pantherclub
Footballguy
wow. Talk about missing the entire point.
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Official Johnny Manziel Thread (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Unless you know something I don't, he's never been in trouble or reprimanded by the coaching staff for banging a hot woman.
I stated upthread that Jameis Winston was a similar knucklehead to Manziel. Both are the same age. One saw his opportunity and took his job seriously. He prospering in the pros. The other still wants to be a frat boy. He's one strike away from being out of football.
As for me being a jealous curmudgeon, I love Gronkowski, and he's out partying and pulling more tail than any of us. Try again. sport.
LOLOL I feel like I'm talking to a 14 year old who's bummed out because the Manziel Fathead on his bedroom wall won't be as cool to his fellow 9th graders if Manziel gets cut.
I probably 'party' as much as Manziel does. But I don't get in screaming fights and get physical with my girlfriend on the side of the road. Or get asked to leave prestigious sports camps because I act like a child. Hit me up on PM and we can go out and hit the town. I do things that would make Manziel blush.
McGarnicle
Footballguy
I want him to go to Dallas so bad. Probably won't happen.
tone1oc
Footballguy
JuniorNB.. You have no clue what Jameis Winston is doing in his personal life, so please stop with the he turned it around narrative. And what did Cam do that was so bad? Maybe take money for playing football?
What if Johnny still goes out on his personal time, avoiding TMZ, while (still) doing nothing illegal and leads the Browns to 2-1 record and plays well down the stretch? You'd probably be in here congratulating him for turning his life around and finally seeing your light!!!
Back to football, Pettine is not making a decision on what is best for the team. That is his only job, and he continually fails at it.
What if Johnny still goes out on his personal time, avoiding TMZ, while (still) doing nothing illegal and leads the Browns to 2-1 record and plays well down the stretch? You'd probably be in here congratulating him for turning his life around and finally seeing your light!!!
Back to football, Pettine is not making a decision on what is best for the team. That is his only job, and he continually fails at it.
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I've heard that Winston is the first on the practice field and last to leave the facility because he's studying game plans and film. He's also turned a bad Tampa Bay team into a contender and, as far as I know, hasn't roughed his girlfriend up on the side of the road. Maybe you know otherwise?
If Manziel finished the season 2-1 and went that entire three weeks without being filmed with a bottle of booze in his hand and no videos surfaced of him talking with police officers along the side of the road, I would say that MAYBE this last benching helped and he's finally getting it. Until then, he is what we thought he was.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
tone1oc
Footballguy
Not suprising you've been hating on him since before his college career was over.. LOL
Personal Vendetta'd
I've just seen guys like him come and go. I stay consistent. Also, looks like I'm right on schedule with my prediction. Thanks for the bump man!
Now check out the Winston thread. Before the draft, I said he'd be a failure because he was also an immature bonehead. I've changed my tune because he grew up and is taking his opportunity seriously.
McGarnicle
Footballguy
tone1oc
Footballguy
Clearly I'm a Trump supporter, because I'm really advocating for overzealous fascists ITT
No, I'm not a dinosaur.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
The Browns have to play Manziel to see what they have. Foolish not to. They could have stated that they hope that his demotion for one week was a strong message. Cleveland is a mess on the field, on the sidelines, and in the front office.
tone1oc
Footballguy
If only Manziel wouldn't of gone out on his bye week, he'd have the whole organization turned around like Jamies Winston. A model citizen who likely raped someone, but rose above it and has turned his personal life around by being good at football.
tone1oc
Footballguy
Right, I get that you (and many) attribute on field success as some kind of barometer for how good of a person someone is outside of their sporting life. You do not know these people.
Jamies, like a lot of other pro athletes- is a scumbag. And while you try and apply your moral high ground to Manziel it doesn't really hold up, because again all YOU care about is on the field performance. The fact is that Manziel was playing pretty well before he was benched for no reason other than a coach's pride.
But none of that matters, because you are a part of the crowd that makes TMZ rich by following around certain buzzworthy celebs because they provoke interest.
