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Jamaal Charles Thread: Hall of Famer?

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29 minutes ago, shadyridr said:

Expected back week 3

Wonder if its the same source that a couple months ago was saying he would be ready for week 1

Edited by need2know
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Just now, Andrew74 said:

The first one he slipped on a first down marker as he went out of bounds. Freak accident and didn't involve cutting. 

Thanks. Wouldn't it be likely after two ACL surgeries that making cuts in the future could be hampered?

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4 minutes ago, pinkham13 said:

I would add in the receptions and a few kickoff returns too. If you do that he's at 1,654 total touches.

The more touches a RB has at any point in his career the more touches he has left (on average).

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2 minutes ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

The more touches a RB has at any point in his career the more touches he has left (on average).

Like Jamal Anderson? I know you said on average but I don't get it.

Edited by pinkham13

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3 minutes ago, pinkham13 said:

Thanks. Wouldn't it be likely after two ACL surgeries that making cuts in the future could be hampered?

Who knows with today's medical technology, but then there is age. Despite everyone's comments we won't know until he steps on the field. 

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Can't wait to come back in and check this thread after Charles comes back and starts lighting it up again. 

Lots of yummy crow to be eaten. 

Mid you think that Andy Reid is the type of coach to turn his back on the best player on his team BC another player had some success you don't know Andy Reid.  

If you own Charles you hold.  Plain and simple.  No selling low.  He will be back and by game 4 or 5 he will be back to his normal workload (which btw leaves room for ware to still have a role BC Charles was never a consistent 25 touch back).  

If you own ware you sell him NOW bc his value will never be able greater.  He will end up having the smaller slice of the timeshare once Charles is fully healthy which will be soon.  

Ware will still hold value but not like what he is now. 

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2 minutes ago, pinkham13 said:

Like Jamal Anderson? I know you said on average but I don't get it.

Touches are a great measure of talent -- and talented players play longer.

If I knew Charles was 100% recovered I'd be glad to bet on him for another ~2-3 years.

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10 minutes ago, need2know said:

Wonder if its the same source that a couple months ago was saying he would be ready for week 1

True, it's a wait and see. He still has only been working with the scout team which means they weren't even considering him as an option this week. Seems like a big move to go from not at all part of the plan to definitely playing. Who knows, maybe he is looking sharp with the scout team. It seems to me that the most likely scenario is Charles suffered a setback in camp. Reports went from positive to negative abruptly. Hard to tell what this means going forward. 

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1 hour ago, rickyg said:

Can't wait to come back in and check this thread after Charles comes back and starts lighting it up again. 

Lots of yummy crow to be eaten. 

 

That's cute. People might care what you have to say if we weren't all 100% sure you'll go into hiding and never come back if Charles doesn't return to form.

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Just now, JuniorNB said:

That's cute. People might care what you have to say if we weren't all 100% sure you'll go into hiding and never come back if Charles doesn't return to form.

You think illogic to hiding?  Care to put a monetary wager on that?

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4 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

That's cute. People might care what you have to say if we weren't all 100% sure you'll go into hiding and never come back if Charles doesn't return to form.

You obviously think I care about fantasy football way more than I actually do and that I attach it more to my ego and self worth than I do.  

Anyone who has trouble eating crow when they are wrong about a hobby where they have ZERO control over the outcomes has some issues.  

Happily eat crow if Charles sucks.  

Edited by rickyg

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4 minutes ago, rickyg said:

You obviously think I care about fantasy football way more than I actually do and that I attach it more to my ego and self worth than I do.  

Anyone who has trouble eating crow when they are wrong about a hobby where they have ZERO control over the outcomes has some issues.  

Happily eat crow if Charles sucks.  

:blackdot:

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14 minutes ago, rickyg said:

You obviously think I care about fantasy football way more than I actually do and that I attach it more to my ego and self worth than I do.  

Anyone who has trouble eating crow when they are wrong about a hobby where they have ZERO control over the outcomes has some issues.  

Happily eat crow if Charles sucks.  

Why would anybody on either side of Ware need to eat crow?  Ware's value is directly correlated to the health of Jamaal.  Last I checked--the status of Charles in regards to when he would return was cryptic at best before today.  Even after that report---nobody knows what kind of role or volume that Charles will have.  It's not like anybody here is misinterpreting available information.   Unless somebody here is a part of the Chiefs training/coaching staff-- we are all relying on hunches and gut instincts when it comes to this situation.   Let's not act like people that didn't believe in Ware were somehow more "correct" in regards to some sort of statistical analysis.  I can tell you that I personally drafted Ware in 2 of 3 leagues.  In one league I got him with my 14th round pick--the other I got him in the 10th--and he's single handedily basically won me my matchups in both leagues.    If Charles comes back next week--I will absolutely be targeting Ware as a buy low in my third league.  I hope the Ware owner is bummed out enough by the return of Charles to somehow forget that Ware is probably still a flex option as well as the best handcuff in fantasy football at that point.  

