help her but she died of an overdose.Hitler went to Vienna to become a great artist. There he started reading anti Semitic material by guys like Degobenau. He got rejected by every art school which made him mad. Combine that with being pissed at Dr. Bloch and you get the holocaust. Pretty crazy

It was actually a Final Four loss to MOP that sent him over the edge.

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so tim,

are you defending him, vilifying him or is there another agenda here?

serious question. i have no notebook

Defending him?

No. I am just trying to set the record straight as Hitler is used in all these arguments in order to push agendas that had nothing to do with him- gun rights being one example.

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Lies about Hitler = He created the "Talk to the Hand" fad.

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so tim,

are you defending him, vilifying him or is there another agenda here?

serious question. i have no notebook

Defending him?

No. I am just trying to set the record straight as Hitler is used in all these arguments in order to push agendas that had nothing to do with him- gun rights being one example.

And Arizona immigration laws.

Almost everything actually.

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More truths: Hitler hated Jews because his mothers doctor could not save her from breast cancer. Dr. Bloch was a Jew. He tried to use iodoform to help her but she died of an overdose.Hitler went to Vienna to become a great artist. There he started reading anti Semitic material by guys like Degobenau. He got rejected by every art school which made him mad. Combine that with being pissed at Dr. Bloch and you get the holocaust. Pretty crazy

The first part, while perhaps true (I have never read it before) has very little to do with Hitler's anti-Semitism. Also by "Degobenau", I think you mean Gobineau, who was not a direct influence on Hitler. Gobineau was a racist Frenchman who was a heavy influence on Houston Stewart Chamberlain, who had a direct influence on Hitler's thinking.

But anti-Semitism was extremely strong in central and eastern Europe anyhow, Hitler or no Hitler. In hating the Jews, Hitler represented the general will of the German people.

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More truths: Hitler hated Jews because his mothers doctor could not save her from breast cancer. Dr. Bloch was a Jew. He tried to use iodoform to help her but she died of an overdose.Hitler went to Vienna to become a great artist. There he started reading anti Semitic material by guys like Degobenau. He got rejected by every art school which made him mad. Combine that with being pissed at Dr. Bloch and you get the holocaust. Pretty crazy

I think there's potentially more to the story. Supposedly his father or grandfather (or something like that) was the illegitimate son/child of a wealthy Jewish man in Austria. The rumors of Jewish lineage haunted his family as it got blamed for being the reason his father could not get promoted in the Austrian state and especially his father who was extremely abusive toward him. Hitler was also seriously neurologically injured by gas attacks in World War 1; many in Germany falsely blamed "Jewish" bankers for forcing the Kaiser's regime to capitulate. I would also change "Pretty Crazy" to Extremely Beyond Bat-###-f#%^&g Crazy.
from everything I have learned, Timmy is right on the fact that he had no close Jewish relatives. Maybe there was blood mixed in somewhere but no where near a few generations. His father died when he was very young which led to him being babied by his mother and led to an edipus (spelling?) complex. The fact that his mother had 3 kids die within 8 weeks of each other or something close like that didn't help her let him be independent. He did get hit with mustard gas and was said to be catatonic. And right when he got his senses straight, the Germans surrendered and he reverted back to his state. He said later that his mustard gas experience was the same thing his mother felt when she was dying.

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so tim,

are you defending him, vilifying him or is there another agenda here?

serious question. i have no notebook

Defending him?

No. I am just trying to set the record straight as Hitler is used in all these arguments in order to push agendas that had nothing to do with him- gun rights being one example.

And Arizona immigration laws.

Almost everything actually.

Yup.

I enjoyed your thoughtful reply to my original post, but there are certain points that we disagree on. I have a meeting so I will try and respond in more depth later on when I have time.

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More truths: Hitler hated Jews because his mothers doctor could not save her from breast cancer. Dr. Bloch was a Jew. He tried to use iodoform to help her but she died of an overdose.Hitler went to Vienna to become a great artist. There he started reading anti Semitic material by guys like Degobenau. He got rejected by every art school which made him mad. Combine that with being pissed at Dr. Bloch and you get the holocaust. Pretty crazy

The first part, while perhaps true (I have never read it before) has very little to do with Hitler's anti-Semitism. Also by "Degobenau", I think you mean Gobineau, who was not a direct influence on Hitler. Gobineau was a racist Frenchman who was a heavy influence on Houston Stewart Chamberlain, who had a direct influence on Hitler's thinking.