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Playing pretty well? He had a lot of yards in a blowout loss to Pittsburgh and led them to....9 points. Whoa. That's great.
And if Manziel was the talent that Winston is and was as dedicated to learning as Winston is, the Browns would no doubt cut him more slack. Do you know why the Cowboys cut Christian Michael but kept Greg Hardy? Both are distractions. Both are locker room cancers. It's simple. Because Greg Hardy is one of the league's best pass rushers and CMike has never been good enough to even get major playing time. Yes, it's a sad fact that you get a longer leash if you're a better player. I don't make the rules. But they've been around forever. The fact that Manziel was specifically told not to be out acting like a frat boy over the bye week, but simply couldn't resist, PLUS came back and flat out lied to his coach, tells you all you need to know about the guy. That doesn't cut it when your career high point is throwing for 300 yards in a 21 point loss.
tone1oc
Footballguy
Winston is a much better QB now and as a prospect. If I'm drafting a human being though, I'll take the frat boy over the rapist.
You are trying to have it both ways.. On one had you are condemning a player for not doing things off the field that you agree with, while at the same time adulating or at least condoning others (and far larger dirtbags) because they can play.
In your world personal condemnation only comes if you are not excelling on the field, which is why you supporting Pettine's crusade for righteousness is just asinine.
tone1oc
Footballguy
And again, back to football...
You can short change Manziel's improved play and conclude that he isn't any good. Fair enough. But the Browns are an NFL team with a 1st round pick invested and have been completely incompetent in every aspect of the organization. You have to see what you have with Manziel. It's a business decision, not a personal one as Pettine (which you laud) has made it.
You can short change Manziel's improved play and conclude that he isn't any good. Fair enough. But the Browns are an NFL team with a 1st round pick invested and have been completely incompetent in every aspect of the organization. You have to see what you have with Manziel. It's a business decision, not a personal one as Pettine (which you laud) has made it.
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I still don't like Winston off the field. I think he's a bozo. Not sure I'm buying the whole rape thing though. I don't know enough about it to condemn him for it. I absolutely hate Greg hardy. And he's a great player. So your theory is wrong. I'm just trying to explain to you how it works on the pro level. If you arent a great player, you are going to get very little slack with your conduct. It's really that simple.
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tone1oc
Footballguy
Funny how you aren't "buying" the rape thing, but are able to real off a list of frivilous things Johnny Manziel has done going back to when he was a teenager. Look man, you clearly have a personal issue with him that is beyond football.
You started this exchange off by stating your distain for players who think they are above the rules, and lauded Pettine for having morals. At this point in the exchange you have proved my point, that there are no morals in football and its a business.
The correct business move is to see what you have with Manziel, who has been bad to underwhelming to decent with flashes in a not very large sample set. Taking into account that most talent evaluators thought he'd have to develop his game it shouldn't be a surprise that he hasn't lit it up in 6 or 7 (??) games he's played. He's showed some degree of promise, something that is wholly lacking with the Browns.
Gawain
Footballguy
You should meet AZ Ron. Maybe you could find someone new to love.I love Gronkowski, and he's out partying and pulling more tail than any of us. Try again. sport.
tone1oc
Footballguy
Manziel will be crushing life beyond the NFL even if he doesn't pan out as a QB. Pettine is a loser who will need to find work in a few weeks. Manziel is laughing at Pettine, along with most of the team likely.
yeah yeah. We all know that Johnny daddy is an oil tycoon. He'll be just fine. If that means crushing life, then I guess he will be.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
hope Jerry Jones makes an offseason play and gets Manziel back to Texas and in a Cowboys uniform ...
dipandglide
Footballguy
well said
The Browns are idiots. Get over thew whole ego BS, play the kid, and then trade or cut him. I feel bad for Browns fans.
McGarnicle
Footballguy
DallasDMac
Footballguy
Exactly. You are doing NOTHING but wasting game time playing Davis. It's moronic. It is... The Browns.
