SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I thought Jeffery was getting golden numbers, 12/4/85/0 instead.
The 9ers defense have been better since they don't have K'nick around to gift the other side possessions.
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Official Johnny Manziel Thread (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
The 9ers defense have been better since they don't have K'nick around to gift the other side possessions.
And I'm just saying that he's now back under center and facing the 27th pass defense in the league. Time to put up or shut up. No more talk about the mean, nasty coach or his weak receivers. This is what a few of you have been clamoring for and he has his chance.
Random
Footballguy
Oh, thats all you're saying? I agree, lets see what he does over the next 4 games before we judge his NFL QB capabilities.
Peak
Footballguy
Is this because teams are running the ball at will over the defense? I don't have the stats in front of me, but a serious question. Passing defense may be getting a boost from a solid rushing attack.
ETA: Did a quick search and found this:
SF Run Def ranked 27th, giving up an average of 165yds/game over the last three games
Avg Rushing yards given on the year is 125.
Doesn't sound like the Pass Defense is all that great, more like teams resolve to pound them throughout the game. They may pass to keep them honest, but not an up and coming defense from what I can see.
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Yeah, that's all I'm saying. I didn't ask for some outrageous yardage total or 4 touchdowns. Improve. Show he's not just treading water. If Pittsburgh was his best game, build on that. And most importantly let's see him stay off of TMZ the next few weeks.Oh, thats all you're saying? I agree, lets see what he does over the next 4 games before we judge his NFL QB capabilities.
tone1oc
Footballguy
FYI.. In his 3 starts this year he's completely exactly 60% of his passes with 4 TDs & 1 INT. He's also shown much better (still needs improving) at reading through progressions.
ETA: Also averaging 237.3 yds/game, for comparison Winston is averaging 239.8 yds/game
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I don't have splits or anything, but on the season, they are 28th in total yards per game against at 395.1. 27th in passing yards against at 269.9. And 22nd worst at 3rd Down percentage against at 40%. And it's in Cleveland. Couldn't have picked a better game for him to comeback. Hopefully he watches some film this week andtakes this seriously.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Just taking a quick glance at team defensive stats.
Only 8 of the 32 NFL teams are allowing under 60% completion rates to opposing QBs and those defenses who aren't surrendering a 60% completion rate have a good pass rush which SF lacks.
If Manziel completes 60% of his passes against SF who is surrendering a 68.2% completion rate (3rd worst in the NFL), its not a great sign its below average to what they are giving up.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/passing/position/defense
I think it would be better to frame it that Manziel does not come close to reaching a 60% completion rate and/or having a positive TD to INT ratio that it would have to considered a bad sign facing one of the worst pass defenses in the league.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
A good game for Manziel would be 200 yards passing, 2 TDs, and not turning the ball over.
Cleveland needs for Manziel to be a good QB. The city deserves better than the team that is on the field now. The QB situation has been a joke.
Cleveland needs for Manziel to be a good QB. The city deserves better than the team that is on the field now. The QB situation has been a joke.
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Random
Footballguy
I've asked you this a few times (and maybe I missed your answer) but what is this based on?
60%, more touchdowns than interceptions, looking at more than just his first read before panicking and taking off, and a team win.
I'm changing nothing. Never moved the bar at all. You seem confused.
tone1oc
Footballguy
60% completion rate: check
More TDs than INTs: check
Better pocket presence: check
So you'd agree that he's been pretty good relatively?
ETA: Also is 1-2 (33%) as the starter, team is 1-9 (11%) without him.
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I'm talking about his big second chance against San Francisco.
And, no. I don't think he's been pretty good. When you're crowning achievement is scoring 9 points in a game where your team gets destroyed, you have a helluva ways to go before anyone should ever use the term 'relatively good'. He has a very winnable game coming up. At home. If he can make it till Sunday without boozing, let's see how he does against the Niners.
tone1oc
Footballguy
tone1oc
Footballguy
He's not typing with reason, he's typing with vitriol. Lets be honest here, if JFF went out and finished the year 3-1, passing for ~250 yds with 2:1 TD to INT ratio he'd still be in here hating all over the place.
