sho nuff
Footballguy
Was he the head coach? Nope.
Oh, and Pierce never had a year like Lacy or CJ the year prior. That 2.9 yards per carry in 2013 were nowhere close to what the others did.
Pretty bad example there.
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CJ Anderson (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter JetMaxx
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Oh, and Pierce never had a year like Lacy or CJ the year prior. That 2.9 yards per carry in 2013 were nowhere close to what the others did.
Pretty bad example there.
bostonfred
Footballguy
You asked how it's cherry picking, then gave a very specific and detailed range if comparisons you'd look at. That's fine as a debate tactic, but it's not science.
Zac Stacy? Kubiak wasn't the coach.
Hey what about Bernard pierce? Kubiak was just the coordinator not the head coach.
Ok, Steve slaton? He was better in 2008 than 2009, so it doesn't count.
Cherry picking is exactly what you're doing - using contrived criteria to mount the sample size to show data that supports your predetermined conclusion.
If you want examples of running backs that played well under one coach then list their job under another, you can get those. If you want examples of backs who had a hot second half then disappeared the following year, there's plenty of examples of those. I listed a ton of examples of comps you could use, but you have narrowed the focus to things that support your point, and argue with people who try to expand the scope.
And even that's fine, if you have a specific reason to narrow the scope to certain types of comparison. But you have to acknowledge the other points. You might say "starting out cold after a red hot end to the season is fine, and even though this specific coach has been known to change running backs, he mostly did it as an offensive coordinator". Or something like that.
Zac Stacy? Kubiak wasn't the coach.
Hey what about Bernard pierce? Kubiak was just the coordinator not the head coach.
Ok, Steve slaton? He was better in 2008 than 2009, so it doesn't count.
Cherry picking is exactly what you're doing - using contrived criteria to mount the sample size to show data that supports your predetermined conclusion.
If you want examples of running backs that played well under one coach then list their job under another, you can get those. If you want examples of backs who had a hot second half then disappeared the following year, there's plenty of examples of those. I listed a ton of examples of comps you could use, but you have narrowed the focus to things that support your point, and argue with people who try to expand the scope.
And even that's fine, if you have a specific reason to narrow the scope to certain types of comparison. But you have to acknowledge the other points. You might say "starting out cold after a red hot end to the season is fine, and even though this specific coach has been known to change running backs, he mostly did it as an offensive coordinator". Or something like that.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Contrived criteria.
How was Pierce's numbers in 2013 anywhere close to what CJ did last year or Lacy his first year?
I'm talking about comparing similar things rather than things that simply are not close.
Now, coaching changes definitely make it different as well...no doubt.
How was Pierce's numbers in 2013 anywhere close to what CJ did last year or Lacy his first year?
I'm talking about comparing similar things rather than things that simply are not close.
Now, coaching changes definitely make it different as well...no doubt.
Shutout
Footballguy
For anyone that wants to discuss CJ Anderson, I think tonight is going to be very interesting IF Hillman plays really well.
This could shape up to be the classic "we are going to give Anderson time to get completely healthy" pitch and then he never gets back to being the cowbell.
To me, this extends far past Anderson. The Broncos have questions to answer right now about their level of play. ABout their O-line, about their QB, about their TE, their RB.
IF (Just saying IF) Peyton is really not the same guy anymore and/or IF that line simply can't protect him for the long plays, then the Broncos are going to have use Hillman more as a quick check-off guy and that probably means more Jordan Norwood also if they can't get more from their TE than what they have shown so far (very early, but in the past against the Steelers and Ravens, Manning usually utilized his TEs heavily).
This could shape up to be the classic "we are going to give Anderson time to get completely healthy" pitch and then he never gets back to being the cowbell.
To me, this extends far past Anderson. The Broncos have questions to answer right now about their level of play. ABout their O-line, about their QB, about their TE, their RB.
IF (Just saying IF) Peyton is really not the same guy anymore and/or IF that line simply can't protect him for the long plays, then the Broncos are going to have use Hillman more as a quick check-off guy and that probably means more Jordan Norwood also if they can't get more from their TE than what they have shown so far (very early, but in the past against the Steelers and Ravens, Manning usually utilized his TEs heavily).
Buck Bradcanon
Footballguy
cowbell
Dizzy
Footballguy
Squintz82
Footballguy
The Denver Post's Troy Renck said C.J. Anderson (questionable, toe) will likely lose carries to Ronnie Hillman this week.
"Anderson's less than 100 percent on this short week," Renck said, "logic says he will lose some carries to Ronnie Hillman based on how Hillman has played in the preseason and against the Ravens." Anderson is fully expected to play Thursday night, but there is certainly a chance he is limited after a disappointing Week 1 performance. Anderson is more of an RB2 this week.
