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Official Tom Brady - bust alert (in 2013)

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2 hours ago, rockaction said:

Thanks for posting. I know that's per PFF, but where did you pull those stats? I think I have a fantasy scrip there, but am not checking the articles daily or even the next gen stats that I think are only available for Elite subscribers.

I also agree with your conclusion. I think he's been affected by his guys, but there's also been a visible physical decline over the past three years, actually, that nobody really saw or was hidden through game plans, etc. 

I linked the site with the separation data. The deep pass data is from PFF premium stats.

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Just now, Just Win Baby said:

I linked the site with the separation data. The deep pass data is from PFF premium stats.

I saw the links and clicked. One more click wound up in player shares commercials, though that's no fault of yours, I just didn't know where to look on the web page at first. The deep pass stuff is what I was looking for.

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6 hours ago, Faust said:

Without watching a 6 minute video, what's the breakdown? 

It won't happen but I'd like to see him play for his old buddy Mike. 

https://www.titansonline.com/video/tom-brady-gifts-mike-vrabel-a-trophy-for-win-vs-patriots-last-season

https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2020/01/17/mike-vrabel-tom-brady-hyenas

I don't know the stats, but how often has a player become the starting QB for his former teammate? 

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If he decides to keep playing, why wouldn't he continue to play with the Patriots? Maybe I've been living under a rock or something - has he said he wants to look elsewhere?

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1 hour ago, RushHour said:

If he decides to keep playing, why wouldn't he continue to play with the Patriots? Maybe I've been living under a rock or something - has he said he wants to look elsewhere?

he wants to be courted like rhw prima donna he is

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On 1/16/2020 at 5:47 PM, Anarchy99 said:

From the people I watch / read / follow, Brady has made it clear he is not retiring and he will be playing football next year. In fact, retiring may be so off the table now that I might not even list that as an option. The only way I think retiring makes it back as a consideration is if NE doesn't really want him back and / or they offer him like a $10 million, one year deal and no other team in the league wants him for a fair market deal. If his entire market is NE for $10 million or nothing, maybe he would have second thoughts about playing. But I don't see that happening, as there will be a team that would be willing to overpay him to get fannies in the seats and interest in their organization.

If you had to remove "retire" from your outcome percentages, how would you remap the "return to Pats" and "play elsewhere" allocations?

75/25 pats / elsewhere.

But I think the scenario you mentioned (nobody wants to pay him 35mm a year including the Pats is very real.

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I was wondering what the straw would be to break the camel's back and get me to not listen to sports talk radio . . . and I think I have found it.

The chatter today was how badly the Patriots messed up with Jimmy G and that they had the next great QB and they gave him away for next to nothing. Garoppolo is 23-5 as a starter. The Niners are in the SB and NE is home and in chaos. The Pats would have gone to the same two SBs they went to with Brady with Jimmy G. Blah blah blah.

Of course, they leave out he had made a total of two starts in his career when they traded him to SF and the market rate for an unproven backup generally has maxed out at a second round pick over the last 20 years. They were talking today that they easily could have had two firsts and a second for Jimmy.

Here’s what NE turned that one second round pick from SF into . . .

CB Duke Dawson
LB Christian Sam
CB Joejuan Williams
RB Damien Harris
OT Yodny Cajuste
QB Jarrett Stidham
DT Byron Cowart
2020 fourth-round pick

The other part that was rich was they talked about how NE had both Garoppolo AND Brisett and now they have nothing behind Brady. The irony is that back in the day they ragged on those two and at the time said they would never be NFL quarterbacks. Of course, they made Stidham out to be horrible too.

Sure, it would be nice if the Pats still had Garoppolo but that was never going to happen.

Edited by Anarchy99
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18 hours ago, SeniorVBDStudent said:

75/25 pats / elsewhere.

But I think the scenario you mentioned (nobody wants to pay him 35mm a year including the Pats is very real.

35m is insane for Brady at this point.   

Titans will probably pay tannehill between $25-30, maybe on 3 years.  I wouldn't be terribly upset if they gave a two year deal at ~$55m to Brady instead. 

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43 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

I was wondering what the straw would be to break the camel's back and get me to not listen to sports talk radio . . . and I think I have found it.

