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timschochet

Lies About Hitler

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I had a professor in college that fled Germany in 1938 when he was 10. He was friends with Werner Von Braun (Nazi V-1 maker) because they both worked with the space program. At the same time, I was taking a class on German history taught by a self hating Jew. I told him about the other Professor. He was shocked. He said: "Didn't he ask Werner about the slave labor?" I answered (because we had discussed this with the other professor) yes, and Werner said: "Slave labor? Everybody used slave labor. It was the only way to get anything done!"

Totally off topic, but I've always thought it was an interesting story.

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That labor model is alive and well at FBG.

Are you referring to the Gun Control thread? Some people in there post like their lives depend on it.

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Radical fascism is alive and well in Greece right now. Similar to Germany in the early 30s.

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Radical fascism is alive and well in Greece right now. Similar to Germany in the early 30s.

I prefer totally tubular capitalism. Edited by Henry Ford

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3. Hitler did not seize guns.

Just for amusement, not only did they seize guns, but on 11/10/38 they restricted Jews from owning knives, clubs or anything else that could be construed a weapon.

The Nazis inherited lists of firearm owners and their firearms when they 'lawfully' took over in March 1933. The Nazis used these inherited registration lists to seize privately held firearms from persons who were not "reliable." Knowing exactly who owned which firearms, the Nazis had only to revoke the annual ownership permits or decline to renew them.
In 1938, five years after taking power, the Nazis enhanced the 1928 law. The Nazi Weapons Law introduced handgun control. Firearms ownership was restricted to Nazi party members and other "reliable" people.
The 1938 Nazi law barred Jews from businesses involving firearms. On November 10. 1938 -- one day after the Nazi party terror squads (the SS) savaged thousands of Jews, synagogues and Jewish businesses throughout Germany -- new regulations under the Weapons Law specifically barred Jews from owning any weapons, even clubs or knives.
Just because a large percentage of Jews did not own guns does not mean those that did own a firearm and had registered said firearm did not have it confiscated.

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That labor model is alive and well at FBG.

Are you referring to the Gun Control thread? Some people in there post like their lives depend on it.

case and point ^^^^

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3. Hitler did not seize guns.

Just for amusement, not only did they seize guns, but on 11/10/38 they restricted Jews from owning knives, clubs or anything else that could be construed a weapon.

The Nazis inherited lists of firearm owners and their firearms when they 'lawfully' took over in March 1933. The Nazis used these inherited registration lists to seize privately held firearms from persons who were not "reliable." Knowing exactly who owned which firearms, the Nazis had only to revoke the annual ownership permits or decline to renew them.
In 1938, five years after taking power, the Nazis enhanced the 1928 law. The Nazi Weapons Law introduced handgun control. Firearms ownership was restricted to Nazi party members and other "reliable" people.
The 1938 Nazi law barred Jews from businesses involving firearms. On November 10. 1938 -- one day after the Nazi party terror squads (the SS) savaged thousands of Jews, synagogues and Jewish businesses throughout Germany -- new regulations under the Weapons Law specifically barred Jews from owning any weapons, even clubs or knives.
Just because a large percentage of Jews did not own guns does not mean those that did own a firearm and had registered said firearm did not have it confiscated.

I'd like to see more debate on this. I have no dog in the hunt, but find it fascinating how some people can say he didn't confiscate guns, and others can say he did. It seems like it should be pretty easy to prove.

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8. Hitler never played Risk as a child.

he'd have learned the dangers of a two front war.

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3. Hitler did not seize guns.

Just for amusement, not only did they seize guns, but on 11/10/38 they restricted Jews from owning knives, clubs or anything else that could be construed a weapon.

The Nazis inherited lists of firearm owners and their firearms when they 'lawfully' took over in March 1933. The Nazis used these inherited registration lists to seize privately held firearms from persons who were not "reliable." Knowing exactly who owned which firearms, the Nazis had only to revoke the annual ownership permits or decline to renew them.

