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Official Johnny Manziel Thread: Manziel admits that his football career is probably ‘in the past’

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This is fascinating. If only most people would live according to the standard they hold famous strangers to this would be a much better world.

Please keep going on about how the 22 year old millionaire isn't living up to your own high standards that I am certain you meticulously adhere to regardless of how much you are paid.

All they have to do is live up to the standards (whatever they are) of the employer who signs their million dollar checks.

When you can't do that.....your done.

I could give a rats ### if Johnny parties and has fun (like any young or veteran NFL player should be able to have). But if it is going to upset your employer then your an idiot for doing it and getting caught over and over and over.

Grow up, take some ownership of yourself and proceed with some sort of caution so you can play in the league. Obviously he has failed to live to the standards set forth to him by his employer.

In the real world you get fired for that. That is what is happening to Johnny now. He is done with the Browns. Another team will pick him up probably and we shall see if he can be a starter again. I never thought he had the metal maturity to be an NFL QB. It's proving to be true. He can't stay out of trouble.

He was coming off quite possibly his best game as a pro (I thought he looked damn good start to finish for the first time), they named him starter for the rest of the season. Now he is right back in the dog house. They obviously have a laundry list longer than what we even know publicly of his off the field BS.

Absolutely agree, and it's playing out that way.

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You JFF fanboys know that not everyone who doubts him is hating on his young and fabulous lifestyle, right? He's an addict who just got the starting job and goes out and parties. His employer asked him to lay low. And on top of it it's not even clear that he's actually better than his replacement-level competition yet.

I'm sure other players party. Somehow they don't need rehab, don't have a carefully crafted and trademarked alter ego.

Oh, and #### this 'he's 22!!!!! That's young and stupid!!!!!' People have fought and died in wars, raised children, started small businesses, by that age for centuries. Hell, most NFL rookies his exact age don't end up in rehab then blowing their chance to start. I worry what some of you are telling your college aged kids, 'don't worry dear you're 21, you have plenty of time to act responsibly. Go ahead, party it up!'

Finally, I guaran-damn-tee you that most of the JFF apologists would be all over Jameis if he was pulling the exact same ####.

This is all fine and dandy but it really is a straw man argument. We all understand that many people his age have held X-Y-Z responsibilities and shouldered them with dignity (and many without dignity as well). What does that have to do with Manziel? It is like you choose to ignore that there are 7 billion individuals on this planet all with unique histories and none of them are the same. Go check the Otis v Woz fatty thread. What difference does it make when discussing Otis that James Daulton lost a bunch of weight and kept it off (good on you JD, keep it up)? None, because they are different people.

You don't just wake up one day and understand the nature of responsibility, particularly when you have lived your entire life without such understanding, (while also being raised wealthy, entitled and with tremendous God given talent). He wasn't given the tools so if he is going to change he has to learn the hard way in a short time frame. He will probably fail, that is where the smart money should be. But the book on him has not been finished yet so I think it is okay to root for him to figure it out and turn his career and life around.

It's difficult to suddenly be told to behave in one particular way when you have spent your entire life behaving in a different way. If you think it is easy why don't you just go ahead and change your fundamental nature right now.

We can talk until we are blue in the face about how we would act in his shoes, or how others should act in his shoes, but the truth is that you have no earthly idea how you would act/react had you/me/them been raised in his situation because you/me/them weren't raised in his situation.

And acknowledging that he has had different experiences, and even rooting for him to pull it together, has no bearing on the values you/me/them choose to instill in our own children.

I understand he kind of is who he is. Look we all know that guy who won't change. That family member we will never trust. That parent who will always be negative or hurtful or an addict.

But this, specific, individual human being is defended by supporters who feel that he isn't any different than other young rich players. Except he is. That's the whole point. If Teddy Bridgewater or Blake Bortles or Derek Carr had the exact same video released of them drinking or partying would they get benched? No. Because they haven't shown a pattern which is reinforced by that video. JFF is being judged as an individual with a history, which is why the backlash from fans and reaction from his employer is harsher than it would be for others.