The chatter today was how badly the Patriots messed up with Jimmy G and that they had the next great QB and they gave him away for next to nothing. Garoppolo is 23-5 as a starter. The Niners are in the SB and NE is home and in chaos. The Pats would have gone to the same two SBs they went to with Brady with Jimmy G. Blah blah blah.

Of course, they leave out he had made a total of two starts in his career when they traded him to SF and the market rate for an unproven backup generally has maxed out at a second round pick over the last 20 years. They were talking today that they easily could have had two firsts and a second for Jimmy.

Here what NE turned that one second round pick from SF into . . .

CB Duke Dawson
LB Christian Sam
CB Joejuan Williams
RB Damien Harris
OT Yodny Cajuste
QB Jarrett Stidham
DT Byron Cowart
2020 fourth-round pick

The other part that was rich was they talked about how NE had both Garoppolo AND Brisett and now they have nothing behind Brady. The irony is that back in the day they ragged on those two and at the time said they would never be NFL quarterbacks. Of course, they made Stidham out to be horrible too.

Sure, it would be nice if the Pats still had Garoppolo but that was never going to happen.

Thank you. I quit listening to that drivel a couple years ago.  It's all retrofitting the current situation to the narrative. As you said, they never said any of this at the time. 

I'll listen to an actual game or update while on the road, but that's all those hacks get from me.

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4 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

I was wondering what the straw would be to break the camel's back and get me to not listen to sports talk radio . . . and I think I have found it.

The chatter today was how badly the Patriots messed up with Jimmy G and that they had the next great QB and they gave him away for next to nothing. Garoppolo is 23-5 as a starter. The Niners are in the SB and NE is home and in chaos. The Pats would have gone to the same two SBs they went to with Brady with Jimmy G. Blah blah blah.

Of course, they leave out he had made a total of two starts in his career when they traded him to SF and the market rate for an unproven backup generally has maxed out at a second round pick over the last 20 years. They were talking today that they easily could have had two firsts and a second for Jimmy.

Here’s what NE turned that one second round pick from SF into . . .

CB Duke Dawson
LB Christian Sam
CB Joejuan Williams
RB Damien Harris
OT Yodny Cajuste
QB Jarrett Stidham
DT Byron Cowart
2020 fourth-round pick

The other part that was rich was they talked about how NE had both Garoppolo AND Brisett and now they have nothing behind Brady. The irony is that back in the day they ragged on those two and at the time said they would never be NFL quarterbacks. Of course, they made Stidham out to be horrible too.

Sure, it would be nice if the Pats still had Garoppolo but that was never going to happen.

Id take jimmy G over that pile.....

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4 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

Id take jimmy G over that pile.....

They couldn’t keep him. So what they got is mostly irrelevant. But it’s way too soon to tell if that list of players will turn into anything. Although we can probably take JoeJuan Williams off the list. He got arrested on three drug charges since I posted the list of players. 

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5 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

They couldn’t keep him. So what they got is mostly irrelevant. But it’s way too soon to tell if that list of players will turn into anything. Although we can probably take JoeJuan Williams off the list. He got arrested on three drug charges since I posted the list of players. 

Looks like he had 'a controlled substance', 'drug paraphernelia, and prescription drugs w/o a prescription.  That could be a wide range of things but if it's just weed and Vicodin might not be a big deal.

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5 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

I was wondering what the straw would be to break the camel's back and get me to not listen to sports talk radio . . . and I think I have found it.

The chatter today was how badly the Patriots messed up with Jimmy G and that they had the next great QB and they gave him away for next to nothing. Garoppolo is 23-5 as a starter. The Niners are in the SB and NE is home and in chaos. The Pats would have gone to the same two SBs they went to with Brady with Jimmy G. Blah blah blah.

Of course, they leave out he had made a total of two starts in his career when they traded him to SF and the market rate for an unproven backup generally has maxed out at a second round pick over the last 20 years. They were talking today that they easily could have had two firsts and a second for Jimmy.

Here’s what NE turned that one second round pick from SF into . . .

CB Duke Dawson
LB Christian Sam
CB Joejuan Williams
RB Damien Harris
OT Yodny Cajuste
QB Jarrett Stidham
DT Byron Cowart
2020 fourth-round pick

The other part that was rich was they talked about how NE had both Garoppolo AND Brisett and now they have nothing behind Brady. The irony is that back in the day they ragged on those two and at the time said they would never be NFL quarterbacks. Of course, they made Stidham out to be horrible too.

