That doesn't seem like an argument that he *couldnt* do those things, it's more of an argument that the writers aren't going to have him do anything that would require them to rewrite the show's history.
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Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory...NERDS already ruining a series that hasn't started (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter belljr
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FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Well, he "can" go back and kill Varys, it's just that we already know that he doesn't because then Varys wouldn't be in the timeline we've seen.
He technically "can" do anything, but we already know generally what he is and is not going to do based on what has played out in the show so far. We can potentially see him do a lot of different things in the past, but as you mentioned we already know the result of those. The result is what we've seen in the show up to this point.
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Officer Pete Malloy
Footballguy
Bran is now my least favorite character. Why didn't he warn us about 9/11?
Foosball God
Foos
How do you know what he can and can't do?FreeBaGeL said:
ScottNorwood
Footballcutie
If Bran gets old and shriveled like the tree guy would we call him Raisin Bran?
GregR
Footballguy
GregR
Footballguy
Bronx Bomber
Footballguy
So are you guys saying that Willis is a kid at the same time he (Hodor) is an adult? The timelines are happening at the same time in some nonlinear circle? How does aging work then? How dies it know which no timeline version to age and at what rate? Interesting g stuff be definitely not as non-complicated as some are making it seem.
GregR
Footballguy
warningThere are a lot of different ways writers have handled time travel and paradoxes from them, and unless GRRM explains it in the story we won't really know. And I wouldn't be surprised if he never does.
Take the grandfather paradox... you go back in time and kill your grandfather when he was a young boy. What happens? If he dies without having kids you wouldn't have existed. If you didn't exist you can't go back in time to kill him, so you'd exist. But if you exist you go back in time. Loop. Paradox. Some writers leave it like that. Others use a number of ideas for how it might work to deal with the paradox.
One idea is there are separate Timelines. Where you exist and end up time traveling from is Timeline1. You go back in time and kill grandpa and then alternate Timeline2 starts up with dead grandpa where you never exist. A writer could have you return to the 'present' then, but it's the present in Timeline2 where you don't exist. Since you are from Timeline1 and have just traveled into Timeline2 you don't need to have been born in Timeline2, so it isn't a paradox. An example could play out like It's a Wonderful Life to show George what the world would be like if he never existed, the angel changes the past and lets him run through the resulting Timeline2. Then when he learns his lesson he's returned to his original Timeline1 where he does exist. I know it was probably a dream in that movie and not time travel, but it makes a good example.
A writer may let there be both copies of you from different Timelines existing together (the movie Timecop and TV show 12 Monkeys), or may have your time traveling self replace the 'you' of that Timeline if there is one (Back to the Future where Marty returns to the present of Timeline2 and he's the only Marty) so there's only one of you present.
Another popular method is "time is a river". You can throw a rock in a river and it'll affect its flow, but the water around it will adjust and in reality you won't have changed much. This treats the flow of time the same way. You could go back in time and kill Einstein but someone else would come up with his theories and affect the world in a similar fashion so in reality not much changed. In the grandfather paradox version, someone else has a kid who has the impact of your father and has a kid who has the impact of you, even if he doesn't look just like you.
Ok, so GoT. It hasn't given us an explanation. We know Hodor's future moment of holding the door affected him in the past in some way that affected how he lived out his life.
It could be spun several ways. Time is a river... we would assume that if Hodor was never affected, Bran would still have fallen, got paralyzed, a mentally healthy Willis would have carried him or even someone else would have. Details may have differed but the overall major flow of the story and Timeline would have been the same. Events play out much the same whether it's Willis or Hodor.
Or they could just leave it a potential paradox and you can assume with Willis instead of Hodor that Bran would never have made it to the point he could view the past, effectively becoming a grandfather paradox.
If I was writing it and wanted to explain away the paradox I'd like a version with a first alternate timeline that got us to the present story we witnessed. Some other Timeline1 (not what we saw on TV) played out with a healthy Willis that still resulted in Bran visiting the past and Willis getting Hodor'd for the first time. This started Timeline2 with Hodor instead of Willis which plays out how we saw on TV. Now when Bran from Timeline2 who grew up with a Hodor views the past and Willis gets Hodor'd, nothing changes. The result is identical to our Timeline2 we already saw.
So in my version, time could be said to be a closed loop NOW, but it wasn't always that way.
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Don't Noonan
Footballguy
The new quote system sucks!
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
Say what.....
Buckychudd
Footballguy
Rohn Jambo
Footballguy
Ramsey may not last until the end of this season. Looks like the show runners are cleaning house to bring in new characters.Come on. There were some cool moments for sure - mainly Sansa and Jon meeting up. I didn't think that would happen so soon, and that was fantastic. Like somebody else said, I am just done with Ramsey. To me he is just one note and uninteresting at this point. And I get that we are supposed to be distracted by Dany's boobies, but she is still doing the same #### she was doing at the end of season one - comes out of a burning building and has Dothraki following her. 'cept now she doesn't have dragons and she is still no closer to having ships.
