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Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory

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2 minutes ago, Chadstroma said:

There would be no reason for Jon and Dany to team up unless Jon finds out that he is Rhaegar's son. Even then that could actually present threat more than alliance. Who is the legitimate heir?

That said, my guess is that Jon has no interest in the throne. Offers Dany the alliance but with it more about defeating the White Walkers. Sansa (perhaps Bran or Rickon) take ownership of the North as the Warden of the North in a unified 7 Kingdoms under Dany. Not sure what Job does after. He would be Stark by blood but not name and a Targaryen without a throne.

I agree that Jon likely has no interest in the throne but he would have great interest in restoring the Stark family honor and teaming with Dany to take down the Lannisters in King's Landing (assuming they defeat the Sparrow which seems a likely bet) would be in his interests). I also think a Jon, Dany, Tyrion team-up seems in the cards and not just because they are the three most compelling characters on the show. OK, it's because they are the three most compelling characters on the show. So much of the story has always revolved around them it seems inevitable they will all meet up at some point. I just think that's where the story is taking us. 

Honestly, for me, who ends up on the Iron Throne has always been the least interesting part of this whole story. Wouldn't surprise me if Martin feels the same way given how many people have ran through it already. 

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1 minute ago, packersfan said:

But of course you still have the new King of the Greyjoys and whatever is happening in Dorne to worry about at some point too. 

Greyjoy situation will probably not end well for the new Greyjoy king. Since Yara (I think) is going to lead Euron (new king) to Meereen, it's going to be a fraction of the Iron Islands vs the other fraction of the Iron Islands, Unsullied, Second Sons, and Dothraki. Good luck with that, new king.

As for Dorne, who knows with Ellaria and the Sand Snakes in control. Given that Ellaria's motivation for killing Oberyn's brother was because he was doing nothing about Oberyn's death, I have a feeling she may be receptive to an alliance with Dany, given the past Targaryan/Martell alliance. As far as Jon and Dorne, I would think they could meet at "hey, the Lannisters ####ed us both" and become allies as well.

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On May 23, 2016 at 0:06 AM, dickey moe said:

Nice.

I'm currently rolling with one of these

 

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10 minutes ago, packersfan said:

I agree that Jon likely has no interest in the throne but he would have great interest in restoring the Stark family honor and teaming with Dany to take down the Lannisters in King's Landing (assuming they defeat the Sparrow which seems a likely bet) would be in his interests). I also think a Jon, Dany, Tyrion team-up seems in the cards and not just because they are the three most compelling characters on the show. OK, it's because they are the three most compelling characters on the show. So much of the story has always revolved around them it seems inevitable they will all meet up at some point. I just think that's where the story is taking us. 

Honestly, for me, who ends up on the Iron Throne has always been the least interesting part of this whole story. Wouldn't surprise me if Martin feels the same way given how many people have ran through it already. 

I think Jon would be headed for a beach in scenic Dorne if it wasn't for Sansa pushing and Rickon being in danger. I think the only thing he will fight after saving/trying to save Rickon is the White Walkers. I see defeating the Lannisters as a step towards being able to then unleash Dany's dragons on them. After, I think he is done fighting or trying to do the right then and will want to find that Dornish beach. Let the half brothers and sisters rebuild the Stark stronghold and name. Let Dany rule the unified 7 Kingdoms. I ain't gonna get killed again for doing the right then. That is my take on Jon's mindset.

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2 minutes ago, Chadstroma said:

I think Jon would be headed for a beach in scenic Dorne if it wasn't for Sansa pushing and Rickon being in danger. I think the only thing he will fight after saving/trying to save Rickon is the White Walkers. I see defeating the Lannisters as a step towards being able to then unleash Dany's dragons on them. After, I think he is done fighting or trying to do the right then and will want to find that Dornish beach. Let the half brothers and sisters rebuild the Stark stronghold and name. Let Dany rule the unified 7 Kingdoms. I ain't gonna get killed again for doing the right then. That is my take on Jon's mindset.

Assuming the rumors of his parentage are true and he and Dany are related then what her goals are could become his goals. So his desires for a cushy life on the beach could change.    

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2 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

Piss poor army?  Weren't the Unsullied set up to be some of the best warriors in the world?   Just looked it up and supposedly 3000 Unsullied took care of a 20K Dothraki army.  Evidently Dany got 8000 Unsullied + a bunch in training a few seasons ago. 

The Unsullied get a raw deal in the show. They seem to get their asses kicked in every major confrontation 

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1 hour ago, packersfan said:

I was hoping Arya seeing how badly the play was misrepresenting her family's history at King's Landing would lead to step away from becoming a faceless assassin but for the time being she seems hell bent on going that route. I'm still hoping she abandons it since I personally want to see all of the remaining Stark kids end up together.