Crazy thought here... What if Austin Davis is actually really good and has a chance to be the franchise qb? Maybe it's less about punishing Johnny and more about recognizing who the more talented player is. Reminds me more of when Russell Wilson started over big money signing Matt Flynn. Or cousins over rg3. Forget where guys were drafted or how much they are getting paid, you put the guy in who has the best ability to win. Davis looked good last year in St. Louis and showed pretty well on Monday night. I think it's the right move.
MAC_32
Footballguy
his numbers under pressure are pretty terrible.
sbonomo
Footballguy
manziels and dez
....at least one of them has talent. If you cant guess the other is white.Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Weird. You call him a mental midget and unintelligent. When he might simply be an addict. Plenty of really really bright addicts. Bizarre that you are mixing the two issues together.
I'[m not mixing the two. I realize there's a difference. Manziel was out boozing (and then lied about it) the week after finally achieving his dream and being named the starter. After being specifically instructed not to. He's unintelligent.
dhockster
Footballguy
Another thing: Mike Pettine being a bad coach and Johnny Manziel being a bad QB are not mutually exclusive. Both can (and appear to) be true. So let's stop with the "Johnny's a victim because he plays for a bad coach" or "Pettine's hands are tied because Johnny is such an #####". Both of them appear to be over their heads at the NFL level.
Now some of you will say we won't know if Johnny is over his head until he gets his chance. Well, part of succeeding in life is doing the things you need to do to get a chance. Johnny hasn't done those things yet.
Now some of you will say we won't know if Johnny is over his head until he gets his chance. Well, part of succeeding in life is doing the things you need to do to get a chance. Johnny hasn't done those things yet.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I think Pettine has been using Johnny to keep attention off his failing defense, undisciplined team, and uncanny ability to find ways to lose games. To some degree it's worked.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
tone1oc
Footballguy
I have been defending Johnny ITT, but not for once second do I think that Pettine has impeded his ability on the field other than keeping him off it of it for ego and frivolous reasons. At least not anymore than what Pettine is doing to effect the whole team's performance in being bad as a HC. I agree with MAC_32, Pettine is doing this stuff to distract from his piss poor performance.
Also, I realize that Manziel may not be a very good QB, and for a while it looked like he was over his head in the NFL. His most recent play, he looked a lot more composed (relative) and seemed to be improving, which is what you want to see from a prospect that you invested high draft capital in. If you take away his name and persona, that is what he is- a prospect. That was true when they drafted him, and that is true now. You have to play the kid.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
You are mixing the two. You're assuming it means he is dumb. But he might be simply an addict. That is the behavior of an addict. I know plenty of really, really bright people who have done very similar things as Manziel.
What a convenient crutch. Ok, so he's an addict instead of a moron and a liar. Either way, Cleveland is wise to cut bait.
tone1oc
Footballguy
I'd agree that the addict vs screw-up argument is kind of silly. I just don't think that his partying ways contribute to his on field performance as much as people want to believe. I feel like we are too quick to say that he's not getting his work in because he enjoys his free time. For all we know he could be hitting the books harder than the liquor. And all the film/book study or whatever else he should be doing as a "professional" during a weekend night on a bye week pale in comparison to on the field experience/evaluation.
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Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
JNB: I would cut him too, for whichever reason you prefer.
I'd cut him for neither of those reasons. I'd cut him because he's not a good quarterback and he's more of a distraction than a help. Real simple.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
I'd cut him for all 3 reasons.
I'd ask this question: what difference does it really make, to the Browns, if/how well Manziel can actually play QB? They already know what they have: an immature, unprofessional, unfocused, possible addict that they can't trust.
If they give him some meaningless starts here at the end of 2015, and he plays well, then what? Is the trust going to be magically re-established? Are they suddenly going to feel comfortable with him being the starting QB and the face of the franchise?
If the answer is no (and I think that it is), then there's no more "seeing what you have" left to do.
The good thing is, the Browns don't need to list a reason. They can just cut him. Although they won't have to. Dallas will actually give them a draft pick for him.I'd cut him for all 3 reasons.