Sure, it would be nice if the Pats still had Garoppolo but that was never going to happen.

Let’s face it. Bill traded his best long term asset for peanuts. Ironically Mr military strong arm was strong armed into doing the worst possible move for the team’s long term success. Without question he traded Jimmy G for a pile and the team now suffers as a result. Surely burns him. 

Edited by JetMaxx
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5 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

I was wondering what the straw would be to break the camel's back and get me to not listen to sports talk radio . . . and I think I have found it.

The chatter today was how badly the Patriots messed up with Jimmy G and that they had the next great QB and they gave him away for next to nothing. Garoppolo is 23-5 as a starter. The Niners are in the SB and NE is home and in chaos. The Pats would have gone to the same two SBs they went to with Brady with Jimmy G. Blah blah blah.

They'll be quiet when Jimmy throws 2 picks and fumbles in the SB.

Tbh, I hope I'm wrong but I think KC is going to embarass SF.

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11 minutes ago, JetMaxx said:

Let’s face it. Bill traded his best long term asset for peanuts. Ironically Mr military strong arm was strong armed into doing the worst possible move for the team’s long term success. Without question he traded Jimmy G for a pile and the team now suffers as a result. Surely burns him. 

Brady was the Patriots best chance at a SB and he won another.   They got what they wanted.  Of course, there would be a time when Jimmy G would become more valuable but they couldn't keep both guys financially.  The timing simply wasn't right.

I think any team would take a SB in hand even if it means they're less positioned for the long run.  Every situation is correctable.

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On 1/20/2020 at 7:18 AM, lod001 said:

San Diego QB position is open. Rivers is going to collect paychecks in Miami going forward. He just moved there.

Rivers' house is in Blue Mountain Beach which is near Destin.  He is 583 miles from Miami.  But he does have a sweet customized SUV that he used for his San Diego to LA commute.

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30 minutes ago, JetMaxx said:

Let’s face it. Bill traded his best long term asset for peanuts. Ironically Mr military strong arm was strong armed into doing the worst possible move for the team’s long term success. Without question he traded Jimmy G for a pile and the team now suffers as a result. Surely burns him. 

Nobody knew squat about Garoppolo at the time. He had played 6 quarters of football. NE was not getting much more than what they got for him. A second round pick. They took that pick and traded it for multiple other picks that landed them the players I listed. 

Anyone that thinks Jimmy G was some savant, generational, can’t miss QB is revising history. NE traded him while they still could before he became a free agent. 

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If Brady did leave, would Edelman somehow follow him?  Trade?

Seems like he needs that guy.  They need each other really

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27 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Nobody knew squat about Garoppolo at the time. He had played 6 quarters of football. NE was not getting much more than what they got for him. A second round pick. They took that pick and traded it for multiple other picks that landed them the players I listed. 

Anyone that thinks Jimmy G was some savant, generational, can’t miss QB is revising history. NE traded him while they still could before he became a free agent. 

I remember thinking at the time they could’ve gotten a bit more. Think they wanted to trade out of conference and Belichek just kinda said eff it.

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1 minute ago, Tool said:

I remember thinking at the time they could’ve gotten a bit more. Think they wanted to trade out of conference and Belichek just kinda said eff it.

They were up against the trade deadline in the middle of the season. Whoever the trade partner was going to be would have taken on Jimmy G for half a season with no guarantee he would re-sign there. So they would have to either franchise him or give him a boatload of money without a ton of experience. Not sure they could have gotten much more than they did. Maybe if they shopped him around they might have gotten a late round pick tossed  in. Way too many question marks involved to get a ton back for Garoppolo. He looked ok against the Cardinals in his first start for NE and looked great in the first half against the Dolphins the following week but got hurt. Not a ton to go on for evaluating his future success. 

As I mentioned earlier, if he got shipped off to a team like the Bengals, Redskins, etc., there wouldn’t be the revisionist history narrative that NE mucked things up. Similarly, Stidham has received high marks so far. The Patriots supplied SF and IND with viable NFL starters. One would think they may have something to work with in Stidham.

