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Faust

Hernandez convicted of first-degree murder; found deceased in his cell.

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So you law professionals help me out with this.

If Hernandez' cousin doesn't want to testify against Aaron, then when they make you hold one hand up and one on the bible and ask you if you swear to tell the truth, what happens if you say no?

I believe a subpeona compels you to testify and that it's contempt of court to refuse.

Not sure about that though.

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So you law professionals help me out with this.

If Hernandez' cousin doesn't want to testify against Aaron, then when they make you hold one hand up and one on the bible and ask you if you swear to tell the truth, what happens if you say no?

If you refuse to swear to tell the truth, you cannot give a testimony. This is contempt of court.

I think you can also plead the 5th amendment if the witness believes their testimony will incriminate themselves.

I'm not an expert though or even anything in the realm of knowledgeable there are probably a lot of caveats to this.

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Not a lawyer. This seemed to cover the topic somewhat though:

http://campus.udayton.edu/~grandjur/faq/faq9.htm

How does a grand jury get evidence?


Clerk Room Grand juries can use the court's power to subpoena evidence. A court can issue a document known as a subpoena (a word which translates, essentially, as "subject to sanction") which commands someone to do something. The subpoenas are actually issued by the court clerk's office.

The prosecutor will go to the court clerk's office and obtain blank subpoenas. The prosecutor then fills them in, putting in the name of the person or corporation that is being subpoenaed, and telling them what they have to do (testify or produce documents) and when they have to do it. The prosecutor then has someone--often a police officer or federal marshal--serve the subpoena on the person or corporation.

There are two kinds of subpoenas: A grand jury uses a subpoena ad testificandum to bring people to testify before it; it uses a subpoena duces tecum to have evidence (documents, tape recordings, photographs, test results, guns, etc.) brought to it. Someone who receives a subpoena from a grand jury has three choices: comply with the subpoena; convince a court that he or she does not have to comply with it; or refuse to comply and be held in contempt.



Prosecutor and Witness You comply with a grand jury subpoena by doing what it tells you to do. If it says you are to show up before the grand jury at a given time on a specified date and testify, you do that; if it says you are to show up at that date and time and produce documents or other evidence for the grand jury to review, you do that. This police officer, for example, is testifying before a grand jury:



If you think you shouldn't have to comply because, for example, you're a lawyer and the subpoena is asking you to testify about secrets your client confided in you, then you have to file a motion to quash (not squash) the subpoena. Quashing the subpoena means the court declares it null and void, so you don't have to comply with it. A court would, for example, quash a subpoena if you could show that making you comply with it would violate your constitutional rights under the First Amendment.

But to persuade a court to quash a subpoena, you have to convince the court that, if you're claiming a privilege, the privilege actually applies to what the grand jury wants from you, so that there's no way you can do what it asks without violating the privilege. If you can answer some questions without getting into information that is covered by the privilege, the court will probably modify the subpoena, ordering you to answer about non-privilege information but also ordering that you not be asked about privileged information. (Of course, if you've answered any questions before the grand jury you've probably waived the privilege, and given up that objection, but that's another whole issue.)

Aside from privilege, you can ask a court to quash or modify a subpoena because what it asks you to do is "unreasonable or oppressive." This request is usually made as to subpoenas that order someone to produce lots of records to a grand jury. If the court agrees with you and modifies the subpoena, you will have to do what the modified subpoena tells you to do. If, for example, a subpoena ordered you to produce 100,000 pages of documents in 2 days, you could probably convince a court this request was unreasonable and persuade the court to modify it, so that you had, say, a month to comply.

If you simply refuse to do what the subpoena orders you to do, the prosecutor, acting on behalf of the grand jury, will ask the court to hold you in CIVIL contempt. Unless you have a very good reason for not complying, the court will do so.