In 1938, five years after taking power, the Nazis enhanced the 1928 law. The Nazi Weapons Law introduced handgun control. Firearms ownership was restricted to Nazi party members and other "reliable" people.

The 1938 Nazi law barred Jews from businesses involving firearms. On November 10. 1938 -- one day after the Nazi party terror squads (the SS) savaged thousands of Jews, synagogues and Jewish businesses throughout Germany -- new regulations under the Weapons Law specifically barred Jews from owning any weapons, even clubs or knives.

Just because a large percentage of Jews did not own guns does not mean those that did own a firearm and had registered said firearm did not have it confiscated.

This is exactly the sort of lie I was discussing. It's so blatantly false and misleading it should be obvious to anyone who knows the history.

By November 10, 1938. after the Night of Broken Glass ( the worst progrom in history) one could not exist as a Jew in Nazi Germany. You had to hide or face deportation or concentration camp. The idea that, in this atmosphere, the Gestapo went around to Jewish households seizing guns is just absurd. It never happened.

The law was put on the books as a formality, to make the German public feel safer, because a French Jew named Gryndpan had shot a German diplomat in Paris the week before, setting off the progrom. But the law was never specifically enforced.

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3. Hitler did not seize guns.

Just for amusement, not only did they seize guns, but on 11/10/38 they restricted Jews from owning knives, clubs or anything else that could be construed a weapon.

The Nazis inherited lists of firearm owners and their firearms when they 'lawfully' took over in March 1933. The Nazis used these inherited registration lists to seize privately held firearms from persons who were not "reliable." Knowing exactly who owned which firearms, the Nazis had only to revoke the annual ownership permits or decline to renew them.
In 1938, five years after taking power, the Nazis enhanced the 1928 law. The Nazi Weapons Law introduced handgun control. Firearms ownership was restricted to Nazi party members and other "reliable" people.
The 1938 Nazi law barred Jews from businesses involving firearms. On November 10. 1938 -- one day after the Nazi party terror squads (the SS) savaged thousands of Jews, synagogues and Jewish businesses throughout Germany -- new regulations under the Weapons Law specifically barred Jews from owning any weapons, even clubs or knives.
Just because a large percentage of Jews did not own guns does not mean those that did own a firearm and had registered said firearm did not have it confiscated.

Link? Do you actually work for the NRA? Is it your job to reeducate the FFA? It seems like it.

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3. Hitler did not seize guns.

Just for amusement, not only did they seize guns, but on 11/10/38 they restricted Jews from owning knives, clubs or anything else that could be construed a weapon.

The Nazis inherited lists of firearm owners and their firearms when they 'lawfully' took over in March 1933. The Nazis used these inherited registration lists to seize privately held firearms from persons who were not "reliable." Knowing exactly who owned which firearms, the Nazis had only to revoke the annual ownership permits or decline to renew them.

In 1938, five years after taking power, the Nazis enhanced the 1928 law. The Nazi Weapons Law introduced handgun control. Firearms ownership was restricted to Nazi party members and other "reliable" people.

The 1938 Nazi law barred Jews from businesses involving firearms. On November 10. 1938 -- one day after the Nazi party terror squads (the SS) savaged thousands of Jews, synagogues and Jewish businesses throughout Germany -- new regulations under the Weapons Law specifically barred Jews from owning any weapons, even clubs or knives.

Just because a large percentage of Jews did not own guns does not mean those that did own a firearm and had registered said firearm did not have it confiscated.

This is exactly the sort of lie I was discussing. It's so blatantly false and misleading it should be obvious to anyone who knows the history.

By November 10, 1938. after the Night of Broken Glass ( the worst progrom in history) one could not exist as a Jew in Nazi Germany. You had to hide or face deportation or concentration camp. The idea that, in this atmosphere, the Gestapo went around to Jewish households seizing guns is just absurd. It never happened.