Edited by jvdesigns2002
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1 minute ago, jvdesigns2002 said:

Why would anybody on either side of Ware need to eat crow?  Ware's value is directly correlated to the health of Jamaal.  Last I checked--the status of Charles in regards to when he would return was cryptic at best before today.  Even after that report---nobody knows what kind of role or volume that Charles will have.  It's not like anybody here is misinterpreting available information.   Unless somebody here is a part of the Chiefs training/coaching staff-- we are all relying on hunches and gut instincts when it comes to this situation.   Let's not act like people that didn't believe in Ware were somehow more "correct" in regards to some sort of statistical analysis.  I can tell you that I personally drafted Ware in 2 of 3 leagues.  In one league I got him with my 14th round pick--the other I got him in the 10th--and he's single handedily basically won me my matchups in both leagues.   If Charles comes back next week--I will absolutely be targeting Ware as a buy low in my third league.  I hope the Ware owner is bummed out enough by the return of Charles to somehow forget that Ware is probably still a flex option as well as the best handcuff in fantasy football at that point.  

I was never a ware detractor.  I simply believe that there is a huge over reaction going on with Charles.  

Which I was happy about BC it allowed him to slip to me in the 3rd RD of my draft.   

I believe that Charles AND ware can have success in this offense.  

But charles will be the main guy and slide back into his usual role.  So he will be an rb1 again.  

Ware will have a role but it will be less.  He'll probably handle all gl and short yardage work, and he will spell Charles for a few series every game.  It will be enough to make him a valuable flex play. 

 

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23 minutes ago, rickyg said:

You think illogic to hiding?  Care to put a monetary wager on that?

I don't bet internet strangers. Especially ones with your character and track record. But I've seen trolls like you come and go. You run your mouth then come back to beat your chest if you're right, but disappear if you're wrong. Move along.

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5 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

I don't bet internet strangers. Especially ones with your character and track record. But I've seen trolls like you come and go. You run your mouth then come back to beat your chest if you're right, but disappear if you're wrong. Move along.

Huh?  I think you might be mistaking me for someone else.  You can move along to pahtna 

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Just now, rickyg said:

I was never a ware detractor.  I simply believe that there is a huge over reaction going on with Charles.  

Which I was happy about BC it allowed him to slip to me in the 3rd RD of my draft.   

I believe that Charles AND ware can have success in this offense.  

But charles will be the main guy and slide back into his usual role.  So he will be an rb1 again.  

Ware will have a role but it will be less.  He'll probably handle all gl and short yardage work, and he will spell Charles for a few series every game.  It will be enough to make him a valuable flex play. 

 

I totally get you and understand your point of view.  I think the point here is that the fantasy world generally tends to discount ambiguity.   Charles is a 29 year old RB that relies on cutting and slashing, that has decently high mileage, that is coming off a 2nd ACL injury. He also has a history of being an elite fantasy player--and if he wasn't coming off of an injury--he'd easily be a first round pick.  You essentially translated the ambiguity around his health into a 2 round draft discount.   If Charles returns to anything close to his prior form--he could be one the best steals of your draft.  

 I think if you go back  and read through this thread (or really the Ware thread)-very few (if any) people ever claimed that Ware is a flat out better player than Charles. Virtually every supporter of Ware has concerns about the ability of Charles to return to being a bell cow--or for being able to return to his prior form.   There is no analysis that can support nor prove this wrong beyond the "eye test".  I just don't see why anybody would need to eat crow about predicting health.   I drafted Keenan Allen in the late third round of my ppr draft a few weeks ago--do I need to eat crow for that?  Of course not.  The report that Charles may return next week seems very fishy to me.  The Chiefs have a week 5 bye week--and it seems very strange to me that they would bring Charles back to play 2 weeks ahead of this--when they could give JC an extra 3 weeks to heal.   

In any case--I do agree with your analysis about Charles being the best back to own of a Ware/Charles committee if/when Charles gets back.  No argument there--and no argument that Ware will probably go from an RB1 to a flex option with upside based on your analysis of his role in short yardage and goal line action.  

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if charles and ware split 30 carries and receptions  evenly 50/50, won't they both be RB1/High RB2? with all the comments of both ware/charles sides, i could not see why not :shrug:

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1 hour ago, gethugefast1 said:

if charles and ware split 30 carries and receptions  evenly 50/50, won't they both be RB1/High RB2? with all the comments of both ware/charles sides, i could not see why not :shrug:

Agreed.  As a Charles owner I'm so not worried. There's room for 2 guys to have good statistical seasons.  