Prisoners This happened to Susan McDougal: She was subpoenaed to testify before a Whitewater grand jury, and refused to testify. She was held in civil contempt. Civil contempt is not a crime (unlike CRIMINAL contempt, which is discussed above, in connection with grand jury secrecy). It is, instead, a way the court coerces you into doing what the grand jury wants you to do. Once you're held in civil contempt, you will be locked up until you agree to comply with the subpoena or until the grand jury's term ends, whichever comes first. Susan McDougal was locked up for approximately eighteen months, which is when the grand jury's term ended. Once the grand jury has been dissolved, the subpoena is no longer valid and you can't be held in contempt. Of course, a prosecutor can re-subpoena somebody like Susan McDougal to testify before a new grand jury. If she refuses, she can be held in civil contempt and locked up until that grand jury's term ends, which could be another year and a half or even two.

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Knew this thread was going to turn into this :pokey::pokey: eventually. Makes the site look bad...Can we get back to football???

Gave out this site as reference to a couple of guys whom have never been here...and this garbage is what they see???

Edited by citsalp

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Report: Authorities think Hernandez fiancee hindered investigation

By Josh Katzowitz | NFL Writer

While many others who were close to former Patriots star tight end Aaron Hernandez are under investigation or are being held in contempt of court for not testifying before the grand jury, there hasn't been much written about Hernandez's fiancée.

But in court documents released Friday and reported by the Hartford Courant, a storage unit rented in the name of Shayanna Jenkins, who's engaged to Hernandez, has been investigated because they reportedly believe she made "overt attempts to hide evidence … and to hinder and mislead" the investigation of the Odin Lloyd murder.

Also in the new documents, investigators believe Jenkins might know what happened to the gun used in the shooting. At this point, that weapon has not been recovered, and many outside observers believe that's a key piece of missing evidence that would help Hernandez's defense attorneys.

More from the newspaper:

According to the records, June 18 footage from the home shows Shayanna Jenkins leaving the basement of the [Hernandez] house around 1:15 p.m., carrying a trash bag, which authorities say contains a heavy "rigid object," resembling a lock box or safe. She placed the trash bag in the trunk of a red Nissan Sentra. Surveillance footage showed her returning 35 minutes later and opening the trunk of the car, which no longer held the trash bag and "rigid object," the records show.

Carlos Ortiz, one of the suspects charged in connection with the case, has told police that shortly after the shooting, Hernandez stashed two guns in a box in the basement.

The footage referred to in the documents shows Shayanna driving the Nissan toward Landry Avenue, where police the next day found a .22-caliber handgun. The gun, authorities said, looked like it may have been "recently discarded."

The documents go on to suggest that Shaneah Jenkins, the sister of Shayanna, told investigators that Hernandez called his fiancée the day after Lloyd was discovered and said he wanted weapons out of his house.

Investigators searched Shayanna Jenkins' storage unit July 26, but they did not seize anything from it.

Edited by Faust

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Knew this thread was going to turn into this :pokey::pokey: eventually. Makes the site look bad...Can we get back to football???

Gave out this site as reference to a couple of guys whom have never been here...and this garbage is what they see???

It is a place to waste time. Nothing more.

Glad someone else realizes it, all FBG cares about are web hits and page views.

All we care about is talking and arguing football. I love how everyone wants to be cordial on a website that is about football. If that happened all we would have is boring threads of people agreeing or disagreeing nicely.

Edited by Phenix

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Knew this thread was going to turn into this :pokey::pokey: eventually. Makes the site look bad...Can we get back to football???

Gave out this site as reference to a couple of guys whom have never been here...and this garbage is what they see???

It is a place to waste time. Nothing more.

Glad someone else realizes it, all FBG cares about are web hits and page views.

All we care about is talking and arguing football. I love how everyone wants to be cordial on a website that is about football. If that happened all we would have is boring threads of people agreeing or disagreeing nicely.

Is Hernandez on a NFL roster, or is he in jail? Last I looked @ all my teams, never had a player in jail score me any points. You can find any Hernandez news on Yahoo, Google, etc...Stop posting this crap...my thoughts anyway...love the site,and I spend a lot of time here, but a 65 page thread about a guy who's in jail, with Attorney wannabe's arguing his case here does not belong in the Shark Pool.

