Sir Psycho
Footballguy
With Colston alway dinged up, one of them could emerge as a viable #2wr.
So who do you think will win the job ?
So who do you think will win the job ?
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Toon or Still ? Who will be the Saint #3 wr ? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Sir Psycho
- Start date
koreansteve
Footballguy
Seems like Stills has done a great job working the sidelines and Brees seems to be increasing his faith in the kid. I can't remember Toon with too many catches with Brees and the 1st team offense on the field this preseason.
Lavachebeadsman
Footballguy
Toon had a big 54 yard reception in the game last night. I think him and Stills both see time.
rocketsauce
Footballguy
I'd say both.
If Colston or Moore misses time (very likely) than I think Stills becomes a Fantasy WR3 or higher. I think Stills still has value even without an injury, but it will be spotty and inconsistent, as this 3rd Saints WR position always is.
Toon I think slides right into the Morgan/Henderson/Meachem role of the deep ball guy. I think he'll retain that, regardless of injuries or playing time for the 3 guys above him.
I'd draft Stills first in PPR.
If Colston or Moore misses time (very likely) than I think Stills becomes a Fantasy WR3 or higher. I think Stills still has value even without an injury, but it will be spotty and inconsistent, as this 3rd Saints WR position always is.
Toon I think slides right into the Morgan/Henderson/Meachem role of the deep ball guy. I think he'll retain that, regardless of injuries or playing time for the 3 guys above him.
I'd draft Stills first in PPR.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
I think we could be 5 games in the regular season and still not know. Tough call rostering either at the end of a redraft league, even with deep rosters.
EBF
Footballguy
The answer might be both.
The Saints have used quite a few speedy deep threat guys in recent years (Meachem, Henderson, Morgan). Stills can provide them with some of the same things.
I think Toon offers a little more as a possession WR and is more of a like-for-like replacement for Colston if he should miss extensive time.
Long term, I would guess that Toon has a higher chance of being a solid #1 or #2 target, whereas Stills should settle in as a Henderson type.
The Saints have used quite a few speedy deep threat guys in recent years (Meachem, Henderson, Morgan). Stills can provide them with some of the same things.
I think Toon offers a little more as a possession WR and is more of a like-for-like replacement for Colston if he should miss extensive time.
Long term, I would guess that Toon has a higher chance of being a solid #1 or #2 target, whereas Stills should settle in as a Henderson type.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Right now it's shaping up as Stills, Toon and Parker as WR's 3, 4 and 5, respectively.
Toon has looked terrific.
But they have been throwing Stills' way quite a lot in PS Games 1 & 2. Game 1 Stills had some mistakes but he was on this weekend.
Toon looks like a pro, ready to go.
Preston Parker is looking good too.
All of this is shadded by the fact Moore and Colston have not played much this preseason, but I think Stills and Toon will have important roles, the Saints will be going deep with agression this year by the looks of it and they will both used that way. Stills may have some good games. I'd get Toon right away if Colston is out for any reason. I think they both will be better than Henderson and Meachem.
Toon has looked terrific.
But they have been throwing Stills' way quite a lot in PS Games 1 & 2. Game 1 Stills had some mistakes but he was on this weekend.
Toon looks like a pro, ready to go.
Preston Parker is looking good too.
All of this is shadded by the fact Moore and Colston have not played much this preseason, but I think Stills and Toon will have important roles, the Saints will be going deep with agression this year by the looks of it and they will both used that way. Stills may have some good games. I'd get Toon right away if Colston is out for any reason. I think they both will be better than Henderson and Meachem.
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Sir Psycho
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I wondered about that too; Morgan got hurt and in came not only Breaston but Patrick Crayton. They also brought in Laurent Robinson and Chaz Schillens. So what was that about?
Breaston has played on special teams, punt returns mostly. Maybe they were brought in as insurance in case Stills did not work out, but the Saint already had another 4 WRs who were competing (besides Stills/Toon/Parker). But what was clear was that rather than give up on the role the Saints had created for Morgan they just seem to be plugging Stills right in.
Considering that Morgan had issues with catching and route running on short and intermediate routes, I'd say Stills is looking even better.
ETA - Breaston and Crayton were cut today, so I guess that was just due diligence in case Stills did not work out or in case there were more injuries.