The law was put on the books as a formality, to make the German public feel safer, because a French Jew named Gryndpan had shot a German diplomat in Paris the week before, setting off the progrom. But the law was never specifically enforced.

So to draw a parallel, you are ok with banning guns in the U.S., but not o.k. with confiscations since you believe it doesn't happen in history so therefore it could never happen in the future? Also does deportation fall above or below confiscations on the list of offenses: "banned from owning a weapon" and "confiscating weapons"? Lastly did the Nazis take the weapons before or after deporting the Jews or do you believe like other valuable items they just left them behind?

Edited by 5 digit know nothing

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3. Hitler did not seize guns.

Just for amusement, not only did they seize guns, but on 11/10/38 they restricted Jews from owning knives, clubs or anything else that could be construed a weapon.

The Nazis inherited lists of firearm owners and their firearms when they 'lawfully' took over in March 1933. The Nazis used these inherited registration lists to seize privately held firearms from persons who were not "reliable." Knowing exactly who owned which firearms, the Nazis had only to revoke the annual ownership permits or decline to renew them.

In 1938, five years after taking power, the Nazis enhanced the 1928 law. The Nazi Weapons Law introduced handgun control. Firearms ownership was restricted to Nazi party members and other "reliable" people.

The 1938 Nazi law barred Jews from businesses involving firearms. On November 10. 1938 -- one day after the Nazi party terror squads (the SS) savaged thousands of Jews, synagogues and Jewish businesses throughout Germany -- new regulations under the Weapons Law specifically barred Jews from owning any weapons, even clubs or knives.

Just because a large percentage of Jews did not own guns does not mean those that did own a firearm and had registered said firearm did not have it confiscated.

This is exactly the sort of lie I was discussing. It's so blatantly false and misleading it should be obvious to anyone who knows the history.

By November 10, 1938. after the Night of Broken Glass ( the worst progrom in history) one could not exist as a Jew in Nazi Germany. You had to hide or face deportation or concentration camp. The idea that, in this atmosphere, the Gestapo went around to Jewish households seizing guns is just absurd. It never happened.

The law was put on the books as a formality, to make the German public feel safer, because a French Jew named Gryndpan had shot a German diplomat in Paris the week before, setting off the progrom. But the law was never specifically enforced.

So to draw a parallel, you are ok with banning guns in the U.S., but not o.k. with confiscations since you believe it doesn't happen in history so therefore it could never happen in the future? Also does deportation fall above or below confiscations on the list of offenses: "banned from owning a weapon" and "confiscating weapons"? Lastly did the Nazis take the weapons before or after deporting the Jews or do you believe like other valuable items they just left them behind?

What's wrong with you?

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Even if one were to accept 5 Digit's warped view of history as fact, the implied argument that the NRA is making is STILL ludicrous, because the Gestapo supposedly only seized the guns AFTER the Night of Broken Glass. If, as the argument goes, guns are so vital and effective in resisting tyranny, why didn't the armed Jews of Germany defend themselves? And why would Hitler, after passing laws back in 1933 removing the civil rights of Jews in Germany, wait another 5 years before seizing their guns?

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3. Hitler did not seize guns.

Just for amusement, not only did they seize guns, but on 11/10/38 they restricted Jews from owning knives, clubs or anything else that could be construed a weapon.

The Nazis inherited lists of firearm owners and their firearms when they 'lawfully' took over in March 1933. The Nazis used these inherited registration lists to seize privately held firearms from persons who were not "reliable." Knowing exactly who owned which firearms, the Nazis had only to revoke the annual ownership permits or decline to renew them.

In 1938, five years after taking power, the Nazis enhanced the 1928 law. The Nazi Weapons Law introduced handgun control. Firearms ownership was restricted to Nazi party members and other "reliable" people.

The 1938 Nazi law barred Jews from businesses involving firearms. On November 10. 1938 -- one day after the Nazi party terror squads (the SS) savaged thousands of Jews, synagogues and Jewish businesses throughout Germany -- new regulations under the Weapons Law specifically barred Jews from owning any weapons, even clubs or knives.

