ghostguy123
Footballguy
It just seemed that way at first until I actually started paying attention, and I think I was referring to like ONE game anyway. Good cherry pick.
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The Trent Richardson Thread (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter False Start
- Start date
ghostguy123
Footballguy
And yes, to justify giving a 1st rounder for a RB, than RB needs to make more probowls than almost any other position to make it worth it (outside of K, P, and FB)
So you are saying if a kicker is a 1st round pick and makes 5 probowls it was a good pick??
I think we need to get back to the short yardage back arguments. Those made more sense.
So you are saying if a kicker is a 1st round pick and makes 5 probowls it was a good pick??
I think we need to get back to the short yardage back arguments. Those made more sense.
Jrodicus
Footballguy
Complete straw man here. You are the one saying 1st round picks need to make a certain number of Pro Bowls to justify their draft spot.
I don't think there's a hard criteria to say when a player has "justified" their first round status. But, if I were to pick one, I'd say length of career is a pretty good indicator that a player is adding value to his team.
Jrodicus
Footballguy
Ah...so when you made that statement you weren't paying attention, didn't know what you were talking about, and were still posting anyway.
Now you really DO know what you're talking about...honest.
If Trent shapes up in the future, I look forward to you saying you had it right the first time and were just paying too much attention to the haters....honest.
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
No need to fight about this. Most know he sucks. Some still believe otherwise. Just give them an e-hug and when the last of the believers realize he sucks, please don't mock them. I'm sure if they turn out to be right, they won't mock us.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I will be happy to say I was wrong about Richardson if he turns it around and becomes good. You have any evidence that I wouldnt??
And yeah, I think after watching a dozen games I have a better grasp on what was really going on than I did after one game. I guess at the time i was in denial that he was really that bad.
I was also one of the very few people that didn't label him as a stud before he was drafted. I thought he woukd be pretty good, but was a FAR cry from all the Peterson talk people were throwing around.
But he is an effective short yardage rb. Well worth a 1st.
And yeah, I think after watching a dozen games I have a better grasp on what was really going on than I did after one game. I guess at the time i was in denial that he was really that bad.
I was also one of the very few people that didn't label him as a stud before he was drafted. I thought he woukd be pretty good, but was a FAR cry from all the Peterson talk people were throwing around.
But he is an effective short yardage rb. Well worth a 1st.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
How many more years of terrible running will it take for them to come around though? Will we hear the "he is still young, he is only 27" talk???
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
But I tell you, there is something pretty cool about being the last holdouts of an dying idea.
Jrodicus
Footballguy
I don't think he has to be as good as Peterson, probably the greatest RB of this generation, or make it to 3-4 Pro Bowls to mean he was worth the 26th pick in the draft.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
No, but he sure needs to play about 5x better than he has so far in his career. And before you try and tell me he looked like a top talent in 2012, I will already reply to you and tell you that you are wrong.
Jrodicus
Footballguy
There's a difference between saying, "This guy is a stud," and "It's a bit too early to completely write this guy off as a bust."
There's many people saying the latter; at worst case, we're behind the curve. There's also many saying the former and selling him for pennies on the dollar (in dynasty leagues); at worst case, they gave away a very valuable player for dirt-cheap.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Anything is possible. Richardson could still be good. But if he can still be good, then so can every other player in the league. At that point, what are you really saying??
Jrodicus
Footballguy
The same thing a number of other people are saying:
It's been 2 years, and 1 of them involved an in-season trade. It's too soon, imo, to write him off.
You act like he ran bad when he was with the Browns..?There's a difference between saying, "This guy is a stud," and "It's a bit too early to completely write this guy off as a bust."
There's many people saying the latter; at worst case, we're behind the curve. There's also many saying the former and selling him for pennies on the dollar (in dynasty leagues); at worst case, they gave away a very valuable player for dirt-cheap.
like the dude said above everyones writing him off after 2 seasons. 1 good season (rookie year/broken ribs) and a season where he was traded halfway through. Everything is just opinion based until we see what he can do with a full offseason under his belt. Hopefully the Colts help out that line too.
MAC_32
Footballguy
he has some special qualities once getting to the open field. The problem is getting there. He hasnt. He dances, dances, and dances...by the time he decides what he is going to do it is too late.Correctable? Maybe, maybe not. If corrected he has a career though. Protypical build wi a few extra lbs and speed to burn. That is a pretty rare combo. He reminds me a lot of a more powerful Reggie Bush. We will see if their career trajectory matches.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I guess maybe we differ on what "writing him off" means.
