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Hernandez convicted of first-degree murder; found deceased in his cell. (4 Viewers)

stbugs said:
Also, please define what "intent" means and how it is proved? IMHO, Hernandez having a gun at the scene seems like there is enough intent to harm based on AH having a gun at that scene. I hate to muck up the thread, but I see no issues with intent based on this link.
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It seems like there's decent evidence that Hernandez pulled the trigger.

In one of his finest moments, McCauley described the killing shot by shot for the jury, explaining that Hernandez, who was driving the car, fired the first shot while Lloyd was still in the back seat. McCauley reminded the jury that fingerprints from both Ortiz and Wallace were found on the Lloyd passenger door, indicating that they were pulling Lloyd from the car. McCauley then described each of the next five shots using the trail of shell casings and concluding with a description of the final two shots into Lloyd's chest as he lay dying on the ground.

If Hernandez pulled the trigger, intent is obvious. Pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger qualifies as intent to shoot him.

If the jury doesn't believe that there's enough evidence to conclude that Hernandez pulled the trigger, however, intent becomes trickier and more problematic. The prosecution would have to show that Hernandez intended for Lloyd to be shot -- i.e., he agreed with shooting him and was willing to help. That can be hard to prove, because how do you prove what's going on in someone's mind without an overt action such as pulling the trigger? You have to build the case through other means, showing that Hernandez orchestrated the killing, provided a gun knowing what it would be used for, or other things along those lines -- not impossible, but harder than if he pulled the trigger himself.

 
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renesauz said:
I'm absolutely baffled by anyone claiming the whole thing is circumstantial. HE WAS PROVEN TO BE AT THE SCENE.
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He was proven to be at the scene by circumstantial evidence. The whole thing is circumstantial -- but circumstantial is not a synonym for weak.

People have too low of an opinion of circumstantial. One or two pieces of it is useless, but put enough of it together with a few pieces of NOT CIRCUMSTANTIAL (like the shell casing in the rental car, the DNA, the videos), and it's more than enough IMHO.
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The shell casing, DNA, and videos are all circumstantial evidence. The only thing that wouldn't qualify as circumstantial evidence is a witness saying "I saw Hernandez shoot Lloyd." We don't have that in this case because Ortiz and Wallace didn't testify.

 
Hernandez is going to get away with murder here. As a general rule, jurors are not our peers. There's a selection bias toward stupidity. People with anything north of a 90 IQ can (and generally do) figure out a way to get out of jury duty. Selection bias toward stupid people tends to translate to people who can't think beyond simple facts. In a case that doesn't have obvious motive or a murder weapon, it will be impossible for our adorable Bristol County jurors, who I'm sure are doing their very best with their obvious intellectual limitations, to extrapolate even the most rudimentary circumstantial evidence to convict. Much like the OJ jury, it's just too much to expect critical thinking is taking place. Sad to say, but our pitiful jury system just happened to find one of the least intelligent counties to draw from for a case that requires a modicum of critical thinking that simply is unpossible for this particular group to manufacture. Congrats to AH and his legal team for hitting the lottery.

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
stbugs said:
Also, please define what "intent" means and how it is proved? IMHO, Hernandez having a gun at the scene seems like there is enough intent to harm based on AH having a gun at that scene. I hate to muck up the thread, but I see no issues with intent based on this link.
Click to expand...
It seems like there's decent evidence that Hernandez pulled the trigger.

In one of his finest moments, McCauley described the killing shot by shot for the jury, explaining that Hernandez, who was driving the car, fired the first shot while Lloyd was still in the back seat. McCauley reminded the jury that fingerprints from both Ortiz and Wallace were found on the Lloyd passenger door, indicating that they were pulling Lloyd from the car. McCauley then described each of the next five shots using the trail of shell casings and concluding with a description of the final two shots into Lloyd's chest as he lay dying on the ground.

If Hernandez pulled the trigger, intent is obvious. Pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger qualifies as intent to shoot him.

If the jury doesn't believe that there's enough evidence to conclude that Hernandez pulled the trigger, however, intent becomes trickier and more problematic. The prosecution would have to show that Hernandez intended for Lloyd to be shot -- i.e., he agreed with shooting him and was willing to help. That can be hard to prove, because how do you prove what's going on in someone's mind without an overt action such as pulling the trigger? You have to build the case through other means, showing that Hernandez orchestrated the killing, provided a gun knowing what it would be used for, or other things along those lines -- not impossible, but harder than if he pulled the trigger himself.
Click to expand...
I was surprised the prosecution pitched the story that the first shot was fired while Lloyd was still in the car. They didn't produce any evidence of that, to my knowledge. Surely jurors would have heard about it if such evidence existed.

 
davearm said:
Maurile Tremblay said:
stbugs said:
Also, please define what "intent" means and how it is proved? IMHO, Hernandez having a gun at the scene seems like there is enough intent to harm based on AH having a gun at that scene. I hate to muck up the thread, but I see no issues with intent based on this link.
Click to expand...
It seems like there's decent evidence that Hernandez pulled the trigger.