Just because a large percentage of Jews did not own guns does not mean those that did own a firearm and had registered said firearm did not have it confiscated.

This is exactly the sort of lie I was discussing. It's so blatantly false and misleading it should be obvious to anyone who knows the history.

By November 10, 1938. after the Night of Broken Glass ( the worst progrom in history) one could not exist as a Jew in Nazi Germany. You had to hide or face deportation or concentration camp. The idea that, in this atmosphere, the Gestapo went around to Jewish households seizing guns is just absurd. It never happened.

The law was put on the books as a formality, to make the German public feel safer, because a French Jew named Gryndpan had shot a German diplomat in Paris the week before, setting off the progrom. But the law was never specifically enforced.

So to draw a parallel, you are ok with banning guns in the U.S., but not o.k. with confiscations since you believe it doesn't happen in history so therefore it could never happen in the future? Also does deportation fall above or below confiscations on the list of offenses: "banned from owning a weapon" and "confiscating weapons"? Lastly did the Nazis take the weapons before or after deporting the Jews or do you believe like other valuable items they just left them behind?

Are these serious questions?

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from: NAZI FIREARMS LAW AND THE DISARMING OF THE GERMAN JEWS

This article addresses German firearms laws and Nazi policies and practices to disarm German citizens, particularly political opponents and Jews. It begins with an account of post-World War I chaos, which led to the enactment in 1928 by the liberal Weimar republic of Germany’s first comprehensive gun control law. Next, the Nazi seizure of power in 1933 was consolidated by massive searches and seizures of firearms from political opponents, who were invariably described as “communists.” After five years of repression and eradication of dissidents, Hitler signed a new gun control law in 1938, which benefitted Nazi party members and entities, but denied firearm ownership to enemies of the state. Later that year, in Kristallnacht (the Night of the Broken Glass), in one fell swoop, the Nazi regime disarmed Germany’s Jews. Without any ability to defend themselves, the Jewish population could easily be sent to concentration camps for the Final Solution. After World War II began, Nazi authorities continued to register and mistrust civilian firearm owners, and German resistence to the Nazi regime was unsuccessful.7

If you disagree with this, what did Hitler do over that 5 year period?

Edited by 5 digit know nothing

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from: NAZI FIREARMS LAW AND THE DISARMING OF THE GERMAN JEWS

This article addresses German firearms laws and Nazi policies and practices to disarm German citizens, particularly political opponents and Jews. It begins with an account of post-World War I chaos, which led to the enactment in 1928 by the liberal Weimar republic of Germany’s first comprehensive gun control law. Next, the Nazi seizure of power in 1933 was consolidated by massive searches and seizures of firearms from political opponents, who were invariably described as “communists.” After five years of repression and eradication of dissidents, Hitler signed a new gun control law in 1938, which benefitted Nazi party members and entities, but denied firearm ownership to enemies of the state. Later that year, in Kristallnacht (the Night of the Broken Glass), in one fell swoop, the Nazi regime disarmed Germany’s Jews. Without any ability to defend themselves, the Jewish population could easily be sent to concentration camps for the Final Solution. After World War II began, Nazi authorities continued to register and mistrust civilian firearm owners, and German resistence to the Nazi regime was unsuccessful.7

:lmao:

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from: NAZI FIREARMS LAW AND THE DISARMING OF THE GERMAN JEWS