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:no: Its what I have been saying the entire time, do more reading and less over reacting.

I just dont care about what he does off the field like you do.

I want to watch him play football, if I wanted morals I would go to church.

JFF has talent stop with the hyperbole.

It ain't about morals. Johnny is NOT a bad guy.

Problem is, he is an immature doofus that can never be the kind of guy he needs to be to lead an NFL franchise............and that would be even if he DID have good NFL talent, which unfortunately he does not.

This. And if they really believed in him, they would have overlooked this. This was their way saying goodbye. They've seen enough.

I agree, the coaches do not like him.

So why are you arguing with everyone? That's all anyone is saying. If he had Aaron Rodgers-type talent, or even Jay Cutler talent, he'd be their number one QB and being Gronk-like with his Twitter posts. When you have minimal talent, teams don't want the distraction.

I'm discussing, you are doing the arguing. Also, I do not agree with your evaluation on JFF. Much like the love you shown for CMike.

I challenged you before to find one post where I ever bragged up CMike. I took a flyer on him during Dallas' bye week because some beat guys were claiming that he was running with the first team in practice. I dropped him two games later. I followed that thread because it was hilarious. Not sure why you think I'm a CMike guy. But the challenge is still out there. Go find me a post where I even seemed lukewarm on the guy. I'll be waiting.

The delete function is sweet!

Can't delete quoted posts, son. That thread was nothing but back and forth for a billion pages. If I was pro-Michael, there's certainly evidence of it in there. I was never a CMike guy. I simply mocked some guy who quoted himself when he was cut, as if he was some genius. I had him for exactly two weeks. If I said anything, it was anti-Michael. Wanted to know why Seattle would get rid of him if he was so talented. Feel free to search the thread, since you seem concerned. Again, I'll wait.

Edited by JuniorNB

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Manziel has started 5 games. Comparison of some other Qb's first 5 starts:

----------------- .....ATT......COMP.....%......YARDS......TD......INT..........TEAM RECORD

Manziel...............119...........69.......58%......824..........4.........3..................1-4

HOF QB 1............142.........57......40.1%....799...........5.........11..............0-4-1

HOF QB 2...........125..........58.......46.4%.....894........3..........8................0-5

Stats wise Manziel was better than these 2 HOF Qb's. But we all know that stats don't tell the whole story. there is more to being an NFL starter than just stats.

On my way to work. Back in about 7 hours

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What did this kid ever do to engender such hate from not only fans, but the entire journalistic community? We are talking about a thoroughly corrupt league here, one which has tolerated, and continues to tolerate, genuine thugs who are given chance after chance, even after committing violent crimes. Manziel has never even been accused of a crime. From what I can determine, he likes to have fun and party. Wow- what reprehensible behavior for a young guy.

Jamis Winston was caught stealing and was accused of rape twice. Cam Newton stole a laptop, was caught cheating on his exams and his father was trying to sell him to the highest bidder. Neither suffered in the court of public opinion and each was still chosen #1 overall in the draft. While Manziel was blasted for his "chance" last season- 1 1/2 games worth- Winston's first game this year was very, very bad, and yet no one suggested he was a "bust" after one game.

When was the last time a player was drafted in the first round whose coach clearly and obviously hates him? Pettine lashed out at Manziel during a halftime interview a few weeks back, when Manziel had played very well in the first half. Like so many of these glorified gym teachers, Pettine is lacking in intelligence and vision. He hates Manziel because it's politically correct to do so. Who doesn't hate this guy? Pacman Jones- who is somehow still in the league- has fewer haters, despite his litany of criminal offenses. So does Aquib Talib, whose most recent offense was trying to gouge out an opponent's eye. So does Greg Hardy; apparently it's less "offensive" to sexually assault women than it is to "party."

