This thread is off the rails. There's nothing wrong with Manziel being who he is. Just as there's nothing wrong with the Browns deciding that Manziel being who he is means that he won't be who he is as their starting QB.
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Official Johnny Manziel Thread (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
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Hawkeye21
Footballguy
So just because you want to watch football means we should just disregard everything players do off the field so we can be entertained? The NFL is still a business and it's players should be handled like they are working for a business.
I didn't mean to call out ALL college students but I think I got my point across. I would hope that a student that is going for his BA can understand the point I am trying to prove.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
What do you know about Namath? One of the greatest QBs of all time and yet he played in 3 playoff games in 13 seasons. In the SB, his greatest victory, he didn't throw a pass in the 4th quarter. Next season with a championship quality team he threw 3 picks and 0 TDs, he went 14/40/169/0/3, 17.6 QBR, and lost his only playoff game. Apparently the year before he was lucky to even make the SB because by first hand accounts he was out getting loaded in Manhattan the night before the playoff game. He ended up with a good game late (3 TDs) but he also went 14/49 and barely won 27-23. Alcoholism might have ruined his career. There is no telling what Namath could have done, but in the end he had a career 173/220 TD/INT ratio and had one short glorious run.
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You're not the one footing the bill on Manziel's salary. If you were, you could watch him play all you wanted. The one's who are paying him money are clearly, and rightfully, displeased with his actions and how seriously he's taking his job.
And your last sentence may be the least surprising disclaimer in FBG history.
Willie Neslon
Footballguy
If it wasn't then why after a relapse is he not back in rehab? Why'd the Browns keep him on the team and then start him? The whole unveiling and post rehab tidbits came off like PR 101.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
I don't want to say that Manziel can't do things like that, he can have all the fun he wants to and that's his right. What I'm saying is that he should expect to have consequences when it comes to his job and I don't understand why people feel the need to defend him.
If he wants to party then go party, just don't expect to have a meaningful career in the NFL. Quit wasting the organisation's time and money.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
pantherclub
Footballguy
Willie Neslon
Footballguy
Is there other video of this weekend I didn't see? I just saw the 5 second video of him standing there with a bottle and singing while some guy is trying to take a picture with him.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I'm guessing John is pretty damned pleased to be leaving Cleveland. He is a moron, to have the chance to be a football hero in that kind of town? He has no idea what he's doing, he could have been king if he had won there and loved the people. He will never have that chance again. My guess is he has the champagne out instead.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
It's not just the Browns.
How about TX A&M?
- 2 years ago, for a team he was driving to victories and winning awards.
How about TX A&M?
http://deadspin.com/leaked-internal-scouting-report-the-patriots-do-not-li-1574040417
- 2 years ago, for a team he was driving to victories and winning awards.
TLEF316
Footballguy
When you are supposed to be the face/leader of an NFL franchise (which is the expectation when you're a first round QB) and they're paying you millions of dollars to do so, you lose any right to chalk stuff up to "just being a kid". Its a double standard (just look at Gronk, who just gets to be the goofy frat bro because A) He's really really good and B) because he doesn't play quarterback) but that's life. People's jobs (stupid people, since they drafted him) depend on him and that comes with responsibility. When you sign that contract, you accept that responsibility.
Your margin for error gets even slimmer when you have a history of poor substance-abuse related behavior. It becomes basically non-existent when you also have shown to stink at playing NFL football.
Anyone with a brain could have seen this coming a mile away. He was blessed with the talent needed to succeed at the HS and college level (While playing an undisciplined style of football that didn't require much game prep) and always had the backstop of his family money in case it didn't work out. This kid is the very embodiment of "born on 3rd and acts like he hit a triple".
I do think there is something to the idea that social media makes it A LOT harder for star athletes to live their lives. And maybe that's not entirely fair. But there are plenty of other guys his age (even guys with checkered pasts like Cam Newton) who have managed to do so.
Your margin for error gets even slimmer when you have a history of poor substance-abuse related behavior. It becomes basically non-existent when you also have shown to stink at playing NFL football.
Anyone with a brain could have seen this coming a mile away. He was blessed with the talent needed to succeed at the HS and college level (While playing an undisciplined style of football that didn't require much game prep) and always had the backstop of his family money in case it didn't work out. This kid is the very embodiment of "born on 3rd and acts like he hit a triple".
