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Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory

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54 minutes ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

..bastards and other broken things...

I figured that I had this wrong, so I googled. (I had it wrong.)

But, unexpected luck found me. One of the first things that popped up was a Salon article from yesterday on the Arthur stuff.

I don't agree with all of her piece, but she explains it a lot better than I have here.

"Game of Thrones" ended as it began, subverting the chivalric tradition for a more progressive medieval fantasy

Quote

From the beginning, "Game of Thrones" was a corrective not just to traditional medieval fantasy like J.R.R. Tolkien's "Lord of the Rings" but of the Arthurian legends and chivalric romances that inspire it. Martin's story, while embracing the thrills and romance of the chivalric tradition, also calls into question some of the more repressive values embodied in these stories and the way that reactionary writers and thinkers have drawn on these traditions to justify their hostility to social progress and change.

 

Edited by Man of Constant Sorrow

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Since the Salon article mentioned Tolkien - I always wondered what would have happened to Galadriel - if she had accepted the One Ring from Frodo.

Quote

She was one of the greatest of the Eldar in Middle-earth, and surpassed nearly all others in beauty, knowledge, and power. She was also the bearer of Nenya, one of the three Elven rings of power. J.R.R. Tolkien thought of her, along with Gil-galad the Elven-king, as one of the mightiest and fairest of all the Elves left in Middle-earth.

She was tempted:

Frodo offers the One Ring to Lady Galadriel -The Fellowship of the Ring

Quote

“In place of a Dark Lord, you would have a queen! Not dark, but beautiful and terrible as the dawn! Treacherous as the sea! Stronger than the foundations of the earth! All shall love me, and despair!”

*movie quote - text is slightly different

Could Dany be similar? Drogon being the One Ring to rule them all...? Does that One Ring now fly free?

Not in a river where Gollum murdered for it; nor under a mountain where Bilbo stole it.

And, not yet accidentally destroyed in a volcano as Frodo & Gollum fought over it.

It is now without a Master; waiting for the next Gollum or Bilbo - or worse - to obtain it. 🤔

 

It is a long cycle of: One Ring is forged by Sauron in fire (dawn) and ushers in a Great War. It is then lost into the water (sea) after the war, where it is later found by Gollum.

Gollum then takes One Ring into the mountains (earth) where it is later stolen by Bilbo. Bilbo then takes the One Ring and passes it on to Frodo, who destroys it in a volcano (fire) with Gollum...which is the crux of a Great War....Ring & magic are lost/destroyed in fire.

Dany then re-forges the One Ring (Drogon/dragons) in the fire. In doing so, she ushers in (partly) a Great War & the return of magic. When Dany is mortally wounded, the One Ring then flies away into the air...lost again - as it was after all the previous Great Wars (either destroyed or literally lost).

That completes the trope cycle of: Earth/Air/Fire/Water and comments on the increased future potential of another Great War, imo. And, magic is still in the world. 

That is a much darker ending than the Destruction of the Ring in LoTR, imo.

Edited by Man of Constant Sorrow
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6 hours ago, Good Posting Judge said:

How is Grey Worm cool with Jon joining the Night's Watch, if he knows the Night's Watch has been rendered obsolete by the big-### hole in the wall? That all of the zombies poured through?

 

Night's Watch will never be obsolete.  At the beginning of the series, White Walkers were just a myth.  No one had seen them for a 1000 years.  The Nights Watch had evolved from protecting the realm from White Walkers to protecting the realm from Wildlings.  Sure there's a truce now, but anything can happen.  There is always something to protect the realm from.  It's main purpose was more like a halfway house for people to regain their honor and become productive members of society.      

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Rewatched the finale again last night....jon n tyrion convo was amazing and i knew jon was gonna kill danny....should of just went black there....not a fan of bran thing.....

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55 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

I like this guy....his nfl draft one is funny

He also does NBA and College sports stuff. He's better than normal reactors because he is giving us a skit instead of just reacting to a video.

 

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15 hours ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

After thinking a bit, I think the reason I was so capable of being satisfied by "anything" is because I actually entered this season knowing nothing.

Man of Constant Sorrow...you knew nothing :lmao: I kill me!