IMHO

Edited by citsalp

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Knew this thread was going to turn into this :pokey::pokey: eventually. Makes the site look bad...Can we get back to football???

Gave out this site as reference to a couple of guys whom have never been here...and this garbage is what they see???

It is a place to waste time. Nothing more.

Glad someone else realizes it, all FBG cares about are web hits and page views.

All we care about is talking and arguing football. I love how everyone wants to be cordial on a website that is about football. If that happened all we would have is boring threads of people agreeing or disagreeing nicely.

Is Hernandez on a NFL roster, or is he in jail? Last I looked @ all my teams, never had a player in jail score me any points. You can find any Hernandez news on Yahoo, Google, etc...Stop posting this crap...my thoughts anyway...love the site,and I spend a lot of time here, but a 65 page thread about a guy who's in jail, with Attorney wannabe's arguing his case here does not belong in the Shark Pool.

IMHO

You really don't have to click on the thread.

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Knew this thread was going to turn into this :pokey::pokey: eventually. Makes the site look bad...Can we get back to football???

Gave out this site as reference to a couple of guys whom have never been here...and this garbage is what they see???

It is a place to waste time. Nothing more.

Glad someone else realizes it, all FBG cares about are web hits and page views.

All we care about is talking and arguing football. I love how everyone wants to be cordial on a website that is about football. If that happened all we would have is boring threads of people agreeing or disagreeing nicely.

Is Hernandez on a NFL roster, or is he in jail? Last I looked @ all my teams, never had a player in jail score me any points. You can find any Hernandez news on Yahoo, Google, etc...Stop posting this crap...my thoughts anyway...love the site,and I spend a lot of time here, but a 65 page thread about a guy who's in jail, with Attorney wannabe's arguing his case here does not belong in the Shark Pool.

IMHO

You really don't have to click on the thread.

Exactly. Plus, he was one of the best TE's in the NFL just a short time ago with a projectied high ADP in FF leagues across the land. Did you really expect a FF site to not react?

Plus, a few of us hardcore guys are in "jail house" leagues and I really need to know if he's going to be in solitary or allowed to participate in the games. He'd be the first overall pick, hands down - breaking the run by "Quick-Shank" Wally.

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Knew this thread was going to turn into this :pokey::pokey: eventually. Makes the site look bad...Can we get back to football???

Gave out this site as reference to a couple of guys whom have never been here...and this garbage is what they see???

It is a place to waste time. Nothing more.

Glad someone else realizes it, all FBG cares about are web hits and page views.

All we care about is talking and arguing football. I love how everyone wants to be cordial on a website that is about football. If that happened all we would have is boring threads of people agreeing or disagreeing nicely.

Is Hernandez on a NFL roster, or is he in jail? Last I looked @ all my teams, never had a player in jail score me any points. You can find any Hernandez news on Yahoo, Google, etc...Stop posting this crap...my thoughts anyway...love the site,and I spend a lot of time here, but a 65 page thread about a guy who's in jail, with Attorney wannabe's arguing his case here does not belong in the Shark Pool.

IMHO

You really don't have to click on the thread.

My downfall...Thought The Shark Pool was about Fantasy Football. So you are projecting Hernandez to score how many points in the next 10 years?

Edited by citsalp

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My downfall...Thought The Shark Pool was about Fantasy Football. So you are projecting Hernandez to score how many points in the next 10 years?

It's not just about fantasy football. Read the description.

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My downfall...Thought The Shark Pool was about Fantasy Football. So you are projecting Hernandez to score how many points in the next 10 years?

Once he's exonerated, I think Green Bay or Oakland pick him up for next season. Definitely a low-risk dynasty hold at this point, which I've said repeatedly in this thread.

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My downfall...Thought The Shark Pool was about Fantasy Football. So you are projecting Hernandez to score how many points in the next 10 years?

