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Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory

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1 hour ago, Pipes said:

Ironically he was much smarter as a drunken fool. Of all the characters his arch has pissed me off the most.  He was a brilliant character up until he became hand now he’s a borderline buffoon.  There are still flashes of his old brilliant self but not nearly enough.

Not going to Dany after Sansa revealed Jon's lineage was a pretty big mistake. Dany let him off the hook but Varys and the citizens of KL paid the price.

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1 hour ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

I don't see how on earth Bran ends up on the throne......

Yea, he would need someone to pick him and place him on it.

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Just now, Yankee23Fan said:

On the Jamie point:

The order he was given by the king was to kill his father and bring him Tywin's head.

So as much as we liked Jamie (and I still do) and how much he "changed" his story about saving the people from being burned b the mad king can be seen as his internal way of justifying himself because if he just told everyone, I wasn't going to kill my dad, then he would not have had the same stature in the world.  Knowing now that he was connected to Cersei no matter what and in the end wanted to die with her, the order to kill his father wasn't something he was going to be able to do.

The saving the people from being burned was just cover for his own decision that wasn't as honorable in that world as saving millions from a king about to lose a war anyway.

Except - that isn't what happened.

Jaime doesn't go around telling everyone his justification for killing Aerys. In fact, very few people know. He just let them believe whatever they wanted. Even Qyburn a maester has no clue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ6fhp483YU

 

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59 minutes ago, culdeus said:

Uhhh are there more Targaryen or Lannisters left now?

Meaning anytime he's going up against the Lannisters he was pretty poor

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33 minutes ago, Yankee23Fan said:

Trying to think this through a little, but Jon killing Dany is a problem.

Tyrion tells Jon about the dragon fire under the city.  And it turns out that they find a massive cache of it under the Red Keep.  They decide to blow it up just like Cersei did to the Sept and with it take out Dany, Drogon, the Unsullied and the Dothraki.  After Tyrion sacrifices himself, Jon manages to get down into the crypts, probably fighting off people, and in the end he sacrifices himself to destroy the Red Keep and everyone in it.Something like that.

I like the visuals....don't know if I like the story.

Frankly I don't know what I want in this ending.

I'd hate it if they did that. For one, we've already seen it and B). that would the cherry on top of a bad writing sundae and a turrible end to this magnificent series. Frankly it deserves better.

Not a discussion for this topic but has anyone addressed why the dragon's fire throughout the city when Drogon was toasting it? I assume the intention was to lob it on the screaming horde but it didn't really make sense where we were seeing the explosions i.e. interspersed throughout the city rather than on the ramparts. Just curious what y'all thought about that or didn't. I thought it was odd unless Cersei had planned to blow the city up once the horde was inside the walls.

28 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

After all of that death... is anyone in a better place than king's landing under king Robert? 

Dorne :D

23 minutes ago, Dickies said:

Would need to modify the throne room to be ADA compliant.

https://i.redd.it/zwevhjtmfjx21.jpg

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2 hours ago, Capella said:

The snark is everywhere man. There is some guy on Twitter I genuinely enjoy reading saying Cersei got killed by rocks and the night king a butter knife and laughing about how dumb it is. I had to unfollow because I cannot allow that kind of just inherent stupidity into my brain. It’s like some of these trolls have a lobotomy 5 minutes after the show ends. 

this is exactly why shows shouldn't go more than 5-6 seasons   eventually the hip thing to do is rip on the show, and also the material eventually suffers, loses impact and ends with a whimper.

breaking bad probably did this best,  5 years, great ending

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5 minutes ago, sn0mm1s said:

Except - that isn't what happened.

Jaime doesn't go around telling everyone his justification for killing Aerys. In fact, very few people know. He just let them believe whatever they wanted. Even Qyburn a maester has no clue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ6fhp483YU

 

True - so change it to his own internal justification or something he wanted to believe about himself (which actually fits better with his final comment to Tyrion).

Not trying to fight about it.  Like I said, I am fine with the Jamie story line from start to finish. 

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4 hours ago, otb_lifer said:

well, he did fly in e3, when he warged into the ravens and coaxed the NK out the clouds, effectively setting all the key plot machinations into motion.