 

it was interesting that when Jaqen basically told her she had to decide whether she was in or out - she responded "a girl has already decided."  Didn't say what she had decided - i think after watching the play, she knew she couldn't just become a faceless girl

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36 minutes ago, Chadstroma said:

There would be no reason for Jon and Dany to team up unless Jon finds out that he is Rhaegar's son. Even then that could actually present threat more than alliance. Who is the legitimate heir?

That said, my guess is that Jon has no interest in the throne. Offers Dany the alliance but with it more about defeating the White Walkers. Sansa (perhaps Bran or Rickon) take ownership of the North as the Warden of the North in a unified 7 Kingdoms under Dany. Not sure what Job does after. He would be Stark by blood but not name and a Targaryen without a throne.

If Jon Snow is a bastard of Rheagar...and there's no reason to think he isn't (unless Rheagar secretly married Lyanna Stark while married to his other wife).....Dany would be the legitimate heir, but there's no reason why Dany couldn't take Jon (another Targaryan) as a husband.*

 

 

* BOOK STUFF - Targaryans frequently married their relatives. 

Edited by Thunderlips

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2 minutes ago, Bushead said:

it was interesting that when Jaqen basically told her she had to decide whether she was in or out - she responded "a girl has already decided."  Didn't say what she had decided - i think after watching the play, she knew she couldn't just become a faceless girl

I hope so but mainly because I'm bored by this storyline. I thought Arya's most compelling storylines were with Tywin and the Hound. Both of those were driven by her connections to her Stark heritage so I'm hoping that becomes more prominent again with her story at some point. 

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Arya does not seem to be setting up to give up her identity.  Did I misinterpret or did "A Man" threaten her when he said that there wouldnt be a third chance.  He followed it up saying a face will be added to the wall either way.

I took that to mean, do your duty or it will be you who gets the gift.

That doesnt seem like the kind of organization you can just walk away from.

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20 minutes ago, Thunderlips said:

If Jon Snow is a bastard of Rheagar...and there's no reason to think he isn't (unless Rheagar secretly married Lyanna Stark while married to his other wife).....Dany would be the legitimate heir, but there's no reason why Dany couldn't take Jon (another Targaryan) as a husband.*

 

 

* BOOK STUFF - Targaryans frequently married their relatives. 

If Jon finds out that he is a Targaryan it doesn't mean he is all of a sudden going to be like "Yea, give me some of that unburnt Aunt stuff"

I am not 100% sure on the claim. Martin takes inspiration for a lot of his stuff off of historic Europe. I am not really sure if a woman would automatically be given preference over an illegitimate son. Though, historically usually the answer to the question of who has a better claim as an heir is "whoever has a bigger/better Army".

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6 minutes ago, Chadstroma said:

If Jon finds out that he is a Targaryan it doesn't mean he is all of a sudden going to be like "Yea, give me some of that unburnt Aunt stuff"

I am not 100% sure on the claim. Martin takes inspiration for a lot of his stuff off of historic Europe. I am not really sure if a woman would automatically be given preference over an illegitimate son. Though, historically usually the answer to the question of who has a better claim as an heir is "whoever has a bigger/better Army".

Its somewhat book stuff and "backstory", but suffice it to say there are good theories indicating Jon is a legitimate Targ (R and L were married) and that he is a legitimate Stark (via Robb, before the wedding.)  The latter was pretty clearly indicated in the show, whereas the former has been implied in the show.

 

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Just now, CletiusMaximus said:

Its somewhat book stuff and "backstory", but suffice it to say there are good theories indicating Jon is a legitimate Targ (R and L were married) and that he is a legitimate Stark (via Robb, before the wedding.)  The latter was pretty clearly indicated in the show, whereas the former has been implied in the show.

 

If legitimate son of Rhaegar then he is the clear heir. But how is that "proven"?

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12 minutes ago, Chadstroma said:

If Jon finds out that he is a Targaryan it doesn't mean he is all of a sudden going to be like "Yea, give me some of that unburnt Aunt stuff"

I am not 100% sure on the claim. Martin takes inspiration for a lot of his stuff off of historic Europe. I am not really sure if a woman would automatically be given preference over an illegitimate son. Though, historically usually the answer to the question of who has a better claim as an heir is "whoever has a bigger/better Army".

Right....I'm talking more on the accepted practice....not whether he or Jon would be interested. 

 

The second point would/could be alleviated if Rheagar was legit married to Lyanna......although I don't know if that'd be plausible.