I think he has like a 5% chance of being a good productive RB worthy of anything close to what his value was a year ago. I am not 100% writing him off, but real close. At this point I will give a mid 2nd for him just for the fun of owning him
ghostguy123
Footballguy
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
You can't just completely ignore everything that happened in a season because he was traded during it (not nearly "halfway through", by the way).
By the last quarter of the year he had spent more than a full NFL offseason's worth of time with the team and still ran really, really poorly. Significantly more poorly than a completely forgotten Donald Brown playing the same role. Significantly more poorly than Ahmad Bradshaw did with Indy even though Bradshaw had even LESS time with the team going into his Indy starts than Richardson had with the team going into his last few games, where again, he was still really bad.
If 3 months in a system isn't enough time to learn it then that is a bad thing, not a good one. Is it your intention to say that Richardson is going to run for 4-5ypc in a normal year but revert back to 2ypc every time the Colts get a new offensive coordinator and Richardson has "only" 2-3 months to learn that new system?
Also, aside from fantasy purposes, it's hard to say that Richardson's rookie year was "good". By all accounts, a better description is that he had one below average year with a lot of carries to boost the end of year totals a bit, and one year that was among the worst in NFL history for running backs.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Yeah, people BADLY overlook this.
He had a couple good games and some nice runs, but the season as a whole was nothing remotely close to being special in any way. But he did well for fantasy pruposes.
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
Yeah. I agree with most of the things you said there.There's a difference between saying, "This guy is a stud," and "It's a bit too early to completely write this guy off as a bust."
There's many people saying the latter; at worst case, we're behind the curve. There's also many saying the former and selling him for pennies on the dollar (in dynasty leagues); at worst case, they gave away a very valuable player for dirt-cheap.
squistion
Footballguy
I think that might be a little harsh, but there are parallels. Leaf actually looked good in the preseason his rookie year and had flashes of promise in his rather brief career, but it gradually became apparent that he just didn't have it and didn't get much support (either on the record or off) from teammates. In that light, Scott Fujita's mixed comments on Richardson (after he left the Browns) are interesting:
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/09/cleveland_browns_ex-lb_scott_f.html
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tone1oc
Footballguy
Can we please stop saying he was traded halfway through the season. It was after 2 games or 1/4 of halfway through the season. He played only 3 less game for the Colts than he did in 1+ years with the Browns.
If this dead horse is going to get beat to death, I feel like we should stop fabricating things.
If this dead horse is going to get beat to death, I feel like we should stop fabricating things.
Jrodicus
Footballguy
I agree that it wasn't "half-way through the season," but missing all of trainig camp and getting traded in-season, regardless if it's week 2 or week 12, is still a difficult thing. Everybody is expected to know the playbook before the end of preseason; once the regular season starts, practices are spent game plannig for next week's opponent and adding a few wrinkles. It's not like everyone goes back and works on learning the system.
Jrodicus
Footballguy
He was WAAAAY over-hyped a year ago. Hos chances of living up to the hype even before this year was probably only 10%.
It'd be tough for him to ever live up to the hype, but even if he doesn't, that doesn't mean he still can't have a decent career or be good for fantasy purposes.
MAC_32
Footballguy
it is difficult to get integrated after the season has began coaches aren't focused on building the foundation anymore they are concentrating on the next opponent.
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
as someone who almost never gives up on prospects early and was a huge proponent of Trent (had him as a top 5 overall dynasty pick), even i gave up on him.
It could be a motivation or lack of confidence thing and he turns it around, but he just looks flat out awful.
Pulling for him to not end up on the biggest busts ever shows 10 years down the road.
It could be a motivation or lack of confidence thing and he turns it around, but he just looks flat out awful.
Pulling for him to not end up on the biggest busts ever shows 10 years down the road.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Gandalf
Footballguy
Agree to agree. Crazy how wrong I was on him coming out of college. Ah well, learn from it and move on.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Well here's the thing. There migth be a come who comes along in a couple years with the EXACT same skillset as T-rich, but with a different brain, and he will be really good.
Being wrong on a guy sometimes doesnt mean you were wrong on his talent (although I never thought his talent was elite or anywhere near worth the top 3 pick we used on him). It's really hard to know how someone will adjust to the league, how hard they will work, how their body responds to the NFL, and a million other factors that are hard to predict past what his body type and physical abilities are.