15 hours ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

In the big picture, right now, this leads me to believe that the "end" was G's and the "highway" was D&D's...and the 2 lost good communication somewhere along the way.

This is so good. Spot on :thumbup:

14 hours ago, The Dude said:

Then she wants go out on this big mystery - "what's West of Westeros" - only to find a ship apparently headed there.

Pretty sure at that point in the story, a Stark could get whatever they wanted. The big wolf's head on the sail was a bit telling as well but feel free to gloss over the obvious.

11 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

So Bran just played the ultimate long game for the throne? 

Lies about not being able to be a ruler in Winterfell? Tells Jon he has to chose knowing that its going to lead to the death of 1000s? 

Forget a rewatch looking for the clues of Dany's descent- watch again realizing what an evil mo-fo Bran was since he admitted that is why he was there at the end- to take the throne.  

:goodposting:The further removed I am from the ending the more I come to appreciate just what a total ### Bran really is. I get it if he doesn't possess prescient thought but jeez dude, did you really need to kill all of ####### Westeros to achieve your goal? And more importantly, how long ago in the story did Bran have this course of action mapped out? Ostensibly he would have known this for a while or at a minimum, suspected the potential outcome. I rescind my vote as Dany being the biggest villain on the show and crown the new ####### Bran the Broken. Maybe the NK was right after all?

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21 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

These 3 might have something to say about that.  

Wrong. The jail scene alone negates whatever else they did or didn't do.

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12 minutes ago, Payne said:

Wrong. The jail scene alone negates whatever else they did or didn't do.

I can see boobs online whenever I want.  Those 3 were god awful 

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12 hours ago, -fish- said:

This thread amazes me in that so many people are bad at watching TV.  How did you manage to miss the dire wolf on the sail?  It’s her ship. 

I guess I was checked out by then due to first hour and 19 minutes of disappointment.

Edited by The Dude

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38 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

I can see boobs online whenever I want.  Those 3 were god awful 

What was wrong with them?

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3 hours ago, Captain Cranks said:

The writers don't either.  HTH.

Trying to think of a parallel to what these guys did.  There have been shows where the ending was subpar for sure.  Shows like Lost where the writing went of the rails pretty early on.  But it seems like these guys were just tired of the show/fans so they rushed it and took a pass on actually developing plot points.  It is a shame because the music, visuals, and acting was still fantastic.  The two episodes they didn't write (particularly "A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms") have dialogue as good as anything we have seen.  But then they just rushed through the rest of it...lazily. 

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3 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

The characters or the boobs? 

Heh, the former.

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Just now, Bonzai said:

Heh, the former.

I think the characters were horrible and the actors some of the worst the show had.  I cringed every time they had screen time.  

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20 hours ago, belljr said:

Remember that time Jon burnt his hand on the lantern?   I'm sure dragon fire is different

I'm not saying Drogon can't physically do it, I'm saying he won't because he knows Jon is a Targ

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Just now, mozzy84 said:

What a tool.   What he said didn't even make sense, he looked high as a kite again too.

You pic fits your post.  :lol:

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On 5/20/2019 at 9:29 PM, sn0mm1s said:

or the 2016 Atlanta Falcons.

:hifive: Best post of the last 20 pages, of which I am still catching up on. 

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Damn. Finally powered through the 25 pages since Sunday morning. About what I expected. :lol: 

One thing I didn't see mentioned (I might have missed it though, I skimmed most of the back and forth arguing)... 

I appreciated the final scene's callback to the opening scene in 1.01, where the Night's Watch men were leaving the Wall and going in to the woods where they encountered the White Walker. Full circle. The wheel, if you will. 

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Just now, Nathan R. Jessep said:

Damn. Finally powered through the 25 pages since Sunday morning. About what I expected. :lol: 

One thing I didn't see mentioned (I might have missed it though, I skimmed most of the back and forth arguing)... 

I appreciated the final scene's callback to the opening scene in 1.01, where the Night's Watch men were leaving the Wall and going in to the woods where they encountered the White Walker. Full circle. The wheel, if you will. 

Yep. Series began with a ranging north into the oncoming winter, ended with a ranging north into the oncoming spring. That was good.

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So basically they couldn't think of anything good for the season, so they just redid a handful of scenes from S1? 