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4 minutes ago, Chadstroma said:

If legitimate son of Rhaegar then he is the clear heir. But how is that "proven"?

I think that's where Sam comes in on his jersey to Maesters University. 

Edited by Thunderlips

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3 minutes ago, Chadstroma said:

If legitimate son of Rhaegar then he is the clear heir. But how is that "proven"?

We might know how its proven if/when Bran finishes his Tower of Joy flashback. Howland Reed is still alive, perhaps others.

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All these nobles getting pancake #### pushed in their face when boobs like the Sansa lookalike are just out there everywhere. That's the truth that King Robert knew, that's the truth that King Robert died for. Never will the world see his equal.

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3 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

Piss poor army?  Weren't the Unsullied set up to be some of the best warriors in the world?   Just looked it up and supposedly 3000 Unsullied took care of a 20K Dothraki army.  Evidently Dany got 8000 Unsullied + a bunch in training a few seasons ago. 

 

They would actually be a perfect match for the Dothraki since they fight int phalanx formations with spearks/pikes.  That's pretty much what you want against light cavalry.   The same advantage wouldn't necessarily translate to heavy cavalry or foot soldiers.

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So they make a huge deal out of all the Baratheons having Black hair and we think Jon is the badtard son of some platinum blonde Targayan sissy and his ginger mother?

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3 minutes ago, Dan Lambskin said:

So they make a huge deal out of all the Baratheons having Black hair and we think Jon is the badtard son of some platinum blonde Targayan sissy and his ginger mother?

 

Umm..... What?

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4 minutes ago, Dan Lambskin said:

So they make a huge deal out of all the Baratheons having Black hair and we think Jon is the badtard son of some platinum blonde Targayan sissy and his ginger mother?

Way early in the thread I made a similar observation.  Can't connect the dots on why Ned would have kept him a secret though.

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So...does the Night's King have a greater sense about the world at-large? Does he know what's on the other side of the wall? Can he find King's Landing on a map? Can he read? Does he have any sort of master plan, or is it just "humans bad"?

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I'm wondering why we are seeing more of Sam and Gilly next week....I'm sure they fit into the overall plot somehow I just have no idea how they would.  

I guess we'll find out, it just seems like there's so much more important stuff to cover in a short amount of screen time.

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29 minutes ago, Skoo said:

I'm wondering why we are seeing more of Sam and Gilly next week....I'm sure they fit into the overall plot somehow I just have no idea how they would.  

I guess we'll find out, it just seems like there's so much more important stuff to cover in a short amount of screen time.

Maybe Gilly's first born is a leader of the white walkers

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I found season 5 really disappointing compared to 1-4.  Is season 6 any better than 5?

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33 minutes ago, Good Posting Judge said:

So...does the Night's King have a greater sense about the world at-large? Does he know what's on the other side of the wall? Can he find King's Landing on a map? Can he read? Does he have any sort of master plan, or is it just "humans bad"?

From my conversations with him... no.

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36 minutes ago, Good Posting Judge said:

So...does the Night's King have a greater sense about the world at-large? Does he know what's on the other side of the wall? Can he find King's Landing on a map? Can he read? Does he have any sort of master plan, or is it just "humans bad"?

If I had to guess, I think it's just "human's bad". Except for people like Craster that give him babies.
I wonder if the Wall's magic will be enough to hold them back when the zombie army gets big enough.

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38 minutes ago, Skoo said:

I'm wondering why we are seeing more of Sam and Gilly next week....I'm sure they fit into the overall plot somehow I just have no idea how they would.  

I guess we'll find out, it just seems like there's so much more important stuff to cover in a short amount of screen time.

In the books Sam is the one who cures Jorah...

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37 minutes ago, Skoo said:

I'm wondering why we are seeing more of Sam and Gilly next week....I'm sure they fit into the overall plot somehow I just have no idea how they would.  

I guess we'll find out, it just seems like there's so much more important stuff to cover in a short amount of screen time.

Yeah, I hope they let Sam work his way up to be grand maester behind the scenes. We don't need to see more of him this season.

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56 minutes ago, encaitar said:

 

Umm..... What?

Ned was a ginger so I just assumed his sister was a ginger too

plus Sansa is a ginger (or redhead at least)

i guess the rest of the stark kids had dark hair though so maybe Robert is really their dads too

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2 minutes ago, EYLive said:

Yeah, I hope they let Sam work his way up to be grand maester behind the scenes. We don't need to see more of him this season.

Could make for a good comedic spinoff show

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On May 20, 2016 at 10:50 AM, Notorious T.R.E. said:

Probably more entertaining if you know something/anything about what is going on.

