Cecil Lammey

2013 Denver Broncos Training Camp reports

170 posts in this topic

Yeha I didn't realize he fell off to the sub-180 range late last year, but would certainly explain the struggles in running between the tackles and pass pro. I'm still skeptical, honestly...

If he's 200 lbs and can stay at 200, perhaps there's something here. But he struggled to keep the weight on before, so why should we believe he'll keep it on this time?

And you've got a rookie bruiser who's also excelling according to reports, and already getting first team reps.

Just seems like a confusing situation to me. I *want* to believe in the Hillman hype as I can acquire him relatively cheaply in my dynasty, but I've got zero shot at Ball.

I understand why you're hesitant about him keeping the weight on. Clinton Portis fell to 185 during his rookie year (a 1,500 season) then learned how to eat, keep his calories up, and keep the weight on during the year. It's something Ronnie has talked about earlier this year. This is RBBC and the 'starter' is more of a ceremonial term.

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I don't want to steal Lammey's thunder, but made the trek to camp today and here are a few fantasy-relevant tidbits. No pads today.

Hillman got 1st crack with the 1s and Ball rotated with him

From what I could tell Moreno played strictly with the 2s and got some special teams work. He looks substantially bigger, especially his legs. He made a nice adjustment on a throw from Osweiler for a decent gain.

Tamme, Dreessen and Julius Thomas rotated with the 1s at TE. Thomas is massive and he looked pretty polished running routes against the 1st team d. He could be in for a breakout or semibreakout season at TE.

Welker and Manning seem to have a very good chemistry already.

Bubba Caldwell had a huge gain down the sideline on a well-thrown ball from Osewiler. I don't think he makes much of a fantasy impact this year, and long-term I think King surpasses Caldwell.

Osweiler has a really good arm and looked comfortable running the 2nd team O. He has the physical talent to play QB down the road.

Is this referring to Hillman or Moreno?

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I don't want to steal Lammey's thunder, but made the trek to camp today and here are a few fantasy-relevant tidbits. No pads today.

Hillman got 1st crack with the 1s and Ball rotated with him

From what I could tell Moreno played strictly with the 2s and got some special teams work. He looks substantially bigger, especially his legs. He made a nice adjustment on a throw from Osweiler for a decent gain.

Tamme, Dreessen and Julius Thomas rotated with the 1s at TE. Thomas is massive and he looked pretty polished running routes against the 1st team d. He could be in for a breakout or semibreakout season at TE.

Welker and Manning seem to have a very good chemistry already.

Bubba Caldwell had a huge gain down the sideline on a well-thrown ball from Osewiler. I don't think he makes much of a fantasy impact this year, and long-term I think King surpasses Caldwell.

Osweiler has a really good arm and looked comfortable running the 2nd team O. He has the physical talent to play QB down the road.

Ah man, you should have yelled at me!

Hillman missed a couple of plays due to cramps but came back in and wowed on a double move to get open down the sidelines. Manning hit him in between two defenders near the sideline. Hillman made Woodyard look silly on that play.

Oz is looking great. That big play to Caldwell was placed perfectly in stride over his shoulder.

More in tonight's report!

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I don't want to steal Lammey's thunder, but made the trek to camp today and here are a few fantasy-relevant tidbits. No pads today.

Hillman got 1st crack with the 1s and Ball rotated with him

From what I could tell Moreno played strictly with the 2s and got some special teams work. He looks substantially bigger, especially his legs. He made a nice adjustment on a throw from Osweiler for a decent gain.

Tamme, Dreessen and Julius Thomas rotated with the 1s at TE. Thomas is massive and he looked pretty polished running routes against the 1st team d. He could be in for a breakout or semibreakout season at TE.

Welker and Manning seem to have a very good chemistry already.

Bubba Caldwell had a huge gain down the sideline on a well-thrown ball from Osewiler. I don't think he makes much of a fantasy impact this year, and long-term I think King surpasses Caldwell.

Osweiler has a really good arm and looked comfortable running the 2nd team O. He has the physical talent to play QB down the road.

Is this referring to Hillman or Moreno?

Moreno working with Osweiler. Hillman working with Manning.

This is much different from the Moreno we saw when he went through his "Crossfit" phase.

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Yeha I didn't realize he fell off to the sub-180 range late last year, but would certainly explain the struggles in running between the tackles and pass pro. I'm still skeptical, honestly...