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JFS171
Footballguy
Looking to get some updated opinions on this. My read on the situation is that Still is filling that Devery Henderson role as the speed WR to stretch the field. Toon looks to be more in line for work behind Colston and/or Moore should injuries strike, but may also have a shot in 3- or 4-wide sets.
I must admit, I missed how big and fast Toon is, or how productive he was in college (plus RotoViz is super high on the kid, for those that appreciate their analysis). Brees is on record as saying Toon reminds him of Vincent Jackson. Plus with Colston continuing to battle this mysterious foot injury (which I've not been able to find any actual details on in cursory Google searches), it's possble both of these guys are really valuable.
In dynasty, I want the guy with the potential to play a bigger role in the offense over the long haul. IMO that's Toon with Stills filling that Henderson/Moore role and Toon eventually stepping in for Colston.
What say you?
I must admit, I missed how big and fast Toon is, or how productive he was in college (plus RotoViz is super high on the kid, for those that appreciate their analysis). Brees is on record as saying Toon reminds him of Vincent Jackson. Plus with Colston continuing to battle this mysterious foot injury (which I've not been able to find any actual details on in cursory Google searches), it's possble both of these guys are really valuable.
In dynasty, I want the guy with the potential to play a bigger role in the offense over the long haul. IMO that's Toon with Stills filling that Henderson/Moore role and Toon eventually stepping in for Colston.
What say you?
Sir Psycho
Footballguy
After last preseason game, I took a flyer on Stills.
massraider
Footballguy
WR1s, down the road, look like Toon. Not Stills.
It's not the final word, at all, but in general, yeah, grab the big dude.
EBF
Footballguy
I like Toon and got him cheap in a couple dynasties a few months back. Physically, he fits the mold of a #1 target. Whether or not he actually has that kind of talent is up for debate, but even a merely solid starter in a great offense can have big FF value (see: Eric Decker). If any of NO's young WRs are going to become standout FF players, my money is on him. Stills seems like more of a low volume big play threat who won't ever catch enough passes or be consistent enough to crack a good FF team's starting lineup.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I think you guys are going to see some Kenny Stills highlights this year.
In 2 NO leagues Stills has been drafted, with grunts from those who missed, Toon has not, probably on the idea that Colston and Moore will be playing and fine and Stills is clearly part of the 3 wide plan and they're excited about him.
This preseason it was all Stills and Toon. But I wouldn't think about this like it was Henderson and Meachem.
Toon's an add in dynasty. I think he will get into the gameplan this year regardless, and he may have a couple good games, but as with all Saints RBs/WRs/TEs besides Graham who knows who when, and that's the idea.
A lot of it is up to Brees and I think he already has more trust and desire to go to Stills than he did Morgan, Henderson and even Meachem. It's also clear Payton will be going deep with agression again, that should be Stills' forte but it remains to be seen if Toon will be part of that (but he has shown he can go deep).
In 2 NO leagues Stills has been drafted, with grunts from those who missed, Toon has not, probably on the idea that Colston and Moore will be playing and fine and Stills is clearly part of the 3 wide plan and they're excited about him.
This preseason it was all Stills and Toon. But I wouldn't think about this like it was Henderson and Meachem.
Toon's an add in dynasty. I think he will get into the gameplan this year regardless, and he may have a couple good games, but as with all Saints RBs/WRs/TEs besides Graham who knows who when, and that's the idea.
A lot of it is up to Brees and I think he already has more trust and desire to go to Stills than he did Morgan, Henderson and even Meachem. It's also clear Payton will be going deep with agression again, that should be Stills' forte but it remains to be seen if Toon will be part of that (but he has shown he can go deep).
chickensoup
Footballguy
I picked Toon ahead of Stills in my dynasty startup. Toon is a better all around receiver and is a great Colston comp. Stills is the Henderson role maybe permanently. You may never be able to play Stills as anything but a flex. If your throwing darts at players in the 14th round if a dynasty startup, you should be looking for Colston instead of Flex players IMO.
EBF
Footballguy
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Pigskin Fanatic
Footballguy
eta: eta above, nm.
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Pigskin Fanatic
Footballguy
At first glance Toon seems like a good buy for Dynasty with Colston getting up there in age and I don't know what his contract situation is. But then Brees is 34 this year, would you cut the dynasty value of Saints receivers because of this?
