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Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory...NERDS already ruining a series that hasn't started (7 Viewers)

I was actually hoping Melisandre would give Arya her necklace so she could disguise herself as an wight or Other... err... White Walker. It would've made the top rope jump/infiltration more plausible (in the sense that a show about dragons, undead, and magic can be plausible) and given Melisandre a reason to die *and* satisfy Arya's list indirectly (Arya kills her by taking the necklace). But, I am not a writer, I just play one on the FBG messageboard.

 
A- episode.  Everything was great, except the dark. I understand it's a stylistic choice and sets tone and all of that, but I'd still like to see wtf I'm watching.  

Expecting me to turn off every light in the house and put the TV into vivid mode and then pause it halfway through to hang up tarps over the windows because a passing car's headlights came in the window and made me miss a scene is just....not good. 

 The rest of it was amazing.  

 
Hot Diggity Dog said:
Not sure what season but there was a scene where she took off her  choker with the giant ruby and was really old.  She won her battle and died.
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Yeah, I remember that. I can't recall the season, but it was when she was at the wall with Stannis and his army.

I think she took it off to reveal herself to Jon - but not sure.

Also, how long did she have it off? I really don't know. But, could that have made a difference?

Good questions. However, I doubt the series will answer that clearly.

 
There was also another scene where she took it off to bathe.

Like I said, I really believe she was spent - but - I like the other line of thinking as well.

 
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thecatch said:
Visually great, but a bit of a baffling tactical strategy. 
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Actually, I am re-watching that scene right now.

The vanguard charge was often suicidal as a means to disrupt enemy - find info - and keep "regulars" from harms way.

I don't think it was too strange, considering what could be out there. Plus, the Screamers were open field charging fighters - I don't think they would have been an effective shield or shock absorber. Nor, do I think they would want that kind of role.

Now, perhaps they could have been used as a flanking force, but I'm not sure if that would have served a better purpose.

 
fruity pebbles said:
I’m getting the feeling that a lot of things people hope will be explained......won’t.
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Yeah, highly doubt we get even a sentence on Bran and the NK. We have all the Occam's Razor info we need--Children of the Forest created the first WW to be their soldiers against men and it backfired and they regretted it, beating them back together. Thousands of years later, the WW ride again, continuing their goal to wipe out mankind, and the Three Eyed Raven is apparently an important part from their POV, allied with the Children and possessing humanity's memories. Not sure anything beyond that matters. 

Literally the only info we don't have is--why now, after thousands of years and many other long winters? But I doubt we ever get that answer. The show is set during this time BECAUSE big things are happening. Magic is rising again in all factions and it all comes to a head. At this point it's kind of like knowing what caused the outbreak in TWD--it isn't gonna come up and it doesn't really matter for the story they're telling imo.

I would like to know too, of course. But I doubt it's in the cards. Maybe a cryptic comment or two as everyone turns to Bran like "wtf man".

 
AhrnCityPahnder said:
A- episode.  Everything was great, except the dark. I understand it's a stylistic choice and sets tone and all of that, but I'd still like to see wtf I'm watching.  

Expecting me to turn off every light in the house and put the TV into vivid mode and then pause it halfway through to hang up tarps over the windows because a passing car's headlights came in the window and made me miss a scene is just....not good. 

 The rest of it was amazing.  
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Three of the major battles were fought at night. Blackwater, Castle Black and Winterfell. I think that the darkness helps the set it up as the battle between fire and ice.

That said I wish that they had done a better job illuminating at times who was fighting.  Wasn't sure if it was Jaimie or Jon.

 
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Man of Constant Sorrow said:
Me too.

Plus, I thought that the ravens would be explained in this episode - once they took off.

I expect they will be eventually, but...who knows...
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Theon was the only person who even knows Bran left, unless Bran brings it up, we will probably be left guessing. 

 
Man of Constant Sorrow said:
Actually, I am re-watching that scene right now.

The vanguard charge was often suicidal as a means to disrupt enemy - find info - and keep "regulars" from harms way.

I don't think it was too strange, considering what could be out there. Plus, the Screamers were open field charging fighters - I don't think they would have been an effective shield or shock absorber. Nor, do I think they would want that kind of role.

Now, perhaps they could have been used as a flanking force, but I'm not sure if that would have served a better purpose.
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I mean, I don’t want to nerd out on this too much, but that’s not how cavalry, especially light cavalry, were used at all. They would have been spread out on the flanks and circling around the rear if possible. This was like the Battle of the Bastards where they had the commander(s) use some kind of dumb strategies to get the shots they want, and it’s a fantasy TV show so I’m not going to begrudge them that. But my wife did have to put up with an earful about it  :ph34r:

 
Kevrunner said:
Man of Constant Sorrow said:
Me too.