Once he's exonerated, I think Green Bay or Oakland pick him up for next season. Definitely a low-risk dynasty hold at this point, which I've said repeatedly in this thread.

Green Bay wouldn't touch this piece of #### for free.

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My downfall...Thought The Shark Pool was about Fantasy Football. So you are projecting Hernandez to score how many points in the next 10 years?

Once he's exonerated, I think Green Bay or Oakland pick him up for next season. Definitely a low-risk dynasty hold at this point, which I've said repeatedly in this thread.

:fishing:

My downfall...Thought The Shark Pool was about Fantasy Football. So you are projecting Hernandez to score how many points in the next 10 years?

Once he's exonerated, I think Green Bay or Oakland pick him up for next season. Definitely a low-risk dynasty hold at this point, which I've said repeatedly in this thread.

Green Bay wouldn't touch this piece of #### for free.

And a nibble...

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My downfall...Thought The Shark Pool was about Fantasy Football. So you are projecting Hernandez to score how many points in the next 10 years?

Once he's exonerated, I think Green Bay or Oakland pick him up for next season. Definitely a low-risk dynasty hold at this point, which I've said repeatedly in this thread.

:fishing:

My downfall...Thought The Shark Pool was about Fantasy Football. So you are projecting Hernandez to score how many points in the next 10 years?

Once he's exonerated, I think Green Bay or Oakland pick him up for next season. Definitely a low-risk dynasty hold at this point, which I've said repeatedly in this thread.

Green Bay wouldn't touch this piece of #### for free.

And a nibble...

Exonerated ?

:lmao:

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Exonerated ?

:lmao:

Why not? There's no evidence he's committed murder. The only thing they have is that he likes blue Bubbalicious gum. Other than that, there's just hearsay and conjecture. There's the uncorroborated testimony of an accomplice, which says that another accomplice told him that AH pulled the trigger. That's third-hand gossip. There's no physical evidence. No gunpowder residue on AH's body. No proof he pulled the trigger.

Right now no one really knows what happened in that industrial park except for the men who were there, and each has a self-interest to say that another one did it. It's he said/he said.

For all we know, AH drove Lloyd around to talk to him about his problem with him. The other guys in the car ganged up on AH and pressured AH into driving him to the industrial park "just to scare him". Lloyd and the guys get out of the car, and one of the other accomplices pulls a gun. AH tells him he's going too far. Maybe he tries to stop him and the gun goes off in the struggle. Maybe the accomplice kills Lloyd before AH says anything. AH panics and tries to cover up his involvement. The police get so focused on nailing the highest-profile person they have on the radar, they give the accomplice (the real murderer) a deal because he'll say AH did it. Of course he would.

I don't know that it happened that way, but I don't know that it didn't. It's a reasonable scenario, and therefore it's reasonable doubt. Present that to a jury and AH is catching passes from Aaron Rodgers in training camp this time next year.

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WOW...haven't been to this thread in weeks, but I'm absolutely amazed that there are so many still defending/believing in this guy.

Get over it...he's a thug murderer who will never play another down in the NFL.

Sheessh

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Exonerated ?

:lmao:

Why not? There's no evidence he's committed murder. The only thing they have is that he likes blue Bubbalicious gum. Other than that, there's just hearsay and conjecture. There's the uncorroborated testimony of an accomplice, which says that another accomplice told him that AH pulled the trigger. That's third-hand gossip. There's no physical evidence. No gunpowder residue on AH's body. No proof he pulled the trigger.

Right now no one really knows what happened in that industrial park except for the men who were there, and each has a self-interest to say that another one did it. It's he said/he said.

For all we know, AH drove Lloyd around to talk to him about his problem with him. The other guys in the car ganged up on AH and pressured AH into driving him to the industrial park "just to scare him". Lloyd and the guys get out of the car, and one of the other accomplices pulls a gun. AH tells him he's going too far. Maybe he tries to stop him and the gun goes off in the struggle. Maybe the accomplice kills Lloyd before AH says anything. AH panics and tries to cover up his involvement. The police get so focused on nailing the highest-profile person they have on the radar, they give the accomplice (the real murderer) a deal because he'll say AH did it. Of course he would.

