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Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory

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4 minutes ago, hagmania said:

I hope by this you mean Varys.

No, Dany. Varys was true to the realm to the end.

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2 hours ago, bostonfred said:

How dare you ruin my favorite character.  Ned Stark would never have caught that easily and even if he was he'd never have lied and admitted to treason. 

How dare you kill my favorite character.  Robb would never have gone back on his word. And he'd never fall in love with some random woman when he was honour bound to avenge his father.  

How dare you....

We could do this all day.  It's just easier to second guess the show runners because it's the end of the show and there's no source material to act as canon so people want things the way they wanted them.  

Well put. The lack of books and the two year hiatus have created a situation where EVERYONE who is invested in it more than the average viewer has spent time plotting out how it's going to end.  

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Just now, cap'n grunge said:

No, Dany. Varys was true to the realm to the end.

Blech, there better not be a single episode redemption arc in the series finale. No thank you; I'm already concerned with how little time is left.

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3 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

This is almost as bad as when people were thinking Bran caused the Mad King to go mad by whispering in the wind...

Apples and oranges.

If Varys did poison Dany but instead of killing her caused her already fragile psyche to go over the tipping point, he is also indirectly responsible for the genocide at Kings Landing. That seems like a very GoT thing to do.

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15 minutes ago, cap'n grunge said:

I've been thinking about Dany's turn more and the only thing that makes sense to me (in fact I hope it's somehow true and the writers reveal it next week) is that Varys WAS poisoning her. It hadn't done the job of taking her down yet, but it did poison her already fragile mind and opened her up to the madness of mass murder for murder's sake. Write that in with flashbacks and you've salvaged such a quick turn and partially redeemed the character IMO.

no way they do that

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Just now, hagmania said:

Blech, there better not be a single episode redemption arc in the series finale. No thank you; I'm already concerned with how little time is left.

why?  Its over.   rest is gratuitous.

 

story arc:   a lot of bad stuff happens, a redemptive queen arises from the east, she goes mental and burns everything down.   The end.   Honestly if they just ended it last night, this would go down as the best single episode of all time.   

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34 minutes ago, Good Posting Judge said:

Remember when she got so shook from her dragon torching one little kid that she locked them in a vault for a season or two (?). She's always been pretty brutal towards people that she felt were against her, or were unjust in some way. Cool. And being the "breaker of chains", she's always leveraged fighting against slavery, oppression, etc. to get the commonfolk on her side. Remember when she crowd-surfed via the thankful people in Essos? That's kind of her main MO. Doesn't make sense to just completely flip like that. I can't buy it.

She never wanted to break the wheel.  She wanted to be on top.  Once she came to Westeros and didn't allow the North to leave as they wanted was telling....and pretty much mitigated all the good she did in Essos. 

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2 minutes ago, hagmania said:

Blech, there better not be a single episode redemption arc in the series finale. No thank you; I'm already concerned with how little time is left.

Oh, no redemption for her. She dead. It would just help better explain the quick turn.

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1 minute ago, Don't Noonan said:

Anyone else surprised that Cersei didn't have at least one 🦂 in the castle she was in?

what is that emoji?

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1 minute ago, tommyboy said:

why?  Its over.   rest is gratuitous.

 

story arc:   a lot of bad stuff happens, a redemptive queen arises from the east, she goes mental and burns everything down.   The end.   Honestly if they just ended it last night, this would go down as the best single episode of all time.   

only question left is what will john do?

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9 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Also at the end of season 1, doesn’t she say something about how all of their enemies will die screaming? 

Yes and many did. So did the kids and the women. Actually, two of her worst enemies died peacefully in a loving embrace. 

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2 minutes ago, tommyboy said:

why?  Its over.   rest is gratuitous.

 

story arc:   a lot of bad stuff happens, a redemptive queen arises from the east, she goes mental and burns everything down.   The end.   Honestly if they just ended it last night, this would go down as the best single episode of all time.   

