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Rotoworld:

ESPN Bills reporter Mike Rodak said second-year QB E.J. Manuel struggled with accuracy during OTAs.

Rodak said Manuel had "multiple" passes sail high during the Bills final practice and that had been "a trend during the three weeks of OTAs." The Bills are loaded at offensive skill positions, but Manuel has to play better for Buffalo to reach their full potential. We are not optimistic he will.
Source: ESPN.com

Oof.

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Yeah, that's horrible news. So much for working on footwork and form and fixing that issue. Yuck.

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Rotoworld:

Reports on Bills second-year QB E.J. Manuel's OTA and minicamp performance have been decidedly mixed.

A previous ESPN report claimed Manuel was struggling with accuracy and showing a trend of sailing passes high. Another from WGR 550 discusses Manuel's inconsistencies and throwing an "easy interception" to UDFA DB Deon Broomfield. We left Manuel's rookie year feeling skeptical of his NFL future.

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This seem to have a different take:

"Based on the early reports from Bills minicamp, the work Manuel did in the offseason is starting to show as offensive coordinatorNathaniel Hackett has seen tremendous progress in last year’s first round pick based on his comments with the team’s official website.

He’s doing a very good job. He’s put in a lot of work, all the quarterbacks are. They’re understanding the system, understanding what we’re trying to get. It’s nice to see him make plays within the pocket, step up, find his check downs, throw the ball down the field a couple times. He’s really starting to get it all. It was funny, when he came into minicamp he was like, “Alright, no more new installs, let’s work on what we’ve been doing.” I think that’s a refresher for a quarterback that he knows what he’s doing right now with what we’ve got in."

http://fansided.com/2014/06/19/ej-manuel-really-starting-get-buffalo-bills/#!1mO7C

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Rotoworld:

E.J. Manuel completed 2-of-7 passes for 19 yards in Buffalo's preseason opener against the Giants.

It looked like the Giants' defenders could easily read Manuel's eyes, as he had more passes batted down at the line of scrimmage (3) than completions, and couldn't get Buffalo's offense moving. We've been skeptical about Manuel's pro prospects since he came out of Florida State, and this was a poor showing following a poor rookie year. He's no more than a QB3 in fantasy leagues.

Aug 3 - 8:54 PM

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Just posted this in game thread for giants vs bills game....

The Ej Manuel pick looked like a reach when he was picked last year and continues to look like a reach. I know it was limited basis but with Manuel at the helm there is not much chance of buffalo winning more than 6 games. The sad part is buffalo actually has a lot of pieces on both sides of the ball. Manuel can't instill a bunch of optimism with Buffalo fans.

Some qbs have that it or even competent component. Manuel looks more of the Vince young and Ryan leaf fold than anything.

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Just posted this in game thread for giants vs bills game....

The Ej Manuel pick looked like a reach when he was picked last year and continues to look like a reach. I know it was limited basis but with Manuel at the helm there is not much chance of buffalo winning more than 6 games. The sad part is buffalo actually has a lot of pieces on both sides of the ball. Manuel can't instill a bunch of optimism with Buffalo fans.

Some qbs have that it or even competent component. Manuel looks more of the Vince young and Ryan leaf fold than anything.

I drafted him as a boom/bust guy and he's certainly looking the part of the latter.

Edited by cstu

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Just posted this in game thread for giants vs bills game....

The Ej Manuel pick looked like a reach when he was picked last year and continues to look like a reach. I know it was limited basis but with Manuel at the helm there is not much chance of buffalo winning more than 6 games. The sad part is buffalo actually has a lot of pieces on both sides of the ball. Manuel can't instill a bunch of optimism with Buffalo fans.

Some qbs have that it or even competent component. Manuel looks more of the Vince young and Ryan leaf fold than anything.

You could tell all that from the first preseason game of his sophomore year?