Eh, I'm bad with names and really don't know the people's names on the show, either.  Like the others I know them by what they've done.  I'd say that I easily didn't know about ten names on that odds chart posted about ten pages ago but if they were described as, "Dany's hot assistant with the perm" or "the orgy chick who killed the Lannister daughter" I'd know exactly who they were and their plot.  

I'll be honest, too, I'd struggle at matching the house names with their corresponding cities.  

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1 hour ago, Dan Lambskin said:

So they make a huge deal out of all the Baratheons having Black hair and we think Jon is the badtard son of some platinum blonde Targayan sissy and his ginger mother?

Where are you getting the idea that jon's mother had red hair? King robert's drunken ramblings from season 1? Ned said he wouldn't talk about who jon's mother was and Robert dropped the subject.

The targareyan children had platinum blond hair because they wed  brother to sister for generations  (passing on the unique recessive trait). It's perfectly reasonable to expect a targ-stark love child to have dark hair

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16 minutes ago, bosoxs45 said:

I found season 5 really disappointing compared to 1-4.  Is season 6 any better than 5?

Yeah this season has been good so far. 

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1 minute ago, TLEF316 said:

Where are you getting the idea that jon's mother had red hair? King robert's drunken ramblings from season 1? Ned said he wouldn't talk about who jon's mother was and Robert dropped the subject.

The targareyan children had platinum blond hair because they wed  brother to sister for generations  (passing on the unique recessive trait). It's perfectly reasonable to expect a targ-stark love child to have dark hair

I disagree

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2 minutes ago, Dan Lambskin said:

Ned was a ginger so I just assumed his sister was a ginger too

plus Sansa is a ginger (or redhead at least)

i guess the rest of the stark kids had dark hair though so maybe Robert is really their dads too

 

No.  Ned was not a ginger.  And Arya is said to look very much like her aunt and she is clearly no ginger.  Sansa gets her red hair from Catelyn.  Robb too.

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8 minutes ago, Zow said:

Eh, I'm bad with names and really don't know the people's names on the show, either.  Like the others I know them by what they've done.  I'd say that I easily didn't know about ten names on that odds chart posted about ten pages ago but if they were described as, "Dany's hot assistant with the perm" or "the orgy chick who killed the Lannister daughter" I'd know exactly who they were and their plot.  

I'll be honest, too, I'd struggle at matching the house names with their corresponding cities.  

I thought it was just me and I thought I liked the show.   But after this thread I clearly do not like it to the extreme others do. 

Edited by JNox3

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I would think that even the people who didn't like last season would agree the 8th episode (Snow's battle against the white walkers) was pretty damn good. I thought that was an all-time GOT classic.   

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29 minutes ago, bosoxs45 said:

I found season 5 really disappointing compared to 1-4.  Is season 6 any better than 5?

Yeah, if you trudged through season 5, keep going.  IMO this year is still a step down from 1-4, but a bit better than 5. 

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24 minutes ago, EYLive said:

Yeah, I hope they let Sam work his way up to be grand maester behind the scenes. We don't need to see more of him this season.

Or do it with a montage. Just rapid-fire clips of Sam flipping through books (MONTAGE!) and writing things down (MONTAGE!) and failing at alchemy (MONTAGE!) and then more reading (MONTAGE!) and more writing (MONTAGE!) and then slightly more success at alchemy (MONTAGE!) and then a handy from Gilly (MONTAGE!) and then more reading (MONTAGE!) and footage of him finally finding the right formula for dragon glass, where he looks at Gilly and nods knowingly (MONTAGE!)

Edited by Plorfu
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5 minutes ago, packersfan said:

I would think that even the people who didn't like last season would agree the 8th episode (Snow's battle against the white walkers) was pretty damn good. I thought that was an all-time GOT classic.   

Best episode of last year for sure, but the huge battles isn't what I love about the show and got me hooked.  Those episodes are great once a year, but I like the ones like episode 2 this year that feature great acting and dialogue.  I think the epic episodes of the past seasons did a better job of mixing the two as well - ie Blackwater we got more of the behind the scenes as well.  I could not be remembering what all happened in that Hardhome episode last year too. 

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14 minutes ago, JNox3 said:

I thought it was just me and I thought I liked the show.   But after this thread I clearly do not like it to the extreme others do. 

I consider myself a fairly intelligent person and when I watch the show I'm not doing anything else (sometimes if the kids get to bed late I'm pretty tired when watching and doze off mid-way through and have to re-watch) so I think I pay reasonable attention to it.  

There's just a lot of damn characters and storylines in the show.  I'd need to keep an actual notebook to keep the names and places straight. 

Edited by Zow

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