I don't know that it happened that way, but I don't know that it didn't. It's a reasonable scenario, and therefore it's reasonable doubt. Present that to a jury and AH is catching passes from Aaron Rodgers in training camp this time next year.

http://www.mass.gov/courts/courtsandjudges/courts/districtcourt/jury-instructions/criminal/pdf/4200-joint-venture.pdf

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Exonerated ?

:lmao:

Why not? There's no evidence he's committed murder. The only thing they have is that he likes blue Bubbalicious gum. Other than that, there's just hearsay and conjecture. There's the uncorroborated testimony of an accomplice, which says that another accomplice told him that AH pulled the trigger. That's third-hand gossip. There's no physical evidence. No gunpowder residue on AH's body. No proof he pulled the trigger.

Right now no one really knows what happened in that industrial park except for the men who were there, and each has a self-interest to say that another one did it. It's he said/he said.

For all we know, AH drove Lloyd around to talk to him about his problem with him. The other guys in the car ganged up on AH and pressured AH into driving him to the industrial park "just to scare him". Lloyd and the guys get out of the car, and one of the other accomplices pulls a gun. AH tells him he's going too far. Maybe he tries to stop him and the gun goes off in the struggle. Maybe the accomplice kills Lloyd before AH says anything. AH panics and tries to cover up his involvement. The police get so focused on nailing the highest-profile person they have on the radar, they give the accomplice (the real murderer) a deal because he'll say AH did it. Of course he would.

I don't know that it happened that way, but I don't know that it didn't. It's a reasonable scenario, and therefore it's reasonable doubt. Present that to a jury and AH is catching passes from Aaron Rodgers in training camp this time next year.

http://www.mass.gov/courts/courtsandjudges/courts/districtcourt/jury-instructions/criminal/pdf/4200-joint-venture.pdf

Fully aware. In my scenario, he gets off as it fails both #2 and #3:

First: That the defendant was present at or near the scene of the crime;

Second: That the defendant aided, assisted or encouraged the commission of the crime, or by agreement stood by willing and available to help with the crime if it became necessary; and

Third: That the defendant did so while sharing the intent required to commit the crime

I don't see any proof that AH wanted Lloyd dead, that he intended for anyone else to commit the act, or that he encouraged it in any way. At most, he was pressured into driving around by someone else who had the requisite intent.

If he standing there screaming "No! Don't! Stop it!" and another guy pulls the trigger, boom, not guilty.

Presence alone does not establish a joint venture, even if a person knew about the intended crime in advance and took no steps to prevent it. Our law does not allow for guilt by association. There must be proof that the defendant intentionally participated in committing that particular crime, not just that he (she) was there or knew about

it.

At most, he's guilty of a joint venture to harass Lloyd. Maybe they told AH they were just going to scare him or "rough him up" to leave the girl alone. If the real killer surprises AH and pulls a gun that AH didn't know he had, and shoots Lloyd over AH's objection, then AH is fully exonerated.

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If he standing there screaming "No! Don't! Stop it!" and another guy pulls the trigger, boom, not guilty.

This is exactly how it happened. We can tell by how cooperative he's been with the police and not acting suspicious and stuff.

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If he standing there screaming "No! Don't! Stop it!" and another guy pulls the trigger, boom, not guilty.

This is exactly how it happened. We can tell by how cooperative he's been with the police and not acting suspicious and stuff.

The best thing for an innocent person to do nowadays is lawyer up and not cooperate with police. Let them go to court with their crappy case and then blow it out of the water once the defense gets its shot. It's what our legal system has sadly become. The US court system is b###s###.

Especially if the police have shown no interest in hearing the truth, rather, are only interested in nailing the biggest pelt to their wall.

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If he standing there screaming "No! Don't! Stop it!" and another guy pulls the trigger, boom, not guilty.

This is exactly how it happened. We can tell by how cooperative he's been with the police and not acting suspicious and stuff.