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It's not just this game. This goes back to last year, and back to his days at FSU. Scouting reports all said the same thing. Physical tools are all there, but he's never had the knack for looking off corners and safeties, tending to telegraph his throws. If it was just one quarter of a preseason game, it wouldn't be reason to panic. But this is his known weakness and all offseason to work on it, with better skill positions around him. And still the same old EJ.

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It's not just this game. This goes back to last year, and back to his days at FSU. Scouting reports all said the same thing. Physical tools are all there, but he's never had the knack for looking off corners and safeties, tending to telegraph his throws. If it was just one quarter of a preseason game, it wouldn't be reason to panic. But this is his known weakness and all offseason to work on it, with better skill positions around him. And still the same old EJ.

Not trying to challenge you here. Curios actually. Where can I find some of these pre-draft reports regarding these weaknesses.

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Manuel threw for about 200 yds and a TD+ per game, a 77.7 rating, 20 years ago he would hailed a Savior but in today's NFL that won't even get you into the top 2/3 of the league. There's a lot of questions here including Marrone who I don't know is especially qualified to develop a young raw QB.

Edited by Mr Non Sequitur

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From Dane Brugler's 2013 NFL Draft Guide:

1.EJ MANUEL | Florida State 6045|237 lbs|5SR Virginia Beach, VA (Bayside HS) 3/19/1990 (age 23) #3

2012: (14/14)

68.0/3,397/23/10

PROJECTION: 4th-5th Round

2011: (12/11)

65.3/2,666/18/8

MEASUREABLES: 6045 | 237 | 35” | 10 3-8" | 83 1-8”

2010: (10/2)

69.9/861/4/4

PRO DAY: 4.65 40-YD DASH | 1.67 10-YD | 34” V | 9-10 BJ | 7.08 3C | 4.21 SS

2009: (7/4)

65.1/817/2/6

2008: Redshirted

STRENGTHS: Good-sized athlete with long-striding speed and quick feet…effortless thrower with all the arm strength you need…fluid hips and can pick up chunks of yards with his legs or elude pressure…improved decisions to find the correct read and put extra juice on his passes…keeps eyes downfield and looks in control of the offense…gains confidence with positive plays…nice job on ball fakes with experience on zone-read and option plays…high completion percentage with good numbers.

WEAKNESSES: Doesn’t panic in the pocket, but holds the ball too long and struggles to feel pressure…below average footwork in the pocket…hesitant to unleash his arm or pull the trigger, leading to a lot of head-scratching decisions or check down screens… questionable field vision and anticipation, struggling to recognize what the defense is doing…streaky touch to throws at all levels and the accuracy plummets without a clean pocket…inconsistent execution and production on the big stage.

SUMMARY: A talented passer who improved his leadership and command as a senior, but benefited from a lot of easy reads and basic throws…too many examples of “what did he see?” questions as he often ignored safety help, making puzzling decisions downfield…galloping athlete with the quickness to make plays with his feet, but poor pocket presence…will be over-drafted because he has NFL size, speed and arm strength, but there are strong concerns if the mental side will ever catch up.

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It's not just this game. This goes back to last year, and back to his days at FSU. Scouting reports all said the same thing. Physical tools are all there, but he's never had the knack for looking off corners and safeties, tending to telegraph his throws. If it was just one quarter of a preseason game, it wouldn't be reason to panic. But this is his known weakness and all offseason to work on it, with better skill positions around him. And still the same old EJ.

Not trying to challenge you here. Curios actually. Where can I find some of these pre-draft reports regarding these weaknesses.

NFL.com = "Weaknesses

Gives opponents too many chances for turnovers by forcing throws into coverage trying to make a play. Area code accuracy -- short throws are often low or wide, preventing receivers from making a play after the catch. Deep ball accuracy is uneven as well. Gets happy feet under pressure, spins to the outside to avoid the rush. Inconsistent recognizing blitz. Must step into his throws more consistently to fully utilize his arm strength."

