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CJ Anderson (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter JetMaxx
- Start date
Khy
Footballguy
Eh, it might set him back slightly? But I still don't see Hillman in an every down back role. He'll fumble in one of these pre-season games and Anderson will get a chance in game 2 (if cleared) or 3 to come in with the first team and likely outperform him. Hillman is definitely the more talented back but he reminds me of David Wilson (pre-neck) where in practice we see just lightning in a bottle of gunpowder. Then he hits the field and starts panicking, fumbling, running into his own linemen etc. Even though HIllman didn't fumble last night, it wasn't like he really did much of anything to be impressive either besides not fumbling. He had 2.5ypc, sure it was against the Seahawks, but he still didn't do much.
The only way this derails his opportunity is if he's for some reason out the 2nd and 3rd preseason game. As long as he's back this weekend or next weekend he should be fine though.
Khy
Footballguy
See, I'm less worried about that... my thoughts on that would be:
If they are afraid to rush him back? Then they value him a lot higher than their 3rd string RB. Which bodes well for his chances.
Otherwise, once he's cleared by doctors, which could be as early as 2-3 days from last night? Than he's cleared and they'll play him. And if they don't initially, I'm sure he'll make his case to play.
I'd say most likely, if it's just a mild concussion and he's cleared in normal time, he only misses 1-3 practices then comes back. Realize, this was a Thursday night game he took the hit in, they don't play again until next Sunday at 4pm. So he has 10 days to get cleared and hopefully get in one practice before the next preseason game. I'd be shocked if he isn't backing up Hillman in game 2. And if he isn't out there or cleared, then we might have something to worry about.
JaxBill
Footballguy
Sounds like it was quite a hit. And the picture speaks volumes
http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/08/07/denver-broncos-cj-anderson-concussion-seattle-seahawks-brock-coyle
ISUDESTROYERS
Footballguy
This is b***#####....how could he have got a concussion on that play. His head never got hit by the linebacker. If anything he got the wind knocked out of him. It showed 3 different angles and not once did his head get hit by the linebacker. The only thing I can think of is he somehow hit his head hard on the turf.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IOJc0X83hc
Does this change anything regarding his outlook for the rest of the pre-season? If anything, this clip makes me think he will backup Ronnie Hillman [and get plenty of playing time] this Sunday.
Thoughts?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IOJc0X83hc
Does this change anything regarding his outlook for the rest of the pre-season? If anything, this clip makes me think he will backup Ronnie Hillman [and get plenty of playing time] this Sunday.
Thoughts?
Adam Harstad
Moderator
Don't know what caused that concussion, but it's immediately obvious that he was really concussed. Watch how as soon as he hits the ground he pulls his elbows in to his side and extends his arms into the air for a moment. That's a textbook fencing response.
DropKick
Footballguy
The problem is he didn't get hit in the head on that play and his head didn't slam the turf. They say it's easier to get a subsequent concussion the more often you're concussed. Maybe he actually got banged on a previous play but if THAT play is the culprit, I'd be worried about Anderson's viability in the NFL>
ISUDESTROYERS
Footballguy
This is my only concern with C.J. Anderson.....he didn't get hit by the linebacker. What does that say about his durability moving forward. I have the same concern with Marquis Wilson who is the Bears 3WR who broke his collerbone after diving for a pass. He wasn't hit by anybody....he just broke his collerbone...
Penguin
Footballguy
I didn't see the play but Wilson could have landed on the collarbone causing the break. If that's the case it wouldn't be out of the norm to cause a break and certainly much more explainable then a concussion where the player wasn't hit in the head and his head didn't hit the ground hard.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Khy
Footballguy
Why? He's not wrong, Anderson doesn't take even a slight blow to the head. Nor does his helmet even really hit the ground. Watching that footage I can't see how he'd have gotten a concussion. Unless he got hit so hard his brain shot down to his sternum? It doesn't really take a doctor to say "Hmm, how could he get concussed with never taking a blow to the head?". He clearly tensed up like you would during a concussion, but it's weird as he took no contact to his head. My only thought could be that he got hit so hard the sheer force of the hit caused enough force to give him a concussion? But I'd believe he had a broken rib before a concussion.