Zaphod
Two heads are better than one
Lots of good information in here. I like Toon and his measurables. I think he is decent when I watch him, but nothing that jumps out at me. Stills on the other hand has made me stop the recording and go back a couple of times in preseason. Hard to get too excited from preseason, but sometimes when you watch a player, they just show you something more than how fast they ran the 40 or how much they press. I think Stills is going to surprise some people.
chickensoup
Footballguy
I mostly think Toon's value comes in dynasty a d has a higher ceiling. It's not a knock on Stills necessarily, because I think he is a fantastic receiver. You just may never be able to count on him as more than a bye week flex option in deep leagues this year. It's all about his usage, which will be deep balls. Hard to count on that kind of thing happening on the week you need to start him
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
I took a flyer on Stills in the 18th round tonight and got an "FU" thrown my way so that makes me happy about the pick.
As far as if Colston/Moore go down and Toon would see more time, while that is true, Stills looks like he'll see more time to begin with. If the WR1 or WR2 go down, I dont see a reason why Stills wouldnt be leaned on even more despite Toon getting more snaps if that were to happen.
As far as if Colston/Moore go down and Toon would see more time, while that is true, Stills looks like he'll see more time to begin with. If the WR1 or WR2 go down, I dont see a reason why Stills wouldnt be leaned on even more despite Toon getting more snaps if that were to happen.
Insein
Footballguy
If I'm looking for equivalents, I see Stills as the Devery Henderson while Toon is the Robert Meachem. Henderson was the homerun hitter and lined up in most of the 3WR sets but Meachem got production when Colston was out for periods. I don't see Colston surviving the season intact. That's why I'm a little higher on Toon.
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
Seemed like to me Devery and Meachem had the same role for NO, it just depended on the year, who may have been hurt, or even whatever game, etc.
Im not putting much in either guys basket, obviously, but as others have said in here more than likely the best answer is who knows and even by week 6 that may still be the best answer.
Sir Psycho
Footballguy
I think Stills has the quicks to potentially develop into Moore like intermediate consistency.
Question is, can he ever develop the physical strength to beat the jam? seems doubtful
Seems like a guy that could easily be taken out with bracket coverage. But in that offense, can you ever bracket coverage him?
Question is, can he ever develop the physical strength to beat the jam? seems doubtful
Seems like a guy that could easily be taken out with bracket coverage. But in that offense, can you ever bracket coverage him?
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saintfool
Dead sexy
if i had to guess then i would put Stills is in the Devery role. he has the speed to be the same kind of downfield threat that Henderson used to make a living at. the difference, i think, is that Stills looks like he can catch. if he has a decent football IQ and the ability to earn Brees' trust then he could be very valuable.
Toon is not filling that Meachem role because that's the very same one that Henderson had. Meach was another speed merchant. i don't know what Toon's role is yet.
Toon is not filling that Meachem role because that's the very same one that Henderson had. Meach was another speed merchant. i don't know what Toon's role is yet.
JFS171
Footballguy
Germane to this discussion, can anyone comment on exactly what Colston's injury even is? It's one of the quitest injury absences I've seen this preseason, but IMO one of the most significant as well. From what I can tell, he's not practicing more than maybe a day or two in a row without having to take another day or two off. He's also yet to appear in a preseason game.
Given that he's 30 and dealing with this mysterious foot thing, I believe I lean Toon myself. IMO he's got the best combination of possession skills with ability to go down the field. Stills, to me, seems to be the deep threat guy that could certainly develop into more, but Toon is the guy running in Colston's spot when Colston hasn't played. That's the guy I want in this offense and in dynasty.
ETA - I think it's about your expectations as well. I don't expect to need to play either one of these guys unless catastrophic injuries occur to my team. I'm interested in the higher long-term ceiling. Which guy's got the best shot of being a WR1 down the road. IMO that's Toon, though I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest to see Stills outproduce him this season, especially if Colston manages to play 16 games.
Given that he's 30 and dealing with this mysterious foot thing, I believe I lean Toon myself. IMO he's got the best combination of possession skills with ability to go down the field. Stills, to me, seems to be the deep threat guy that could certainly develop into more, but Toon is the guy running in Colston's spot when Colston hasn't played. That's the guy I want in this offense and in dynasty.
ETA - I think it's about your expectations as well. I don't expect to need to play either one of these guys unless catastrophic injuries occur to my team. I'm interested in the higher long-term ceiling. Which guy's got the best shot of being a WR1 down the road. IMO that's Toon, though I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest to see Stills outproduce him this season, especially if Colston manages to play 16 games.