WalterFootball = "NFL sources who watch Florida State closely have told WalterFootball.com that Manuel is not a natural pocket passer. They don't feel he is as accurate as his completion percentage indicates. They went on to say that Manuel is frustrating to watch because he has all the makings to be a special quarterback, but is not utilizing his full potential."

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Once Buffalo drafted this bum, I put every Buffalo WR/TE on the do not draft list. It will take Buffalo years to figure out he stinks.

Edited by lod01

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With a new ownership group coming in there could actually be fast turnover in the coaching staff if the team struggles this year and I would imagine that could trickle down to Manuel if he's bad. So much is up in the air right now though. Manuel looked bad last night but things need to play out a bit.

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Doug Marrone's not hitched to Doug Whaley's mistake pick. He knows his job's on the line with EJ's development. And Tuel's not much of a plan B.

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Doug Marrone's not hitched to Doug Whaley's mistake pick. He knows his job's on the line with EJ's development. And Tuel's not much of a plan B.

Maybe Thad Lewis is plan B.

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It's not just this game. This goes back to last year, and back to his days at FSU. Scouting reports all said the same thing. Physical tools are all there, but he's never had the knack for looking off corners and safeties, tending to telegraph his throws. If it was just one quarter of a preseason game, it wouldn't be reason to panic. But this is his known weakness and all offseason to work on it, with better skill positions around him. And still the same old EJ.

This in a nut shell. I was hoping to see signs of improvement but saw the same old rookie qb.

Edited by Carter_Can_Fly

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Rotoworld:

E.J. Manuel's struggles have continued in practice at Bills camp.

In each of Buffalo's practices since the Hall of Fame game -- where Manuel went 2-of-7 passing for 19 yards with three passes batted down at the line of scrimmage -- E.J. has reportedly been "apprehensive, indecisive and mostly inaccurate." He's shown a tendency to stare down his first read, pat the football, and "either take a sack or throw an inaccurate pass." The Bills badly need the light to come on soon for Manuel. We remain highly skeptical it will.

Source: WGR 550 Buffalo

Aug 6 - 11:20 PM

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I'm not very optimistic about Manuel, but I also recall him playing fairly well last preseason (before he got hurt) and looking good at times during the regular season. All of this talk of how terrible he is is, at least, premature.

Edited by OC Zed

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I'm not very optimistic about Manuel, but I also recall him playing fairly well last preseason (before he got hurt) and looking good at times during the regular season. All of this talk of how terrible he is is, at least, premature.

Is it though? I mean, it's certainly premature to say that he'll never be good, but if you had to evaluate him overall right now, it's not pretty.

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I'm not very optimistic about Manuel, but I also recall him playing fairly well last preseason (before he got hurt) and looking good at times during the regular season. All of this talk of how terrible he is is, at least, premature.

Is it though? I mean, it's certainly premature to say that he'll never be good, but if you had to evaluate him overall right now, it's not pretty.

Young QB's get a free pass from me for at least their first two years. I've seen nothing to be optimistic about so far but he still has the raw talent you can't teach.

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I'm not very optimistic about Manuel, but I also recall him playing fairly well last preseason (before he got hurt) and looking good at times during the regular season. All of this talk of how terrible he is is, at least, premature.

Is it though? I mean, it's certainly premature to say that he'll never be good, but if you had to evaluate him overall right now, it's not pretty.

Young QB's get a free pass from me for at least their first two years. I've seen nothing to be optimistic about so far but he still has the raw talent you can't teach.

This is exactly how I felt about Jamarcus Russell. :scared:

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Too early to completely punt on this guy.

Look at rookie stats for Aikman, Simms, Elway, Fouts, etc. Bradshaw's is the "best". 38% completion, 110/yards/game, 6 TD, 24 int. Gotta love it. All a lot worse than Manuel, who was openly acknowledged to be raw coming into the league. Are there disturbing signs? You bet. Would I like to see more improvement at this point? Yup. Am I worried if I'm an owner? Absolutely.