The real issue was Brady stayed playing at a high level for longer than most QBs and that messed up the timing in having Jimmy G stick with the team as an heir apparent. 

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12 hours ago, -OZ- said:

35m is insane for Brady at this point.   

Titans will probably pay tannehill between $25-30, maybe on 3 years.  I wouldn't be terribly upset if they gave a two year deal at ~$55m to Brady instead. 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Edited by msommer
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20 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

I was wondering what the straw would be to break the camel's back and get me to not listen to sports talk radio . . . and I think I have found it.

The chatter today was how badly the Patriots messed up with Jimmy G and that they had the next great QB and they gave him away for next to nothing. Garoppolo is 23-5 as a starter. The Niners are in the SB and NE is home and in chaos. The Pats would have gone to the same two SBs they went to with Brady with Jimmy G. Blah blah blah.

Of course, they leave out he had made a total of two starts in his career when they traded him to SF and the market rate for an unproven backup generally has maxed out at a second round pick over the last 20 years. They were talking today that they easily could have had two firsts and a second for Jimmy.

The other part that was rich was they talked about how NE had both Garoppolo AND Brisett and now they have nothing behind Brady. The irony is that back in the day they ragged on those two and at the time said they would never be NFL quarterbacks. Of course, they made Stidham out to be horrible too.

Sure, it would be nice if the Pats still had Garoppolo but that was never going to happen.

I'd take Brady over Garoppolo right now, let alone 3 years ago. They certainly don't win the Super Bowl last year without Brady. I highly doubt Jimmy G beats KC, let alone the Rams, hell, they probably don't even get the #2 seed. In 2017, I highly doubt Jimmy G makes it past the Jags defense. Even Brady needed 2 TD's in the last 9 minutes to come from behind. This year, the story is likely the same as it ended up being, not enough weapons. 

I'm not sure Stidham and Brissett are all that different either, although that isn't a compliment toward Stidham from me.

 

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On 1/23/2020 at 12:51 PM, travdogg said:

I'd take Brady over Garoppolo right now, let alone 3 years ago. They certainly don't win the Super Bowl last year without Brady. I highly doubt Jimmy G beats KC, let alone the Rams, hell, they probably don't even get the #2 seed. In 2017, I highly doubt Jimmy G makes it past the Jags defense. Even Brady needed 2 TD's in the last 9 minutes to come from behind. This year, the story is likely the same as it ended up being, not enough weapons. 

I'm not sure Stidham and Brissett are all that different either, although that isn't a compliment toward Stidham from me.

 

We know that Cassell, Hoyer and Brissett have limited ceilings (Brissett being better than the other two, but somewhere short of franchise).

We don't know yet what Jimmy is.  If we see 175/1/3 or 375/3/0 in the superbowl that will go part way in figuring out that riddle.  I think he will perform at one of these two extremes.

We have no idea what Stidham is.

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On 1/22/2020 at 10:19 PM, Tool said:

I remember thinking at the time they could’ve gotten a bit more. Think they wanted to trade out of conference and Belichek just kinda said eff it.

That's my recollection, as well. I'm pretty sure the consensus at the time was that the Pats didn't get as much in return as most thought they could.

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1 hour ago, SeniorVBDStudent said:

We know that Cassell, Hoyer and Brissett have limited ceilings (Brissett being better than the other two, but somewhere short of franchise).

We don't know yet what Jimmy is.  If we see 175/1/3 or 375/3/0 in the superbowl that will go part way in figuring out that riddle.  I think he will perform at one of these two extremes.

We have no idea what Stidham is.

Where did this idea come from that Brissett is even a decent QB? He sucks. He's under 60% completions, and well under 7 YPA. That is almost hard to do in this era. The only good things I can say about him, is that he is pretty good at avoiding INT's, and has ok mobility. He's a poor man's Tyrod Taylor. Getting Philip Dorsett for him was a pretty even deal.

Stidham was a pretty sizable reach when he was drafted, and was really rough in his limited work. The book is obviously still being written on him, but its also very possible, if not probable, that he never sees the field again. He had one of the only times I've ever seen a backup QB come in to close out the game, and perform so badly, that they brought the starter back in.