How am I moving the bar? I was never talking about his past statistics. I said he's has a perfect opponent to come back against. They're 27th in the league against the pass, and Manziel gets to play at home. You said "What would be a stat line that you'd consider good?". I said 60% completions, more TDs than interceptions, going through his progressions before instinctually talking off, and getting a victory. Please show me where I 'moved the bar'. I've said the same thing four time snow.
WHOOSH!
Wrong. That would be improvement. And would probably get him brought back next season. Assuming he stays out of trouble.
tone1oc
Footballguy
But he's already doing that this season (save for 1-2 record) and you think he sucks? What is the difference?
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
SF's pass defense is terrible but some other things to consider to put things into a finer context.
BROWNS INJURED WR CORPS
Browns WR corps has been devastated by injury. They were without WR Andrew Hawkins and WR Taylor Gabriel yesterday and had to activate practice squad WR Dareus Jennings who made his first NFL appearance in a regular season game but then they lost WR Travis Benjamin who was the only deep threat on the team AND they lost WR Marlin Moore. Oh and late in the game WR Brian Hartline also got hurt leaving Dareus Jennings as the ONLY HEALTHY WR on the team at one point (Hartline limped back into the game in the 4th quarter).
Hartline is hurting and probably isn't 100%. Benjamin might not play Sunday and if he does he may not be 100%. The coaches have only played WR Dwayne Bowe in one game but they might have to use him and they just re-signed WR Terrell Pryor but didn't activate him yesterday preffering to have 28 defenders to only 18 offensive players active which is mind boggling but back to point.
UPDATES:
Scott Petrak ct @ScottPetrak 21s21 seconds ago
#Browns CBs Joe Haden, Justin Gilbert and WRs Andrew Hawkins, Taylor Gabriel remain in concussion protocol
Mary Kay Cabot @MaryKayCabot 56s56 seconds ago
#Browns WR Moore X-rays on ribs negative; WR Benjamin (shoulder) day to day; FB Malcolm Johnson (groin) could be serious
BROWNS TERRIBLE RUSHING ATTACK
The Browns also have the worst rushing attack in the league. They just don't run and when they do they are just bad.
BROWNS TERRIBLE DEFENSE
The defense sucks. The ONE WIN that Manziel had came against rookie QB Marcus Mariota who was making his 2nd NFL start and he looked bad. It was the only game the Browns defense actually had a pass rush. I don't think Blaine Gabbert is much better so that should work in favor of the defense.
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I don't see how the coaches can sit Dwayne Bowe. He 'should' be an improvement over smurph WRs Hawkins and Gabriel. That could benefit Manziel. The running game got 'somewhat' untracked yesterday with Crow so that should also help. Playing at home against the Niners who come east for the second week in a row helps. The defense facing Blaine Gabbert, one of the worst QBs they've faced, should also help Manziel.
So for as many issues starting against SF is the perfect storm for Johnny outside of losing starting OG Joel Bitonio many things work in his favor.
If he continues to start after Sunday then the sledding gets much harder facing, @SEA, @KC, and PIT. So nothing gets decided no matter how he performs Sunday.
BROWNS INJURED WR CORPS
Browns WR corps has been devastated by injury. They were without WR Andrew Hawkins and WR Taylor Gabriel yesterday and had to activate practice squad WR Dareus Jennings who made his first NFL appearance in a regular season game but then they lost WR Travis Benjamin who was the only deep threat on the team AND they lost WR Marlin Moore. Oh and late in the game WR Brian Hartline also got hurt leaving Dareus Jennings as the ONLY HEALTHY WR on the team at one point (Hartline limped back into the game in the 4th quarter).