In one of his finest moments, McCauley described the killing shot by shot for the jury, explaining that Hernandez, who was driving the car, fired the first shot while Lloyd was still in the back seat. McCauley reminded the jury that fingerprints from both Ortiz and Wallace were found on the Lloyd passenger door, indicating that they were pulling Lloyd from the car. McCauley then described each of the next five shots using the trail of shell casings and concluding with a description of the final two shots into Lloyd's chest as he lay dying on the ground.

If Hernandez pulled the trigger, intent is obvious. Pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger qualifies as intent to shoot him.

If the jury doesn't believe that there's enough evidence to conclude that Hernandez pulled the trigger, however, intent becomes trickier and more problematic. The prosecution would have to show that Hernandez intended for Lloyd to be shot -- i.e., he agreed with shooting him and was willing to help. That can be hard to prove, because how do you prove what's going on in someone's mind without an overt action such as pulling the trigger? You have to build the case through other means, showing that Hernandez orchestrated the killing, provided a gun knowing what it would be used for, or other things along those lines -- not impossible, but harder than if he pulled the trigger himself.
Click to expand...
I was surprised the prosecution pitched the story that the first shot was fired while Lloyd was still in the car. They didn't produce any evidence of that, to my knowledge. Surely jurors would have heard about it if such evidence existed.
Click to expand...
Seems like there would be some gun shot residue in the car if a shot was fired within.

 
Proust Loves Cake said:
Hernandez is going to get away with murder here. As a general rule, jurors are not our peers. There's a selection bias toward stupidity. People with anything north of a 90 IQ can (and generally do) figure out a way to get out of jury duty. Selection bias toward stupid people tends to translate to people who can't think beyond simple facts. In a case that doesn't have obvious motive or a murder weapon, it will be impossible for our adorable Bristol County jurors, who I'm sure are doing their very best with their obvious intellectual limitations, to extrapolate even the most rudimentary circumstantial evidence to convict. Much like the OJ jury, it's just too much to expect critical thinking is taking place. Sad to say, but our pitiful jury system just happened to find one of the least intelligent counties to draw from for a case that requires a modicum of critical thinking that simply is unpossible for this particular group to manufacture. Congrats to AH and his legal team for hitting the lottery.
Click to expand...
Without making a broad comment on this (I was disgusted with the OJ verdict, and never understood changing the venue from Santa Monica, where the murders took place), the jurors may be able to sell the story to the media, a motivation mechanism which doesn't necessarily connote a lack of critical faculties.

I'm more hopeful of a guilty verdict. I think the gun images are some of the potentially more incriminating evidence and the ipad defense was a transparent act of desperation (as was the zombie PCP assassin narrative). Again, the fiance's mystery box/dumpster amnesia testimony by itself might not be that important, but together with the other known facts, fits the pattern of conspiracy, deception, hiding/destroying evidence, obstructing an investigation and aiding and abetting a murderer. Her story completely defies common sense and reason, and she came off as a bald faced liar, maybe that can only hurt AH, if it is considered by the jury at all (not that I think it is a tipping point piece of evidence, regardless, it just contributes to the mosaic of guilt, imo).

 
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Maurile Tremblay said:
renesauz said:
I'm absolutely baffled by anyone claiming the whole thing is circumstantial. HE WAS PROVEN TO BE AT THE SCENE.
Click to expand...
He was proven to be at the scene by circumstantial evidence. The whole thing is circumstantial -- but circumstantial is not a synonym for weak.

People have too low of an opinion of circumstantial. One or two pieces of it is useless, but put enough of it together with a few pieces of NOT CIRCUMSTANTIAL (like the shell casing in the rental car, the DNA, the videos), and it's more than enough IMHO.
Click to expand...
The shell casing, DNA, and videos are all circumstantial evidence. The only thing that wouldn't qualify as circumstantial evidence is a witness saying "I saw Hernandez shoot Lloyd." We don't have that in this case because Ortiz and Wallace didn't testify.
Click to expand...
MT, what is your guess as to what the verdict will be? Let's say you were offered $10k to guess what the jury would come back with. What would you say?
 
I'd guess guilty, but my main method of following the trial has been reading this thread. I didn't watch any of it on TV or anything, and I haven't read a very thorough summary of the evidence that was put on.

 
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PinkydaPimp said:
How long can the jury take to deliberate?
Click to expand...
Your question made me wonder, if there is a mistrial, since he is locked up anyways pending the double murder trial, could the DA's office keep doing this over and over? Though it could get expensive, as long as there was no innocent verdict, would they keep trying the case repeatedly, and would that be "legal" to keep him in jail indefinitely? What is the record for number of mistrials and retrials, in US legal history?

When I googled MOST MISTRIALS US HISTORY RECORD, it directed to the below case.