Plus, I thought that the ravens would be explained in this episode - once they took off.

I expect they will be eventually, but...who knows...
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Theon was the only person who even knows Bran left, unless Bran brings it up, we will probably be left guessing. 
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Oddly, I may have just gotten my answer now - as the ravens just took off in my re-watch. I kinda missed this the 1st time around, but they flew to the NK on his Ice/Undead Dragon.

I guess it was just a simple scouting operation.

Thus, I think you are very correct.

 
I’ve caught the writer’s talking out loud at times. Tonight the ‘we’re all useless and that’s why we’re here’ exchange. I just think it’s funny to see the writers spell it out like that, I like to think it’s purposeful.

 
thecatch said:
I mean, I don’t want to nerd out on this too much, but that’s not how cavalry, especially light cavalry, were used at all. They would have been spread out on the flanks and circling around the rear if possible. This was like the Battle of the Bastards where they had the commander(s) use some kind of dumb strategies to get the shots they want, and it’s a fantasy TV show so I’m not going to begrudge them that. But my wife did have to put up with an earful about it  :ph34r:
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Cool. I'm perhaps too much of Total War Medieval General. My troops would have strung me up years ago.

Hah.

But, that tactic worked great against the orcs in the LOTR mod. 🤪

 
I echo the complaints about the darkness - I also get the reasons why they did it, but dramatic and budgetary, but I would have rather sacrificed some tension for being able to see. 

Bran remains baffling - I thought with all the main characters near death, they were about to use him to time travel or something. Glad they didn’t go that route but that leaves the question of what he was doing, and what usefulness does he have going forward. 

Everything else was great and I’ve never been more stressed watching TV. 

 
Man of Constant Sorrow said:
Yeah, I remember that. I can't recall the season, but it was when she was at the wall with Stannis and his army.

I think she took it off to reveal herself to Jon - but not sure.

Also, how long did she have it off? I really don't know. But, could that have made a difference?

Good questions. However, I doubt the series will answer that clearly.
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You called it. She spent herself, plus like she said earlier, she had a mission, it was fulfilled. Done.

I guess the way to understand her earlier motivations was she thought Baratheon would get her to that moment. She was wrong. The wizards of yore like Merlin were like that, imperfect, had screwups.

 
I think you can have complaints about earlier battle scenes - no one ever attacked at night in medieval, dark ages and Roman times. 

But with the Night King, come on it makes total sense. Had to be that way.

 
Man of Constant Sorrow said:
As I said, I am doing a re-watch now. The scene where Red Woman lit the barricade just finished - well - she was obviously strugglin' to get it done. Just barely accomplished it.

This kinda puts me further into the - she burned herself out and was gonna die regardless of necklace camp.
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Looked  like Davos was reaching for his dagger as she was going on her death walk.   I thought he was going to kill her but then realized what she was doing.

 
LOL.

Holy #### that was disappointing.

8 years of teasers about this unstoppable army for them to kill off a few tertiary characters who all get their beautiful moment to shine before succumbing to the dumbest Hollywood trope in existence.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
You called it. She spent herself, plus like she said earlier, she had a mission, it was fulfilled. Done.

I guess the way to understand her earlier motivations was she thought Baratheon would get her to that moment. She was wrong. The wizards of yore like Merlin were like that, imperfect, had screwups.
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Luv that so much SID.

The all-powerful trope did not exist in those pieces - the way I like it.

Merlin in Excalibur (Boorman I think - 80's) is my fav modern portrayal of the eccentricities of the Wyrd.

Thnx.

 
Kevrunner said:
Looked  like Davos was reaching for his dagger as she was going on her death walk.   I thought he was going to kill her but then realized what she was doing.
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Yeah - Davos is one of my favs - very much so - in books and TV.

I'm glad he held back. It is the kinda decision he would make - imo - the writers got that right, I believe.

 
thecatch said:
I mean, I don’t want to nerd out on this too much, but that’s not how cavalry, especially light cavalry, were used at all. They would have been spread out on the flanks and circling around the rear if possible. This was like the Battle of the Bastards where they had the commander(s) use some kind of dumb strategies to get the shots they want, and it’s a fantasy TV show so I’m not going to begrudge them that. But my wife did have to put up with an earful about it  :ph34r:
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The comp was supposed to be the mongols. They were more of a swarm, more nuanced, much more so than even medieval cavalry. 

But there’s something about what they are dealing with. Poor sons of guns, used to steppe and desert fighting in broad daylight, sent like a sacrificial test probe into an unknown force in the dark and snow. Really ####ty way to treat them, in the narrative and militarily. IRL Dany would be pissed off to the max at that degradation and waste of a force so great and loyal to her. Carry on.

 
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FreeBaGeL said:
LOL.

Holy #### that was disappointing.