Hartline is hurting and probably isn't 100%. Benjamin might not play Sunday and if he does he may not be 100%. The coaches have only played WR Dwayne Bowe in one game but they might have to use him and they just re-signed WR Terrell Pryor but didn't activate him yesterday preffering to have 28 defenders to only 18 offensive players active which is mind boggling but back to point.
UPDATES:
Scott Petrak ct @ScottPetrak 21s21 seconds ago
#Browns CBs Joe Haden, Justin Gilbert and WRs Andrew Hawkins, Taylor Gabriel remain in concussion protocol
Mary Kay Cabot @MaryKayCabot 56s56 seconds ago
#Browns WR Moore X-rays on ribs negative; WR Benjamin (shoulder) day to day; FB Malcolm Johnson (groin) could be serious
BROWNS TERRIBLE RUSHING ATTACK
The Browns also have the worst rushing attack in the league. They just don't run and when they do they are just bad.
BROWNS TERRIBLE DEFENSE
The defense sucks. The ONE WIN that Manziel had came against rookie QB Marcus Mariota who was making his 2nd NFL start and he looked bad. It was the only game the Browns defense actually had a pass rush. I don't think Blaine Gabbert is much better so that should work in favor of the defense.
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I don't see how the coaches can sit Dwayne Bowe. He 'should' be an improvement over smurph WRs Hawkins and Gabriel. That could benefit Manziel. The running game got 'somewhat' untracked yesterday with Crow so that should also help. Playing at home against the Niners who come east for the second week in a row helps. The defense facing Blaine Gabbert, one of the worst QBs they've faced, should also help Manziel.
So for as many issues starting against SF is the perfect storm for Johnny outside of losing starting OG Joel Bitonio many things work in his favor.
If he continues to start after Sunday then the sledding gets much harder facing, @SEA, @KC, and PIT. So nothing gets decided no matter how he performs Sunday.
He's completing 59% of his passes. The 5:2 TD/Int ratio is good. He's been sacked 14 times in 128 attempts. That's not good. He's also fumbled 5 times, losing three of them. That's not good. That's the kind of thing that happens when you panic and stop going through your progressions. Which comes from not being football smart. He doesn't see his first progression get open, and he pulls the ball down and creates a broken play. This is where the sacks and fumbles are coming from. Studying film and learning the art of quarterbacking, instead of spending his free time with a bottle of Bacardi in his hand and listening to the latest techno, is how that can be accomplished. THAT is what Petine (and whoever his next coach) is looking for.tone1oc said:
I'll be interested to see how he does in these four games. Maybe he can change my mind.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Mary Kay Cabot @MaryKayCabot 8m8 minutes ago
#Browns Mike Pettine said 4 more starts enough to know what have in Manziel: "It's a 1/4 of a season.Already have a sense, football stndpt''
Nate Ulrich @NateUlrichABJ 12m12 minutes ago
#Browns HC Mike Pettine said WRs Dwayne Bowe and Terrelle Pryor could be active Sunday, still fluid. Both were inactive yesterday.
#Browns Mike Pettine said 4 more starts enough to know what have in Manziel: "It's a 1/4 of a season.Already have a sense, football stndpt''
Nate Ulrich @NateUlrichABJ 12m12 minutes ago
#Browns HC Mike Pettine said WRs Dwayne Bowe and Terrelle Pryor could be active Sunday, still fluid. Both were inactive yesterday.
tone1oc
Footballguy
ffldrew
Footballguy
beef
Footballguy
Cheesedawg
Footballguy
Nice to see his judgement is still top notch
habsfan
Footballguy
The bottom line for me is that a lot of people see a bad team, a franchise that is setting the benchmark for futility and amidst this, you see a guy in Manziel who's just in way too good a mood and having way more fun than he should be. Peyton Manning wouldn't be walking around with a ####-eating grin on his face in this situation. Tom Brady would be acting like there'd been a death in the family. Russell Wilson wouldn't be partying and flashing money signs or saying he's "blessed".