There is still a lot of praise for the show every week, so maybe I am in the minority. I still dig it, but am getting pretty tired of a few story lines. Do you guys think that it has dipped a bit, but still better than most shows? Or do you think that it has maintained it's greatness from what I would consider it's peak of Seasons 3 and 4?
bentley
Footballguy
I'm on board with "dipped a bit but still better than just another everything on TV." Also agree that they haven't introduced a great new character like Oberyn Martell in quite a while.
One thing that the show has going for it is that it's prettier than anything on TV. Say what you will about the Walker attack on the tree, but that scene looked like something from an epic movie.
One thing that the show has going for it is that it's prettier than anything on TV. Say what you will about the Walker attack on the tree, but that scene looked like something from an epic movie.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Pleasant surprise when I saw wikipedia page - I thought they didn't do episodes on Memorial weekend?
Rohn Jambo
Footballguy
The Dorne story line pulled S5 down a bit, a good reason for Ellaria Sand to kill off the Martells in the season opener. Nevertheless, I look forward to the twist when Prince Doran is vindicated.
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nirad3
Footballguy
Absolutely. Some of the landscapes are pretty stunning, actually. Production value here is top-notch... as opposed to something like TWD/FTWD.
You're right, looks like a big budget movie in many cases. So glad I hitched my wagon to this show.
They didn't for the first few years, but last year they ran one on Memorial weekend IIRC.
Brady Marino
Footballguy
HE LIVES
The Captain
Footballguy
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Homer J Simpson
I don't push
Awesome as always.
the moops
Footballguy
shadyridr
Footballguy
Yeah I love how they unveiled Edmund like some huge moment. The guy had 5 minutes of screen time.
shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Couple good twists for sure, but could have done with a little smaller helping of Sam and Gilly storyline.
Yeah, all that just to get him a Valyrian steel sword? It wouldn't surprise me at all if we never see any of his family again.
Another story line that at one point was pretty cool, but now seems all over the place. Going from her list, killing those guys with the hound and have Jaqen kill some more to all of a sudden giving it all up for some actress in a crappy play?
Also, wouldn't Jaqen be pissed at the girl who wants to kill Arya? Seems like she isn't acting like no one with her vendetta for Arya.
Officer Pete Malloy
Footballguy
Mario Kart
Footballguy
A killer has to learn to be ruthless. Arya has to learn that. Jaqen's girl doesn't have a vendetta for Arya. She is Jaqen's "checks and balances" with the trainee. If Arya doesn't live up to Jaqen's requests, Arya will get taken out. Thus, Arya is going to learn to kill when Jaqen's girl goes after her. That is why Arya got her sword back. She knows she needs to watch her back now. If/when Arya shows her face to Jaqen again, it will be after Arya kills his little padawan and Arya will then become the next one.
C'mon, people. It's all explained to us.
C'mon, people. It's all explained to us.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I was thinking a similar thing when they were hanging at camp. According to Benjen the dead never stop ....... except when our heroes need to take a break and eat.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
So you are saying the last 1 1/2 seasons of her getting beaten with a stick and him telling her to become nobody and drop the list and her family was pointless and BS?
Mario Kart
Footballguy
No but in order to complete a list, you have to do it yourself. She was not able to do that then. Now, is a different story however she needs to keep learning so she won't get caught.
Tusken Raider
Footballguy
So are the other two dragons just chillin' in Tyrion's basement waiting for him to tell them another story?
Homer J Simpson
I don't push
OK I am officially out of this thread.
TheMagus
Footballguy
So Margaery didn't actually convert, right? She was just doing what she needed to do to save her brother. With the added bonus of getting complete control over Tommen and not letting his family influence him anymore. Or did I completely misread that?
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ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
No you didn't misread it. She was just telling Loras to stay strong and play along a couple episodes ago, no way she did a 360.
She can manipulate Tommen like no one else can, and the High Sparrow had already laid the groundwork. So she played the religious epiphany card with the High Sparrow and acted her ### off, until he let her see Tommen. Then, having her claws in him already, it wasn't much work to get him to make a deal with the High Sparrow.
That was clearly her Plan A to get out. She had a surprised look on her face when she saw her family's soldiers there ready to die to take her away, I don't think she saw that coming. She played the only hand she could and got out by getting Tommen in deeper with the Church.
The question is, did she throw Loras under the bus to do it.
Oh, it is telegraphed that Arya will kill that girl, but I disagree 100% that that is the test for Jaqen and disagree 100% that Jaqen's girl doesn't have a vendetta for Arya. She isn't like Jaqen teaching Arya, even if he is tough on her, she absolutely dislikes Arya. As you said c'mon people, you'd have to be blind not to see that.
Also, how can you say Arya is going to learn to kill when she's already killed multiple people herself and other people using Jaqen?
I agree with you that she is doing this for a reason and playing Tommen. That said, I think she did it for Loras and has no plan to throw him under the bus. I think she did it because she realized Loras would break and she felt this was the best way for her to get out there and to get Loras out of there.