The best thing for an innocent person to do nowadays is lawyer up and not cooperate with police. Let them go to court with their crappy case and then blow it out of the water once the defense gets its shot. It's what our legal system has sadly become. The US court system is b###s###.

Especially if the police have shown no interest in hearing the truth, rather, are only interested in nailing the biggest pelt to their wall.

You forgot destroying your cell phone and your home security system. All things that may incriminate you actually.

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AH will be found not guilty... watch. This great evidence the cops think they have will come crashing down as soon as his attorneys start to cross examine the "star" defense wtinesses.

Edited by Angry Beavers

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If he standing there screaming "No! Don't! Stop it!" and another guy pulls the trigger, boom, not guilty.

This is exactly how it happened. We can tell by how cooperative he's been with the police and not acting suspicious and stuff.

The best thing for an innocent person to do nowadays is lawyer up and not cooperate with police. Let them go to court with their crappy case and then blow it out of the water once the defense gets its shot. It's what our legal system has sadly become. The US court system is b###s###.

Especially if the police have shown no interest in hearing the truth, rather, are only interested in nailing the biggest pelt to their wall.

You forgot destroying your cell phone and your home security system. All things that may incriminate you actually.

I said above he panicked. He was in the presence of a murder and his natural reaction was to distance himself from it. He immediately went into "how do we fix this??" mode before he was able to regain rational thinking. Doesn't make him a murderer and it doesn't make him part of a joint venture.

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I love how this is STILL in the shark pool.

Awesome. Great work, mods.

The Shark Pool is reserved for sharing NFL talk and fantasy football strategy discussion.

This is NFL talk. Topic is where it should be.

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I love how this is STILL in the shark pool.

Awesome. Great work, mods.

The Shark Pool is reserved for sharing NFL talk and fantasy football strategy discussion.

This is NFL talk. Topic is where it should be.

You haven't read this thread in the past month, apparently. This topic has zero NFL relevance now, and certainly with the direction the thread has taken, it's even worse.

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You haven't read this thread in the past month, apparently. This topic has zero NFL relevance now, and certainly with the direction the thread has taken, it's even worse.

There's truth to what you say, but eventually we will get more serious AH news in here. Better keeping this one than starting a new thread when it happens.

Edited by PlasmaDogPlasma

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Any talk of him coming back by one season or even two at this point, I think is grossly and overly optimistic.

Whole post was great. On this point, there is no chance he plays at all. Ever, let alone 2 years. Even if he gets away with murder, the perception problem is insurmountable. He is dead to the NFL.

And he'll be in jail, anyway, so all this thread is useful for now is Sarnoff fishing and rookies biting on his bait.

Edited by cobalt_27

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Time to start a league safe account/betting pool, so people can bet on AH's future. Talk is cheap. Back it up with Cash.

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I love how this is STILL in the shark pool.

This is still an NFL issue.

The thread has recently become mostly a place to fish with stinky bait, but (I hope) that's temporary: whenever there's any actual news on this subject again, this should be a decent place to discuss it.

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Any talk of him coming back by one season or even two at this point, I think is grossly and overly optimistic.

Whole post was great. On this point, there is no chance he plays at all. Ever, let alone 2 years. Even if he gets away with murder, the perception problem is insurmountable. He is dead to the NFL.

And he'll be in jail, anyway, so all this thread is useful for now is Sarnoff fishing and rookies biting on his bait.

I think the distinction some people in this thread are making is contention with the terms "never" or "ever". From a legal standpoint, that's probably not true.

I would say the practical demarcation is 30-31 years of age. With it being more likely at 30 years of age than not. If Hernandez is fully reinstated by the league by then, assuming he is cleared completely of the murder charges and serves his time for his gun offenses and NFL suspension, he might have a year or two in the tank.

"No chance" tends to infer a lifetime ban from the game. That issue runs a lot deeper and bloodier than Hernandez, that becomes an issue of labor rights and players rights to the union. The owners can push the players union far, yes, that's true, but there is only so much you can push them without cornering them into no choice but to fight to maintain the perception of their legitimacy. Without the perception of the union's legitimacy, the owners have no means of control.

