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How Does Matt Barkley Fit In Philadelphia? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Cecil Lammey
- Start date
Buddy Ball 2K3
Footballguy
A bit? I am in the camp that if they did not believe Foles was their guy they would have traded them. There was interest from other teams and the Eagles turned them away. I am a firm believer that Foles will be the starter at some point this year with Barkley being back up for some time.
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Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
I would say its about 70-30 in favor of Foles winning the job. Given the time of the Vick deal, it had to be done then since Kelly hadnt even had a chance to see the team yet. Also, given what we've heard and seen with the Barkley pick that Vick looks to be the odd man out.
If we're actually listening to Kelly and we believe what he's saying then don't expect Vick to start here
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Agreed. Vick may not even be on the opening day roster let alone starter. If Kelly is being honest, Vick is the opposite of everything Chip has said he wants in a starter.
Cecil Lammey
Footballguy
I said this about Foles "[SIZE=1em]Quarterbacks must be precise and get the ball to the skill position players quickly via pass or handoff. If Vick gets banged up, then Barkley may be able to beat out last year's third-round pick Nick Foles."[/SIZE]jonboltz said:
[SIZE=1em]Not exactly discounting him IMHO. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=1em]This article was an examination of the offense and how Barkley's skill set would fit in the scheme. Foles has a stronger arm but lacks the accuracy and pass placement that Barkley has (again, just my opinion). It would certainly be an interesting competition if/when Vick is released. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=1em]I also agree with the poster that said Vick is not a great fit for this system (which I outlined in the article). [/SIZE]
[SIZE=1em]thanks for reading this
it was great to examine the Kelly system closely. [/SIZE]
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Matt Barkley was a waste of a pick. He will never beat out Nick Foles in a competition. He has way more flaws and limitations than Foles. If there was a legit competition for the starting job in the preseason last year Vick would have lost to a rookie. I sound like a broken tape, Foles averaged 20ppg in his last 4 starts. Outside of the Eagles thread he gets no love. When you watch the film he made players relevant, unlike Vick. The offense didn't stall and even Alex Henry got a chance at some fg's. he did all his dirt with a backup O-Line, backup skill players, a sorry defense and a lame duck coach. I know you're on record saying Foles isn't that good but he is a really accurate passer and gets the ball out quick. The cherry on top is he ran a uptempo offense at Arizona.
I'm tired of hearing about Chip Kelly's system. He tips his plays like Madden tournament players, ok... His offense is no better than any other offense. The only difference is the pace and number of plays called. He's like Mike D'Antoni. Let a Steve Nash lead Offense shoot with a lot of time left on the shot clock and you'll score a lot of points. Seems brilliant on the surface but when you break it down all he did was run pick and rolls all game and shoot 3's more frequently with really efficient players. It has more to do with the players than a magical system.
Unless Kelly is blowing smoke, I like his theory of being a equal opportunity offense. All he cares about is putting the ball in the end zone. Doesn't matter if he has to pass 50x or run 50x. He's basically saying in every predraft interview that if you give me Tom Brady I will throw all game and I don't need a running QB. That's like if Kelly got the NE job he would trade Brady because he doesn't fit his system. That would be dumb. That was when I start buying Foles on the cheap because he could lead the next fast pace offense. Barkley can succeed for short stretches because of the run game and o-line can mask his deficiencies but sooner or later he will get exposed as a passer. The hope is there because unlike Ried, Kelly won't ask Vick, or someone like Barkley, to throw 50x a game. a Vick/Barkley lead offense will struggle and i would shy away from all Eagles if that happens. Actually I'd go all in on Shady/Brown because his game plans are based on personnel.
I'm tired of hearing about Chip Kelly's system. He tips his plays like Madden tournament players, ok... His offense is no better than any other offense. The only difference is the pace and number of plays called. He's like Mike D'Antoni. Let a Steve Nash lead Offense shoot with a lot of time left on the shot clock and you'll score a lot of points. Seems brilliant on the surface but when you break it down all he did was run pick and rolls all game and shoot 3's more frequently with really efficient players. It has more to do with the players than a magical system.
Unless Kelly is blowing smoke, I like his theory of being a equal opportunity offense. All he cares about is putting the ball in the end zone. Doesn't matter if he has to pass 50x or run 50x. He's basically saying in every predraft interview that if you give me Tom Brady I will throw all game and I don't need a running QB. That's like if Kelly got the NE job he would trade Brady because he doesn't fit his system. That would be dumb. That was when I start buying Foles on the cheap because he could lead the next fast pace offense. Barkley can succeed for short stretches because of the run game and o-line can mask his deficiencies but sooner or later he will get exposed as a passer. The hope is there because unlike Ried, Kelly won't ask Vick, or someone like Barkley, to throw 50x a game. a Vick/Barkley lead offense will struggle and i would shy away from all Eagles if that happens. Actually I'd go all in on Shady/Brown because his game plans are based on personnel.