I feel very comfortable saying Garoppolo with never be as good as Brady was in 2016-2018. I just don't think he's that talented. Obviously, though he doesn't have to, as the 49ers aren't set up for the QB to need to have huge games. I think Garoppolo is more in line with your Jared Goff/Kirk Cousins types, who can certainly lead a talented offense, but need to be raised up by teammates/playcalling as opposed to raising them up himself. it certainly helps him that Kyle Shanahan is probably the best playcaller in the NFL right now. 

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Quote

Owner Robert Kraft told TMZ Sports the Patriots "plan" to bring back Tom Brady.

ESPN's Adam Schefter adds the Patriots expect to know if Brady's returning before the legal tampering period in mid-March. That doesn't come as a surprise, though there's still some uncertainty on where Brady will be playing in 2020. It's not impossible the Patriots move on from a declining Brady, but Kraft's comments suggest he'll remain in New England for at least one more season.

SOURCE: TMZ Sports

Jan 25, 2020, 11:20 AM ET

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Faust said:

Owner Robert Kraft told TMZ Sports the Patriots "plan" to bring back Tom Brady.

ESPN's Adam Schefter adds the Patriots expect to know if Brady's returning before the legal tampering period in mid-March. That doesn't come as a surprise, though there's still some uncertainty on where Brady will be playing in 2020. It's not impossible the Patriots move on from a declining Brady, but Kraft's comments suggest he'll remain in New England for at least one more season.

SOURCE: TMZ Sports

Jan 25, 2020, 11:20 AM ET

 

Hang on to the water wagon older timer.

-Max Mercy, syndicated sportswriter. 

Edited by JohnnyU

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19 hours ago, travdogg said:

Where did this idea come from that Brissett is even a decent QB? He sucks. He's under 60% completions, and well under 7 YPA. That is almost hard to do in this era. The only good things I can say about him, is that he is pretty good at avoiding INT's, and has ok mobility. He's a poor man's Tyrod Taylor. Getting Philip Dorsett for him was a pretty even deal.

Stidham was a pretty sizable reach when he was drafted, and was really rough in his limited work. The book is obviously still being written on him, but its also very possible, if not probable, that he never sees the field again. He had one of the only times I've ever seen a backup QB come in to close out the game, and perform so badly, that they brought the starter back in.

I feel very comfortable saying Garoppolo with never be as good as Brady was in 2016-2018. I just don't think he's that talented. Obviously, though he doesn't have to, as the 49ers aren't set up for the QB to need to have huge games. I think Garoppolo is more in line with your Jared Goff/Kirk Cousins types, who can certainly lead a talented offense, but need to be raised up by teammates/playcalling as opposed to raising them up himself. it certainly helps him that Kyle Shanahan is probably the best playcaller in the NFL right now. 

My only claim about Brissett is that he's better than Cassell and Hoyer.  I'd say I'd take him over Tyrod Taylor as well.

Stidham dealt with a lot of adversity in college.  I think that is the secret sauce BB was looking for....which may be a fool's errand (trying to "reproduce" getting a Brady).

I think the book on Jimmy G is yet to be written, but this superbowl's results will be interesting foreshadowing.

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On 1/22/2020 at 10:33 PM, Anarchy99 said:

They were up against the trade deadline in the middle of the season. Whoever the trade partner was going to be would have taken on Jimmy G for half a season with no guarantee he would re-sign there. So they would have to either franchise him or give him a boatload of money without a ton of experience. Not sure they could have gotten much more than they did. Maybe if they shopped him around they might have gotten a late round pick tossed  in. Way too many question marks involved to get a ton back for Garoppolo. He looked ok against the Cardinals in his first start for NE and looked great in the first half against the Dolphins the following week but got hurt. Not a ton to go on for evaluating his future success. 

As I mentioned earlier, if he got shipped off to a team like the Bengals, Redskins, etc., there wouldn’t be the revisionist history narrative that NE mucked things up. Similarly, Stidham has received high marks so far. The Patriots supplied SF and IND with viable NFL starters. One would think they may have something to work with in Stidham.

The real issue was Brady stayed playing at a high level for longer than most QBs and that messed up the timing in having Jimmy G stick with the team as an heir apparent. 

There was a lot of interest in Garapalolo at the time. I recall the Browns having strong interest. That they could’ve gotten more i’m not sure is even a question. 