Quarterbacks in the recent past were big "partyers." Joe Namath and Kenny Stabler (both of whom had links to mobsters). Billy Kilmer was sometimes drunk on the field. Sonny Jurgensen. Bobby Layne. Presently, Ben Roethlesberger clearly likes to "party" as much as Manziel does. But Manziel hasn't been accused of rape. Twice. Yes, I know Big Ben has proven his worth, but Manziel hasn't been given a chance to prove anything. He's just continually told to "grow up."

I have never heard a single announcer or talking head say that they like Manziel. Even Tebow would have journalists saying "I like him personally but...." We're talking about one of the most exciting college football players ever, and no one who covers the sport liked him? He had no real off the field issues, unlike Winston and Newton. But instead, everybody just hates him. And now his own team has demoted him, before it ever gave him a real chance, because he was caught "partying."

By way of comparison, Jamis Winston- who is being talked up as an offensive rookie of the year candidate- hasn't passed for 300 yards in a single game yet. Manziel, in his best game to date, just passed for 372. Neither has Tyrod Taylor- whom no one is suggesting should be benched, despite the fact he hasn't passed for even 200 yards in half his starts. And Manziel can run as well as any of the running quarterbacks, but his coach mysteriously doesn't want him to do that.

The NFL's product has never been more mediocre than it is now. Here they have a potentially exciting young star, and yet the entire league, and the journalists covering it, are doing everything they can to stop him from reaching that potential. While they embrace youngsters with the most violent pasts imaginable, Manziel is labeled as a "character" concern because he...well, likes to party. This entire league has become a giant joke.

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Johnny didn't do his job, the Browns didn't do their job. Arguably both were predictable. I was giving one the benefit of the doubt, with the other there never was a doubt.

The Browns are a clown show, but this is all on Johnny.

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I understand he kind of is who he is. Look we all know that guy who won't change. That family member we will never trust. That parent who will always be negative or hurtful or an addict.

But this, specific, individual human being is defended by supporters who feel that he isn't any different than other young rich players. Except he is. That's the whole point. If Teddy Bridgewater or Blake Bortles or Derek Carr had the exact same video released of them drinking or partying would they get benched? No. Because they haven't shown a pattern which is reinforced by that video. JFF is being judged as an individual with a history, which is why the backlash from fans and reaction from his employer is harsher than it would be for others.

I agree and want to be clear that my position is not one of defending Manziel (he's kind of a knucklehead, although a seemingly harmless one) rather I don't like the nature of the criticism I am hearing about him. People are being ridiculously judgmental (often petty and vicious IMO) and many of them are clearly holding him to a standard that I strongly believe they do not apply to themselves. They seem to have a lot of free hands with which to cast stones.

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Officially on the record as hoping he gets his act together and goes on to a successful career as a starting NFL QB.

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What did this kid ever do to engender such hate from not only fans, but the entire journalistic community? We are talking about a thoroughly corrupt league here, one which has tolerated, and continues to tolerate, genuine thugs who are given chance after chance, even after committing violent crimes. Manziel has never even been accused of a crime. From what I can determine, he likes to have fun and party. Wow- what reprehensible behavior for a young guy.

Jamis Winston was caught stealing and was accused of rape twice. Cam Newton stole a laptop, was caught cheating on his exams and his father was trying to sell him to the highest bidder. Neither suffered in the court of public opinion and each was still chosen #1 overall in the draft. While Manziel was blasted for his "chance" last season- 1 1/2 games worth- Winston's first game this year was very, very bad, and yet no one suggested he was a "bust" after one game.

When was the last time a player was drafted in the first round whose coach clearly and obviously hates him? Pettine lashed out at Manziel during a halftime interview a few weeks back, when Manziel had played very well in the first half. Like so many of these glorified gym teachers, Pettine is lacking in intelligence and vision. He hates Manziel because it's politically correct to do so. Who doesn't hate this guy? Pacman Jones- who is somehow still in the league- has fewer haters, despite his litany of criminal offenses. So does Aquib Talib, whose most recent offense was trying to gouge out an opponent's eye. So does Greg Hardy; apparently it's less "offensive" to sexually assault women than it is to "party."