But could he turn it around? Undoubtedly.

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I'm not very optimistic about Manuel, but I also recall him playing fairly well last preseason (before he got hurt) and looking good at times during the regular season. All of this talk of how terrible he is is, at least, premature.

Is it though? I mean, it's certainly premature to say that he'll never be good, but if you had to evaluate him overall right now, it's not pretty.

Young QB's get a free pass from me for at least their first two years. I've seen nothing to be optimistic about so far but he still has the raw talent you can't teach.

I also give them a "free pass" in terms of stats, W/L, etc., but that's not why I think he looks bad. "Talent" incorporates a lot of things, and IMO it includes many of the non-physical attributes that he just doesn't seem to have. I'd say he has many of the raw tools that you just can't teach, but he's also missing a few which are extremely important for a QB, and I'm not sure if he can be taught those. Again, still too early to say no for sure, but he's shown little to no improvement on them going back to college.

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I'm not very optimistic about Manuel, but I also recall him playing fairly well last preseason (before he got hurt) and looking good at times during the regular season. All of this talk of how terrible he is is, at least, premature.

Not to those of us that watched Manuel at FSU. He just never wowed me. Well, he did when the Bills drafted him, but it wasnt a good wow. More like a WTF wow. But as a long time Bills fan, I really want him to do well, I just dont think he will ever be what we need in order to succeed. We will be drafting another QB next year I think. Maybe we will have better luck picking one in the second round?

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I'm not very optimistic about Manuel, but I also recall him playing fairly well last preseason (before he got hurt) and looking good at times during the regular season. All of this talk of how terrible he is is, at least, premature.

Is it though? I mean, it's certainly premature to say that he'll never be good, but if you had to evaluate him overall right now, it's not pretty.

Young QB's get a free pass from me for at least their first two years. I've seen nothing to be optimistic about so far but he still has the raw talent you can't teach.

The bolded above is what I don't get. What is his "raw talent"? Good size? Because that is about all I see. He doesn't even have a cannon arm. He's not the brightest rock in the quarry either. I've commented about him in various other threads as well. Even while at FSU he wasn't impressive. I'm not saying he can't be coached up...but it's gonna be a while (if ever) according to what we've seen so far (and historically really dating back to his college days).

I think most rookie QBs will have moderate success at times when thrust into starts since defenses haven't seen game tape and so on. But if that rookie continues to make starts you'll see that defenses start figuring out his tendencies.

Now we are in EJ's 2nd season and defenses have seen game tape on him so he struggles on game days AND it carries over into practices. Not looking good for him. But maybe he will take the Blaine Gabbert route to his NFL success? Errr...wait a minute. :ninja:

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Kid has swag. I think he'll be a winner. He needs to get a few more weapons but Watkins is a start.

You need a big physical receiver opposite Watkins. Spiller is a great dump off. Tight End? I hope they have a blocking Tight End in there.

Woods would excel in the slot.

He has a rocket arm.

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Raw talent? Raw something anyway. Swagger? Really, that's a talent? Some people are delusional. Must be the same folks defending Blaine Gabbert till his hype thread died.

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Raw talent? Raw something anyway. Swagger? Really, that's a talent? Some people are delusional. Must be the same folks defending Blaine Gabbert till his hype thread died.

EJ Manuel. Over / Under 20 TDs?

PS, I knew Gabbert was going to bust. Bortles is going to be a machine.

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Raw talent? Raw something anyway. Swagger? Really, that's a talent? Some people are delusional. Must be the same folks defending Blaine Gabbert till his hype thread died.

EJ Manuel. Over / Under 20 TDs?

PS, I knew Gabbert was going to bust. Bortles is going to be a machine.

Check out my hype threads. :)

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I'm not very optimistic about Manuel, but I also recall him playing fairly well last preseason (before he got hurt) and looking good at times during the regular season. All of this talk of how terrible he is is, at least, premature.