;)

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8 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

So basically they couldn't think of anything good for the season, so they just redid a handful of scenes from S1? 

;)

THIS...IS...BRILLIANT!!!!

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15 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

So basically they couldn't think of anything good for the season, so they just redid a handful of scenes from S1? 

;)

 

6 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

THIS...IS...BRILLIANT!!!!

would've been awesome if Bran called back to the greatest King of them all, Bobby B and his dressing down of King's guard Jaime:

Bran (to Brienne): "now you just get to stand there as i warg and pop wheelies and sweep my bangs aside!!!"

Edited by otb_lifer

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Remember when Danaerys was like oh the army of the dead is going to kill everyone?  I'd be happy to help but only if you bend the knee.  

#allthesignswerethere

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4 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

I think the characters were horrible and the actors some of the worst the show had.  I cringed every time they had screen time.  

Huh, they didn't really stick out to me at all.  Just thought it was an odd thing to jump on.

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2 hours ago, KarmaPolice said:

So basically they couldn't think of anything good for the season, so they just redid a handful of scenes from S1? 

;)

It sort of worked for Abrams with Star Wars: A New Hope redux, so why not?

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57 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

Remember when Danaerys was like oh the army of the dead is going to kill everyone?  I'd be happy to help but only if you bend the knee.  

#allthesignswerethere

Remember when Danaerys unjustly burned people thinking she was doing something morally good (or at least defensible) but it turned out she wasn't, leading us to believe that she had a flawed moral perspective?  Yeah, me neither.  We supported every "dracarys" decision she made.  

You can't get get over the final hurdle with any examples you provide.  There is a fundamental missing link:  taking what is hers with fire and blood will never amount to a cogent explanation for unnecessary genocide.  "I'll help you but only if you bend the knee" has no explanatory purchase for what she did in King's Landing.  None.

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14 hours ago, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

Since the Salon article mentioned Tolkien - I always wondered what would have happened to Galadriel - if she had accepted the One Ring from Frodo.

She was tempted:

Frodo offers the One Ring to Lady Galadriel -The Fellowship of the Ring

 

 

She scared the #### out of me during this.  She would have been interesting to watch with the precious.

 

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2 hours ago, bostonfred said:

Remember when Danaerys was like oh the army of the dead is going to kill everyone?  I'd be happy to help but only if you bend the knee.  

#allthesignswerethere

But in the end, didn't she say she was going to fight the army of the dead, before Jon bent the knee?

Edited by Mile High

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2 hours ago, zoonation said:

Remember when Danaerys unjustly burned people thinking she was doing something morally good (or at least defensible) but it turned out she wasn't, leading us to believe that she had a flawed moral perspective?  Yeah, me neither.  We supported every "dracarys" decision she made.  

You can't get get over the final hurdle with any examples you provide.  There is a fundamental missing link:  taking what is hers with fire and blood will never amount to a cogent explanation for unnecessary genocide.  "I'll help you but only if you bend the knee" has no explanatory purchase for what she did in King's Landing.  None.

Not to mention, Cersei said she would only help Ned if he bent the knee - and she sent ravens to pretty much everyone who were loyal to the North saying the same thing.

We also have the Freys saying the Starks could die outside their walls unless they betrothed their King and Princess to a Frey.

We also have the Tyrells starving Kings Landing and Stannis winning the Battle of the Blackwater unless Margaery becomes queen.

We also have Stannis killing Renly because he wouldn't bend the knee.

We also have Viserys, Illyrio, and Varys selling Daenerys for a Dothraki army.

The entire feudal system in Westeros is based on the quid pro quo structure.

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I can’t read this thread anymore ... but I keep clicking on it, do I have issues? 

When I say “click on it” ... I’m only just looking at the latest post - no way I’m digging through the “last read” garbage.

 

Carry on. 

 

Ps: it’s over bros and gros ... if ya want more, read the books. Or wait for the spinoff.

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Rewatching ep 6. There are things I'd change in there, but for the first 45 minutes it would be a pretty decent episode 8 of a normal season. 

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15 hours ago, beer 30 said:

Man of Constant Sorrow...you knew nothing :lmao: I kill me!

This is so good. Spot on :thumbup:

Thanks man. 