Quarterbacks in the recent past were big "partyers." Joe Namath and Kenny Stabler (both of whom had links to mobsters). Billy Kilmer was sometimes drunk on the field. Sonny Jurgensen. Bobby Layne. Presently, Ben Roethlesberger clearly likes to "party" as much as Manziel does. But Manziel hasn't been accused of rape. Twice. Yes, I know Big Ben has proven his worth, but Manziel hasn't been given a chance to prove anything. He's just continually told to "grow up."

I have never heard a single announcer or talking head say that they like Manziel. Even Tebow would have journalists saying "I like him personally but...." We're talking about one of the most exciting college football players ever, and no one who covers the sport liked him? He had no real off the field issues, unlike Winston and Newton. But instead, everybody just hates him. And now his own team has demoted him, before it ever gave him a real chance, because he was caught "partying."

By way of comparison, Jamis Winston- who is being talked up as an offensive rookie of the year candidate- hasn't passed for 300 yards in a single game yet. Manziel, in his best game to date, just passed for 372. Neither has Tyrod Taylor- whom no one is suggesting should be benched, despite the fact he hasn't passed for even 200 yards in half his starts. And Manziel can run as well as any of the running quarterbacks, but his coach mysteriously doesn't want him to do that.

The NFL's product has never been more mediocre than it is now. Here they have a potentially exciting young star, and yet the entire league, and the journalists covering it, are doing everything they can to stop him from reaching that potential. While they embrace youngsters with the most violent pasts imaginable, Manziel is labeled as a "character" concern because he...well, likes to party. This entire league has become a giant joke.

I can agree with most of what you wrote. However, the bolded is not true. Only JF can stop himself from reaching his potential. JF admitted to blowing off his rookie year. And, it does not look like he is putting much work into this year. I am guessing that the Browns want him to act like a starting QB and want him working on reading defenses and knowing the entire playbook. He was just named the starting QB. He should have taken that seriously.

This is not the end of Johnny. He has enough talent to get more chances.

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It's a simple matter of double standards. Either this league wants a bunch of choir boys, in which case they need to quickly banish a huge number of players with backgrounds far more questionable and disturbing than Manziel's, or they need to cut this kid some slack and allow him a chance to play.

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Jamis Winston was caught stealing and was accused of rape twice. Cam Newton stole a laptop, was caught cheating on his exams and his father was trying to sell him to the highest bidder. Neither suffered in the court of public opinion and each was still chosen #1 overall in the draft. While Manziel was blasted for his "chance" last season- 1 1/2 games worth- Winston's first game this year was very, very bad, and yet no one suggested he was a "bust" after one game.

You bring up two excellent examples that show Manziel is on his last legs as an NFL quarterback, while the others are becoming stars.

Manziel, Cam Newton, and Jameis Winston were all knuckleheads in college. One bad choice after another. All three thought they were above having rules and boundaries. Both Newton and Winston grew up and took their job seriously once they turned pro. Manziel won't. Or can't. A teammate has called Winston the hardest working player that he ever saw. The guy strives to be a great quarterback and succeed. He matured. Took his job seriously. And hasn't embarrassed the Buccaneers once. I presume Manziel will still get a chance with another team. Most feel that Dallas would give him a chance because of the home state ties and their pitiful backup quarterbacks. If Manziel finally 'gets it' and wants a chance to succeed like Newton and Winston, then he's going to have to change his frat boy lifestyle. Simple as that.

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How could a team ever feel safe when there is always the worry this guy is going to show up at the stadium Sunday morning half drunk and hung over? Hes done.

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How could a team ever feel safe when there is always the worry this guy is going to show up at the stadium Sunday morning half drunk and hung over? Hes done.

I bet he starts again this year.

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How could a team ever feel safe when there is always the worry this guy is going to show up at the stadium Sunday morning half drunk and hung over? Hes done.

I bet he starts again this year.

rehab or football?