Is it though? I mean, it's certainly premature to say that he'll never be good, but if you had to evaluate him overall right now, it's not pretty.

Young QB's get a free pass from me for at least their first two years. I've seen nothing to be optimistic about so far but he still has the raw talent you can't teach.

The bolded above is what I don't get. What is his "raw talent"? Good size? Because that is about all I see. He doesn't even have a cannon arm. He's not the brightest rock in the quarry either. I've commented about him in various other threads as well. Even while at FSU he wasn't impressive. I'm not saying he can't be coached up...but it's gonna be a while (if ever) according to what we've seen so far (and historically really dating back to his college days).

I think most rookie QBs will have moderate success at times when thrust into starts since defenses haven't seen game tape and so on. But if that rookie continues to make starts you'll see that defenses start figuring out his tendencies.

Now we are in EJ's 2nd season and defenses have seen game tape on him so he struggles on game days AND it carries over into practices. Not looking good for him. But maybe he will take the Blaine Gabbert route to his NFL success? Errr...wait a minute. :ninja:

Great size, speed, and quick release for a start. He doesn't run as well as Kaepernick nor is his arm as strong but he runs well and has a strong enough arm for the NFL.

Eli Manning is the best recent example of a QB who took a long time to develop - in his first 4 years his highest completion rate was 57.7% and his lowest INT rate was 3.1%.

Manuel beat both of these marks his rookie year. In 10 games he more than doubled Eli's best rushing season.

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Eli's been hanging his hat on two late season playoff runs. He's been horrible most of his career. Got any other comps? Personally I like the Byron Leftwich comp someone threw out earlier.

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Eli's been hanging his hat on two late season playoff runs. He's been horrible most of his career. Got any other comps? Personally I like the Byron Leftwich comp someone threw out earlier.

Leftwich is a terrible since his worst aspect was his long windup and Manuel gets rid of the ball quickly.

And Eli's passing with Manuel's running ability would be a damn good QB.

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I didn't see today's game. The box score looks good: 9/13 for 96 yards. Can someone who watched the game comment on whether he looked sharper or was it just good fortune today? Thanks.

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Rotoworld:

E.J. Manuel completed 9-of-13 passes for 96 yards in Friday night's preseason game against the Panthers

Manuel looked more decisive in the pocket this week after struggling in Buffalo's preseason opener. There was still some concern to his game. Manuel took a sack and failed to score touchdowns on both of his red-zone possessions. His longest play was a 32-yard completion to Chris Hogan on the Bills' first drive. Through two preseason games, Manuel has completed 11-of-20 passes for 115 yards with no touchdowns or interceptions. He'll take on the Steelers next week.

Aug 8 - 8:44 PM

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Rotoworld:

E.J. Manuel completed 9-of-13 passes for 96 yards in Friday night's preseason game against the Panthers

Manuel looked more decisive in the pocket this week after struggling in Buffalo's preseason opener. There was still some concern to his game. Manuel took a sack and failed to score touchdowns on both of his red-zone possessions. His longest play was a 32-yard completion to Chris Hogan on the Bills' first drive. Through two preseason games, Manuel has completed 11-of-20 passes for 115 yards with no touchdowns or interceptions. He'll take on the Steelers next week.

Aug 8 - 8:44 PM

The no TDs wasn't really his fault and the sack wasn't really either. Henderson wiffed and let his guy directly through. Much more comfortable in the pocket and he did a better job making sure his receivers were going to be open.

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Rotoworld:

E.J. Manuel completed 9-of-13 passes for 96 yards in Friday night's preseason game against the PanthersManuel looked more decisive in the pocket this week after struggling in Buffalo's preseason opener. There was still some concern to his game. Manuel took a sack and failed to score touchdowns on both of his red-zone possessions. His longest play was a 32-yard completion to Chris Hogan on the Bills' first drive. Through two preseason games, Manuel has completed 11-of-20 passes for 115 yards with no touchdowns or interceptions. He'll take on the Steelers next week.