This article addresses German firearms laws and Nazi policies and practices to disarm German citizens, particularly political opponents and Jews. It begins with an account of post-World War I chaos, which led to the enactment in 1928 by the liberal Weimar republic of Germanys first comprehensive gun control law. Next, the Nazi seizure of power in 1933 was consolidated by massive searches and seizures of firearms from political opponents, who were invariably described as communists. After five years of repression and eradication of dissidents, Hitler signed a new gun control law in 1938, which benefitted Nazi party members and entities, but denied firearm ownership to enemies of the state. Later that year, in Kristallnacht (the Night of the Broken Glass), in one fell swoop, the Nazi regime disarmed Germanys Jews. Without any ability to defend themselves, the Jewish population could easily be sent to concentration camps for the Final Solution. After World War II began, Nazi authorities continued to register and mistrust civilian firearm owners, and German resistence to the Nazi regime was unsuccessful.7

If you disagree with this, what did Hitler do over that 5 year period?
It's just amazing how many falsehoods could exist in one short paragraph. Almost everything you just pasted is contradicted by what actually happened.

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from: NAZI FIREARMS LAW AND THE DISARMING OF THE GERMAN JEWS

This article addresses German firearms laws and Nazi policies and practices to disarm German citizens, particularly political opponents and Jews. It begins with an account of post-World War I chaos, which led to the enactment in 1928 by the liberal Weimar republic of Germanys first comprehensive gun control law. Next, the Nazi seizure of power in 1933 was consolidated by massive searches and seizures of firearms from political opponents, who were invariably described as communists. After five years of repression and eradication of dissidents, Hitler signed a new gun control law in 1938, which benefitted Nazi party members and entities, but denied firearm ownership to enemies of the state. Later that year, in Kristallnacht (the Night of the Broken Glass), in one fell swoop, the Nazi regime disarmed Germanys Jews. Without any ability to defend themselves, the Jewish population could easily be sent to concentration camps for the Final Solution. After World War II began, Nazi authorities continued to register and mistrust civilian firearm owners, and German resistence to the Nazi regime was unsuccessful.7

If you disagree with this, what did Hitler do over that 5 year period?
It's just amazing how many falsehoods could exist in one short paragraph. Almost everything you just pasted is contradicted by what actually happened.

No, don't you get it? If the Jews had had guns, the Holocaust wouldn't have happened. I know this because the NRA tells me so. IT MUST BE TRUE.

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I'm on a roll, why stop...


After Hitler launched World War II by attacking Poland in 1939, many
Germans blamed him for failing to spare Germany an armed conflict. Anti-Nazi
sentiment existed. Opined the London Times: “All this does not imply that Germany
is ready for a revolution. Civilians are disarmed, and so powerless . . . .”269 Germans
generally longed for, it was asserted, the return of legality, freedom, and human
dignity.270

When the Nazis conquered France (as in other countries), they proclaimed
that failure of civilians to surrender all firearms within twenty-four hours would be
punishable with the death penalty, and they executed many who failed to comply.271

The New York Times observed:

The best way to sum up the disciplinary laws imposed
upon France by the German conqueror is to say that the Nazi
decrees reduce the French people to as low a condition as that
occupied by the German people. Military orders now forbid the
French to do things which the German people have not been
allowed to do since Hitler came to power. To own radio senders or
to listen to foreign broadcasts, to organize public meetings and
distribute pamphlets. to disseminate anti-German news in any form,
to retain possession of firearms--all these things are prohibited for
the subjugated people of France, as they have been verboten these
half dozen years to the people of Germany.272

Edited by 5 digit know nothing

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I'm a roll, why stop...

After Hitler launched World War II by attacking Poland in 1939, manyGermans blamed him for failing to spare Germany an armed conflict. Anti-Nazisentiment existed. Opined the London Times: “All this does not imply that Germanyis ready for a revolution. Civilians are disarmed, and so powerless . . . .”269 Germansgenerally longed for, it was asserted, the return of legality, freedom, and humandignity.270 When the Nazis conquered France (as in other countries), they proclaimedthat failure of civilians to surrender all firearms within twenty-four hours would bepunishable with the death penalty, and they executed many who failed to comply.271 The New York Times observed:

The best way to sum up the disciplinary laws imposedupon France by the German conqueror is to say that the Nazidecrees reduce the French people to as low a condition as thatoccupied by the German people. Military orders now forbid theFrench to do things which the German people have not beenallowed to do since Hitler came to power. To own radio senders orto listen to foreign broadcasts, to organize public meetings anddistribute pamphlets. to disseminate anti-German news in any form,to retain possession of firearms--all these things are prohibited forthe subjugated people of France, as they have been verboten thesehalf dozen years to the people of Germany.272

I miss the ignore button. Now it's harder.