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How could a team ever feel safe when there is always the worry this guy is going to show up at the stadium Sunday morning half drunk and hung over? Hes done.

I bet he starts again this year.

A game of beer pong?

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Extensive and lengthy rehab? Wasn't it an obvious PR move orchestrated by his people and the team to salvage his image and thus his career? He was pulled over last month and admitted to drinking earlier in the day, the Browns let him start after that. A lot of guys on the internet who never played pro football know an awful lot about what it takes to make it in the nfl. I'm no Manziel fan. I think the guy is a knucklehead but we've reached a point of insanity with the way we judge pro athletes. What's wrong with a guy just being who he is? Does every athlete have to be a complete, image-obsessed phony like Manning or Brady in order to gain the world's approval?

I've heard that guy Brady has anger management issues.

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There are tons of NFL players who don't work hard or take their jobs seriously. When the Redskins traded for Desean Jackson, there were widely published photos of him celebrating in clubs, while flashing gang signs. His coach didn't hate him because of that, let alone bench him. Instead, he was welcomed with open arms.

I'd love to know how many NFL players don't party regularly, don't drink regularly (let alone do drugs). How many players continue to be suspended for substance-abuse problems? Every one of them is welcomed back eagerly when their suspension is over. It's absurd to claim that Manziel is an anomaly, the only guy in the league who likes to have fun. The difference is- only Manziel is taken to task for simple photos of him out having a good time.

There are other issues here. What other player (except Tebow) invokes such universal hatred from the media? Merrill Hoge doesn't shout "he can't play" about other players. The NFL is normally all about promoting star college players. And excusing the misconduct of its own players, both stars and scrubs.

If Manziel worked for a church, maybe his conduct would stand out. In the NFL, he is not only no worse than normal in terms of behavior, he is significantly better.

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Extensive and lengthy rehab? Wasn't it an obvious PR move orchestrated by his people and the team to salvage his image and thus his career? He was pulled over last month and admitted to drinking earlier in the day, the Browns let him start after that. A lot of guys on the internet who never played pro football know an awful lot about what it takes to make it in the nfl. I'm no Manziel fan. I think the guy is a knucklehead but we've reached a point of insanity with the way we judge pro athletes. What's wrong with a guy just being who he is? Does every athlete have to be a complete, image-obsessed phony like Manning or Brady in order to gain the world's approval?

I've heard that guy Brady has anger management issues.

I also saw Peyton sidekick his brother in the butt when Archie wasn't looking.

Edited by JuniorNB

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I see a guy in that video who's out having a good time and being accommodating to fans during his week off. He's not fighting, he's not being belligerent, he didn't follow a girl into the bathroom and grope her, there's no practice the next day to be hungover for, he even has an extra day off because they play on Monday. Was it communicated to Manziel in no uncertain terms that he couldn't go out for a drink during the bye week? I remember Romo and Witten flying to Mexico to party before a playoff game a few years back, they both kept their jobs. Manziel is doing what many athletes do when they have free time. Why are the rules different for him? Because he won a Heisman? Has he been arrested? Did he violate the leagues substance abuse policy? Has he shown up drunk to the team's facility? He's a fun loving guy who likes to improvise on the field. Pettine wants a straight arrow who's a pure pocket passer. So why'd they draft the guy in the first place? What has Pettine ever accomplished as a HC to think that if Manziel isn't right for Pettine's system then he can't succeed? 9-17 as a head coach, 5 years as a defensive coordinator of some loaded squads. What kind of head coach knocks his QB during the halftime interview? What kind of head coach yaps incessantly to the media about team issues?

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There are tons of NFL players who don't work hard or take their jobs seriously. When the Redskins traded for Desean Jackson, there were widely published photos of him celebrating in clubs, while flashing gang signs. His coach didn't hate him because of that, let alone bench him. Instead, he was welcomed with open arms.

The Redskins didn't trade for DeSean Jackson. He was cut by Philadelphia. And do you know why he was cut by Philly? It was partly because he was out celebrating in clubs and flashing gang signs.