But if he meant 'you will fly' for when he wargs he wouldn't have said 'you will never walk'.  He has walked all the time when he wargs into something.

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1 hour ago, STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:

Bran/the Starks have ZERO claim to the throne so I think you're safe.

Does being the closest/only living relatives of the guy with the rightful claim, give you a claim?  Wasn't King Robert's claim based on being a distant cousin to Targaryens?  The Starks are first cousins to the last Targaryen (assuming Dany is out of the picture).  

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7 minutes ago, Hawks64 said:

Meaning anytime he's going up against the Lannisters he was pretty poor

Well I meant that less as a response to your point, and an open question.  

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42 minutes ago, Yankee23Fan said:

Tyrion tells Jon about the dragon fire under the city.  And it turns out that they find a massive cache of it under the Red Keep.  They decide to blow it up just like Cersei did to the Sept

Didn't the Red Keep collapse on Jamie/Cersei?  

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1 minute ago, beer 30 said:

I'd hate it if they did that. For one, we've already seen it and B). that would the cherry on top of a bad writing sundae and a turrible end to this magnificent series. Frankly it deserves better.

Not a discussion for this topic but has anyone addressed why the dragon's fire throughout the city when Drogon was toasting it? I assume the intention was to lob it on the screaming horde but it didn't really make sense where we were seeing the explosions i.e. interspersed throughout the city rather than on the ramparts. Just curious what y'all thought about that or didn't. I thought it was odd unless Cersei had planned to blow the city up once the horde was inside the walls.

Dorne :D

https://i.redd.it/zwevhjtmfjx21.jpg

I think it was a call back to the fact that we knew the Mad King had cache's all around the city and nothing more than that.

Although, just thinking through as I type the fact that Drogon's attack resulted in blowing up the cache's in this episode good be a foreshadow of what is to come with my Red Keep theory.

I don't know if it is an awful ending.  Taking the character arcs out of the story for a second, if the destroy the Red Keep and everyone in it, while King's Landing is effectively destroyed, then there is no seat of unified power in Westeros.  The wheel has been broken.  There are also no more great houses left at all except Sansa leading whatever is left of Winterfell... and we are assuming that Gendry is in Stormsend, but even with that there are almost no people there - the castle was abandoned twice.

Take @bostonfred list of dead people/armies into this theory.  There are no more armies if they destroy the Keep with everyone in it.  None.  Not a single army left to terrorize people in the world - not just Westeros, but anywhere.  All the magic of Westeros is dead too.  Jon, Drogon and Dany are the last remnants of it now.  

I don't know.  It could work.

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2 minutes ago, parrot said:

Does being the closest/only living relatives of the guy with the rightful claim, give you a claim?  Wasn't King Robert's claim based on being a distant cousin to Targaryens?  The Starks are first cousins to the last Targaryen (assuming Dany is out of the picture).  

Robert's grandmother is a Targ IIRC.

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9 minutes ago, Waingro said:

Not going to Dany after Sansa revealed Jon's lineage was a pretty big mistake. Dany let him off the hook but Varys and the citizens of KL paid the price.

Yeah he'd probably have preferred being fire roasted by Drogon than what he had to end up bearing witness to.

Torching the people of the city at least partly as punishment to Tyrion works.  The mad turn of the queen has been fumbled a bit, I guess, lost in the sauce, but it all still works.

In the end, for the Lannisters, it was all a no-win.  One dragon wasn't even competition.. imagine if she'd still had three.  (That ambush at sea was slop.  Everything Euron was slop)

Pretty awesome effects, violent stuff.. the good news is there aren't many people left to kill

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46 minutes ago, Yankee23Fan said:

Trying to think this through a little, but Jon killing Dany is a problem.

The Dothraki and Unsullied are loyal to her and only her.  If he kills her, they are going to kill him and probably everyone else around them as they go off the deep end because neither group is a governing force.  Greyworm is all about revenge now anyway.  And there is no army in Westeros left that can stand against them.  So in order for Jon to kill Dany they have to have switched sides, gone home to the east, or..... something.  Maybe Dany kills them all in a fit of rage with Drogon?  That would be...…. sadistically interesting.