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On 9/18/2016 at 0:26 PM, gethugefast1 said:

if charles and ware split 30 carries and receptions  evenly 50/50, won't they both be RB1/High RB2? with all the comments of both ware/charles sides, i could not see why not :shrug:

Yes - it's why I went out and traded for both guys.  Both could be had in my league.  When Charles comes back and people realize that both can exist.  That window will close

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How long should we wait on Charles? Serious question. With each week that goes by, it gets even more concerning. I have not seen any concrete information from the Chiefs on where exactly he is with his knee. I spent a 4th round pick on him in my 10 man league and all he's doing is taking up a valuable bench spot. Here we are week 4 and he is not even close to returning. That is very concerning considering the fact that his injury occurred a year ago. If he can't get back onto the field in 12 months, how is he going to heal up and be able to play in a few weeks?

Needless to say, I am very concerned. Does any KC homer have more information? Is it a confidence thing right now of being able to cut on that knee? Is it soreness? Is it lack of healing? What is going on here?

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3 minutes ago, [icon] said:

An upgrade for #KCChiefs RB Jamaal Charles: Coach Andy Reid says at his press conference he’s questionable for Sunday.

He's been saying this for weeks, without providing any specifics on what's going on. He must be the Donald Trump of coaching.

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15 minutes ago, SameSongNDance said:

Despite being listed as questionable (knee), Chiefs' RB Jamaal Charles will make 2016 season debut Sunday night in Pitt, per source.

Is he active only because West is hurt? I don't think the Chiefs have any intention of getting him involved yet. Still starting Ware with confidence.  

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3 minutes ago, abbottjamesr said:

Is he active only because West is hurt? I don't think the Chiefs have any intention of getting him involved yet. Still starting Ware with confidence.  

that's kind of my guess too.  I think he'll play for sure and if ware fumbles again may play more.  i bet we get more "reports" on potential usage before sunday night.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, abbottjamesr said:

Is he active only because West is hurt? I don't think the Chiefs have any intention of getting him involved yet. Still starting Ware with confidence.  

Hadnt really considered that until I saw your comment. That makes a lot of sense. In any case I imagine he will be eased in. 

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6 minutes ago, coachbobbyfinstock said:

In any case I imagine he will be eased in. 

You ever had your #### eeeeeeeeased in, bro?

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Just now, coachbobbyfinstock said:

?
what do you mean, i dont get it. 

 

You've obviously never seen Training Day...

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11 minutes ago, coachbobbyfinstock said:

Is that a football movie? Are your comments even about Jamaal Charles? 

:unsure:

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30 minutes ago, coachbobbyfinstock said:

Is that a football movie? Are your comments even about Jamaal Charles? 

:yes:

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Quote
 

Chiefs coach Andy Reid said Jamaal Charles (knee, questionable) still saw some scout-team work this week.

 

"It’s been good," Reid said of Charles' week of practice. "He’s done a little bit of team, a little bit of scout. He’s mixed it in and out and looks like he’s getting better all the time." Charles will reportedly make his debut this week, but it will be surprising if he sees more than a handful of touches with the bye week on the horizon. Spencer Ware should still operate as the lead back.
 
 
Source: kcchiefs.com 
Oct 1 - 10:29 AM

 

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Basically, you play Ware until something happens on the field to move you in another direction, including after the bye.

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1 minute ago, Magic_Man said:

How did Charles look out there?

Thinking about moving him for Ingram straight up in dynasty

If this is available to you, then you shouldn't be thinking about it very long.  No idea who in their right mind would deal Ingram for Charles in any league, but especially in a dynasty.

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27 minutes ago, BearsFan4Life said:

Charles owners ... are you starting him with confidence this week @ OAK.  I am starting him at FLEX over Landry and Maclin (no ppr)

He's gotta be ready to rock now... right?!  RIGHT?!

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On October 1, 2016 at 5:11 PM, Ojaays said:

Basically, you play Ware until something happens on the field to move you in another direction, including after the bye.

I agree with this. If there's some buzz directly from the Chiefs indicating Charles starts and gets the bulk I will change horses.

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I thought he looked stiff and unsure his first week back. I'd wait if I had somebody safer. 

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2 minutes ago, Milkman said:

I thought he looked stiff and unsure his first week back. I'd wait if I had somebody safer. 

Hard to blame him because of the wet field and rain

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I'll be starting him if he performs well enough in the survivor contest.:D

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Three touches is a tough sample size to base anything off of. Seems like a guy like JC would generate a lot of buzz if he was looking like his old self in prcatice the last couple weeks.

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On 9/30/2016 at 2:14 PM, ATB said:

You ever had your #### eeeeeeeeased in, bro?

Pretty sure it's pushed in, not eeeeeeeeeased or even eased in. The line is pushed. 

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2 minutes ago, TheFanatic said:

Pretty sure it's pushed in, not eeeeeeeeeased or even eased in. The line is pushed. 

:rolleyes:

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