JetMaxx
Footballguy
Do you love Foles or hate Barkley? I ask because on the surface blasting the Barkley pick seemingly shows you have no clue of how value/BPA based drafting works on the NFL level. I'm higher on Foles than most but love the Barkley pick in the 4th based upon upside alone.
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Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
This
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Very good and interesting read. Made me more interested in drafting Barkley, but more importantly it made me discount Vick even further....and I now have more faith in the likelihood that DJax and Maclin will have a QB who can get them the ball.I said this about Foles "[SIZE=1em]Quarterbacks must be precise and get the ball to the skill position players quickly via pass or handoff. If Vick gets banged up, then Barkley may be able to beat out last year's third-round pick Nick Foles."[/SIZE]jonboltz said:
[SIZE=1em]Not exactly discounting him IMHO. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=1em]This article was an examination of the offense and how Barkley's skill set would fit in the scheme. Foles has a stronger arm but lacks the accuracy and pass placement that Barkley has (again, just my opinion). It would certainly be an interesting competition if/when Vick is released. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=1em]I also agree with the poster that said Vick is not a great fit for this system (which I outlined in the article). [/SIZE]
[SIZE=1em]thanks for reading this
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
What upside? Brady Qinn(remember he was "the most pro ready" too lol)? Fitzpatrick? Matt Flynn? He's not a bust but the upside you're speaking of is limited. No offense is going to fix that. You'll just be wasting your time with a Qb that can't lead you to the Superbowl. Just because he faded into the 4th he's a value pick? He's been on the radar since HS and played for a QB factory, it's not like he's some Mid-Major sleeper. You could have found a ok QB a lot later in this draft while filling other holes.
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Cecil Lammey
Footballguy
Thanks much! That is a fun offense to watch, and one that some saw as 'pass happy' because of the spread. In fact, it's built off old school ground and pound.Very good and interesting read. Made me more interested in drafting Barkley, but more importantly it made me discount Vick even further....and I now have more faith in the likelihood that DJax and Maclin will have a QB who can get them the ball.I said this about Foles "[SIZE=1em]Quarterbacks must be precise and get the ball to the skill position players quickly via pass or handoff. If Vick gets banged up, then Barkley may be able to beat out last year's third-round pick Nick Foles."[/SIZE]jonboltz said:
[SIZE=1em]Not exactly discounting him IMHO. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=1em]This article was an examination of the offense and how Barkley's skill set would fit in the scheme. Foles has a stronger arm but lacks the accuracy and pass placement that Barkley has (again, just my opinion). It would certainly be an interesting competition if/when Vick is released. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=1em]I also agree with the poster that said Vick is not a great fit for this system (which I outlined in the article). [/SIZE]
[SIZE=1em]thanks for reading this
renesauz
IBL Representative
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Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
@JordanRaanan: Eagles coach Chip Kelly once thought Matt Barkley was better than Andrew Luck and Nick Foles | http://t.co/MjpoKODFSc http://t.co/dTYxWENVWI
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I liked what I saw from Foles last season a lot, but the bolded text could be his downfall in this system. He's really slow even on handoffs.
DawnBTVS
Footballguy
As much as Chip did at Oregon, I think a lot of people are also discounting what he did with QB Ricky Santos at New Hampshire. Kelly has experience with a "WCO" style QB who isn't really that athletic.
More often than not, Santos averaged 2.0-2.5 yards per run. The bigger factor was his smarts and passing ability, though.
2004: 64% - 3,318 yards with 31 TD vs 10 INT
2005: 70% - 3,797 yards with 39 TD vs 9 INT
2006: 68% - 3,125 yards with 29 TD vs 7 INT [Chip Kelly leaves after this season for Oregon as OC]
2007: 73% - 2,972 yards with 24 TD vs 7 INT
Barkley won't wow athletically but he also won't be asked to run the ball very often either, maybe 3-4 times a game if that (48-64 carries). What he will be asked to do is mentally make that fast offense go and use his brains and arm to attack the defense.
More often than not, Santos averaged 2.0-2.5 yards per run. The bigger factor was his smarts and passing ability, though.