If he's 200 lbs and can stay at 200, perhaps there's something here. But he struggled to keep the weight on before, so why should we believe he'll keep it on this time?

And you've got a rookie bruiser who's also excelling according to reports, and already getting first team reps.

Just seems like a confusing situation to me. I *want* to believe in the Hillman hype as I can acquire him relatively cheaply in my dynasty, but I've got zero shot at Ball.

I understand why you're hesitant about him keeping the weight on. Clinton Portis fell to 185 during his rookie year (a 1,500 season) then learned how to eat, keep his calories up, and keep the weight on during the year. It's something Ronnie has talked about earlier this year. This is RBBC and the 'starter' is more of a ceremonial term.

So if it's a ceremonial term and RBBC, what is Hillman's upside in this offense? 150 carries plus 50 receptions? 100 carries? 225 carries?

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Nice report, Cecil.

Any chance you can comment on how you would project carries/touches to break out among the RBs, or would that cross the line?

Based on your writings, it certainly seems as if Hillman's going to get a shot here to be the guy. The ZBS may be an excellent fit for him, and he's still the youngest player in the league, so perhaps there's still room to add more muscle and pounds on that frame without losing his speed and quickness. We've certainly seen the ZBS make heroes out of undersized guys before (Steve Slaton comes to mind), but Ball will obviously have a role as well.

Maybe we get a better idea today when the pads come on, but the time to pounce on Hillman would be now in dynasty...

I know you're a big Hillman supporter (have been since last year), but is he going to get a shot at 60% of the load here?

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Nice report, Cecil.

Any chance you can comment on how you would project carries/touches to break out among the RBs, or would that cross the line?

Based on your writings, it certainly seems as if Hillman's going to get a shot here to be the guy. The ZBS may be an excellent fit for him, and he's still the youngest player in the league, so perhaps there's still room to add more muscle and pounds on that frame without losing his speed and quickness. We've certainly seen the ZBS make heroes out of undersized guys before (Steve Slaton comes to mind), but Ball will obviously have a role as well.

Maybe we get a better idea today when the pads come on, but the time to pounce on Hillman would be now in dynasty...

I know you're a big Hillman supporter (have been since last year), but is he going to get a shot at 60% of the load here?

on the sidelines now, will get into this later but the short answer is - depends on how Ball looks in pass pro.

Ball is the red zone back regardless of where he is on the depth chart. More in a bit, practice is about to kick off!

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I go back too (as a Carolina fan) to how John Fox utilizes rookie RBs, and it's not much.

I know this has been beaten to death, but a quick history of the most notable examples:

Foster was a 2nd rounder - sat behind Stephen Davis

DW was a 1st rounder - sat behind Foster

Stew was a 1st rounder - sat behind DW (still in a muddled timeshare post-Fox)

So perhaps, maybe, we shouldn't blame Hillman's lack of usage last year entirely on him. Fox has a pretty good track record with RBs, and it usually involves very limited roles for them as rookies. IF that held in this scenario, Hillman would fall into the lead back role here with Ball being used as a RZ back and short-yardage pounder. In future seasons, that could shift, but that would be the expectation for this year given the historical deployment of Foxy's backfield.

Look forward to hearing more, Cecil!

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I go back too (as a Carolina fan) to how John Fox utilizes rookie RBs, and it's not much.

I know this has been beaten to death, but a quick history of the most notable examples:

Foster was a 2nd rounder - sat behind Stephen Davis

DW was a 1st rounder - sat behind Foster

Stew was a 1st rounder - sat behind DW (still in a muddled timeshare post-Fox)

So perhaps, maybe, we shouldn't blame Hillman's lack of usage last year entirely on him. Fox has a pretty good track record with RBs, and it usually involves very limited roles for them as rookies. IF that held in this scenario, Hillman would fall into the lead back role here with Ball being used as a RZ back and short-yardage pounder. In future seasons, that could shift, but that would be the expectation for this year given the historical deployment of Foxy's backfield.

Look forward to hearing more, Cecil!

In those examples though they had a clear cut established veteran rb in front of the rookie. This year there's no one (I don't count Moreno as established).

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Not a good day for Monte Ball. I was disappointed as I was expecting a lot more on the first day with pads on.