You slay me as well. 😁

 

However, I do have a question - not specifically aimed at you, but also at all the others who have expressed the following view (there are many):

15 hours ago, beer 30 said:

The further removed I am from the ending the more I come to appreciate just what a total ### Bran really is. I get it if he doesn't possess prescient thought but jeez dude, did you really need to kill all of ####### Westeros to achieve your goal? And more importantly, how long ago in the story did Bran have this course of action mapped out? Ostensibly he would have known this for a while or at a minimum, suspected the potential outcome. I rescind my vote as Dany being the biggest villain on the show and crown the new ####### Bran the Broken. Maybe the NK was right after all?

Irt 1st bold: Can someone explain why they think Bran did the killing?

Irt 2nd bold: What do you mean by "mapped out"? Do you equate seeing the future to making the future?

 

I understand that he can control things, kinda, via his own actions/magic, but he can only choose from the available options. Imo, he is a seer/magician not a god. Thus, he can't just make everything perfect.

When I go to the supermarket, I can choose what brand of milk to buy - but I can't create a new brand of milk on the spot. I think Bran chose the least spoiled milk currently available in the supermarket of Westeros.

 

Thus, he was not creating (or doing) what occurred; rather he decided which option (path) would occur out of all the possible and available options (paths).

And since we - as viewers - don't know exactly what would have happened if those other options were taken (sure, we can speculate - but we don't know) - how can we determine if Bran made the morally right decisions?

Bran is the only one that knows. Right? Not just the other possible paths - but also on whether or not he made that choice honorably.

 

Situation 1: Say he did some uber-magic that saved King's Landing. OK, great. Is the world now saved...or just KL?

Situation 2: Now, what if his visions previously showed him that the saving of KL would lead to a far far worse tragedy further down that road? Was not saving KL then the moral thing to do? Is the world better off, even though KL is ashes?

 

In short, I am asking others: by what criteria and data are you judging Bran? 

I see potential reasons and arguments that he can be considered "evil" - but I don't think it is the only conclusion.

This is what I like about it, actually.

 

Edited by Man of Constant Sorrow

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1 hour ago, Ray Barboni said:

I can’t read this thread anymore ... but I keep clicking on it, do I have issues? 

When I say “click on it” ... I’m only just looking at the latest post - no way I’m digging through the “last read” garbage.

 

Carry on. 

 

Ps: it’s over bros and gros ... if ya want more, read the books. Or wait for the spinoff.

LOL read what books exactly?

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5 hours ago, Scott Tenorman said:

 

She scared the #### out of me during this.  She would have been interesting to watch with the precious.

 

 

That's one of the best scenes in the LOTR trilogy, and one of the few in Peter Jackson's movies where they (wisely) kept almost all of the dialogue from the books.  The book takes pains to show her as this benevolent force, and then she demonstrates what would happen if she accepted the One.  It's awesome. 

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11 hours ago, Scott Tenorman said:
On 5/22/2019 at 2:43 AM, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

Since the Salon article mentioned Tolkien - I always wondered what would have happened to Galadriel - if she had accepted the One Ring from Frodo.

She was tempted:

Frodo offers the One Ring to Lady Galadriel -The Fellowship of the Ring

 

 

She scared the #### out of me during this.  She would have been interesting to watch with the precious.

I honestly think that GRRM actually did show her with the precious.

Since I posted that, I have thought of lots of other connections - but most are boring and not worth listing here. However, the new one that is my personal favorite is this...

Galadriel - from scene linked in quote, but book text:

Quote

She lifted up her hand and from the ring that she wore there issued a great light that illuminated her alone and left all else dark. She stood before Frodo seeming now tall beyond measurement, and beautiful beyond enduring, terrible and worshipful. Then she let her hand fall, and the light faded, and suddenly she laughed again, and lo! she was shrunken: a slender elf-woman, clad in simple white, whose gentle voice was soft and sad.

“I pass the test”, she said. “I will diminish, and go into the West and remain Galadriel.”

 Dany did not pass the test. She wanted to continue to use the One Ring (Drogon) to conquer the entire world.

Thus, she diminished as well - but she did not return or go into the Westlike Galadriel - with the heroes:

Lord of the Rings- The Grey Havens 

 

Rather, Dany returned to the East; the direct opposite direction of Galadriel and the LoTR heroes and elves.