Put it this way, the elders of a town hire a Sheriff. They handpick him out of many candidates. Every now and then, the Sheriff finds a malcontent to challenges the Sheriff's authority, so the Sheriff drags the malcontent on the back of horse out to the desert and beats him to a pulp. Now maybe the elders of the town aren't so happy that the Sheriff is such a mean ##### about things at times, but selecting him is an extension of their authority, and to usurp his decision making is to undermine their own selection. If they choose to belittle him and punish him too harshly in public, it lends to a bad perception of his authority, and now he is unable to carry out their wishes and their methodology of control.

The owners need the union to keep the players in line. To do that, they must recognize and empower the union to some degree. Not a ton, but enough to keep order. The union cannot keep order if the owners start a labor issue over a players right to earn in the league regarding suspensions. Again, it's not about Hernandez anymore, it's about the larger perception and labor issue in play. Too many people here talk about the league without actually considering basic league politics. It's not as simple as saying, "Screw you Hernandez, you never ever play again"

If Hernandez eats the murder beef, yes, a lifetime ban is likely and probable.

If Hernandez walks on the murder beef, but has to eat the gun charges, then no, a lifetime ban is not very likely and not very probable. Now most teams probably won't want the distraction and headache and blackball him anyway, but he will be able to apply for reinstatement, offer his appeal and have the union have no choice but to represent some of his interests.

It's tough to say in 5 years if Hernandez would be dead to the NFL if he beats the murder beef ( and he just might, anyone who is calling this a slam dunk for life case simply is as overly optimistic and those who say he will be starting for the Raiders next year) The Patriots passing offense is a very difficult one. It requires synching at, not just the technical level, but also on a creative level for all the variable options. For a very young player to perform at Hernandez's level requires a very high football IQ. He might be dumb as rocks about being a criminal mastermind, but the kid can seriously ball. Strictly as a receiver, he has very good technique, good footwork, a nice ability to use his body in space. There are many elements to Hernandez strictly as a player that are valuable even with eroded athleticism. But again, he will be for a long time without NFL training and world class medical care and nutrition. And while he's stagnant, he's also accumulating zero to no tread on his body for the duration. He will be older if he gets out but he won't have the same attrition as a comparable NFL player at his age.

1 to 2 years = A very reactionary response, with almost no regard for understanding league politics, the legal system or PR at any level.

Never ever and forever wrapped in a corn tortilla = A very reactionary response, at this point.

Let's wait and let the process unfold and then we can see if he has any semblance of an NFL career left.

He has none. How much does physical ability erode sitting in a cell for a decade? A young Aaron Hernandez had potential, but in actuality, he was starting to look a little injury prone and hadn't really put it all together. He is not walking out of prison with a little pixie dust and salvaging an NFL career. Time and a stream of younger players will have passed him by...

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Any talk of him coming back by one season or even two at this point, I think is grossly and overly optimistic.

Whole post was great. On this point, there is no chance he plays at all. Ever, let alone 2 years. Even if he gets away with murder, the perception problem is insurmountable. He is dead to the NFL.

And he'll be in jail, anyway, so all this thread is useful for now is Sarnoff fishing and rookies biting on his bait.

I think the distinction some people in this thread are making is contention with the terms "never" or "ever". From a legal standpoint, that's probably not true.

I would say the practical demarcation is 30-31 years of age. With it being more likely at 30 years of age than not. If Hernandez is fully reinstated by the league by then, assuming he is cleared completely of the murder charges and serves his time for his gun offenses and NFL suspension, he might have a year or two in the tank.

"No chance" tends to infer a lifetime ban from the game. That issue runs a lot deeper and bloodier than Hernandez, that becomes an issue of labor rights and players rights to the union. The owners can push the players union far, yes, that's true, but there is only so much you can push them without cornering them into no choice but to fight to maintain the perception of their legitimacy. Without the perception of the union's legitimacy, the owners have no means of control.