Curtis Flowers (alleged quadruple homicide)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_Flowers

This sounds like a worse case scenario, and may be the most times a capital murder case has been tried in US history. SIX TIMES (all but one in which the death penalty was pursued by the prosecution, the fourth, and first mistrial). Two mistrials, three convictions that were overturned on appeal by the Mississippi Supreme Court, and a latest fourth conviction, for the death penalty, which I think is again awaiting an appeal ruling by the same Supreme Court. Maybe this will be like that original Twilight Zone episode with Dennis Weaver, in which a dream or vision tells a man on death row the world and its inhabitants will cease to exist if he is executed (Shadow Play*).

* A remake

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4vD6_sOhuc

 
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I read a Yahoo article yesterday, and it noted a Boston (or maybe MA?) murder trial jury deliberation took on average six days, and that AFTER today, if would be five full days - Friday was a partial day. So even after tomorrow, that is right on the button as far as typical ETA. Plus this wasn't a typical trial, it took a long time and had a lot of evidence (yes, circumstantial, but short of an AH selfie with the body in the background, captioned, "just killed this dude, LOL", that is probably typical), the defendent had an expensive, high powered legal team, so I wouldn't be surprised if it takes 50% longer, give or take. If it extends past this week, into next, that may be a red flag or indication of a potential hung jury/mistrial.

 
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Bob Magaw said:
I read a Yahoo article yesterday, and it noted a Boston (or maybe MA?) murder trial jury deliberation took on average six days, and that AFTER today, if would be five full days - Friday was a partial day. So even after tomorrow, that is right on the button as far as typical ETA. Plus this wasn't a typical trial, it took a long time and had a lot of evidence (yes, circumstantial, but short of an AH selfie with the body in the background, captioned, "just killed this dude, LOL", that is probably typical), the defendent had an expensive, high powered legal team, so I wouldn't be surprised if it takes 50% longer, give or take. If it extends past this week, into next, that may be a red flag or indication of a potential hung jury/mistrial.
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If there is a mistrial does this one get a do-over first or do they have the trial in Suffolk county and then this retrial would follow that one?

 
Warsteinner said:
Bob Magaw said:
I read a Yahoo article yesterday, and it noted a Boston (or maybe MA?) murder trial jury deliberation took on average six days, and that AFTER today, if would be five full days - Friday was a partial day. So even after tomorrow, that is right on the button as far as typical ETA. Plus this wasn't a typical trial, it took a long time and had a lot of evidence (yes, circumstantial, but short of an AH selfie with the body in the background, captioned, "just killed this dude, LOL", that is probably typical), the defendent had an expensive, high powered legal team, so I wouldn't be surprised if it takes 50% longer, give or take. If it extends past this week, into next, that may be a red flag or indication of a potential hung jury/mistrial.
Click to expand...
If there is a mistrial does this one get a do-over first or do they have the trial in Suffolk county and then this retrial would follow that one?
Click to expand...
If there's a mistrial it is up to the prosecutor to decide if they want to try the case again. As for scheduling - that is an open question at this point I think.

-QG

 
GUILTY on all charges: 1st degree murder, possession of ammo, possession of Glock

Massachusetts does not have the death penalty. Aaron Hernandez will receive life in prison without possibility of parole.

 
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While I truly believed he was guilty and committed this crime there was a part of me that really didn't have faith the jury would actually come down and get it done. Good job American public, you got this one right...

 
Walking Boot said:
No way the verdict survives appeal. This whole trial was just the first step. Get 12 peasants to render whatever verdict, then get the appeals court to take a rational look at the case and toss it.

AH a steal today in dynasty. Hold if you have him, or get him cheap. You'll never get a lower price for him than today.
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Here fishy fishy

 
How amazingly sobering. People in this world that have it ALL...have it ALL...and they can't simply be respectful to other life.

So this guy goes from a lifestyle that millions envy to walking out of his mansion in sweats and handcuffs, to breathing every breath of his long life behind bars.

And the Mass. tax payers get to pay for that for his next 50-70 years.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
He will still be tried in the other case. He won't win on appeal and he's going away for the rest of his life. End of the Aaron Hernandez Story.
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With this in mind he'd be smart to just admit guilt in the 2nd case and leave whatever money/assets left to his child rather than spend it on another defense.

 
Shutout said:
How amazingly sobering. People in this world that have it ALL...have it ALL...and they can't simply be respectful to other life.

So this guy goes from a lifestyle that millions envy to walking out of his mansion in sweats and handcuffs, to breathing every breath of his long life behind bars.

And the Mass. tax payers get to pay for that for his next 50-70 years.
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He should have his bank account emptied to pay for his own incarceration. Of course, Lloyd's family should be paid for wrongful death first, but after that it should all go to the state.

 
IMO this was over as soon as the defense admitted AH was at the scene. Any narrative that he was there, but not involved/had no intent was completely implausible.

 
Had the world by the ###, catching passes from Tom Brady to the tune of $40 million, and couldn't separate himself from the thug life. To bad they don't have the death penalty, cause this guy would qualify on stupidity alone.

 
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