8 years of teasers about this unstoppable army for them to kill off a few tertiary characters who all get their beautiful moment to shine before succumbing to the dumbest Hollywood trope in existence.
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I get where you're coming from.

But that's not what the show has been about for 8 years. The WW were one huge plot device slowly moving South and driving the narrative when necessary, and now their usefulness is gone. But the show is about the living. 

That said, despite how enormous and epic it was, I too couldn't help feeling it was a bit anti-climactic. I think it suffered from being seen only hours after I saw Endgame--one of the most satisfying culminations of a decade's worth of build-up I could imagine. Tough to live up to. 

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
no one ever attacked at night in medieval,
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Soory SID, gonna have ta call ya out on this.

In Medieval II LoTR mod, I used night attacks ta take soooo many orc encampments that it became ridiculous.

It also got all my family members that special "Night General" status so that I could really mop up on the big map.

You gotta lot ta learn bout genral'n.

 
Man of Constant Sorrow said:
Soory SID, gonna have ta call ya out on this.

In Medieval II LoTR mod, I used night attacks ta take soooo many orc encampments that it became ridiculous.

It also got all my family members that special "Night General" status so that I could really mop up on the big map.

You gotta lot ta learn bout genral'n.
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I listen, I learn, Sansei.

 
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The giant crushing the young queen chick was brutal. It sounded like stalks of celery being broken.

Also  when the NK walked into the garden there was only one possible outcome - he had to die - otherwise everybody else does and the show is over. So while it was awesome, it was pretty obvious it was about to happen. The way she did it was pretty boss though 

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
The comp was supposed to be the mongols. They were more of a swarm, more nuanced, much more so than even medieval cavalry. 

But there’s something about what they are dealing with. Poor sons of guns, used to steppe and desert fighting in broad daylight, sent like a sacrificial test probe into an unknown force in the dark and snow. Really ####ty way to treat them, in the narrative and militarily. IRL Dany would be pissed off to the max at that degradation and waste of a force so great and loyal to her. Carry on.
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I think Ghost has an even bigger narrative gripe assuming he didn’t make it out. The show runners might as well admitted in the inside the episode section that they were getting tired about being asked about the dire wolf. 

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
I think you can have complaints about earlier battle scenes - no one ever attacked at night in medieval, dark ages and Roman times. 

But with the Night King, come on it makes total sense. Had to be that way.
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There was one time...Vlad!!!!  Of course, he was a crazy mofo.  

 
After all that Sam has been thru up to this battle, I kinda thought he would have been a little more brave.  Tyrion wanted to fight, love that guy.   His character will go down as one of the all-time greats.   I’m hoping the dragons take the fleet of ships out first, so at least if Cersei wins, the golden company’s soldiers won’t be able to get back home anytime soon.  Not sure which side Bronn is going to end up fighting for, I got a bad feeling that he is going to end up taking either Jamie or Tyrion out.  I sure hope I’m wrong.  

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
The comp was supposed to be the mongols. They were more of a swarm, more nuanced, much more so than even medieval cavalry. 

But there’s something about what they are dealing with. Poor sons of guns, used to steppe and desert fighting in broad daylight, sent like a sacrificial test probe into an unknown force in the dark and snow. Really ####ty way to treat them, in the narrative and militarily. IRL Dany would be pissed off to the max at that degradation and waste of a force so great and loyal to her. Carry on.
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Yeah, i disliked that as well.  Should have had them attack from the flanks once the fighting started.  I get why the didn't, but it was a waste.

 
On a serious note; why I think the Screamer charge was not such a blunder:

1) They are obviously not going to act as a shock absorber or shield wall

2) As many have noted, they are an open field charging force

3) The typical flank maneuver does not seem too helpful to me in a defensive siege when they already know the kind of numbers they are facing

4) Even if they did this flank, that still would have been suicidal, imo, because of the number of undead and the undead dragon

5) By initiating the engagement, the hero's get to begin things when they want

6) They also had hopes that the Screamer charge would initiate the engagement perhaps before the NK was fully prepared. A flank would require a first move by NK

7) As stated before, I think all expected to die anyways - I can't imagine the Screamers want'n to go out any other way than in full charge - head on - mode.

EDIT: 8 ) The dragons would be the better flankers, and the Screamers would just get in the way of the dragon flank.

OK - not a historical analysis or military expert opinion. Just my quick and only argument for the show.

Pick apart at will - I'm not too invested in it.

Just a fun thing to discuss & learn from others input.

 
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Lighting the trench shouldn't have really slowed the dead army down, there was so many of them they could have just rushed the trench right away and smothered the fire with the sheer number of them.

Also there was some high speed dragon-riding maneuvers and without safety harnesses there's no way theyd be able to hang on without getting flung off. 

I really had to suspend belief for this episode.

 
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