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I think this is where Tim gets confused.

You see in America when confiscations/seizures happens if you don't give up your weapons you either get fined or go to jail.

Conversely in Germany or France, if you don't give up your weapons you either get deported or you get executed.

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Sigh. What the Hell, let's break this down.

First, in response to 5 Digit's last post about France and Poland: when one country occupies another, civilians are usually disarmed. The United States disarmed German civilians, Japanese civilians, Iraqi civilians, etc. This is standard policy in war, and has nothing to do with a government attempting to disarm its own citizens.

Now, as to 5 Digits earlier post:

This article addresses German firearms laws and Nazi policies and practices to disarm German citizens, particularly political opponents and Jews. It begins with an account of post-World War I chaos, which led to the enactment in 1928 by the liberal Weimar republic of Germanys first comprehensive gun control law. The gun control law referenced was never enforced, and was repealed when the Nazis took power. Next, the Nazi seizure of power in 1933 was consolidated by massive searches and seizures of firearms from political opponents, who were invariably described as communists. By the time the Nazis took power, there were no vocal opponents of Hitler. But anyone suspected was thrown into a concentration camp- they were not disarmed so much as they were removed. After five years of repression and eradication of dissidents, Hitler signed a new gun control law in 1938, which benefitted Nazi party members and entities, but denied firearm ownership to enemies of the state. Why did he wait 5 years? Why didn't the "enemies of the state" resist with their guns during that time? Later that year, in Kristallnacht (the Night of the Broken Glass), in one fell swoop, the Nazi regime disarmed Germanys Jews. Without any ability to defend themselves, the Jewish population could easily be sent to concentration camps for the Final Solution. If the Jews had the ability to defend themselves, why didn't they resist Kristallnacht? After World War II began, Nazi authorities continued to register and mistrust civilian firearm owners, and German resistence to the Nazi regime was unsuccessful. German civilians were better armed during World War II than they had been previously- in order to strengthen the People's Army the Nazi regime increased civilian gun ownership and trained them to use them. The German resistance to the Nazi regime failed because the Nazi regime was extremely popular and there were too few resisters.

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Is it right to say that:

A) The Weimar's kept the guns for themselves.

B) Then the Nazi's kept the guns for themselves.

C) And the Jews never really got any at all.

I would also like to know if that New York Times article cited above is bogus or not.

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I think this is where Tim gets confused.

You see in America when confiscations/seizures happens if you don't give up your weapons you either get fined or go to jail.

Conversely in Germany or France, if you don't give up your weapons you either get deported or you get executed.

Actually this is wrong as well. When the United States Army disarmed German civilians in 1945 (the first time in history that German civilians were ever disarmed) the penalty for disobeying was death. That's what happens during occupation.

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If the Jews had the ability to defend themselves, why didn't they resist Kristallnacht?

Good question. Why didn't they?

Perhaps they should have had a music group called JWA sing a song called "#### the SS"?

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what a stupid debate

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8. Hitler never played Risk as a child.

he'd have learned the dangers of a two front war.

also don't try to take over the world by starting with Europe. To open to attack. Gotta seize South America or Australia first then move on.

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Timschochet is living proof of what happens when one takes everyone seriously.

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8. Hitler never played Risk as a child.

he'd have learned the dangers of a two front war.

also don't try to take over the world by starting with Europe. To open to attack. Gotta seize South America or Australia first then move on.

And, of course...never get involved in a land war in Asia.