How about this for a massive Hollywood type ****-show of an ending that could either be really bad or really amazing.

Jon and Tyrion realize that they need to end her but the Dothraki and Unsullied control the city, along with Drogon.  Somehow, and I have no idea how, they need to lure all of them into the Red Keep.  Maybe Tyrion sacrifices himself by some kind of assassination attempt that brings them all into the main gates of the castle and out of the city.  

Tyrion tells Jon about the dragon fire under the city.  And it turns out that they find a massive cache of it under the Red Keep.  They decide to blow it up just like Cersei did to the Sept and with it take out Dany, Drogon, the Unsullied and the Dothraki.  After Tyrion sacrifices himself, Jon manages to get down into the crypts, probably fighting off people, and in the end he sacrifices himself to destroy the Red Keep and everyone in it.

There is no more King's Landing as a seat of power.  Dany and her entire hoard are killed.  There is no more seat of power in the world, and in fact there are only two castles left in the West that have any sense of ability to lead..... Winterefll where Sansa rules the new Northern Kingdom and the western part of Westeros, and Stormsend (storms end being a fitting name for the end of the song of ice and fire) where Gendry Baratheon and his bride, Arya the ninja are the seat of power for the east and south of Westeros.

Something like that.

I like the visuals....don't know if I like the story.

Frankly I don't know what I want in this ending.

Seems like King's Landing and the Red Keep are already close to completely destroyed.

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1 minute ago, Bobcat10 said:

Didn't the Red Keep collapse on Jamie/Cersei?  

Not all of it I don't think.  And there still has to be a scene of Dany in the throne room I would think to connect back to that one vision in season 2 in the house of the dead.

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1 hour ago, KarmaPolice said:

Gotcha.  I always took it as just royalty in the castle, but she was letting people into town as a buffer, but still not in the red keep.  So yes, the gates were shut, but citizens weren't piled in there, they were #### as an extra buffer.  :shrug:

Ugh, why would she need to do anything if she was just letting people in to the town, you know, where most of them live and already are?  She was doing something unusual by adding extra protection and letting them into the red keep.  So that Dany would have to kill more innocents if she went for her in the red keep.

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Posted (edited)

And that's part of the larger point to Dany going crazy.  Cersei tired to surround her self with innocents thinking it might protect her and as it turns out Dany just started killing them off in Kings Landing anyway.  That's when Ceresi knew, although had to be convinced by her hand, that they were f'd.  

Edited by tonydead

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26 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

Dorne :D

The sand snakes are dead so i guess that's addition by subtraction but they lost oberyn, their king, their prince, the dude with the axe, and all of the soldiers they sent to Dany on yara's ships.  

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20 minutes ago, Yankee23Fan said:

Not all of it I don't think.  And there still has to be a scene of Dany in the throne room I would think to connect back to that one vision in season 2 in the house of the dead.

So, if we do see that scene, is it the same scene from season 2? Meaning it was actually shot in season 2 and they are using it now? Or is it a reenactment? These are the things i think of. :lol: 

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Arya should take out Dany on the down low. Steal her face, do the whole Clark Kent/Superman thing. That way she could be a hot blonde chick, rule the 7 kingdoms and ride a dinosaur when she was up for it. Also, she could go back to being silent assassin Arya and hook up with Gendry again when she felt like taking junkets up north to visit Sansa and whatnot. Win-Win for everybody.

Of course her bumbling hand Tyrion would schedule them both to be in the same place within hours of her telling him and It all goes sideways.

Ship it to the iron bank bromigos.

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10 minutes ago, tonydead said:

Ugh, why would she need to do anything if she was just letting people in to the town, you know, where most of them live and already are?  She was doing something unusual by adding extra protection and letting them into the red keep.  So that Dany would have to kill more innocents if she went for her in the red keep.

Why were there 0 people in the keep as it crumbled? 

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Again, my take is that it was unusual to let more people into town to suck up resources as a battle looms. It was brought up previously that people were being kept out of KL as #### was hitting the fan in previous seasons - hence Cersei was doing it to make Danys troops go through more innocent people if they came into KL.  