Gotta have the emotional impact of Jon having to take out Aunt Dany. I imagine it's going to be quite powerful.

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I don't see why they limited it to 6 episodes.  All of these distinct changes in major characters needed to be fleshed out.  If they would have had 2 more episodes they could have made these proclamations and character changes so much better.  Having flashback episodes via Bran would actually make him mildly useful.

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Just now, cap'n grunge said:

Apples and oranges.

If Varys did poison Dany but instead of killing her caused her already fragile psyche to go over the tipping point, he is also indirectly responsible for the genocide at Kings Landing. That seems like a very GoT thing to do.

Daenerys went mad - because the coin-flip came up mad.

She was always leaning that way - she was quite clearly psychotic - she finally went over the edge on top of Kings Landing.

Just think back to when she fried the Tarley's - and when she told Samwell about it this season - she thought it was no big deal.  Never occured to her that burning people might not be a good thing.

So, her madness was always there - and the confluence of events leading up to last night's episode simply pushed her over the edge.

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1 minute ago, LAUNCH said:

I don't see why they limited it to 6 episodes.  All of these distinct changes in major characters needed to be fleshed out.  If they would have had 2 more episodes they could have made these proclamations and character changes so much better.  Having flashback episodes via Bran would actually make him mildly useful.

There is this concept of money.

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5 minutes ago, tommyboy said:

  Honestly if they just ended it last night, this would go down as the best single episode of all time.   

It might still. 

But to your point, it does kind of feel like Ozymandius in that sense (third to last episode of Breaking Bad). 

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2 minutes ago, LAUNCH said:

I don't see why they limited it to 6 episodes.  All of these distinct changes in major characters needed to be fleshed out.  If they would have had 2 more episodes they could have made these proclamations and character changes so much better.  Having flashback episodes via Bran would actually make him mildly useful.

To be fair - the length of the episodes this season are worth about 2 more normal-length episodes.

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Just now, culdeus said:

There is this concept of money.

More episodes...more money.  HBO has very little else, so I would imagine they'd be in for 20 episodes.

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43 minutes ago, McJose said:

Wrong

The Citadel has a lot of books, doubt you've looked through all of them, nerd.

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5 minutes ago, LAUNCH said:

More episodes...more money.  HBO has very little else, so I would imagine they'd be in for 20 episodes.

I don't think that works in a subscription model as much as you think.  I'd imagine this is a loss leader for them, if not a giant money pit.  

Not sure if they publish financials or how you would evaluate them.  They could have stretched the content just on runtime alone out to 9 episodes this season and they chose not to.  Probably because they were paying the principals on a per episode basis. (maybe)

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6 minutes ago, Fat Drunk and Stupid said:

The Citadel has a lot of books, doubt you've looked through all of them, nerd.

"Hello there, King's Landing residents. I know that you're homeless and half of your friends and families are dead. I think you might be in need of a carpenter..."

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21 minutes ago, Waingro said:

This is series long rug that was puled out from under us. You're right, all of the clues were there, but we continued to hope for our hero to prevail. Well, she did win, except she's no hero. She turned out to be the biggest villain in the show (maybe the history of Westeros), and we've been rooting for her all along. Brilliant. 

 

She was more of an anti-hero to me, but I’ve never fully understood why everyone thought she was a force for good. She only cared about power. Anyone that posed the slightest threat to her rise in power was vanquished in ruthless fashion.   

She never had to actually rule. I’m not convinced she would be much different than Cersei once she has all the power. Her game would change from accumulating power to doing whatever it takes to preserve it. 

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2 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

To be fair - the length of the episodes this season are worth about 2 more normal-length episodes.

I get that, but important things were cut short or glossed over.  Some of it was just the way they chose to sequence things, but some of these things were easy fixes.  A scene between Khaleesi and Missandei where she just unloads all of her issues to her as the one person she trusted and having Missandei play into her paranoia and showing the beginning of the meltdown could have made the rest of what happens a much smoother transition.