Todd Andrews
Footballguy
Im not a doctor but had a wicked concussion in HS football and learned a lot about them from the doc and coaches back then. Brain injuries like concussions are usually caused by the brain slamming into the skull, usually following a blow to the head. But not always. Whiplash like conditions can cause the head to snap so fast that the brain slams into the skull causing a concussion where there is no direct blow to the head. Essentially, my understanding is that the concussion results from the brain "bruise" that results from the impact of the brain on the interior wall of the skull.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
He is wrong. A concussion can be caused by the head bouncing off the ground also, not just contact with another player, which was his point. And sometimes it doesn't take much force provided that the force is lined up in a particular way. I'm curious. Do you guys think DEN and/or Anderson are pretending he has a concussion? The RB3 in week 1 of preseason? To what end, exactly?
ETA - I watched it again, and just like the first time I watched, it seemed clear to me that the side of his helmet slammed against the ground, and that the effects on him were immediately recognizable afterwards. So I have to ask again, what is his motivation for pretending to be hurt immediately after the tackle?
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JFS171
Footballguy
All of us CJ owners need to be ready to make the jump to Thompson. There were some rumors of Thomson impressing earlier this summer, plus the performance in the first preseason game combined with CJ's concussion. There was also talk this summer that CJ was grossly out of shape, but most of us considered it coachspeak and CJ looked pretty solid to start the preseason.
Now we've got this camp report from yesterday:
Excerpt:
Here's perhaps the bigger thing to me: it was the OPENING of practice with the STARTING unit. Why wasn't Hillman in there? It's more of the smoke like we saw last year with Ronnie and the Broncos where he's pumped up as the backup to Ball/Moreno or even the starter, but there are little hints he's strictly a COP guy. Then he doesn't perform extremely well in the game.
Ball's going to get every opportunity, but I've said for a very long time that he looks pretty average to me. Thompson may or may not be special, but that's why we've been rostering CJ this whole time anyway. Thompson thus far sure sounds a whole lot like CJ did last camp...
As to his measurables (pro day numbers - wasn't invited to the combine best I can tell):
Vert - 35.5 (tied Bishop Sankey and Storm Johnson - would have been good for 13th among RBs at the combine)
Broad - 9'11" (1" short of Terrance West; an inch better than Storm Johnson - would have put him 18th among RBs at the combine)
40 yard - 4.57 (same as James White and Crowell - would have been 17th fastest at the combine among RBs)
Short Shuttle - 4.52 (not good -- most of the bigger guys didn't seem to run this, though his time is .01 from Alfred Blue's)
3-Cone -- 6.97 (would have been 8th at the combine among RBs -- faster than notable backups James White, Devonta Freeman, Charles Sims, etc.)
We need to watch this one closely...
Now we've got this camp report from yesterday:
Excerpt:
A few comments here -- Thompson is by far the biggest back on the roster at 5'11", 225lbs and situationally already seems to understand a lot of the concepts in the offense, which is HUGE for a rookie. Manning and Cutcliffe are extremely close, so I find it telling the article directly mentions Manning's familiarity with Thompson leading to the Broncos to bring him in. As a Duke product (granted not all athletes at Duke are geniuses) you would expect Thompson to be able to handle the mental side of the game, which it seems he is thus far.
Here's perhaps the bigger thing to me: it was the OPENING of practice with the STARTING unit. Why wasn't Hillman in there? It's more of the smoke like we saw last year with Ronnie and the Broncos where he's pumped up as the backup to Ball/Moreno or even the starter, but there are little hints he's strictly a COP guy. Then he doesn't perform extremely well in the game.
Ball's going to get every opportunity, but I've said for a very long time that he looks pretty average to me. Thompson may or may not be special, but that's why we've been rostering CJ this whole time anyway. Thompson thus far sure sounds a whole lot like CJ did last camp...
As to his measurables (pro day numbers - wasn't invited to the combine best I can tell):
Vert - 35.5 (tied Bishop Sankey and Storm Johnson - would have been good for 13th among RBs at the combine)
Broad - 9'11" (1" short of Terrance West; an inch better than Storm Johnson - would have put him 18th among RBs at the combine)
40 yard - 4.57 (same as James White and Crowell - would have been 17th fastest at the combine among RBs)
Short Shuttle - 4.52 (not good -- most of the bigger guys didn't seem to run this, though his time is .01 from Alfred Blue's)
3-Cone -- 6.97 (would have been 8th at the combine among RBs -- faster than notable backups James White, Devonta Freeman, Charles Sims, etc.)
We need to watch this one closely...