East is the source/archetype of Evil in Tolkien world (during the LoTR time frame), and in Thrones, the East is also the original source of Dany and all Targ's & Dragons. Old Valyria. 

Quote

"I am Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen, of the blood of Old Valyria. I am the dragon’s daughter!"

 

So, how does Old Valyria relate to the Grey Havens symbolically?

Quote

Valyria was destroyed four centuries ago in a catastrophic volcanic event known as the Doom of Valyria, which shattered the Valyrian Peninsula, wiped out almost all the dragons in the world and created the much-feared Smoking Sea. The only major family of Valyrian dragonlords to survive the Doom were the Targaryens, who were living on Dragonstone at the time. The Targaryen dragons on their island were the only ones in the entire world to survive the cataclysm. A century after the Doom, Aegon I Targaryen invaded Westeros and conquered almost the entire continent, establishing a dynasty that was to last for three centuries.[2][3]

Like the Grey Havens, it is presently an unknown mystery - a place and source itself of magic. Also, the Grey Havens was created after the land was shattered in a previous Great War in Tolkien-world. Unlike LoTR, it has actually appeared in the story. But, it is in ruins. Still a mystery though, imo.

The text above also sounds a bit like Atlantis myths. It also sounds like Avalon myths. It should, imo, because they are all the same general trope with minor variations.

I am truly and firmly convinced, that GRRM did this intentionally. 

 

Oh - who got to Sail Into the West as a Hero? Arya. She slayed part of the One Ring (Ice Dragon via NK) - like Frodo. I don't think she qualifies as a "ring bearer" - but she was a Hero that did slay a Dragon - a part of the One Ring - plus the NK. 

Jon? He went North as The King - not East - not West. What does that say about him in regards to his moral fate? 

I think Jon was flawed but not fatally. He is the balance point between the two - he is free (Freefolk) now - it is up to him to decide his own future/fate now. Perhaps like Westeros itself? (Another version of...The King = The Land.) Jon is Aragon free from his duty as king - but he is still The King - just as Aragorn always was and would have been even if he had lost the final War of the Ring.

Bran = Throne - a king (selected), but not The King (Divine Right, blood right, inherited) This breaks the wheel of Absolute Monarchy - just as Dany intended. (This is not my own idea - plenty of others have already made this point - I add it for completion.) His is sitting in Aragorn's Throne, but is not Aragorn.

Sansa = Queen of the North - She is at Home. The Shire. She is the world of humanity. And fertility; note the Weirwood inlaid dress she wore at her coronation. She is the hope for the future.

Rickon = Learn to weave buddy. Death.

 

Am I missing any Stark kids?

Edited by Man of Constant Sorrow

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GOT has had some issues, but man LOTR is a snoozefest. Give me wacky character developments and starbucks cups everywhere over those dumb elves.

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I don't get the lotr comparisons.

This had way more incest, only one dwarf, hth.

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2 minutes ago, hooter311 said:

I don't get the lotr comparisons.

This had way more incest, only one dwarf, hth.

No prob.

Also, yeah - on the incest - read my Malory comp's.

Yeah. it help.

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On 5/20/2019 at 2:45 AM, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

...

3) The Sailing into West Avalon by Arya - who's fate was altered by Sandor while she stood upon The Three Sisters - The three who accompanied Arthur into the West in so many versions?

...

 

On 5/19/2019 at 10:59 PM, Man of Constant Sorrow said:

Because he was a true Targ and the true King.\

Drogon sniffed 3 times - very biblical and pagan - 3.

In my attempt to explain my ideas better, I am really trying to do a better job of sourcing.

I am sure this is not a clear explanation, but it is something I bet most of us have enjoyed before.

I found it when I was looking for another schoolrock song, and it made me think of this thread. Even if it don't explain much irt Thrones - it's great fun.

Schoolhouse Rock - 3 Is A Magic Number

Quote

Somewhere in the ancient mystic trinity
You get three as a magic number
The past and the present and the future

...

When it's three, you can see
It's a magic number

...

☘️  👨‍👩‍👦  🙈🙉🙊 🔱 🔺🔻:club: ❤️

Oh - note the run time of the vid... 

... 3:00

Edited by Man of Constant Sorrow
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