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2 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

I know, I'm going to get the "whining because it didn't end the way you thought" junk, but:

My take was that the people around Dany were scared because they thought she would stoop to killing innocents to get to Cersei and the throne.  That is why she started letting people in King's Landing - to make the forces go through innocent people, which she didn't think they'd do.  BUT, I still thought the end game was getting to Cersei (basically she was staring at the Red Keep while sitting on the wall, right?).  So when she took off, I thought oh #### - she is going to fly straight at the keep, destroy it, but on the the way maybe carve a path in the city to #### stuff up and strike fear into the people of KL.  I just thought it was a weird turn to see her systematically circling through and destroying everything and everyone.  

I thought the same, jack up some stuff, flex a lil' bit for the wee folk then trash the Red Keep. Umm...guess nah? :oldunsure: The Snickers commercial is going to be epic though!

1 hour ago, bostonfred said:

The show told us this was coming.  They showed the throne room burned down with ashes falling.  Danny literally told us exactly what she was going to do. It wasn't until we saw it that we realized just how awful it was.  It wasn't a bunch of soldiers and also some commoners.  She went street by street through that huge city and burned it to the ground.  And then we realized what it had meant to be cheering for the dragon queen to go home and conquer the seven kingdoms. 

I love it. 

I mentioned it earlier, the show has telegraphed everything that has happened and we keep trying to come with elaborate reasons it should do this or go that way. All the while they stick to the obvious and some of us are shocked when it actually happens.

Bolded is pure gold. Once again @Boston Fred running away with the innernets today :thumbup::thumbup:

1 hour ago, culdeus said:

Still trying to interpret the Arya situation.

Same, I mentioned it earlier in my post about the episode, just not sure where this leave Arya? I feel like she'll be involved because Hollywood and all but I think I'd be cool with a cut to her on boat entering the harbor of Braavos.

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9 minutes ago, culdeus said:

I don't think that works in a subscription model as much as you think.  I'd imagine this is a loss leader for them, if not a giant money pit.  

Not sure if they publish financials or how you would evaluate them.  They could have stretched the content just on runtime alone out to 9 episodes this season and they chose not to.  Probably because they were paying the principals on a per episode basis. (maybe)

If they got to 9 episodes that would be an extra month of payments for all the cable cutters who only subscribe when GOT is on.

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16 minutes ago, Fat Drunk and Stupid said:

The Citadel has a lot of books, doubt you've looked through all of them, nerd.

You're just bitter that nobody yelled out "Roll Tide" when Jaime and Cersei died.

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1 minute ago, McJose said:

You're just bitter that nobody yelled out "Roll Tide" when Jaime and Cersei died.

yoooooooooooo

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18 minutes ago, Good Posting Judge said:

Wait until Jon Snow rides his horse directly into the path of a semi truck driven by Michael Chiklis.

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27 minutes ago, Thunderlips said:

She never wanted to break the wheel.  She wanted to be on top.  Once she came to Westeros and didn't allow the North to leave as they wanted was telling....and pretty much mitigated all the good she did in Essos. 

Also, there is no "wheel". It is literally one of the stupidest lines in the show. The Targs had ruled for 300 years. Then, Robert Baratheon takes over for what... 14-15 years before dying and being replaced by, what seems like, proper heirs? What wheel is she referring to exactly? The wheel that existed *prior* to her ancestors' rule? She must've really gotten worked up reading Jorah's wedding gift or something. 

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2 minutes ago, McJose said:

Wait until Jon Snow rides his horse directly into the path of a semi truck driven by Michael Chiklis.

Wish I could like this 100x. The Jax particles that are stuck in that truck grill are laughing at GOT right now.

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Can’t believe the criticism the show is getting for Dany and Jamie.

The Jamie arc is perfect.  He didn’t “turn bad” again.  He was laying there with an ugly massive woman and realized that he loved Cersei.  All he did was go back and try to save Cersei.  That’s it.  His weakness for her lasted the entire series from 1.01 when he pushed a kid out of a window.  