But anti-Semitism was extremely strong in central and eastern Europe anyhow, Hitler or no Hitler. In hating the Jews, Hitler represented the general will of the German people.

The nazis got in with 33% of the vote in a depression worse than the US's, then did a velvet coup d'etat with a self-created fire at their version of Congress followed by an immediate seizure of all state powers. Lots and lots of bad Germans to go around but the people didn't exactly riot in the streets against him because things were worse than the worst they had ever been but they weren't nearly all with him, most were scared and the nazis held all the cards.

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so tim,

are you defending him, vilifying him or is there another agenda here?

serious question. i have no notebook

Defending him?

No. I am just trying to set the record straight as Hitler is used in all these arguments in order to push agendas that had nothing to do with him- gun rights being one example.

And Arizona immigration laws.

Almost everything actually.

Yup.

I enjoyed your thoughtful reply to my original post, but there are certain points that we disagree on. I have a meeting so I will try and respond in more depth later on when I have time.

Hey Tim, likewise.

Actually I am torn about responding on FFA, seems like there's really never enough time to fully think or explain things through.

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More truths: Hitler hated Jews because his mothers doctor could not save her from breast cancer. Dr. Bloch was a Jew. He tried to use iodoform to help her but she died of an overdose.Hitler went to Vienna to become a great artist. There he started reading anti Semitic material by guys like Degobenau. He got rejected by every art school which made him mad. Combine that with being pissed at Dr. Bloch and you get the holocaust. Pretty crazy

The first part, while perhaps true (I have never read it before) has very little to do with Hitler's anti-Semitism. Also by "Degobenau", I think you mean Gobineau, who was not a direct influence on Hitler. Gobineau was a racist Frenchman who was a heavy influence on Houston Stewart Chamberlain, who had a direct influence on Hitler's thinking.

But anti-Semitism was extremely strong in central and eastern Europe anyhow, Hitler or no Hitler. In hating the Jews, Hitler represented the general will of the German people.

The nazis got in with 33% of the vote in a depression worse than the US's, then did a velvet coup d'etat with a self-created fire at their version of Congress followed by an immediate seizure of all state powers. Lots and lots of bad Germans to go around but the people didn't exactly riot in the streets against him because things were worse than the worst they had ever been but they weren't nearly all with him, most were scared and the nazis held all the cards.

I think it was a higher percentage than that, but it wasn't a majority.

Even so, most of the political parties at the time, including the Nationalists, Center Party, and Catholic Party, were all vocally anti-Semitic. The only exceptions were the Social Democrats and the Communists, and they had plenty of anti-Semites as well. Germany as a nation in 1933 was HEAVILY anti-Semitic.

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I keep reading all these lies and misunderstandings about Adolf Hitler in nearly every political thread. So I decided it was important to set the record straight:

1. Hitler was not a religious Christian. (This is argued a lot by atheists and secularists.) Sometimes Hitler made references to God and Christianity for political purposes, but that's all it was. Though he came from a Catholic family (no Jewish ancestors, BTW!), there is no record of him having attended church on a regular basis (or even at all.) None of Hitler's actions or crimes were committed in the name of Christianity.

2. Hitler was not anti- Christian. (This is argued a lot by religious Christians.) The Third Reich heavily restricted both the Catholic and Lutheran churches, as institutions, but only in the same way that they restricted ALL previously independent institutions. One prominent member of the government, Alfred Rosenberg, was virulently anti-Christian, and he is often used as a source to prove this point, but none of his "recommendations" (having Mein Kampf replace the Bible, and a swastika replace the Cross, etc.), were ever implemented by the state. Christians were free to worship and did so throughout the 12 years the Nazis were in power.

3. Hitler did not seize guns. (This is argued by the NRA and its supporters.) In fact, private gun ownership actually increased during the Third Reich as restrictions were lifted which had been placed on gun owners during the Weimar regime. It is true that Jews were restricted from owning guns, but this did not occur until several years after the Nuremberg laws (expelling Jews from German social life) were already in place, and it was largely for show, since extremely few of Germany's Jews were armed in the first place.

4. Hitler was not a Darwinist. Some historians have made the somewhat questionable argument that Hitler was a "social Darwinist", though Hitler himself never used this term, nor does he ever refer to Darwin or evolution in any way. Intelligent Design proponents have turned this into an argument that Hitler was a result of teaching evolution; in his film promoting Intelligent Design, Ben Stein actually visits Auschwitz as a warning as to what will happen if evolution is taught. In point of fact, Darwin's works were banned in Nazi Germany and The Origin of the Species was one of the books publicly burned by Goebbels in 1933.