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:

Bran/the Starks have ZERO claim to the throne so I think you're safe.

HOUSE TULLY

Edmure Tully is still alive

HOUSE ARRYN

"Sweet" Robyn Arryn is still alive

HOUSE GREYJOY

Yara Greyjoy is still alive

HOUSE MARTELL

There's noone of merit or show importance alive. They mentioned the New Prince of Dorne

HOUSE LANNISTER

Tyrion is still alive

HOUSE BARATHEON

Gendry Baratheon is still alive. But he's a bastard up jumped by a crazy Queen.  Don't know how much water that would hold in a claim on the Iron Throne.

HOUSE STARK

Sansa, Arya and Bran Stark are still alive.

HOUSE TYRELL

There's noone of merit or show importance alive. I'd assume that Samwell Tarly (due to his fathers perceived importance) would be a ranking person in The Reach. 

HOUSE TARGARYN

Aegon "Jon Snow" Targaryn is still alive.

 

If I was a betting man....If it isn't going to be Jon Snow.......I'd say Sweet Robyn. 

Edited by Thunderlips
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Jon Snow when meeting Daenerys for the first time:

Quote

...you haven't stormed Kings Landing.  Why not?  The only reason that I can see is that you don't want to kill thousands of innocent people.  Which means at very least you are better than Cersei.


ummm.   Wrong!

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Thunderlips said:

HOUSE TULLY

Edmure Tully is still alive

HOUSE ARRYN

"Sweet" Robyn Arryn is still alive

HOUSE GREYJOY

Yara Greyjoy is still alive

HOUSE MARTELL

There's noone of merit or show importance alive. They mentioned the New Prince of Dorne

HOUSE LANNISTER

Tyrion is still alive

HOUSE BARATHEON

Gendry Baratheon is still alive. But he's a bastard up jumped by a crazy Queen.  Don't know how much water that would hold in a claim on the Iron Throne.

HOUSE STARK

Sansa, Arya and Bran Stark are still alive.

HOUSE TYRELL

There's noone of merit or show importance alive. I'd assume that Samwell Tarly (due to his fathers perceived importance) would be a ranking person in The Reach. 

HOUSE TARGARYN

Aegon "Jon Snow" Targaryn is still alive.

 

If I was a betting man....If it isn't going to be Jon Snow.......I'd say Sweet Robyn. 

I'd take Gendry. It'd be some poetic justice if the bastard son of the usurper who kicked her family out and started the whole game of thrones thing in motion, whom she just legitimized, ended up being king after all this. Ser Davos as his hand.

Edited by Gr00vus
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

Why were there 0 people in the keep as it crumbled? 

I think you need to focus on the people scrambling around the Keep in what I'll call the courtyard, they showed it at least once from above.  There are gates/walls that get you into that area that were closed off.  I don't think he meant random people were actually in the structure itself.  

I think..

Edited by Bobcat10
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5 minutes ago, Bobcat10 said:

I think you need to focus on the people scrambling around the Keep in what I'll call the courtyard, they showed it at least once from above.  There are gates/walls that get you into that area that were closed off.  I don't think he meant people were actually in the structure itself.  

I think..

You're right. Arya, Sandor and Jamie all made it inside the city walls, but only Arya and Sandor made it inside the keep walls, Jamie got locked out and thus had to go to the smuggler bay to get in to the keep. I don't think they let the common folk inside the main keep buildings though.

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I get some of the complaints...and perhaps it would have been better to make this more than 6 episodes in sort of a mini-2 seasons season.

The first being a bit more about the night king and WWs and the dead.  To me, the biggest complaint shouldn't be about Dany's turn here...but how much "winter is coming" and the long winter and all of that was built up for years only to really give it one big episode to end it.  We had some other parts of it with Hardhome and when the group went north to get evidence for Cersei.  But the build up  and so much made it where it should have been given more importance there IMO.

The second part of the mini season would then set up more of the betrayal and loss for Dany that would have led to her mindset.  To be reminded of all the times she was ready to torch things but held back by her advisors.  To be reminded of the loss of Drogo, Jorah, Missandei...the betrayal of Varys and Jon turning her away...more of the rift between she and the North and Sansa....all of it building inside of her.