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massraider
Footballguy
My question is, how long are you willing to wait,for one of these guys to take over?
Colston and Moore are 30, is that correct? Well, 30 is old, but it's not running back old. Colston, the type of player he is, could rattle around there for 3 more years, at least. Moore for 2 more, no problem. Graham is there, a target monster.
Now, they are WRs for New Orleans, so they cannot be ignored, but unless one of them is truly special, I have to feel like Brees is going to want to continue leaning on the guys he trusts.
Colston and Moore are 30, is that correct? Well, 30 is old, but it's not running back old. Colston, the type of player he is, could rattle around there for 3 more years, at least. Moore for 2 more, no problem. Graham is there, a target monster.
Now, they are WRs for New Orleans, so they cannot be ignored, but unless one of them is truly special, I have to feel like Brees is going to want to continue leaning on the guys he trusts.
BlackMamba24
Footballguy
from the little I saw, it seems like he (Brees) had some trust in Stills and has had some nice things to say about him. Granted, it is pre-season and Colston was out, but I think both Toon and Stills are decent dynasty prospects, especially in this offense and with Brees as the QB. I'm willing to wait and see if anything happens, one of these guys are an injury away from a possible big role. Stills was a guy I wanted to to keep an eye on once he was drafted to the Saints, and I like what I saw this pre season.
Flashback to Giants 2010
Steve Smith was 25 and coming off a 1220/7 year
Hakeem Nicks 22 and put up 1050/11
27 yearold Manningham put up 1000/9
Boss wouldn't go away, Barden the project was there too
or Flashback to Cowboys 2008
Witten was 26, Williams was 28 and just traded for
There are lots of reasons to talk yourself out of a situation... I go with the KISS approach. I like the talent and I like the HOF QB in a historically great passing game.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
This is one situation where league setup really makes the choice for you.
Traditional setup when you can get a one week fill-in off the waiver wire at WR I'd want Toon because his ceiling is higher if he gets opportunity due to injuries. Best ball setup or very deep leagues where there is nothing at WR on the waiver wire I take Stills because he will have production, but much like Henderson/Meach it's really tough to predict just which games he'll catch those deep passes for a TD or two. That role in the offense is so up and down it would be touch for me to start Stills as anything more than a bye week fill-in so chances are pretty good he'd be sitting on my bench when he does have his random big games. At least with Toon he'd only be in my lineup if there were injuries and his role would be greatly expanded so you'd benefit from a higher percentage of his production.
Traditional setup when you can get a one week fill-in off the waiver wire at WR I'd want Toon because his ceiling is higher if he gets opportunity due to injuries. Best ball setup or very deep leagues where there is nothing at WR on the waiver wire I take Stills because he will have production, but much like Henderson/Meach it's really tough to predict just which games he'll catch those deep passes for a TD or two. That role in the offense is so up and down it would be touch for me to start Stills as anything more than a bye week fill-in so chances are pretty good he'd be sitting on my bench when he does have his random big games. At least with Toon he'd only be in my lineup if there were injuries and his role would be greatly expanded so you'd benefit from a higher percentage of his production.
massraider
Footballguy
EBF
Footballguy
Colston's contract is fully guaranteed for 2012 and 2013. Partially guaranteed for 2014 and nothing beyond that. I'm not an expert on cap science, but it seems like the Saints would be able to get away from him cheaply in a couple years if he's no longer worth his salary.
Of course, they could draft more WRs between now and then. There's also the issue of how long Brees can play at an elite level. He's not a young guy at this point. Even if someone like Toon or Stills becomes a starter here within a year or two, he's not going to have a decade catching passes from Brees.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I don't know if people believe in WR handcuffs, but you could probably do pretty well with Colston/Toon, and (maybe earlier when cheaper...) Amendola/Thompkins is probably another one.
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statgrubby
Footballguy
Toon. He is just more dynamic and has serious up side. Stills is a low floor, low ceiling. I am grabbing Toon in all my Dynasty leagues
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I disagree with the bolded. If you take into account when he's being drafted he has a higher floor than most but the problem is it's a complete guess when that production will come. I do agree that his role in the offense hasn't demonstrated a very high ceiling.
whodat2682
Footballguy
Kenny Stills, no question. Toon plays the same position in this offense as Colston. So, unless Colston goes down (which is obviously a possibility,) Stills has much more upside if only because he will be on the field more often.
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