"Anderson's less than 100 percent on this short week," Renck said, "logic says he will lose some carries to Ronnie Hillman based on how Hillman has played in the preseason and against the Ravens." Anderson is fully expected to play Thursday night, but there is certainly a chance he is limited after a disappointing Week 1 performance. Anderson is more of an RB2 this week.
Shutout
Footballguy
LOL. I always say that backwards. But, hey, I'm not beyond laughing at myself. I gotta have more cowbell!!
biju
Footballguy
Looks like I need to dust off my negotiation skills then. I suspect there will be many Anderson owners panicking on Monday morning...
Seekay
Footballguy
An Yet I thought Anderson said he was gonna prove the critics wrong this week. Gonna be hard to do that from the bench
thatguythere
Footballguy
Does anyone really think Hillman can carry CJ's workload? I'll give him 1.5 games and he will be hurt.
I own them both, and I think today's news renders them both useless @ KC. Going to be tough call.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
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thatguythere
Footballguy
Nothing against him, I just don't think he is big enough to hold up. Save the comparisons to other NFL back his size. Just my opinion.
cstu
Footballguy
skinsrule05
Footballguy
Do you remember who this was said about last year, Forsett. The whole time as Forsett started eating into Pierce's carries people were saying Forsett can't handle the full load. Look what happened.
gethugefast1
Footballguy
dagwood
Footballguy
Hillman is the better back. CJ owners should move him now while he still has value.
IheartGuinness
Footballguy
Ah, my first "damned if you do, dammed if you don't" scenario of the season. I bench him, he'll go off. I start him, he'll do nothing. How I've missed these....
addicted2ff
Footballguy
What kind of value do you guys think CJ has at the moment? What round would you draft him in today?
Shutout
Footballguy
For me, it's more a matter of how he would be used if it does come to be. If Hillman gains a prominent role, I think its a combination of things like I mentioned above and it likely means they are screening and checking down a lot more and not running a lot in the way we think if Anderson is in there.
VikingFrog
Footballguy
One thing is for certain. There is going to be a lot of crowing in this thread after tonight's game.
15 for 89 yards and 2 TDs is my prediction.
For CJ
15 for 89 yards and 2 TDs is my prediction.
For CJ
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ImTheScientist
Footballguy
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Capella
Footballguy
Round 3. I am trying to buy. Offered Luck and Yeldon for CJ and Big Ben. Think it's gonna take.Also, I have Hillman so that helps.
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thatguythere
Footballguy
I hope you are right, he's still in my lineup until I see where his status after warmups.
thatguythere
Footballguy
Well see, the whole problem is you want argue about it. I don't. I told you I don't think he will hold up because of his size.
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Uhhhh I hate this. I am starting CJ. For me it's between CJ and either Markus Wheaton or David Johnson.
I think I will regret not starting Wheaton.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
I'm always leery of toe injuries and shoulder injuries for RBs. You can't hide or adjust around either one of them, and they are exposed to additional injury every play.
Seekay
Footballguy
VikingFrog
Footballguy
LawFitz
Footballguy
I have zero confidence in Hillman's ability to stay healthy if he starts getting feature touches for an extended period. He has fantastic straight line acceleration, but his lateral agility and natural instinct to slip big hits is nowhere near that of Jamaal Chuck and prime CJ2K.
geez, i don't know man. I have that option too, but can't find a single expert that ranks DW anywhere near CJ.
I get that, just saying that the collective wisdom of every single expert doesn't see that happening again this week. We all know it certainly could. If it does, I'll bet that the experts start changing their minds.
gethugefast1
Footballguy
Dizzy
Footballguy
I'm no expert, but I would say that there is a very good chance that Woodhead not only gets more touches than CJ this week, but also outperforms him again (and I would say the same for Hillman vs CJ).
I would also question the "expertise" of anyone making a strong argument to counter that.
Life's a crapshoot... trust your instincts on this one. Forget the experts for a minute, what do your eyes tell you?
Squintz82
Footballguy
NFL.com's Ian Rapoport reports C.J. Anderson's (questionable, toe) status is "up in the air" for Thursday night's game against the Chiefs.
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/644559756070395904
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/644559756070395904
ourmanflint
Footballguy
No matter what side of the fence you lie on CJ, you have to hate the persistent flow of misinformation from these beat writers and journalists.
ourmanflint
Footballguy
My eyes see an offense thats out of sync as a whole. Hopefully they get it corrected but until they do there isn't much FF value for any Denver skill players.
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