Khy
Footballguy
I'm aware, my point was that it looked like his head barely touches the ground. Looks like he mostly lands on his shoulder. As LawFitz said, film can be misleading for stuff like this but to me at first glance it looked like he got the wind severely knocked out of him or hurt his shoulder. Even the medics are seen later on moving his arm around when he gets up on the field. I assumed he hurt his shoulder/rip area. Not a concussion, short of his arms locking up nothing about that hit said concussion to me.Bronco Billy said:
I'm not denying he even has a concussion, I'm simply saying you were being too harsh with your "turn in your medical degree" statement" as the hit wasn't directed at his head and his head seems to barely even graze the ground. But I guess it could be sort of like dropping your cellphone, I've dropped mine from 5-10 feet up off the top of a ladder without a scratch even on it, meanwhile, I've seen my girlfriend drop hers off the couch and shatter the entire screen. Sometimes it's not the force but the angle that can damage stuff and I think that's what happened with Anderson. My point was that you were being a little ridiculous with your statement in response to ISU as it wasn't really clear how he even came close to suffering a concussion.
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Bronco Billy
Footballguy
ROYALWITCHEESE
Footballguy
I noticed that forearm blast to the facemask that knocked his head backward. I think that was the blow.
Khy
Footballguy
Ridiculous may have not been the correct term. Possibly rude? My point was his statement wasn't that far off base.
ISUDESTROYERS
Footballguy
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Yeah, you just go on out and roster Thompson. You are an eagle, after all. We dumb fleas will stick with Anderson as Ball's handcuff.
Good call.
DropKick
Footballguy
I wasn't questioning the concussion - just that he didn't take much of a hit. The announcers called it a "big hit" and Rotoworld called it "thundering" but I think it was more of a glancing blow as Anderson was going down and the defender hit him on the side. I would categorize that as routine - something that could happen 10-15 times a game to a feature back. His head didn't "slam" either... really comes down on his shoulder.
My point was the ease of concussion...
JFS171
Footballguy
I wouldn't be that quick to dismiss Thompson as his situation sounds a whole lot like Anderson's did last year. Anderson hasn't exactly proven a ton to this point. He was carried on PUP, then worked as the 3/4) last year. I agree coming into camp he's Ball's likely handcuff, but those things change quickly. Thompson getting hype as the best pass protector on the team is huge IMO. The fact that he's also drawing praise for knowledge of audibles and the playbook at this point is likewise worth keeping an eye on. And the fact that the whole reason he was picked up by the Broncos was due to Cutcliffe's relationship with Manning is further icing on the cake.
Perhaps its premature to jump ship to Thompson from CJ at this point, but its far from ridiculous, and it could look like the obvious move a week from now.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
ROYALWITCHEESE
Footballguy
IMO it was the forearm smash to the face. Not the helmet or the ground. Defender's arm knocked his head back.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Well, whatever it was he's medically cleared.
JFS171
Footballguy
JFS171
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
He's back in there now.
ROYALWITCHEESE
Footballguy
ItsOnlytheRiver
Footballguy
Have some of you learned nothing? No rookie running back is getting significant time lining up behind Manning, much less an undrafted rookie. The "he's a great pass protector" stuff is the same thing they said about Ball last year at this time and people foolishly bought in.
Third on the depth chart is right where Knowshon spent much of his time the last couple years. It's an ok place to be if Ball goes down.
Third on the depth chart is right where Knowshon spent much of his time the last couple years. It's an ok place to be if Ball goes down.
Adam Harstad
Moderator
JFS171
Footballguy
Adam Harstad
Moderator
Hillman's been getting the start and a majority of the first-team reps in preseason, but Anderson's definitely been working in with the first team, as well.
ItsOnlytheRiver
Footballguy
I was referring to the guy who was recommending Juwan Thomas or whatever his name is.Again, CJ Anderson is right where anyone should expect him to be at #3 unless you guys are really gonna start up with this Hillman stuff again.
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Adam Harstad
Moderator
Anderson only played 21 snaps last year (well, 24 if you include the 3 meaningless snaps he got at the end of the SB blowout). When Hillman lost the faith of the coaches, they didn't respond by promoting Anderson, they responded by going pretty much exclusively to a 2-back rotation with Moreno and Ball. In five of Denver's final eight games, those two were the only guys to log a snap.
Edit: But I also don't trust Hillman. I have Ball and Anderson in a couple of different leagues (both together and separately), but Hillman in none, even though he's available on the street in most of them.