OC Adam Gase said this about Ball after practice:

“I think he missed a couple [blocks] today. But the thing we keep looking for is making sure he is sticking his nose up in there and trying to make the contact. What [Running Backs Coach] Eric Studesville has been doing is taking him aside, work with him and the linebackers one-on-one. It is a process, it’s not going to be an easy thing where he is going to be able to step in there and dominate linebackers as a rookie. It is going to take some time and he is going to have to work on it. We have a lot of training camp practices left.”

more in tonight's report

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Thanks Cecil. Did either Hillman or Moreno seem to step up, i.e. any predictions on the pecking order there?

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Moreno has always been very good in pass pro - that's how he became the lead back last year.

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Thanks Cecil. Did either Hillman or Moreno seem to step up, i.e. any predictions on the pecking order there?

Hillman got the first team reps. Moreno got the second team reps. There was even a team drill where Ball got zero reps...even with the third team. He was later in with the second team.

Hillman and Moreno impressed in pass pro drills. More in my report tonight!

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This is beautiful stuff Cecil...more than anyone can ask for in the offseason. A big thank you!

thanks KOTJ, I appreciate it!

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How are the reps being divided for the MLB?

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Great stuff, as always, Cecil. This is always one of my favorite threads of the year. Thanks for your efforts - we appreciate it.

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Second that! Always a great read

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working on day four report now.

the loss of Koppen is a big gut punch for this team. Philip Blake has been getting abused in practice...on the third team. Ramirez is not the answer at Center. Some have speculated the team could use Chris Kuper in the middle.

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Cecil, I haven't seen much mention of Shaun Phillips. Do you have any opinion based on what you have seen at camp? Thanks in advance.

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Keep it up. Just posting to tag this thread with the little star, not sure how to keep an eye on threads so easily other than posting in them

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I know it's real early...but, the more I read, the more encouraged I am about Hillman maybe holding off Ball.

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I know it's real early...but, the more I read, the more encouraged I am about Hillman maybe holding off Ball.

He's created a gap that Ball is not closing at this time.

It's a RBBC no matter who is the starter.

Ball will be the red zone back no matter where he lands on the depth chart.

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Keep it up. Just posting to tag this thread with the little star, not sure how to keep an eye on threads so easily other than posting in them

:blackdot:

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Video Link:

Dangerous combo brewing in Denver?

00:55 – The Peyton Manning-Wes Welker combination is looking pretty good so far for the Denver Broncos. Check out training-camp highlights of what looks to be an unstoppable duo.

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Keep it up. Just posting to tag this thread with the little star, not sure how to keep an eye on threads so easily other than posting in them

:blackdot:

:goodposting:

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Cecil, I haven't seen much mention of Shaun Phillips. Do you have any opinion based on what you have seen at camp? Thanks in advance.

We saw him in the pit (for only one rep by what I saw). He burned by the OT to get the sack. They are limiting the vet but he's certainly showing explosion and pass rush ability.

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There has to be some concern about the center position...

HUGE concern

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Dysert is really a project. I think it will take a few years before he's competent, let alone good.

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Faust, I wanted to thank you as well for your updates and links. In every "update" or "news" type thread I read, it seems when anyone says "what about this guy", Faust seems to have a magical updated link to news about that guy in that situation. You always seems to be on point and always have the updated news, so, thank you again. :tebow:

Edited by The Claymaker

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working on day four report now.

the loss of Koppen is a big gut punch for this team. Philip Blake has been getting abused in practice...on the third team. Ramirez is not the answer at Center. Some have speculated the team could use Chris Kuper in the middle.

Have they officially IR'd Walton yet? Is Kuper even healthy? Wasn't counting on him as more than a backup this year with the addition of Vasquez. We have GOT to get a center. Even though Koppen wasn't a stud, that's still a huge loss

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I'd like you to rate, on a scale of 1-10, exactly HOW sexy Peyton Manning looks day to day

Peyton Manning looked great today. He's gotten a little sun and seems refreshed from his time on stage with Kenny Chesney and the "No Shoes Nation" tour that just made a stop in Denver.

i am so jealous

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Faust, I wanted to thank you as well for your updates and links. In every "update" or "news" type thread I read, it seems when anyone says "what about this guy", Faust seems to have a magical updated link to news about that guy in that situation. You always seems to be on point and always have the updated news, so, thank you again. :tebow:

Claymaker,

You are too kind my friend!

Cheers,

Faust

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