Put it this way, the elders of a town hire a Sheriff. They handpick him out of many candidates. Every now and then, the Sheriff finds a malcontent to challenges the Sheriff's authority, so the Sheriff drags the malcontent on the back of horse out to the desert and beats him to a pulp. Now maybe the elders of the town aren't so happy that the Sheriff is such a mean ##### about things at times, but selecting him is an extension of their authority, and to usurp his decision making is to undermine their own selection. If they choose to belittle him and punish him too harshly in public, it lends to a bad perception of his authority, and now he is unable to carry out their wishes and their methodology of control.

The owners need the union to keep the players in line. To do that, they must recognize and empower the union to some degree. Not a ton, but enough to keep order. The union cannot keep order if the owners start a labor issue over a players right to earn in the league regarding suspensions. Again, it's not about Hernandez anymore, it's about the larger perception and labor issue in play. Too many people here talk about the league without actually considering basic league politics. It's not as simple as saying, "Screw you Hernandez, you never ever play again"

If Hernandez eats the murder beef, yes, a lifetime ban is likely and probable.

If Hernandez walks on the murder beef, but has to eat the gun charges, then no, a lifetime ban is not very likely and not very probable. Now most teams probably won't want the distraction and headache and blackball him anyway, but he will be able to apply for reinstatement, offer his appeal and have the union have no choice but to represent some of his interests.

It's tough to say in 5 years if Hernandez would be dead to the NFL if he beats the murder beef ( and he just might, anyone who is calling this a slam dunk for life case simply is as overly optimistic and those who say he will be starting for the Raiders next year) The Patriots passing offense is a very difficult one. It requires synching at, not just the technical level, but also on a creative level for all the variable options. For a very young player to perform at Hernandez's level requires a very high football IQ. He might be dumb as rocks about being a criminal mastermind, but the kid can seriously ball. Strictly as a receiver, he has very good technique, good footwork, a nice ability to use his body in space. There are many elements to Hernandez strictly as a player that are valuable even with eroded athleticism. But again, he will be for a long time without NFL training and world class medical care and nutrition. And while he's stagnant, he's also accumulating zero to no tread on his body for the duration. He will be older if he gets out but he won't have the same attrition as a comparable NFL player at his age.

1 to 2 years = A very reactionary response, with almost no regard for understanding league politics, the legal system or PR at any level.

Never ever and forever wrapped in a corn tortilla = A very reactionary response, at this point.

Let's wait and let the process unfold and then we can see if he has any semblance of an NFL career left.

In my view, "no chance" has nothing whatsoever to do with this lifetime ban question. That won't be necessary.

Assume he beats the murder charge, the damage has been done. No team is going to sign this guy. Ever. Under any circumstances. His past exploits of thuggery have greater exposure now (and we will learn a lot more about this during his trial). And even if we imagine a best-case scenario for him, say a Michael Vick sort of trajectory, the bottom line is he doesn't play QB. His positive contributions to a team at TE is trivial compared to the absolute #### storm that would follow a team if they were to sign him.

Forget the labor deal, CBA, or any outcome from his murder trial. This guy is never strapping on the cleats in an NFL stadium ever again.

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Yeah I think its time to move this thread out of the SP. Hernandez will never play in the NFL again. Would rather have another bump Finley thread than have to scroll past this thread every day.

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another reason why unions stink. They defend mass murderres.

They're not defending him. They're on offense here, not defense. The reason to hate unions is that they think mass murderers should not have their employment contracts breached.

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another reason why unions stink. They defend mass murderres.

They're not defending him. They're on offense here, not defense. The reason to hate unions is that they think mass murderers should not have their employment contracts breached.

Did you mean Mass. when you said mass?

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another reason why unions stink. They defend mass murderres.

They're not defending him. They're on offense here, not defense. The reason to hate unions is that they think mass murderers should not have their employment contracts breached.

Alleged Mass Murderer.

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