Jackson thought he was bigger than the team, just like Manziel.

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War against the media is my favorite go-to play for irrational fandom

It's crazier than the Michael thread in here. The presumption is that the Browns don't think his personal habits affect his football ability on gameday, but in reality they are just moralizers who disapprove of Manziel and are embarrassed by his pr.

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There are tons of NFL players who don't work hard or take their jobs seriously. When the Redskins traded for Desean Jackson, there were widely published photos of him celebrating in clubs, while flashing gang signs. His coach didn't hate him because of that, let alone bench him. Instead, he was welcomed with open arms.

The Redskins didn't trade for DeSean Jackson. He was cut by Philadelphia. And do you know why he was cut by Philly? It was partly because he was out celebrating in clubs and flashing gang signs.

Jackson thought he was bigger than the team, just like Manziel.

Kelly got rid of a ton of guys in an effort to change the culture. Reports this week are that Kelly has lost the team and could be out at the end of the year. Maybe getting rid of guys like Jackson and McCoy weren't the best decisions in hindsight.

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Officially on the record as hoping he gets his act together and goes on to a successful career as a starting NFL QB.

Me too. I hope that also. But it would behoove him at this point to consider what head coach and offensive system he goes to. He has 2 years of wasted effort in one system under his belt. Two whole years of his career, poof. Now instead of being a QB coming a year early out of college with raw talent, he's now essentially starting all over a year older than most rookie QBs in 2016 but not necessarily better mentally equipped. He needs to find a Harbaugh or Kelly (not necessarily them, but someone with their knack for innovation at the QB position) who will believe in him and put him in an offense that accentuates his talents. That's presuming he gets his act together as you say.

This won't be well received but maybe he should think of Canada and do the Flutie thing, play in boring towns, wide open fields and innovative coaches who like to pass and aren't so stuck on what their QB does at night or during the weekdays in the facility. They are begging for stars too, the Als put Michael Sam on the field almost sight unseen, he never practiced with them and they just made him the starter. Become a professional, expand his game, develop some confidence and become a respected player. Yes, I know this will never happen.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006

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There are tons of NFL players who don't work hard or take their jobs seriously. When the Redskins traded for Desean Jackson, there were widely published photos of him celebrating in clubs, while flashing gang signs. His coach didn't hate him because of that, let alone bench him. Instead, he was welcomed with open arms.

The Redskins didn't trade for DeSean Jackson. He was cut by Philadelphia. And do you know why he was cut by Philly? It was partly because he was out celebrating in clubs and flashing gang signs.

Jackson thought he was bigger than the team, just like Manziel.

Kelly got rid of a ton of guys in an effort to change the culture. Reports this week are that Kelly has lost the team and could be out at the end of the year. Maybe getting rid of guys like Jackson and McCoy weren't the best decisions in hindsight.

McCoy, maybe. Jackson was a thug. A tiny one, but still a thug. He also admitted that he dogged it a few years ago because Philly wouldn't renegotiate his contract. I wouldn't want Philly resigning him if he were cut tomorrow. Not even for the league minimum.

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"...To be successful at the position requires a great understanding of what's involved in the non-physical aspects: The leadership, the trust, the accountability, responsibility, the diligence. You have to take the mentality that nobody is going to outwork you. That has to be understood when you play the position at this level."

Said Pettine: "I can't emphasize enough the importance of the trust and the accountability piece. This is where we had an obvious shortcoming."

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The failure rate for all NFL prospects is high, perhaps higher at Q.B. than other positions.

The failure rate for undersized players is higher than for other prospects.

All players, regardless of physical attributes have to be extraordinarily dedicated to their craft to stay in the NFL.

Quarterbacks attend to be uniquely situated both due to their role and to their place in the salary structure (Or in some cases their anticipated place). They are 'key personnel'. They have greater responsibility to their organization than the average player.

Billionaire business owners may tolerate happy go lucky characters, but not in key positions. You don't give the keys to a rolls Royce to a drunk car parker.