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Even if one were to accept 5 Digit's warped view of history as fact, the implied argument that the NRA is making is STILL ludicrous, because the Gestapo supposedly only seized the guns AFTER the Night of Broken Glass. If, as the argument goes, guns are so vital and effective in resisting tyranny, why didn't the armed Jews of Germany defend themselves? And why would Hitler, after passing laws back in 1933 removing the civil rights of Jews in Germany, wait another 5 years before seizing their guns?

Maybe because they were like one percent of the population?

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Is it right to say that:

A) The Weimar's kept the guns for themselves.

B) Then the Nazi's kept the guns for themselves.

C) And the Jews never really got any at all.

I would also like to know if that New York Times article cited above is bogus or not.

A is false. The Weimar government allowed independent well-armed groups, opposed to the government, such as Nazis and Communists, and took no real step to stop them.

B is false. Only a small percentage of the German public actually belonged to the Nazi party. But the German public remained very well-armed during all the Nazi years.

C is true. Jews were never well-armed in Germany, as they tended to be more urbanized.

As for the New York Times article, it's true with regard to France after occupation. The last line "as it has been verboten in Germany" is completely false, and was most likely added to give readers the impression that the German people were themselves under suppression by the Nazi regime. This was a popular notion in America during the time period, but turned out to be demonstrably false.

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Sigh. What the Hell, let's break this down.

First, in response to 5 Digit's last post about France and Poland: when one country occupies another, civilians are usually disarmed. The United States disarmed German civilians, Japanese civilians, Iraqi civilians, etc. This is standard policy in war, and has nothing to do with a government attempting to disarm its own citizens.

Now, as to 5 Digits earlier post:

This article addresses German firearms laws and Nazi policies and practices to disarm German citizens, particularly political opponents and Jews. It begins with an account of post-World War I chaos, which led to the enactment in 1928 by the liberal Weimar republic of Germanys first comprehensive gun control law. The gun control law referenced was never enforced, and was repealed when the Nazis took power. Next, the Nazi seizure of power in 1933 was consolidated by massive searches and seizures of firearms from political opponents, who were invariably described as communists. By the time the Nazis took power, there were no vocal opponents of Hitler. But anyone suspected was thrown into a concentration camp- they were not disarmed so much as they were removed. After five years of repression and eradication of dissidents, Hitler signed a new gun control law in 1938, which benefitted Nazi party members and entities, but denied firearm ownership to enemies of the state. Why did he wait 5 years? Why didn't the "enemies of the state" resist with their guns during that time? Later that year, in Kristallnacht (the Night of the Broken Glass), in one fell swoop, the Nazi regime disarmed Germanys Jews. Without any ability to defend themselves, the Jewish population could easily be sent to concentration camps for the Final Solution. If the Jews had the ability to defend themselves, why didn't they resist Kristallnacht? After World War II began, Nazi authorities continued to register and mistrust civilian firearm owners, and German resistence to the Nazi regime was unsuccessful. German civilians were better armed during World War II than they had been previously- in order to strengthen the People's Army the Nazi regime increased civilian gun ownership and trained them to use them. The German resistance to the Nazi regime failed because the Nazi regime was extremely popular and there were too few resisters.

So you are saying the Nazi's invaded Germany first? Got it.

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what a stupid debate

Actually, I feel stupid for responding. It's like arguing with someone who denies evolution, or climate change. I can only go so far with this. I'm done now (I'm sure that will relieve some people here, LOL.) You can either accept what I've written, or choose to believe 5 Digit's pro-NRA propaganda. Or go read some books about the history of the Third Reich and draw your own conclusions.

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Is it right to say that:

A) The Weimar's kept the guns for themselves.

B) Then the Nazi's kept the guns for themselves.

C) And the Jews never really got any at all.

I would also like to know if that New York Times article cited above is bogus or not.

A is false. The Weimar government allowed independent well-armed groups, opposed to the government, such as Nazis and Communists, and took no real step to stop them.

