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Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory...NERDS already ruining a series that hasn't started (6 Viewers)

Mario Kart said:
After some reflection about this past episode... the way things were handled were awesome. What more does a person need? Who wants to see 3-4 episodes of Dany slowly going mad? Actually, she has always been mad against people that are in her way. She really didn't go "mad," she went Dany in the best way Dany can go Dany. Is she doesn't lose Jorah, Missandei, Aegon, her dragons, the Dothraki, and so on... she stays lovable. She did what she knows best to do.

If Aegon would simply love his aunt and love her hard, no problems. Blame Aegon.
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Enemies. 

Were the citizens standing in her way for anything? 

 
mozzy84 said:
yea it was a courtesy nod anyways, the darwf and greyworm were standing there.    Greyworm looked like yea whatever....
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This didn't answer my question, was this scene first or the Jon not giving it up scene? 

Do you not think she was agreeing to Tyrions idea at this time? 

 
-fish- said:
She never agreed
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You saying the nod was just dismissing Greyworm?   That part of the interesting thing about these thread - how people read a scene.  I read it as after thinking a few seconds, she nodded in agreement and was looking at Greyworm so he got the message too.   Part of the statement to Tyrion about not screwing up I took to mean that this better be a good idea and work. 

D&D also said that her act wasn't premeditated, seeing the Red Keep set her off (for some reason). 

 
That was a token nod for sure.  Maybe intended for Tyrion, but she was looking at Grey Worm.  Follow my lead nod.  She argued against Tyrion that entire scene.  Nothing was premeditated or ruled out, imo.

 
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KarmaPolice said:
This didn't answer my question, was this scene first or the Jon not giving it up scene? 

Do you not think she was agreeing to Tyrions idea at this time? 
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This is the order

bostonfred said:
There's something you need to know

Someone has betrayed me 

Jon snow

Varys

He knows the truth about jon

He does

Because you told him.  You learned from sansa, and she learned from jon, even though i begged him not to tell her.  As i said, he betrayed me. 

I'm glad sanda told me. I am your hand.  I need to be aware of any threats you are facing 

And varys?

Your master of whispers needs to be aware too.

You spoke to him first without coming to me. 

It was a mistake. 

Why do you think sansa told you? What do you think she had to gain? 

She trusts me

Yes she trusts you.  She trusts you to spread secrets that could destroy your own queen, and you did not let her down. 

If i have failed you my queen, forgive me.  Our intentions were good.  We wanted what you want, a better world.  Varys as much as anyone. It doesn't matter now. 

It doesn't matter now.  

...

Varys is arrested by grey worm and brought to danny, drogon, jon and tyrion. 

It was me.

I hope i deserve this.  Truly i do.  Goodbye old friend. 

Lord varys, i danaerys of horse targaryen, breaker of chains and mother of dragons, sentenced you to die. Dracarys.

...

This is all she brought with her when she crossed the narrow sea.  Her only possession. (Hands chain to grey worm who throws it in the fire. Jon arrives) 

It's all right Torgo Nudho.  Let me speak with him. 

(Grey worm leaves) 

What did i say would happen if you told your sister? 

I don't want it. And that's what i told him. 

She betrayed your trust. She killed varys as much as i did.  This is victory for her. Now she knows what happens when people hear the truth about you. Far more people in westeros love you than love me. I don't have love here.  I only have fear.

I love you. You will always be my queen. 

Is that all i am to you? Your queen? (They kiss, jon pulls back.  She looks hurt.)

All right then.  Let it be fear.

....

Tyrion - The people who live there they're not your enemies.  They're innocents, like the ones you liberated in mereen.

In mereen the slaves turned on their masters and liberated the city themselves the moment i arrived. 

They're afraid. Anyone who resists us he will see his family butchered.  You can't expect them to be heroes.  They're hostages.

They are.  In a tyrants grip. Whose fault is that?  Mine. 

What does it matter whose fault it is?  Thousands of children will die if the city burns. 

Your sister knows how to use her enemies weaknesses against them. That's what she thinks our mercy is. Weakness. 

I beg you my queen...