I do think there is something to the idea that social media makes it A LOT harder for star athletes to live their lives. And maybe that's not entirely fair. But there are plenty of other guys his age (even guys with checkered pasts like Cam Newton) who have managed to do so.
amnesiac
beer is good
he's the dark twin of Tebow.
massraider
Footballguy
Ha.
Really tho, there's a sizable amount of people looking forward to the failure.
It's really a bummer about Johnny, if he was successful, the league would be fun. Guys like Kaepernick, Griffin, and Manziel, if they were all running around and winning games, the league would be better.
I don't hate Johnny at all, I'm just not a believer.
Part of the problem is that the media has a massive hard-on for him and brings attention to everything he does. Honest truth is that he is a young man in his 20s who is going to want to have fun. Does he have problems controlling his alcohol use? Probably, he admits as much. Is it affecting his play? We have no evidence to believe it is at this point. Let him be a big boy and make his own decisions in his free time. It's not like his whipping his #### out and taking pictures of it, alledgedly raping women, or beating the #### out his girlfriend.
If the Browns are going to yank the leash every time the guy gets his picture taken, they need to just deal him away. He should be more responsible than he is but the Browns either don't have the ability to make him do it or he doesn't have enough respect for them to listen. Let the man play and if he sucks because he's off partying on his off week, then you punish him.
If the Browns are going to yank the leash every time the guy gets his picture taken, they need to just deal him away. He should be more responsible than he is but the Browns either don't have the ability to make him do it or he doesn't have enough respect for them to listen. Let the man play and if he sucks because he's off partying on his off week, then you punish him.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
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Apple Jack
Footballguy
Poor "kid" just can't catch a break in life.
massraider
Footballguy
That might be part of the problem, but if you are under a microscope, then you have to play the hand you are dealt. It's not like he had no issues, one harmless video came out, and the team yanked him. It's the total sum of all the screw-ups, and the team doesn't trust him.
Willie Neslon
Footballguy
I have first hand knowledge of pros in a different sport who have road phones. Equipment guys collect their home phones the second they get on the plane and give them a different phone that they use for their side ladies. Home phones for the wife and family, road phones for the hussies. The team takes care of everything. Maybe one or two guys on the whole team doesn't partake. The rest are out with whoever until whenever setting it all up on their team bought, side-piece phone. Watch their interview after the game and you'd never guess it was that way, not for that decent, hardworking player. But it is.
I understand the NFL has an image problem with the player arrests, with the concussions and whatever else but I'm tired of having to pretend that these guys are all choir boys. They're not. I don't care what they do in their private lives. They want to party all night? Cheat on their wives? Drugs? Hookers? I. Don't. Care. Do whatever the hell you want. I'll still watch the games. Johnny Manziel is like thousands of current and former professional athletes. He's a young guy with money who likes to party. Maybe it'll cost him his career, maybe it'll cost him more. Who cares? I don't. If the league wasn't so image obsessed the Browns wouldn't either. To think that this guy lost his job for going out during his bye week is ludicrous. Have we become so naive to think that the sport is played by perfect people? It's a violent game played by some unsavory characters, some of whom like to have a pop or thirty every now and again. Greats of the game in every sport liked to have a good time to excess. Imagine if Babe Ruth lived during these times. The Yankees probably would have released him.
The Olympics are coming. Get ready for story after BS story about how Michael Phelps is a good and decent person now because he acknowledged and dealt with his demons. Why will we have to hear about this over and over? Because Michael Phelps moves merchandise for a lot of people. That's the only reason. If he was any other schlep he would have paid his dui fine and moved on with his life, changing nothing other than maybe making sure he took Uber the next time he went out. Instead we'll be bombarded with feel good, carefully crafted PR BS so the same people who vilify Johnny Manziel in this thread will continue to purchase whatever crap Michael Phelps is shilling.