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1 minute ago, Tool said:

There was a lot of interest in Garapalolo at the time. I recall the Browns having strong interest. That they could’ve gotten more i’m not sure is even a question. 

Why did NE settle for a 2nd rd pick?  Was it because Kraft and Brady wanted him gone, and sooner the better?

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14 minutes ago, Tool said:

There was a lot of interest in Garapalolo at the time. I recall the Browns having strong interest. That they could’ve gotten more i’m not sure is even a question. 

Who knows if the speculation by reporters was even true. But IIRC, that was before the season and not a couple of days before the trade deadline. If you go back and look at what back up QBs with hardly any experience have gone for, they have not gone for first round picks.

The reality was MAYBE they could have gotten a second rounder from CLE, which at the time the trade went down was not much different than the SF pick. The Niners finished the season strong and that caused the pick to slide some, but as I said multiple times, a massive haul for Jimmy G. Would have gone against what the market was for backups. Especially for ones that were unsigned for the following year. 

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49 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Why did NE settle for a 2nd rd pick?  Was it because Kraft and Brady wanted him gone, and sooner the better?

Belichek has relationship with Shanahan and also wanted to send Garapolo to good situation and maybe took a little less to send him out of conference 

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13 minutes ago, Tool said:

Belichek has relationship with Shanahan and also wanted to send Garapolo to good situation and maybe took a little less to send him out of conference 

Belichick didn't want to move him ;)

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3 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Belichick didn't want to move him ;)

True. And perhaps he wanted to be proven right by trading him to a team where he’d succeed.

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5 minutes ago, Tool said:

True. And perhaps he wanted to be proven right by trading him to a team where he’d succeed.

Was Kraft and especially Brady, so insecure they had to get rid of JG.

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23 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Was Kraft and especially Brady, so insecure they had to get rid of JG.

They couldn’t keep both of them. 

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10 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

They couldn’t keep both of them. 

Was JG a restricted FA when they traded him?  Are you saying they couldn't have kept him another year or two?  Would he have been a restricted FA or UFA the next year?

Edited by JohnnyU

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13 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Was JG a restricted FA when they traded him?  Are you saying they couldn't have kept him another year or two?  Would he have been a restricted FA or UFA the next year?

He was set to becoming me an UFA. He was said to have been offered a high dollar back up QB deal but said no way. The only way to keep him would have been to franchise him. And they weren’t carrying $50 million worth of quarterbacks. 

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16 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

He was set to becoming me an UFA. He was said to have been offered a high dollar back up QB deal but said no way. The only way to keep him would have been to franchise him. And they weren’t carrying $50 million worth of quarterbacks. 

This.  

The more interesting question is why SF?  Moving him out of conference, moving him to a place where he could succeed, moving him to Shanahan, moving him to Lynch have all been mentioned as explanations for SF over CLE....we'll probably never know the exact reasons but I suspect "all of the above"...

 

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On 1/22/2020 at 6:50 PM, Anarchy99 said:

Anyone that thinks Jimmy G was some savant, generational, can’t miss QB is revising history. NE traded him while they still could before he became a free agent. 

That's, as always, an overstatement and straw man. There were those of us saying that they didn't get enough for Jimmy G or didn't do enough to keep him and ease Brady out the door. IIRC, they had the franchise tag for him, though there were rumors he wanted none of that (who does?). Anyway, NE had to essentially make a choice and made the wrong one. There were definitely people arguing for Garoppolo and that's why the story about Belichick/Kraft came out, which some people (hmm...) pooh-poohed as not true when in fact it likely was, Belichick being smart enough to know when to move on.

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4 minutes ago, rockaction said:

That's, as always, an overstatement and straw man. There were those of us saying that they didn't get enough for Jimmy G or didn't do enough to keep him and ease Brady out the door. IIRC, they had the franchise tag for him, though there were rumors he wanted none of that (who does?). Anyway, NE had to essentially make a choice and made the wrong one. There were definitely people arguing for Garoppolo and that's why the story about Belichick/Kraft came out, which some people (hmm...) pooh-poohed as not true when in fact it likely was, Belichick being smart enough to know when to move on.