And in the end I guess the lack of a real confrontation between she and Cersei...rather than just staring from afar at the Red Keep and Cersei watching the Dragon do its thing.

And the laughing part of me thought it would have been funny to have had Cersei and Jamie on the beach ready to get into the boat and then get roasted together...or act as if she may show mercy (before destroying the rest of the city)...only to have Bran Warg into Drogon and get his own revenge.

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42 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Why were there 0 people in the keep as it crumbled? 

It's a large complex.  Of course there weren't people up in the tower standing right next to Ceresi.   So the tower, tower stairs and foyer is what we saw when she fled?  I'm assuming they were mostly in the courtyard and surrounding buildings that the army would have to go through to get to the tower, located somewhere in the middle, where she was located.  

It makes no sense to have to let people in to the city where they already live and work.

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54 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

Again, my take is that it was unusual to let more people into town to suck up resources as a battle looms. It was brought up previously that people were being kept out of KL as #### was hitting the fan in previous seasons - hence Cersei was doing it to make Danys troops go through more innocent people if they came into KL.  

The very reason that kings landing has a wall around the entire city is to protect it and it's people from siege.   

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2 hours ago, Yankee23Fan said:

Trying to think this through a little, but Jon killing Dany is a problem.

The Dothraki and Unsullied are loyal to her and only her.  If he kills her, they are going to kill him and probably everyone else around them as they go off the deep end because neither group is a governing force.  Greyworm is all about revenge now anyway.  And there is no army in Westeros left that can stand against them.  So in order for Jon to kill Dany they have to have switched sides, gone home to the east, or..... something.  Maybe Dany kills them all in a fit of rage with Drogon?  That would be...…. sadistically interesting.

How about this for a massive Hollywood type ****-show of an ending that could either be really bad or really amazing.

Jon and Tyrion realize that they need to end her but the Dothraki and Unsullied control the city, along with Drogon.  Somehow, and I have no idea how, they need to lure all of them into the Red Keep.  Maybe Tyrion sacrifices himself by some kind of assassination attempt that brings them all into the main gates of the castle and out of the city.  

Tyrion tells Jon about the dragon fire under the city.  And it turns out that they find a massive cache of it under the Red Keep.  They decide to blow it up just like Cersei did to the Sept and with it take out Dany, Drogon, the Unsullied and the Dothraki.  After Tyrion sacrifices himself, Jon manages to get down into the crypts, probably fighting off people, and in the end he sacrifices himself to destroy the Red Keep and everyone in it.

There is no more King's Landing as a seat of power.  Dany and her entire hoard are killed.  There is no more seat of power in the world, and in fact there are only two castles left in the West that have any sense of ability to lead..... Winterefll where Sansa rules the new Northern Kingdom and the western part of Westeros, and Stormsend (storms end being a fitting name for the end of the song of ice and fire) where Gendry Baratheon and his bride, Arya the ninja are the seat of power for the east and south of Westeros.

Something like that.

I like the visuals....don't know if I like the story.

Frankly I don't know what I want in this ending.

Dani knows that her father was going to use wildfire to blow up the city.  She knows it was hidden under the keep.  Why would she fall for luring everyone to the same place to get blown up?

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Jon and Tyrion should either be on the run on in chains. 

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1 hour ago, bostonfred said:

The sand snakes are dead so i guess that's addition by subtraction but they lost oberyn, their king, their prince, the dude with the axe, and all of the soldiers they sent to Dany on yara's ships.  

Forgot about the army getting drowned. Nevermind then

Dorne

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If we believe this show is fixated on foreshadowing the endgame, I think many are overlooking Sansa Stark.  If her character arc were a stock chart, it would point straight up from her infamous season 1 antics to her current status.  They've gone to some lengths to show she is a smart, merciful, benevolent leader of men, but with strength and willingness to punish those who deserve it.  My out-of-left field prediction is that Kings Landing is abandoned as the seat of power.  With the wall down, Winterfell becomes the center of power in Westeros with Sansa as queen.