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JFS171
Footballguy
To be clear, the point wasn't that Thompson was some elite, great, end-all, be-all prospect... it was that at the time he bore watching given the storyline was sounding a whole lot like CJ Anderson's rookie year. Plus Anderson had just been concussed and no one knew the exact extent, and Anderson didn't exactly have a stellar offseason.
That's the only reason I brought up Thompson.
As to Denver and Fox not playing rookies... they sure played Ball plenty last year.
Second Sight
Footballguy
I don't agree. It appears trendy for people to be looking into crystal balls and predicting an inevitable injury for Foster (much like people did/have done for SJAX and Gore and a couple of others).
But while we can go along with the popular thought, the one thing we know is fact that it sounds like a "silver bullet for a prophecy" because that (an injury to Foster) is the ONLY thing that will give Grimes anywhere near as remote value as CJ Anderson this season. That is what must happen because if Foster is healthy, he is an absolute workhorse for this team.
People may be finding it very easy to throw the statement out there, especially since he hasn't played in the pre-season, but that occurs a lot with older KNOWN GREAT backs. ADP hardly ever plays. Gore seldom does. You never see Charles. You never saw LT. What is there to prove when you expect your RB to carry 75% of the RB load? It's a lose/lose scenario for a coach. Pre-season has its purpose for developing a team but it is pointless for known vets. The payoff for what they get out of it is nowhere near worth it compared to the fact that you could easily lose your star player when you have a lot of players out there who aren't as skilled at picking up blitzes, etc.
A healthy Foster = a well-rested Grimes & co. but in Denver, Anderson could see more meaningful value, easily. Hillman is not a significant barrier and the Broncos should score as many points as anyone this year.
In a "pick one" scenario, I'll choose Anderson. §
Adam Harstad
Moderator
If Foster got injured I think you'd see Grimes and Blue splitting reps. In that offense, that's a time-share I want no part in.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
With all of the acquired knowledge in this thread, you'd think people would be using it right about now. And look back in time at the Rotoworld reports on Anderson. Hillman is the change of pace 3rd down guy, CJA is the 1st & 2nd down and goalline guy.
I will add that Hillman is 195 pounds, not only is there an issue with wear and tear, but there is also an issue with fumbles and protecting Manning. CJA brings 215 pounds and he can wear on a defense, he has been awaiting his chance and the Broncs have been holding him. An UDFA the Broncos held him last year even though he had an MCL injury, they were not dropping him.
The Broncos are most likely going to blow the Jets out and there will be a lot of carries.
In 2012 it was Moreno the No. 4 back who came in. In Nov. 2013 CJ Anderson took over, not Hillman. And if you look at weeks 1-3 it was CJA who came in to spell Ball, he had the 2nd most carries in each game (albeit left game 3 with a concussion). CJA was held out of week 5 because Denver wanted an extra CB for the game and CJA does not play special teams. It could be a committee, but CJA looks like he may be the early down and GL choice. Juwan Thompson also left the game with a knee injury, if he is out too that only helps CJA more.
I will add that Hillman is 195 pounds, not only is there an issue with wear and tear, but there is also an issue with fumbles and protecting Manning. CJA brings 215 pounds and he can wear on a defense, he has been awaiting his chance and the Broncs have been holding him. An UDFA the Broncos held him last year even though he had an MCL injury, they were not dropping him.
The Broncos are most likely going to blow the Jets out and there will be a lot of carries.
In 2012 it was Moreno the No. 4 back who came in. In Nov. 2013 CJ Anderson took over, not Hillman. And if you look at weeks 1-3 it was CJA who came in to spell Ball, he had the 2nd most carries in each game (albeit left game 3 with a concussion). CJA was held out of week 5 because Denver wanted an extra CB for the game and CJA does not play special teams. It could be a committee, but CJA looks like he may be the early down and GL choice. Juwan Thompson also left the game with a knee injury, if he is out too that only helps CJA more.
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
By the way there is a great FBG article called, "What if Montee Ball is lost for the season? What are the fantasy implications for the Broncos if a long-term injury befalls Montee Ball?" by Waldman from August this year. It's almost like they saw this coming.
Zyphros
Footballguy
Was able to re-grab CJ 2 weeks ago. Initially I tried to shop him and got absolutely no interest and apparently that was the case since he stayed on the WW for 3 weeks til I got him back.
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