5. Hitler was not a socialist. Despite the name, National Socialism had very little socialism, and what it did have was thrown out when Hitler rose to power. It is true that the Nazis, like Socialists, were collectivist in nature, but they focused on race rather than class as their distinction. The Nazis were an extreme right-wing, not left-wing movement.

Hope that helps.

2. Hitler was very anti-Christianity, anti Catholic Church and and anti Protestant congregations, and there was no real freedom of worship. There were a lot of priests dragged away to camps, so were a lot of conscientious objecters, and I do believe there was a ministry that at some point "administered" churches including management, funding and the content of homilies/sermons at some point.

3. It wasn't a Nazi thing strictly but unlike the USA there was (and is) no fundamental right of gun ownership. That's cool as long as the government in power respects other rights which.... uhm.... wasn't exactly the Nazis style.

4. Oh no they weren't darwinists they just had kookie ideas about race, eugenics, and "aryanism." A lot of people still do but they don't try to make them reality through singular control of all levers of state power (because they cannot).

5. Hitler was not a "socialist" the same way modern Republicans and Democrats are not the same as "Republican-Democrats" that existed in the early part of our country. Hitler was influenced politically by fascist theorists coming out of Vienna and Trieste in the 1920's, basically he loved power for its own sake. If that meant using the state to aggrandize property, powers and labor, well he just did it. Some of his projects could be considered "socialistic." Here is an example (mind you this is from a liberal who thinks he is actuall lauding the president with thys trype):

>

Stimulus Thinking, and Nuance

Published: March 31, 2009

Every so often, history serves up an analogy that’s uncomfortable, a little distracting and yet still very relevant.

In the summer of 1933, just as they will do on Thursday, heads of government and their finance ministers met in London to talk about a global economic crisis. They accomplished little and went home to battle the crisis in their own ways.

More than any other country, Germany — Nazi Germany — then set out on a serious stimulus program. The government built up the military, expanded the autobahn, put up stadiums for the 1936 Berlin Olympics and built monuments to the Nazi Party across Munich and Berlin.

The economic benefits of this vast works program never flowed to most workers, because fascism doesn’t look kindly on collective bargaining. But Germany did escape the Great Depression faster than other countries. Corporate profits boomed, and unemployment sank (and not because of slave labor, which didn’t become widespread until later). Harold James, an economic historian, says that the young liberal economists studying under John Maynard Keynes in the 1930s began to debate whether Hitler had solved unemployment.

No sane person enjoys mixing nuance and Nazis, but this bit of economic history has a particular importance this week. In the run-up to the G-20 meeting, European leaders have resisted calls for more government spending. Last week, the European Union president, Mirek Topolanek, echoed a line from AC/DC — whom he had just heard in concert — and described the Obama administration’s stimulus plan as “a road to hell.”

Here in the United States, many people are understandably wondering whether the $800 billion stimulus program will make much of a difference. They want to know: Does stimulus work? Fortunately, this is one economic question that’s been answered pretty clearly in the last century.

Yes, stimulus works.

When governments have taken aggressive steps to soften an economic decline, they have succeeded. The Germans did it in the 1930s.

...

Hitler was also a vegetarian and a serious dog lover. This doesn't mean vegetarians and dog lovers aren't just awesome by and large.

Definitely a vegetarian, and lack of animal protein is what made him brilliantly insane.

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AcerFC, on 29 Apr 2013 - 14:45, said:

SaintsInDome2006, on 29 Apr 2013 - 14:36, said:

AcerFC, on 29 Apr 2013 - 14:32, said:

More truths: Hitler hated Jews because his mothers doctor could not save her from breast cancer. Dr. Bloch was a Jew. He tried to use iodoform to help her but she died of an overdose.

Hitler went to Vienna to become a great artist. There he started reading anti Semitic material by guys like Degobenau. He got rejected by every art school which made him mad. Combine that with being pissed at Dr. Bloch and you get the holocaust. Pretty crazy

I think there's potentially more to the story. Supposedly his father or grandfather (or something like that) was the illegitimate son/child of a wealthy Jewish man in Austria. The rumors of Jewish lineage haunted his family as it got blamed for being the reason his father could not get promoted in the Austrian state and especially his father who was extremely abusive toward him. Hitler was also seriously neurologically injured by gas attacks in World War 1; many in Germany falsely blamed "Jewish" bankers for forcing the Kaiser's regime to capitulate.