Aug 8 - 8:44 PM

The no TDs wasn't really his fault and the sack wasn't really either. Henderson wiffed and let his guy directly through. Much more comfortable in the pocket and he did a better job making sure his receivers were going to be open.
Did Manuel attempt to get the ball down the field or was it a lot of dink and dunk? And did he read through his progressions or was he just passing to his first receiver? Edited by OC Zed

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Rotoworld:

E.J. Manuel completed 9-of-13 passes for 96 yards in Friday night's preseason game against the PanthersManuel looked more decisive in the pocket this week after struggling in Buffalo's preseason opener. There was still some concern to his game. Manuel took a sack and failed to score touchdowns on both of his red-zone possessions. His longest play was a 32-yard completion to Chris Hogan on the Bills' first drive. Through two preseason games, Manuel has completed 11-of-20 passes for 115 yards with no touchdowns or interceptions. He'll take on the Steelers next week.

Aug 8 - 8:44 PM

The no TDs wasn't really his fault and the sack wasn't really either. Henderson wiffed and let his guy directly through. Much more comfortable in the pocket and he did a better job making sure his receivers were going to be open.
Did Manuel attempt to get the ball down the field or was it a lot of dink and dunk? And did he read through his progressions or was he just passing to his first receiver?

Pretty good job throwing down field. And it wasn't just those fly routes where he always throws it out of bounds either. He was throwing some deep posts.

As for his reads, it was a mix. He clearly has a receiver picked out quite a few times, but a number of them were quick screens or quick slants and you can't really know if it was his pre-snap read or the call from the coaches. There were also two times where he saw his first option in 1-on-1 coverage and threw with anticipation which was a good tthing IMO.

His best read was where he went to his 2nd or 3rd option and saw Williams breaking open down field on an inside post and threw it up for him to go up and get.

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I saw a little of that game. He's got a real connection with Mike Williams going. Sorry Woods owners. Better than his first game, but still threw some high screens that got his targets blown up, and one pass he threw behind his target, might have been some miscommunication. Big takeaway is the Mike Williams connection.

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So one bad performance and one good performance in the preseason so far for Manuel? About what you would expect from a 2nd year QB who missed half his rookie year with injuries. The jury remains out.

Edited by OC Zed

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So one bad performance and one good performance in the preseason so far for Manuel? About what you would expect from a 2nd year QB who missed half his rookie year with injuries. The jury remains out.

I wouldn't call his second game good. More like one completely horrendous performance and one not completely horrendous performance.

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I wish Glennon was given the same ride.

That's the difference between a 1st round pick and 3rd round pick.

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I wish Glennon was given the same ride.

That's the difference between a 1st round pick and 3rd round pick.

And the difference between a statue and a guy who can make plays with his feet.

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Manuel looked like he hasn't made any progress what-so-ever from his rookie season. I guess it's not that bad seeing how he was injured last year, but even still you want to see something. He looked a little skiddish in the pocket and held the ball a bit too long. He's really in the bottom tier of quarterbacks.

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Manuel looked like he hasn't made any progress what-so-ever from his rookie season. I guess it's not that bad seeing how he was injured last year, but even still you want to see something. He looked a little skiddish in the pocket and held the ball a bit too long. He's really in the bottom tier of quarterbacks.

Did you watch the game against the Panthers? He'd looked pretty good to me.

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Manuel looked like he hasn't made any progress what-so-ever from his rookie season. I guess it's not that bad seeing how he was injured last year, but even still you want to see something. He looked a little skiddish in the pocket and held the ball a bit too long. He's really in the bottom tier of quarterbacks.

Which game/practice are you referring to?

Because holding on to the ball too long has been a problems quite a bit for Manuel, but it wasn't at all Friday night. Friday night he was very decisive and getting rid of the ball quickly. He even anticipated receivers getting open and threw it before they were open a few times.

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