I mentioned several times that wanting more for Jimmy G. was mostly a pipe dream. In other threads, I posted what other back up QBs went for over the past few decades. Maybe they could have gotten the Browns second round pick and a 5th thrown in. Sure, that may have been “more” but not that much more. The time to trade him was in the prior offseason. Then they MAY have gotten a first . . . and that would have set a new bar for acquisition of a back up, especially one set to become a free agent.

The team acquiring Jimmy G was getting him for half a season with no guarantee he would resign, so to keep him he may have had to have been tagged. NE could have tagged him to keep him but that would have amounted to a salary cap hit to keep two QB’s in the $50+ million range. And come on, NE wasn’t trading Brady mid season. 

For those saying NE kept the wrong guy, after trading Garoppolo they went to back to back SB’s. No one knows what would have happened if JG was the QB in those seasons. 

It’s no secret that in terms of succession planning teams would rather have a 25 year old QB than a 40 year old. But there is a strong case to be made that NE would not have gone to those SB’s without Brady. 

We won’t know for years the outcome to their decision. Garoppolo could bust out and NE could win again with Brady (although unlikely) or another QB (more likely). Jimmy could become the next big thing and NE could miss the playoffs for a decade. Too soon to tell. 

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Fair points, Anarchy99. I was just talking about the legitimacy of those who saw the flip side a long time ago.

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3 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

It’s no secret that in terms of succession planning teams would rather have a 25 year old QB than a 40 year old. But there is a strong case to be made that NE would not have gone to those SB’s without Brady. 

Also, a 6th superbowl win (and 8th and 9th appearance) for Brady was more  valuable to the Patriots organization than a first appearance and win would have been for Jimmy g.  The chance to have the only guy to win seven is worth virtually whatever it costs to keep him. 

Having a good young player is nice but it isn't the goal.  The Colts traded away a superbowl window with an injured manning because they had a chance to draft luck. They never won a title with luck.  

The Broncos had a young first round pick in Tim Tebow who had just brought them to a playoff win the year before.  They dumped him instantly to bring in manning.  

I don't there's any question about the decision except among people that don't like Brady or the Patriots to begin with. 

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14 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

Also, a 6th superbowl win (and 8th and 9th appearance) for Brady was more  valuable to the Patriots organization than a first appearance and win would have been for Jimmy g.  The chance to have the only guy to win seven is worth virtually whatever it costs to keep him. 

Having a good young player is nice but it isn't the goal.  The Colts traded away a superbowl window with an injured manning because they had a chance to draft luck. They never won a title with luck.  

The Broncos had a young first round pick in Tim Tebow who had just brought them to a playoff win the year before.  They dumped him instantly to bring in manning.  

I don't there's any question about the decision except among people that don't like Brady or the Patriots to begin with. 

I get that SO MANY PEOPLE are sick of NE that they are lining up to find fault with the things they have done. First it's the cheating. Then it's playing in the AFC Least. Then it's just having TB12. People forget how hard it is to be competitive in ONE SEASON let alone MANY SEASONS.

Someday people will (hopefully) look back and really be awestruck at what they have accomplished. But living it in real time, people just accepted what they have done as being normal (or "tainted"). The Patriots in the last decade AVERAGED 12.5 wins a year and had 12 wins in 9 of the 10 seasons. Only one team (Denver) had 4 seasons of 12 wins.

Compare that to the rest of the league and 11 teams did not hit 12 wins in a season over the past 10 years (including the Colts) and 9 more only accomplished it once. That's 62.5% of the league with 0 or 1 season with 12 wins. So yeah, I chuckle when I hear that NE is now "done." They are so "done" that they have the 4th best odds of winning the SB next year . . . and that factors in a TON of uncertainty about what the team will look like.

All that being said, I am not so sure that keeping Brady at all costs is the way to go. NE needs to keep key pieces and upgrade on offense. Not sure the math is in their favor to keep Brady, the other free agents, and upgrade the offense. Brady is worth keeping around if they can accomplish the other two items . . . but that would require Tom to stick around for LESS than he's been making.