Manziel has too many strikes against him, physical and responsibility-wise. He is done.

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I do not think he is done. He has some ability. I do not know if he has quite enough ability but he has some. He will get more chances.

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Did either of those HOF quarterbacks start their careers since the NFL changed the rules to favor offenses?

Dan Fouts and Troy Aikman are the two. Fouts had some passing records until they were broken.

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How could a team ever feel safe when there is always the worry this guy is going to show up at the stadium Sunday morning half drunk and hung over? Hes done.

Do we know this ever happened? I mean he just finished a game with over 350 yards passing, over 73% completions, 8+ yards per attempt a TD and a pick. Yet despite all we suggest/hope/believe etc. all we know is that he was benched for some champagne karaoke during his bye week. We love to speculate but that is all we know.

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There are tons of NFL players who don't work hard or take their jobs seriously. When the Redskins traded for Desean Jackson, there were widely published photos of him celebrating in clubs, while flashing gang signs. His coach didn't hate him because of that, let alone bench him. Instead, he was welcomed with open arms.

The Redskins didn't trade for DeSean Jackson. He was cut by Philadelphia. And do you know why he was cut by Philly? It was partly because he was out celebrating in clubs and flashing gang signs.

Jackson thought he was bigger than the team, just like Manziel.

Kelly got rid of a ton of guys in an effort to change the culture. Reports this week are that Kelly has lost the team and could be out at the end of the year. Maybe getting rid of guys like Jackson and McCoy weren't the best decisions in hindsight.

McCoy, maybe. Jackson was a thug. A tiny one, but still a thug. He also admitted that he dogged it a few years ago because Philly wouldn't renegotiate his contract. I wouldn't want Philly resigning him if he were cut tomorrow. Not even for the league minimum.

What makes him a thug?

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Did either of those HOF quarterbacks start their careers since the NFL changed the rules to favor offenses?

Dan Fouts and Troy Aikman are the two. Fouts had some passing records until they were broken.

Those numbers are irrelevant to Johnny Football. It is a different game today.

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Billionaire business owners may tolerate happy go lucky characters, but not in key positions.

That simply is not true. It they think it will help them win, they will tolerate a red hot iron rod inserted in places that a red hot iron rod should never be inserted. And they'll gladly smile during the Lombardi Trophy parade.

Edited by Chaka

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I can't believe this is really an argument here....the position of qb in the NFL is different than any other in all of sports. The qb is the guy who sets the tone. I remember a few years back when Romo took a Caribbean trip on the bye week. He got crucified for just taking the trip. Manziel is an idiot. He drinks too much for someone who is a leader of an NFL team and probably at one point had a coke problem (might still have it). This is why he is getting demoted. Anyone with half a brain would be laying low and spending extra time studying film.

People bring up #### like Joe Namath and Desean Jackson and they are not even remotely comparable; one played in a totally different era where many of the dudes had second jobs and what not, and the other plays a diva position , which is quite frankly a dime a dozen, so who cares if he parties?

Just think of all the top qbs in the league and think about what their reputations are as far as being devout students of the game, being demanding of others, being total hard a$$es and #####. Johnny Dumba$$ doesn't get it. Like another person pointed out even Winston looks like he has seen the light. If you are the qb and you want to stay the qb, you have to be the first one in and the last one out; plain and simple. You can't bogart a pile of coke and then not wake up for practice.

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I can't believe this is really an argument here....the position of qb in the NFL is different than any other in all of sports. The qb is the guy who sets the tone. I remember a few years back when Romo took a Caribbean trip on the bye week. He got crucified for just taking the trip. Manziel is an idiot. He drinks too much for someone who is a leader of an NFL team and probably at one point had a coke problem (might still have it). This is why he is getting demoted. Anyone with half a brain would be laying low and spending extra time studying film.

People bring up #### like Joe Namath and Desean Jackson and they are not even remotely comparable; one played in a totally different era where many of the dudes had second jobs and what not, and the other plays a diva position , which is quite frankly a dime a dozen, so who cares if he parties?