Gandalf
Footballguy
That's true. I think part of it was that I wanted to believe the hype because I had a great draft pick when he was a rookie. I mean it's not every day you get a chance at a rookie RB who could be elite. But I think I ignored the red flags. Denial. You are right though, the next guy with his skill set might have better vision or avoid off season sex tapes or be able to digest a play book better, etc. It's a case by case assessment.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Yeah well, unfortunately you just never know who a guy really is. Not a whole lot you can do about that.
joey
Footballguy
I'm not kicking myself for taking him at 1.01 in a rookie draft and 1.07 in a start up a couple of years ago. If he busts, he busts. He would be an epic bust at that, but I think I took the best young RB on the board with the info at hand. Going to hold him until he either turns it around or has another horrible season.
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cstu
Footballguy
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
IMO that's a pretty smart way to go in today's NFL -- bunch of cheap guys with complementary strengths playing specific roles. Definitely sucks for FF though.
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
I never had the opportunity to draft him, but if I had the 1.01 that year, I would have. He seemed to be a pretty good bet at the time.joey said:
I am buying him for now, granted at a pretty low price, but I think he can still be a top 10 RB for fantasy purpose. I agree that he's not the uber-stud we all thought he would be, but I see enough good attributes sprinkled in between the terrible plays that tell me he can be a heavy contributor for a team.
His vision is terrible and he doesn't hit the hole fast or aggressive enough, but he is still very hard to bring down in the open field with his balance and quick moves. I have to think that Pagano is under immense pressure to find ways to get him the ball in open space and justify that trade. I'll even take 2.9 yards per carry as long as I'm getting 4-5 catches a game for 40 yards and 10 total TDs on the year.
And at 22 years old he is still very young and possibly very stupid. I remember landing a nice job at 21 years old and getting fired two years later because I was more interested in having fun with the salary than building a foundation for the rest of my life. After struggling to find work I got my focus straight at 24 years old. I think there is a lot of truth in what Scott Fujita said. Maybe something will click in the next year or two and we'll see a more focused and determined Trent.
For those who are selling, if you are getting decent value it's one thing, but I wouldn't dump him for pennies just yet. Unfortunately you may have to waste a roster spot for a couple more years, but it's better than watching him blow up after you got next to nothing for him.
His vision is terrible and he doesn't hit the hole fast or aggressive enough, but he is still very hard to bring down in the open field with his balance and quick moves. I have to think that Pagano is under immense pressure to find ways to get him the ball in open space and justify that trade. I'll even take 2.9 yards per carry as long as I'm getting 4-5 catches a game for 40 yards and 10 total TDs on the year.
And at 22 years old he is still very young and possibly very stupid. I remember landing a nice job at 21 years old and getting fired two years later because I was more interested in having fun with the salary than building a foundation for the rest of my life. After struggling to find work I got my focus straight at 24 years old. I think there is a lot of truth in what Scott Fujita said. Maybe something will click in the next year or two and we'll see a more focused and determined Trent.
For those who are selling, if you are getting decent value it's one thing, but I wouldn't dump him for pennies just yet. Unfortunately you may have to waste a roster spot for a couple more years, but it's better than watching him blow up after you got next to nothing for him.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Trent Richardson was spotted at Morton's Steakhouse in NYC 2 nights ago. He reached into his pocket, pulled out his wallet which he then dropped. A hooker in 6 inch stilettos grabbed it off the ground and outran Trent to the door... He has been washing and dropping dishes since.
cstu
Footballguy
I wasn't able to draft him either, but I fell for the 'physical freak' hype even though it turns out that he's probably not even faster than Carlos Hyde.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
I think close to 100% of everyone would have taken him with rookie 1.01 that year. It's the people that traded 1.01 startup value to get him that made the crushing mistake -- but that holds true for any rookie IMO. There's truly no such thing as "can't miss."
cstu
Footballguy
In my startup last year:
1.02 - Trent Richardson - So many choices, going with safe one for years to come.
No offense to the guy who wrote that, I felt the same way.
Archer
Footballguy
You clearly never saw him run in his tight spandex pants. No hooker would run away from him.
Jrodicus
Footballguy
Is that the opening scene of his porno?You clearly never saw him run in his tight spandex pants. No hooker would run away from him.
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
Yes. Of course drafting in a startup dynasty is a horrible way to disperse players. People are starting to learn that now. I know, this is a different conversation altogether now.
pghrob
Hail to the Chief
At the time he came into the league, Richardson was unanimously the best rookie rb, considered by most the best back to come into the league since ADP.
All the experts were wrong. We are all in good company.
mr roboto
Footballguy
I spoke to someone today who is related to one of the starting Colts O-lineman today. This person said according to the O-lineman, Brown is likely gone. Players have big doubts about Trent. No vision, runs with his head down, doesn't see the hole. Players think he's being kept and will play because GM has to save face.