2004: 64% - 3,318 yards with 31 TD vs 10 INT
2005: 70% - 3,797 yards with 39 TD vs 9 INT
2006: 68% - 3,125 yards with 29 TD vs 7 INT [Chip Kelly leaves after this season for Oregon as OC]
2007: 73% - 2,972 yards with 24 TD vs 7 INT
Barkley won't wow athletically but he also won't be asked to run the ball very often either, maybe 3-4 times a game if that (48-64 carries). What he will be asked to do is mentally make that fast offense go and use his brains and arm to attack the defense.
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ShaHBucks
Footballguy
http://fishduck.com/playbook/#playbook-offenceanalysis
I looked at this offense a while ago. If anyone wants to look into the Chip Kelly offense I'd say this site is worth a look.
I looked at this offense a while ago. If anyone wants to look into the Chip Kelly offense I'd say this site is worth a look.
babydemon90
Footballguy
4th rounders aren't considered a wasted pick just for not winning jobs as rookies....
Faust
MVP
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...erfect-fit-for-philadelphia-eagles-new-system
Matt Barkley is a perfect fit for Philadelphia Eagles' new system
Matt Barkley is a perfect fit for Philadelphia Eagles' new system
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Raymell McKigney
Footballguy
great article too from Chris Brown - Smart Football on Barkley
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/60151/what-matt-barkley-and-the-eagles-offseason-say-about-chip-kellys-plans
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/60151/what-matt-barkley-and-the-eagles-offseason-say-about-chip-kellys-plans
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plastik
Footballguy
Awesome videos with super clear explanations (though I could do without his dog). Thanks.
DawnBTVS
Footballguy
Another article: X's and O's: Chip Kelly's Offense and the NFL
Not nearly as in-depth as others but delves into some of the formations and unique looks Chip showed at New Hampshire during 2005 & 2006 (when Santos won the Walter Payton Award). Most interesting part was the 2 TE looks out of the Shotgun formation. Allows for a quick WCO passing system, vertical attack passing, or a power running game inside (and outside) thanks to the blocking of the TEs.
Not nearly as in-depth as others but delves into some of the formations and unique looks Chip showed at New Hampshire during 2005 & 2006 (when Santos won the Walter Payton Award). Most interesting part was the 2 TE looks out of the Shotgun formation. Allows for a quick WCO passing system, vertical attack passing, or a power running game inside (and outside) thanks to the blocking of the TEs.
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Faust
MVP
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/...ding-the-fits-barkley-is-the-future-in-philly
Finding the Fits: Barkley is the future in Philly
By Rob Rang | The Sports Xchange/CBSSports.com
May 15, 2013 8:58 pm ET
Excerpt:
Finding the Fits: Barkley is the future in Philly
By Rob Rang | The Sports Xchange/CBSSports.com
May 15, 2013 8:58 pm ET
Excerpt:
Faust
MVP
http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/77392/forecasting-the-eagles-offense
Forecasting the Eagles' offense
Excerpts:
Forecasting the Eagles' offense
Excerpts:
TakiToki
Footballguy
Abspara
Footballguy
I agree with this as well. Barring some miraculous surge of playing ability and health, I think this is Vicks final year in Philly, which should likely open the door to Barkley to take over next season.
Barkley is a competitor and has shown he works hard to succeed. I have no doubt he'll do the same in Philly.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
(TheHuddle)Philadelphia Eagles QB Matt Barkley likely will not be a factor in the team's starting quarterback competition during training camp but could be a key piece in the team's long-term future because he was impressive during organized team activities.
Analysis: No shocker here: If Barkley was ready to step in and be an immediate NFL starter, he wouldn't have lasted until the draft's 98th pick/4th round.
Analysis: No shocker here: If Barkley was ready to step in and be an immediate NFL starter, he wouldn't have lasted until the draft's 98th pick/4th round.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Time to find out.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Arm strength is poor. Someone could prove me wrong with the stats, but based on watching the game, pretty much all of the passes he completed were 10 yards or less. Guy is dropping snaps and fumbling. Just looks feeble, though to be fair he may have been better than Foles the week before.
GoBirds
Footballguy
Read an interview a few weeks back where Kelly was saying they looked at this as like a redshirt year for him to try to regain arm strength from his injury last year. Is that realistic he could improve on the noodle arm?
You have to expect some improvement next week. I'm not saying he needs to go out and win the game, or throw 300 yards, but as much as I think its unfair to judge a raw 3rd string rookie coming in an emergency in 2 games, its entirely fair to evaluate him in this next game with full prep.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Just don't expect the same Raiders defense you've seen the past few years. They are playing shockingly well.
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