Just think of all the top qbs in the league and think about what their reputations are as far as being devout students of the game, being demanding of others, being total hard ###es and #####. Johnny Dumb### doesn't get it. Like another person pointed out even Winston looks like he has seen the light. If you are the qb and you want to stay the qb, you have to be the first one in and the last one out; plain and simple. You can't bogart a pile of coke and then not wake up for practice.

My problem isn't with the notion that he may be all the things you say he is. My problem is with all the people who state those things as a fact.

You really should be able to back up assertions, particularly when you accuse someone of being a coke head. AFAIK the most damning evidence of cocaine is a cell phone photo which doesn't really show much of anything.

Edited by Chaka

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QB is like the CEO on the field, why put your business in the hands of a 16 year old party boy? He needs to go to the bench.

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It amazes me how judgmental people are in here as if Manziel is some major screw up for not becoming the person/player that you expect him to be. It's like people forget that at least 16% of all NFL players go bankrupt within 12 years of retirement (and many reports suggest that number is much higher). So many of these guys are simply ill equipped to deal with the realities of life off the field yet for some reason there are certain polarizing players who are treated as unique cases (Manziel, Christine Michael, Bryce Brown) when they are far closer to the norm for their peer group than anyone seems willing to acknowledge. I think most people should just ease up on the sanctimony when posting about how others live their lives. Y'know glass houses, free hands, casting stones and all that.

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It amazes me how judgmental people are in here as if Manziel is some major screw up for not becoming the person/player that you expect him to be. It's like people forget that at least 16% of all NFL players go bankrupt within 12 years of retirement (and many reports suggest that number is much higher). So many of these guys are simply ill equipped to deal with the realities of life off the field yet for some reason there are certain polarizing players who are treated as unique cases (Manziel, Christine Michael, Bryce Brown) when they are far closer to the norm for their peer group than anyone seems willing to acknowledge. I think most people should just ease up on the sanctimony when posting about how others live their lives. Y'know glass houses, free hands, casting stones and all that.

You are welcome to start a thread on some other idiot, and I am sure people will pile on there, too.

Those guys just arent as fun to talk about.

We judge all those idiots, too, we just aren't posting about them

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It amazes me how judgmental people are in here as if Manziel is some major screw up for not becoming the person/player that you expect him to be. It's like people forget that at least 16% of all NFL players go bankrupt within 12 years of retirement (and many reports suggest that number is much higher). So many of these guys are simply ill equipped to deal with the realities of life off the field yet for some reason there are certain polarizing players who are treated as unique cases (Manziel, Christine Michael, Bryce Brown) when they are far closer to the norm for their peer group than anyone seems willing to acknowledge. I think most people should just ease up on the sanctimony when posting about how others live their lives. Y'know glass houses, free hands, casting stones and all that.

I think you fail to understand the position of QB.

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I do know though, that I was an irresponsible 22 year old.

However, I also know I could have easily avoided idiotic partying for the camera for more than a few days after being handed the starting job for the rest of the year, after being given explicit instructions to do just about anything BUT be seen on camera being an idiot partying.

It seems to be a combination of idiocy and defiance. Those traits do not correlate with good NFL QB.

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It amazes me how judgmental people are in here as if Manziel is some major screw up for not becoming the person/player that you expect him to be. It's like people forget that at least 16% of all NFL players go bankrupt within 12 years of retirement (and many reports suggest that number is much higher). So many of these guys are simply ill equipped to deal with the realities of life off the field yet for some reason there are certain polarizing players who are treated as unique cases (Manziel, Christine Michael, Bryce Brown) when they are far closer to the norm for their peer group than anyone seems willing to acknowledge. I think most people should just ease up on the sanctimony when posting about how others live their lives. Y'know glass houses, free hands, casting stones and all that.

I think you fail to understand the position of QB.

No, I don't. But thanks, I appreciate your opinion even though I disagree with it.

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