I would also change "Pretty Crazy" to Extremely Beyond Bat-###-f#%^&g Crazy.

from everything I have learned, Timmy is right on the fact that he had no close Jewish relatives. Maybe there was blood mixed in somewhere but no where near a few generations. His father died when he was very young which led to him being babied by his mother and led to an edipus (spelling?) complex. The fact that his mother had 3 kids die within 8 weeks of each other or something close like that didn't help her let him be independent.

He did get hit with mustard gas and was said to be catatonic. And right when he got his senses straight, the Germans surrendered and he reverted back to his state. He said later that his mustard gas experience was the same thing his mother felt when she was dying.

Well if anyone's interested...

I got that bit about the Jewish lineage from this particular book:

http://www.amazon.com/HITLER-PATHOLOGY-Potomac-Paperback-Classics/dp/1597970948/ref=sr_1_8?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1367264658&sr=1-8&keywords=hitler+psychology

Now, it is based on research and it's just one theory, but no you're right, it's never been proven.

Supposedly (not sure if it's from the above book I got this or not), this originated with a secret (seriously) report commissioned by Hitler himself to get to the bottom of his lineage:

Quote

In his discussion of the controversial assertion, in a pre-execution Nuremberg memoir by Hitler's one-time private attorney Hans Frank, that Frank had uncovered evidence to support the view that the mysterious stranger/paternal grandfather of Hitler was a Jew, Jetzinger cites "this curious fact which may be interpreted as bearing out Frank's story":

Not two months after Hitler invaded Austria, in May 1938, an order was issued to the Land Registries concerned to carry out a survey of Dollersheim (Alois Hitler's birthplace) and neighbourhood with a view to their suitability as a battle training area for the Wehrmacht. In the following year the inhabitants of Dollersheim were forcibly evacuated and the village together with the surrounding countryside was blasted and withered by German artillery and infantry weapons. The birthplace of Hitler's father and the site of his grandmother's grave were alike rendered unrecognizable, and today this whole tract of what was once fertile and flourishing country is an arid desert sown with unexploded shells.

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And then, as Robert Waite has pointed out, there is the serving-girl codicil which Hitler insisted on including in the 1935 Nuremberg racial laws, a codicil that not only specifically outlawed intercourse between Jews and Aryans but also explicitly forbade Jews even to employ Aryan women under the age of forty-five in their homes. It is a bizarre legislative provision, in that it seems to have a pornographic fantasy embedded within it. It's a subversively ambiguous fantasy at that: While it seems to say that Jews could not be trusted with nubile Aryan women in their employ, the fact that the prohibition extended not just to the act of miscegenation but to the possibility of a Jewish master and Aryan maidservant being in each other's presence carries an implicit hint that the Aryan maids themselves might not be trusted. This deeply embedded distrust, or at least deeply divided view of the serving girl and her relationship to the shadowy pater incertus who may be her master, is at the heart of the enigma of Maria Schicklgruber and the fantasies projected upon the blank line on the baptismal certificate she filed in Dollersheim.

No explicit eyewitness or documentary evidence has survived to support this dark view of Maria. The rumored paternity correspondence that would document the story of a liaison between Maria and a wealthy Jew she served, the "Jew from Graz" cited by Hitler's personal attorney Hans Frank in his Nuremberg memoir, has never surfaced. There is no testimony from Maria's contemporaries to indict her, to indicate she was anything other than a simple good-hearted peasant woman, even a courageous single mother who defied poverty and advancing age to bear a child without benefit of clergy or paternal support at an age, forty-two, when other peasant women might have resigned themselves to declining years of childless drudgery.

And yet there is testimony, reported testimony, from a descendent. A story about Maria, a sordid story of low, mean sexual intrigue, fraud, and blackmail that makes her out to be a cunning and deceitful anti-Semitic extortionist. It's a story we might otherwise ignore were it not for its source--a man specifically assigned by Adolf Hitler to investigate the circumstances of Maria's pregnancy, an attorney who claimed he got his seamy, disreputable portrait of Maria from a member of her own family. To be more precise: from Adolf Hitler himself.

From this great NYT article.

http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/r/rosenbaum-hitler.html

Supposedly this was all lost to the ages and war, so who really knows.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

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