B is false. Only a small percentage of the German public actually belonged to the Nazi party. But the German public remained very well-armed during all the Nazi years.

C is true. Jews were never well-armed in Germany, as they tended to be more urbanized.

As for the New York Times article, it's true with regard to France after occupation. The last line "as it has been verboten in Germany" is completely false, and was most likely added to give readers the impression that the German people were themselves under suppression by the Nazi regime. This was a popular notion in America during the time period, but turned out to be demonstrably false.

a) That is contrary to everything that I can find. All the sources I can find say the 1928 Law on Firearms & Ammunition pretty much banned guns for everyone. This isn't the case?

b) Okay. That was an oversimplification. The Nazi's allowed "good" Germans to own guns. Undoubtedly true. But wasn't a good section of the population left out in the cold.

c) What do you mean by "urbanized"?

I'm not trying to draw a conclusion here. Honestly. Whether or not the Jews were armed, they were going to be murdered.

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8. Hitler never played Risk as a child.

he'd have learned the dangers of a two front war.

also don't try to take over the world by starting with Europe. To open to attack. Gotta seize South America or Australia first then move on.

And, of course...never get involved in a land war in Asia.

try to save Asia for last for sure. I have seen lots of armies go there to die.

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The Warsaw Ghetto Rebellion is a great story, a triumph of human beings fighting to survive against desperate odds. But it had no chance of succeeding, which only goes to show how useless rifles and home made grenades are against better technology.

The whole Polish experience is a demonstration as to just how foolish the NRA argument is. In 1939, Poland was the most well-armed country in Europe, with the largest army outside of Russia. The Germans were somehow undeterred.

So now you're bashing the Poles? Jeez, run out of small dogs to kick?

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Hitler had a stint wrestling Lucha Libre style in Mexico under the name El Nazismo

His tag team partner was famous Mexican wrestler Mil Mascaras. Together they were known as Team Beaner-Schnitzel

Norwood's funny. You're lame.

You know what Tim, of all people on this board in dire need of fellatio, you're #1

And you're a complete tool.

:lmao::football:

Edited by Clifford

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Hitler had a stint wrestling Lucha Libre style in Mexico under the name El Nazismo

His tag team partner was famous Mexican wrestler Mil Mascaras. Together they were known as Team Beaner-Schnitzel

Norwood's funny. You're lame.

You know what Tim, of all people on this board in dire need of fellatio, you're #1

And you're a complete tool.

:goodposting:

You can always tell the people who dislike me around here by their lack of humor and predictability.

Must be tough looking in the mirror every day then

Ooo good comeback.

Now you see, you're one of the few who insult me around here who DOES have a sense of humor- though you didn't exactly demonstrate it there.

I got a chuckle out of both of them.

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Hitler had a stint wrestling Lucha Libre style in Mexico under the name El Nazismo

His tag team partner was famous Mexican wrestler Mil Mascaras. Together they were known as Team Beaner-Schnitzel

Norwood's funny. You're lame.

You know what Tim, of all people on this board in dire need of fellatio, you're #1

And you're a complete tool.

:lmao::football:

:brush:

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The Warsaw Ghetto Rebellion is a great story, a triumph of human beings fighting to survive against desperate odds. But it had no chance of succeeding, which only goes to show how useless rifles and home made grenades are against better technology.

The whole Polish experience is a demonstration as to just how foolish the NRA argument is. In 1939, Poland was the most well-armed country in Europe, with the largest army outside of Russia. The Germans were somehow undeterred.

So now you're bashing the Poles? Jeez, run out of small dogs to kick?

Hehe, very funny. It is very hard to take Tim seriously on one subject when he is so woefully wrong on others. Poland wasn't the most well armed country nor had the second largest army in 1939. Hell they had some cavalry brigades charge german tanks with lances. They possessed a pultry number of modern aircraft compared to the germans and had no tanks to speak of. sigh.

Edited by Runningman

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