Dany planned to cross the seas with two armies of vicious warriors and 3 fire-breathing dragons. Did you expect she was going to use diplomacy to ensure there was no collateral damage?  She’s literally another “mad queen”.  Her brother was a psycho and I’ve always thought her idea that she was destined to rule was absurd and obviously narcissistic.

Destroying the citizens and the city was awful and it’s terribly hard to imagine anyone doing that.  But she literally said “fear it is then”. They spent three episodes building up to Jon being the  “good” ruler of the two.  

Shes not a good person.  Was she ever?  Was Walter White?  Sometimes people lose it.  Hitler wasn’t born a monster.

Edited by shader
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1 minute ago, sn0mm1s said:

Also, there is no "wheel". It is literally one of the stupidest lines in the show. The Targs had ruled for 300 years. Then, Robert Baratheon takes over for what... 14-15 years before dying and being replaced by, what seems like, proper heirs? What wheel is she referring to exactly? The wheel that existed *prior* to her ancestors' rule? She must've really gotten worked up reading Jorah's wedding gift or something. 

"This device isn't a spaceship. It's a time machine. It goes backwards, forwards. It takes us to a place where we ache to go again. It's not called the Wheel. It's called a Carousel. It lets us travel the way a child travels. Around and around, and back home again... to a place where we know we are loved."

-Sandor Draper

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Just now, McJose said:

"This device isn't a spaceship. It's a time machine. It goes backwards, forwards. It takes us to a place where we ache to go again. It's not called the Wheel. It's called a Carousel. It lets us travel the way a child travels. Around and around, and back home again... to a place where we know we are loved."

-Sandor Draper

Not really applicable to what she was referring to.

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4 minutes ago, McJose said:

"This device isn't a spaceship. It's a time machine. It goes backwards, forwards. It takes us to a place where we ache to go again. It's not called the Wheel. It's called a Carousel. It lets us travel the way a child travels. Around and around, and back home again... to a place where we know we are loved."

-Sandor Draper

Hardest my weak ### ever teared up during a tv show/movie 

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So Brann knew all this was going to happen, right? He had that exact vision of Drogon flying over Kings Landing, so he knew she was going to burn the city down, and yet he didn't tell anyone. Wonder why? 

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26 minutes ago, Dickies said:

People are nuts. This episode was fantastic. 

I'm sure it is a lot of upset Dany fans behind those low marks.

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6 minutes ago, Spin said:

So Brann knew all this was going to happen, right? He had that exact vision of Drogon flying over Kings Landing, so he knew she was going to burn the city down, and yet he didn't tell anyone. Wonder why? 

Because he’s the worst

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10 minutes ago, Capella said:

Hardest my weak ### ever teared up during a tv show/movie 

You and  Harry Crane.

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1 hour ago, LAUNCH said:

I don't see why they limited it to 6 episodes.  All of these distinct changes in major characters needed to be fleshed out.  If they would have had 2 more episodes they could have made these proclamations and character changes so much better.  Having flashback episodes via Bran would actually make him mildly useful.

FWIW, if you look at run time, this season will be almost 8 "episodes" long when you compare to the episode length in the 10 episode seasons.

They reduced the screen time, but in the end it won't be nearly as much as it feels like if you just compare number of episodes.

 

edit - I see someone mentioned this. I do agree they could have used another two.

Edited by Worm
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12 minutes ago, Spin said:

So Brann knew all this was going to happen, right? He had that exact vision of Drogon flying over Kings Landing, so he knew she was going to burn the city down, and yet he didn't tell anyone. Wonder why? 

cause hes an ahole

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16 minutes ago, Spin said:

So Brann knew all this was going to happen, right? He had that exact vision of Drogon flying over Kings Landing, so he knew she was going to burn the city down, and yet he didn't tell anyone. Wonder why? 

He doesn’t care. He’s totally removed from the present.

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