But she's wrong. Mercy is our strength.  Our mercy towards future generations who will never again be held hostage by a tyrant.  Ready the unsullied.  Tonight you sail for kings landing to join the northern armies. 

Cersei's followers will abandon her if they know the war is lost. Give them that chance.  If the city surrenders they will ring the bells and raise the gates.  Please.  If you hear them ringing the bells call off the attack. 

(Danaerys does not respond, turns to grey worm) Wait for me outside the city.  You'll know when it's time. 

(Tyrion begins to leave) 

Your brother was stopped trying to get past our lines. It seems he hasn't abandoned your sister after all.  Next time you fail me will be the last time you fail me. 
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Really don't think Dany gave a hoot about the wild fire, she was riding an incinerator around.

Took the wild fire poofs to be Qyburn's failed fail safes.  Why would he need to volunteer to anyone where he had it stashed at?

 
bostonfred said:
This is the order
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Thanks - I could be wrong about the nod, just saying that's how I read the scene.  Also in that scene that you posted we have:

In mereen the slaves turned on their masters and liberated the city themselves the moment i arrived. 

Your sister knows how to use her enemies weaknesses against them. That's what she thinks our mercy is. Weakness. 

But she's wrong. Mercy is our strength.  Our mercy towards future generations who will never again be held hostage by a tyrant.  Ready the unsullied.  Tonight you sail for kings landing to join the northern armies. 

Now, the people didn't turn instantly or go after warriors, but given the chance (yes, with a dragon breathing on them) they surrender and her armies turned on Cersei.  Isn't that basically what she wanted here?  

 
KarmaPolice said:
Now, the people didn't turn instantly or go after warriors, but given the chance (yes, with a dragon breathing on them) they surrender and her armies turned on Cersei.  Isn't that basically what she wanted here?  
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That's not how tyrion sees it. His side of the conversation reveals exactly what he thinks she is going to do and what he is afraid of

bostonfred said:
The people who live there they're not your enemies.  They're innocents, like the ones you liberated in mereen..... They're afraid. Anyone who resists us he will see his family butchered.  You can't expect them to be heroes.  They're hostages.... What does it matter whose fault it is?  Thousands of children will die if the city burns... I beg you my queen... Cersei's followers will abandon her if they know the war is lost. Give them that chance.  If the city surrenders they will ring the bells and raise the gates.  Please.  If you hear them ringing the bells call off the attack. 
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Tyrion was pleading for her to at least stop the attack if she hears the bells. 

It sounds pretty clear that he knew she would start burning the city, since he said it. He knew that thousands of children might die, and so did she. And he knew she might keep going even after they surrendered. He was literally begging her not to.  

It's not the first time he said please don't burn the city down.  It's not even the second time.  This was his fear all along. 

It's what varys saw too and why the guy who asked ned back in season one "when you look at me do you see a hero" died to protect the realm from her. 

 
bostonfred said:
That's not how tyrion sees it. His side of the conversation reveals exactly what he thinks she is going to do and what he is afraid of

Tyrion was pleading for her to at least stop the attack if she hears the bells. 

It sounds pretty clear that he knew she would start burning the city, since he said it. He knew that thousands of children might die, and so did she. And he knew she might keep going even after they surrendered. He was literally begging her not to.  

It's not the first time he said please don't burn the city down.  It's not even the second time.  This was his fear all along. 

It's what varys saw too and why the guy who asked ned back in season one "when you look at me do you see a hero" died to protect the realm from her. 
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Like I said, that's not how I read it as I was watching it live. 

I thought the fear was that she would mow through the civilians to get to Cersei - they knew she was letting people into KL thinking they wouldn't do that.  He was afraid of high collateral damage from her and the troops as they went through KL, so he was saying that they will turn on Cersei so she doesn't have to go this route.   I don't think that it entered Tyrion's mind that she would systematically go through the streets with the dragon and torch everybody - citizens, her troops, Cersei's troops.  I took it that his and everybody's fear was that she was willing to accept a lot of collateral damage to take the throne, not that she was going to commit genocide.  