On a side note, I have seen places / people projecting the market for Brady at 3 years for $80-90 million all guaranteed. I don't see it that way, but that's what has been reported by some folks. Maybe speculated might be a better word than reported. I also heard on local radio that 6-8 teams are interested in Brady . . . but that doesn't tell us much. We don't know for how much, how long, and if those teams are destinations Brady would have any interest in playing in. I doubt he would go somewhere in a rebuild or to be brought in to mentor a young guy. If that range is really an accurate number, I just don't see NE going there and I don't believe they really should. Remember, if we get to 3/18 and Brady hasn't resigned with the Pats, then they have to add another $13.5 million in a cap hit on top of whatever contract they would have to give him. Brady at $30 million AND a $13.5 million additional cap hit? That would be insanity. Maybe 3 years for a total of $50M with the first two seasons guaranteed . . . but much more than that is asking for trouble. They would not do more than a season at a time the past two seasons, so I am not sure they would do that now.

And getting back to the Patriots being "done" or Belichick leaving, I GUARANTEE that BB is chomping at the bit to show everyone that he can win without Tom. He will work 24 hours a day (instead of the 23 and a half he works now) to prove it. It will be his biggest challenge yet when that day comes, and IMO there is NO WAY he will pass that up to go manage the Giants, the Browns, or some other team.

As I mentioned in another thread, this is the first time in a decade that the Patriots have an extra month to prepare for next season. That means more scouting of college kids, more crunching of numbers, more devoted to exploring trades and free agency, more rest for the players, etc. I've said it before. With or without Brady, BB didn't forget how to coach and didn't forget how to manage the salary cap. We'll have to wait and see what happens, but I think the Patriots are far from "done." The last time they lost in the first round, the following year they went to the SB. The last time the offense had vanilla receivers, they went out and brought in Moss, Welker, Stallworth, and Gaffney. But we''' have to wait and see . . .

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2 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

 First it's the cheating. 

Someday people will (hopefully) look back and really be awestruck at what they have accomplished. But living it in real time, people just accepted what they have done as being normal (or "tainted"). 

here is the thing Yuds, they cheated and got caught more than once, they are not a class organization, from the owner (massage parlor handys) on down. 

BB unless he wins acts like a complete baby. 

why are you surprised that people celebrate them losing? 

Was it a great amazing run? Yep.....did they cheat like hell? Yep...

They got lucky as hell many times too, from the tuck rule, to 28-3 to Seattle not just giving it to Marshawn, we could go on and on, sure they had some bad luck too, I mean Eli twice? LMFAO. and running into an uber hot Nick Foles.

 

 

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55 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

here is the thing Yuds, they cheated and got caught more than once, they are not a class organization, from the owner (massage parlor handys) on down. 

BB unless he wins acts like a complete baby. 

why are you surprised that people celebrate them losing? 

Was it a great amazing run? Yep.....did they cheat like hell? Yep...

They got lucky as hell many times too, from the tuck rule, to 28-3 to Seattle not just giving it to Marshawn, we could go on and on, sure they had some bad luck too, I mean Eli twice? LMFAO. and running into an uber hot Nick Foles.

 

 

Don't forget the being up 21-3 at halftime in the AFC Championship against the Colts, only to lose to a great Peyton Manning comeback. 

Edited by JohnnyU

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15 hours ago, JohnnyU said:

Don't forget the being up 21-3 at halftime in the AFC Championship against the Colts, only to lose to a great Peyton Manning comeback. 

 

15 hours ago, JohnnyU said:

Don't forget the being up 21-3 at halftime in the AFC Championship against the Colts, only to lose to a great Peyton Manning comeback. 

who could forget the genius going for it at his own 30 because he knew he couldn't stop peyton that day

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29 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

who could forget the genius going for it at his own 30 because he knew he couldn't stop peyton that day

Not sure if you're asking seriously but it's actually pretty easy to forget an afc championship game here or there when your team goes to them almost every year.  

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1 hour ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

who could forget the genius going for it at his own 30 because he knew he couldn't stop peyton that day

That was a regular season game, not the AFCCG. But since you brought it up, that play involved one of the dumbest rules in the game. Faulk caught the ball past the line to gain and had possession of the ball. But when he got hit, he juggled the ball. By rule, the ball was marked where he reacquired possession of the ball, which was just short. Essentially, that is the one instance where they don’t count forward progress, and it cost NE the game. Playing the odds, that had a higher probability of winning than punting did. But coaches usually coach to keep their jobs instead of winning more games. 

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