I understand the NFL has an image problem with the player arrests, with the concussions and whatever else but I'm tired of having to pretend that these guys are all choir boys. They're not. I don't care what they do in their private lives. They want to party all night? Cheat on their wives? Drugs? Hookers? I. Don't. Care. Do whatever the hell you want. I'll still watch the games. Johnny Manziel is like thousands of current and former professional athletes. He's a young guy with money who likes to party. Maybe it'll cost him his career, maybe it'll cost him more. Who cares? I don't. If the league wasn't so image obsessed the Browns wouldn't either. To think that this guy lost his job for going out during his bye week is ludicrous. Have we become so naive to think that the sport is played by perfect people? It's a violent game played by some unsavory characters, some of whom like to have a pop or thirty every now and again. Greats of the game in every sport liked to have a good time to excess. Imagine if Babe Ruth lived during these times. The Yankees probably would have released him.
The Olympics are coming. Get ready for story after BS story about how Michael Phelps is a good and decent person now because he acknowledged and dealt with his demons. Why will we have to hear about this over and over? Because Michael Phelps moves merchandise for a lot of people. That's the only reason. If he was any other schlep he would have paid his dui fine and moved on with his life, changing nothing other than maybe making sure he took Uber the next time he went out. Instead we'll be bombarded with feel good, carefully crafted PR BS so the same people who vilify Johnny Manziel in this thread will continue to purchase whatever crap Michael Phelps is shilling.
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Willie you really think the Browns don't think his behavior/attitude/problems affects him, the coaches and the team on game day?
It's your position that regardless of talent, the Browns are just embarrassed by the pr and that's it?
It's your position that regardless of talent, the Browns are just embarrassed by the pr and that's it?
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KellysHeroes
Footballguy
and i'm sure no other NFL football player partied during their bye week. Who has more party videos, Gronk or Manziel? I bet its close, but for some reason we give Gronk a pass and want to throw Johnny out of the league. The kid didn't hurt anybody last I checked or is in any type of program. Good, The Browns are an awful team; the kid will get another chance.
Old Smiley
Footballguy
Again, to me it's not about boozing or partying, it's about not working to learn the playbook which he doesn't seem to know very well or know his progressions which he doesn't appear to understand... And that's with the fact that we still don't even know how JFF at his best is going to scale to the pros.
He's got a ton of work to do. He doesn't have time to party.
Read Peter King's excellent piece on how hard Carson Palmer works to prepare for a game. That's like a twelve year vet.
He's got a ton of work to do. He doesn't have time to party.
Read Peter King's excellent piece on how hard Carson Palmer works to prepare for a game. That's like a twelve year vet.
massraider
Footballguy
Great post, Willie. I've spent a lot of time around pro athletes, and they are 20-somethings with a lot of money, they get after it, no doubt. I think if Johnny was performing well, and practicing well, he'd have a lot more leeway. I also think a lot of guys that get up to no good know when it's time to answer the bell, and go to work. Maybe Johnny hasn't found that balance.
Fact is, he's not getting the job done, and while it's very early, that's the NFL. Developing is expected to be accelerated.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
You see, the Browns have this really talented QB who will lead them to wins, but they can't see that because, even though he was the owner's personal pet pick and project, and even though his habits don't affect him or the team on the field (I mean, we know that), they are just morally offended and embarrassed by the pr. It's simple really.
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
HS, Manziel in 2014 was the number 14 jersey/merch seller for the NFL, between Andrew Luck and DeMarco Murray.
matuski
Footballguy
I think the Browns are part of the problem. The worst place on earth a young QB could go is to Cleveland.
Not excusing Manziel at all at this point.. he has blown it enough on his own. But you have to ask who was there to take him under their wing and lead... what was the plan to bring him along? He needed (anyone developing QB will need) more than Cleveland can provide. When an offensive linemen is about the only guy you even might name as a leader... red flag.
Manziel's clear part in this aside, he isn't the first and won't be the last high draft pick QB to come in and fail as a Brown.
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Yeah that may be true. The most successful out of 4 first round QBs in the expansion era has been Tim Couch. This is part of an organizational failure.
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pantherclub
Footballguy
amnesiac
beer is good
this was discussed about 30 pages ago, but Gronk produces on Sundays. HTH.
Chaka
Footballguy
This is fascinating. If only most people would live according to the standard they hold famous strangers to this would be a much better world.
Please keep going on about how the 22 year old millionaire isn't living up to your own high standards that I am certain you meticulously adhere to regardless of how much you are paid.