 

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2 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

Forgot about the army getting drowned. Nevermind then

Dorne

My recollection was that they were attacked on the way to Dorne to pick up the army, not on the way back. But maybe I am misremembering. 

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3 minutes ago, Mile High said:

Jon and Tyrion should either be on the run on in chains. 

Yeah she's definitely going to want to "fire" (wocka wocka) Tyrion after she finds out he let Jaime go.

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People keep postulating that Bran will warg into Drogon for various reasons - but I thought that Bran could only warg into simple-minded animals and humans.  Isn't the dragon supposed to be an intelligent animal, thus unable to be warged?

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7 minutes ago, Good Posting Judge said:

Yeah she's definitely going to want to "fire" (wocka wocka) Tyrion after she finds out he let Jaime go.

Yep. Not sure he is going to die, but he definitely will face some consequence from her.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, the moops said:

Yep. Not sure he is going to die, but he definitely will face some consequence from her.

Takes away the Hand and sends him on his way. Gives it to the dickless guy (can’t think of his name) 

Edited by Capella
Greyworm!

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11 minutes ago, CletiusMaximus said:

If we believe this show is fixated on foreshadowing the endgame, I think many are overlooking Sansa Stark.  If her character arc were a stock chart, it would point straight up from her infamous season 1 antics to her current status.  They've gone to some lengths to show she is a smart, merciful, benevolent leader of men, but with strength and willingness to punish those who deserve it.  My out-of-left field prediction is that Kings Landing is abandoned as the seat of power.  With the wall down, Winterfell becomes the center of power in Westeros with Sansa as queen.

 

possibly.   But the previews show Dany walking out on the plaza with all her soldiers in formation-  the entrance of the queen of ashes.   She's going to take  the throne.

 

whether she keeps it or not is the looming question

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10 minutes ago, cashman88 said:

People keep postulating that Bran will warg into Drogon for various reasons - but I thought that Bran could only warg into simple-minded animals and humans.  Isn't the dragon supposed to be an intelligent animal, thus unable to be warged?

So maybe he'll warg into Jon to kill Dany?

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3 hours ago, tonydead said:

She torched the city that came crashing down on them.  People talk like it was an accident or something.  

Well, yeah obviously, I'm saying lit up like the others. Que sera...

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3 hours ago, Pipes said:

Good post but I think you got this part flipped.  Most seemed to enjoy it.  I think it’s the vocal minority in that didn’t.  I could be wrong but most everyone in my circles loved it.  Though I don’t hang around a bunch of book dorks though.

Those I know seem pretty split on it. Some loved it, some absolutely hated it, and a few were "meh" (like me). Apparently it received the worst rating on Rotten Tomatoes in the show's entire history.

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@KarmaPolice

Here is where Hound, Arya and Jamie enter Kings Landing right before they shut the doors and before the #### hits the fan.   

Later on after the war breaks out Hound and Arya make it past the Red Keep doors and Jamie is shut out.  

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18 minutes ago, Capella said:

Takes away the Hand and sends him on his way. Gives it to the dickless guy (can’t think of his name) 

Think we're down to only one dickless guy on the show now.

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Capella said:

Takes away the Hand and sends him on his way. Gives it to the dickless guy (can’t think of his name) 

Nah, Baby...you just don't sent away good Dwarf ####.  You find a reputable #### merchant and sell that #### by the ounce for fat gold. 

Edited by Thunderlips
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3 hours ago, Good Posting Judge said:

There are a lot of dumb complaints about the show, how cersei died and jon not petting the dog (jfc) paramount among them.

Another dumb criticism is that The Hound was on the road with Arya for the whole ride down to Westeros, why tell her then to turn back. Gee, it's almost as if there were some dangerous circumstances afoot or something.

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17 minutes ago, tommyboy said:

possibly.   But the previews show Dany walking out on the plaza with all her soldiers in formation-  the entrance of the queen of ashes.   She's going to take  the throne.

 

whether she keeps it or not is the looming question

Isn't there some sort of selection process or conclave when it's uncertain who should become King or Queen? Seems like that kind of situation could arise if Dany gets offed, which seems exceedingly likely at this point.

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