When she took off from the wall I thought - oh #### she is just going to ignore him and make a beeline for Cersei and destroy the Keep so there is no shot of her getting out of this.  

 
Mile High said:
In season 6 episode 9.. when the masters attacked Meereen, Dany and Tyrion were having a nice little chat in which Danaerys tells Tyrion that she is going to destroy the city (since that is what the masters want). Tyrion says,

“You once told me you knew what your father was! Did you know his plans for kings landing when the lannister armies were at his gates?…...Probably not..Well, he told my brother and Jaime told me. He had caches of wildlife hidden under the Red Keep, the Guildhalls, the Sept of Baelor, all the major thoroughfares. He would have burned every one of his citizens. The loyal ones and the traitors. Every man, woman and child. That's why Jaime killed him.”

Daenerys says, “This is entirely different”.

Tyrion says, “Talking about destroying cities!!….it’s not entirely different”.
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Totally forgot about that because it was one of those statements that made no sense when it was made. There is no way Tyrion would know that because neither he nor Cersei looked for the wildfire when they actually needed/wanted it (Battle of the Blackwater) - they tasked the pyromancers to make it.

 
Moe. said:
It's weird to me that people think there is a "correct" answer here. I understand the points fred and his ilk are making - I just don't agree. This season has really fallen flat for me, that's just been my natural reaction when watching the episodes. No amount of explanations or "hey remember this line" is going to change my thoughts. 
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I only read a few pages back, but, I don't see anyone trying to change your mind.

 
My complaint remains it was all just rushed.  And a huge misuse of Headey this season.  Barely on screen at all.  Varys did almost nothing til last episode too.

really should have had season 7 go 9-10 episodes and end with the Battle of Winterfell.  Then could even make people happy by building up the final siege a bit. 

 
zoonation said:
Difference being that the Mad King was going to light the city up as a last resort.  Burn as many of the conquering forces (innocents be damned) as he could.  

Dany did it on the front end.  No threat.  

Both bananas.  One way worse.  

Turns out Dany is the most evil person ever in GOT lore.  
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I’ve never considered Dany a virtuous character, but I wouldn’t consider her the most evil person in GoT lore. That honor goes to Ramsay Bolton. 

 
sho nuff said:
 And a huge misuse of Headey this season.  Barely on screen at all. 
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take all my  :wub:  for that post. 

surprised this misuse has yet to be slammed as much ('cept for me) - Headey had gone on to equal Dinklage in overall brilliance, if not surpass him, the previous two seasons - especially with the Imp being nuetered in Camp C### (<--- think of the Hound's fave word) - they relegated him to a glorified ####### chambermaid  :crazy:

she was my fave since jump, loved her understated melancholy, so many scenes where her pain had to be quashed under bravado - she carried it off so effortlessly that she fooled most into seeing her as villainous rather than resilient - she was playing 3D chess in her scenes while the great majority of fandom were only seeing checkers - i knew she was doomed, held out little hope of her surviving ... so her death came as no shocker, and i thought it was carried off quite well - glad she was spared the dimwits "DRACARYS!!!!" frying.  her last scenes with Jaime allowed for a most bittersweet (there's that word again!!1!) farewell ... she was always an incredibly vulnerable soul, the icy exterior belying a very complex suite of failures and heartache.  i loved her, and i salute Lena for breathing such sublime life into Cersei Lannister. 

R.I.P., my Queen. 

on a somewhat related note, i believe the actress/character who grew so remarkably well was Turner/Sansa ... arguably the best player of the game remaining, and certainly it's strongest, imo.  Sophie has been killing it since Littlefinger/the Vale - her growth, along with her character's maturation, has been the biggest surprise highlight, acting wise, of the past few seasons.

 
I kind of agree with the lack of Cersei but what was there for her to do? She sat out the zombie fight and was just waiting for the fight to arrive. 

 
Dany wins.

Greyworm is new Hand of the Queen.

Tyrion dead.

Jon goes North of the wall.

Arya kills Dany.

Sansa keeps Winterfell.

A new war begins for control of the realm as Dany flies to unknown lands west of Westeros.

 
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