Please keep going on about how the 22 year old millionaire isn't living up to your own high standards that I am certain you meticulously adhere to regardless of how much you are paid.
Das Boot
Footballguy
I think the problem is that he's not living up to his employer's requirements.
And they're the ones that made him a millionaire.
Willie Neslon
Footballguy
I honestly feel like Pettine is using Manziel to come off like a no nonsense Belichick type. He's hated the guy since day one. Look how tough I am, i won't stand for stuff like this. My way or the highway. The difference is Belichick would never open his yapper about it the way Pettine does. Moves would be made and that would be that. See Moss, Randy. Instead Pettine grandstands and tells everyone who'll listen how disappointed he is and how he doesn't stand for that kind of behavior. I remember Pettine from the Jets Hard Knocks. He didn't come off well. Didn't seem like head coach material. I have a feeling if if everyone recorded his every move when he was 22 there'd be a bunch of embarrassing video out there. That doesn't mean Manziel isn't a clown but maybe he isn't the only clown in the room when the two of them get together.
Chaka
Footballguy
The people passing judgement in this thread own the Browns? Sorry, didn't realize I was posting with so many aristocrats.
mr roboto
Footballguy
When did you become so snarky?
Chaka
Footballguy
Tonight around 8 pm Pacific time I guess.
Sorry. My sincere response, which I guess I have a reputation for, is that I just find it so funny when guys like us, yes us, become so judgmental about people that we honestly have no ability to identify with on any level. We love to talk about what we would have done under x, y, z circumstances but the truth is that we have no idea how we would have responded but that doesn't stop us from passing judgment. The history of the NFL is littered with talented guys who didn't live up to their physical ability for whatever reason but we always treat the flavor of the month as if it were some kind of unique situation. Frankly I find the judgment more of an indictment of the poster than I do of the player being judged.
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Capella
Footballguy
I'll let you in on a secret. They're using all this as evidence to void his contract and get signing bonus money back. Everything you see is grandstanding.Also, they're doing that because he's terrible. If he were Favre or Elway as you alluded to, he could play with a Miller Light in his ####ing hand.
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one of the worst analogies of all time. bonds was never washed up. look at his final year. led the league in walks, 28 hr and 1045 ops. the league and owners colluded to keep him out of baseball. perhaps that is indeed similar to manziel in that he is not getting a fair shot either.JuniorNB said:
Chaka
Footballguy
I guarantee that, if Manziel is cut from Cle, he will end up with another team quick, fast and in a hurry. Probably Dallas, which makes the Hardy talk that much more entertaining.
Riversco
Footballguy
If the Browns release him, there will a long line of teams waiting to sign him. At age 22, he's got room to grow. He develops a little more and he would be an upgrade for the Rams, Eagles, 49ers, Broncos, Chiefs, Jets, and Texans. Its such a QB hungry league I think one of those teams will give him a shot.
The Chiefs would be intriguing because rumor has it that Andy Reid was going to select him until the Browns leapfrogged 1 spot ahead of the Chiefs to grab him.
But, I think that's where manziel goes if they get rid of him. He'll go to KC.
The Chiefs would be intriguing because rumor has it that Andy Reid was going to select him until the Browns leapfrogged 1 spot ahead of the Chiefs to grab him.
But, I think that's where manziel goes if they get rid of him. He'll go to KC.
Chaka
Footballguy
I guess it depends if it is by choice or by waivers.
By choice I'm betting on Dallas vs the field. By waivers, Dallas still has a good shot, but it's more of a crap shoot.
I'd agree if he got cut he'd end up with another team quickly and he'd actually make more money because his next two years on his Browns contract is guaranteed. Not sure what offset language is in his contract but he'd make more money anyway on the open market, which is why I don't think he gets cut. I don't think he ever plays another snap for the Browns but I think they'll be able to trade him for a 6th-7th round pick.
I'm sure most of you think he's not tradeable but even middling back up QB's make more money then he has left on his contract the next two years. And sure some teams would not view him as backup material but enough will and some will believe it's possible to groom him into something more. Any team that acquired him would be on the hook for two years and a total of about $2.46 million. That's a bargain even if he was never more than a backup. To put that into perspective that's not even Bruce Gradkowski money.
I have a hard time believing that rumor. or any rumor that anyone else would have taken him that high.