That's what people want. They want him to carry himself like a guy who's done very little, proved nothing and is (metaphorically speaking) the sales manager for a company that is bottom quartile in sales versus its competition. In other words, wipe that grin off his face and at least pretend he's miserable about it all.
NeverEnough
Footballguy
So what does this do for Barnidge?
Like I've said all along, he's just an idiot who doesn't get it. He was in trouble for making money signing autographs on college. That's why he came off as a defiant, smug jerk when he'd do his dumb money signs. Once he went to rehab, he said he's leaving that money sign nonsense in the past. He finally gets named starter again after boozing and lying and blowing his last opportunity, and out of the thousands of possible pictures he could have chosen to post of himself on his birthday, he chose that one. He is never going to figure it out. He's never going to outgrow the need to thumb his nose at authority. And he's never going to be intelligent enough to stay in the league.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Pure luck? He could do something vs SF. If you watch Manziek it's totally up in the air what Manziel will do, he doesn't follow reads or the gameplan. Vs Seattle & KC, no thanks. I'd like Barnidge better if Benjamin is out but it looks like he will play. Duke's & Crowell's value is likely gone. Only player IMO with a real chance is Benjamin who could get the deep TD.
That was his agent telling him to post something to show that he's not out doing blow and boozing it up.
And I didn't call for another benching or any discipline. Not a big deal really. Just saying that it goes to show you that the guy still doesn't get it. Kind of like when Jameis Winston posted a picture of himself eating crab legs after he got drafted. Not a big deal. But it was still a big F.U. to those who gave him crap because of his stealing.
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Peyton Marino
Footballguy
now we roll
Chaka
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
I would be willing to bet any amount of money that Manziel wasn't the only Browns starter that week to hit up a club of some sort and imbibe of a fermented beverage.
ffldrew
Footballguy
Agree on the above - as a Barnidge owner - when I've watched him in action he runs more of these quick straight routes over the middle and turns around quickly to "post" up the D. Manziel is too short and can't see him over the LOS and deliver the ball there easily. He needs to move out of the pocket and get throwing lanes. If they came up with the "Kubiak" play action rollouts with the tight end in the flat then maybe Barnidge would be really effective. But I haven't see that in the playbook for the Browns and you also need a running game to sell that play action something the Browns lack as well. Then there is the fact that Manziel just goes rogue all too often and then he looks way down field to Benjamin. He just can't throw across the field to Barnidge short as that is a recipe for INTs.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Should be good news for Travis Benjamin. He's not expected to miss any time per Ian Rappaport, and Manziel has hooked up with him 3-4 times on 40+ TDs.
I would also bet that Josh Gordon wasn't the only Brown to drink alcohol the last time he got suspended for it. That's irrelevant.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/12/browns_mike_pettine_your_build.html
- I think we can say absolutely that part of the conflict is over Manziel. Part of the beauty of this guy is the added disruption he has brought to what was already a dysfunctional situation.
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And that will be anywhere he ends up. The Tebow-effect. But for the opposite reason.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
I am rolling with Barnidge. I really do not have a better option. Cleveland's running game stinks so they will have to throw the ball. Barnidge is the best receiver in Cleveland. Manziel does not really read defenses or throw the ball to where he should but he should throw a few Barnidges way.SaintsInDome2006 said:
I think Barnidge should still be ok. There are routes where he is the primary receiver. It's after that where the targets gets iffy. It kills Duke Johnson because all those dumpoffs become Manziel scrambles/sacks/or runs. But Benjamin and Barnidge should still be good plays against the 27th ranked pass defense.
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
JuniorNB,
You are setting it up where no matter what Manziel does this week it won't be enough. If he does well you will play the he only did it because it was against the 27th ranked defence. You will follow that up by let's see what he does vs a real defence in Seattle.
You are setting it up where no matter what Manziel does this week it won't be enough. If he does well you will play the he only did it because it was against the 27th ranked defence. You will follow that up by let's see what he does vs a real defence in Seattle.
