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CB Richard Sherman (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ImTheScientist
- Start date
Hooper31
Footballguy
You do understand that most of the receptions being made aren't being caught by receivers that Sherman is covering, right?
Look, I'm the first guy to say that Sherman isn't the best all around CB in the league, but trying to find minutia to somehow make him look bad is just as stupid as making arguments that he's the best.
Hooper31
Footballguy
I wouldn't say he "torched" Browner. That was a hell of a good throw into a small window.
Hilton did have a TD over the top on Sherman's side of the field, but Pete Carroll addressed that play in his weekly press conference the following day. They were in zone and Earl Thomas was responsible for deep coverage on that play. That wasn't on Sherman either.
seahawk 17
Footballguy
I don't think Sherman is the best in the NFL and I don't think he is a shut down corner. I do feel that he is a complete CB and one of the best.
I do grow tired of people thinking that he has no skills, that's plain ignorance.
I do grow tired of people thinking that he has no skills, that's plain ignorance.
Nucker101
Footballguy
Meh, I just feel like "shutdown" corners are held to such a high standard. No one calls out the elite WR's when they have an off gnaw every few weeks, or an elite pass rusher that goes multiple games without a sack. IMO A player should still be considered a shutdown corner as long as they rank near the top in categories like completion percentage against, yards allowed per game, etc. Once in awhile they will have a subpar game, teams these days use lots of unique ways to get the ball into the hands of their top receivers(screens, short crosses/slants, WR pick plays, et.) which sometimes leaves the DB helpless against a completion.Not to mention that a WR can run a bad route a few times in a game and still have a good game overall, a DB can have one or two blown coverages and be great the rest of the game but still look bad in the viewer's eyes.
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seahawk 17
Footballguy
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packseasontix
Footballguy
Well lets be real then and count ACTUAL TOP WRs instead of some middle of the road WRs (not saying Sherman covered anyone though just saying against the Seahawks in general)
Elite WRs:
Steve Smith - 6 for 51 + 1 TD - Good Day (Average for the year)
Andre - 9 for 110 (above average for year) - one of the worst games for the Hawks on defense
Good WRs:
Boldin - Got shut down (1 great, 3 good, 3 bad games this season)
Shorts - 8 for 143 (above average for year) - can't blame Shorts for the Hawks taking out players stats are stats
Wayne - 6 for 65 (average game for year) - "shut down" as one Seahawks fan calls it is ludicrous as this is his normal week and he can't help that Hilton was torching the Seahawks for 150 and 2 TDs
Hilton - 5 for 150 (above average)
Fitzgerald - 2 for 17(worst game of season)
Below Average WR Games:
Britt - 1 for 7 (had 0 or 1 catch in every game but 1 this season)
In the end you can say Fitz and Wayne are still elite but one had a very average year last year with below average work at QB and the other is on the wrong side of 30 and doesn't deserve a title other than was an elite WR who is still a great WR but just a little bit past his best days.
Also, the Seahawks are one of the best out there but you can't say they are shutting down the #1 each week as that is just false when they are getting the yards and catches that they normally get in a given week (give or take a TD)
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biju
Footballguy
Well, you just changed the context of my email by removing the included thread. The original thread I responded to said "2 of 7" on shutting down the top receiver of the opposing team. So, congrats on winning the argument I wasn't making.
packseasontix
Footballguy
Umm nope because they haven't "shut down" your supposed 6 of 7. Have they not allowed the WRs to go off for their best game of the year? Nope but they hardly shut down the opposing #1 except for (SF, ARI, TEN). Yes they are one of the best defenses I want to stress that but they are not a secondary that shuts down the best wideout and allows them 20 yards each week.
seahawk 17
Footballguy
But they are the 2nd best defense in the league against the pass.
Nicknames are not given, they are earned. LEGION OF BOOM
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I agree with what you wrote except this, if you can say this about Wayne, you have to say it about Smith. Both are well into their 30's and Wayne had a better year last year then Smith and was having a better year this year.
solorca
Footballguy
solorca
Footballguy
When I made my original post, it should have read that they shutdown 2 out of 6. The Cardinals game hadn't happened yet at that point... I just made a mistake.
Smith, Shorts, Andre, and Kendall Wright all performed at or above their season average, so that's definitely not a shutdown.
Boldin was a definite shutdown. I gave credit for a Reggie Wayne shutdown, even though it wasn't far off from his average.
Whether it was Sherman on them or not doesn't matter. The purpose of this thread was to claim that Seattle is a bad WR play because Sherman will shut them down. The actual stats disprove that though.
The only truly bad shutdown at the time of my post was Boldin. Fitzgerald is a second one now.
Smith, Shorts, Andre, and Kendall Wright all performed at or above their season average, so that's definitely not a shutdown.
Boldin was a definite shutdown. I gave credit for a Reggie Wayne shutdown, even though it wasn't far off from his average.
Whether it was Sherman on them or not doesn't matter. The purpose of this thread was to claim that Seattle is a bad WR play because Sherman will shut them down. The actual stats disprove that though.
The only truly bad shutdown at the time of my post was Boldin. Fitzgerald is a second one now.
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seahawk 17
Footballguy
solorca
Footballguy
How so? The very first post (I. E. the purpose of the thread) suggested that people bench their WR because they are playing against Sherman. The actual performance of top receivers hasn't warranted that though.I would post the quote here, but I'm on my phone and multi-quoting is difficult. Feel free to go back and read the opening post though, and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about.seahawk 17 said:
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solorca
Footballguy
Clearly... because why would it matter if Sherman is "shutting down" an opponent if they are getting plenty of yards/catches against everyone else on the team?
You can't have it both ways. If you suggest that people should bench their top receivers because Sherman will shut them down, you can't then claim that it's not Sherman's fault the receiver still put up numbers.
solorca
Footballguy
Here's the opening post of the thread. I think it's pretty clear what's being suggested.Argue semantics all you like as it relates to this thread, but the point is quite obvious. Top receivers aren't auto-benches against Seattle because of Sherman.
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Neofight
Footballguy
seahawk 17
Footballguy
Hooper31
Footballguy
The guys that made that post is a tool. Seahawks fans are regularly embarrassed by his over the top homer behavior. Arguing with a guy like ITS doesn't make you look any more intelligent. It makes you look stupid for attempting to engage him in any form of conversation.
BassNBrew
Footballguy
ITS isn't the only one ! Listening to the hawk fans in here you would think Deion/Revis/Lott/Reed in their prime are starting for the hawks.
Hooper31
Footballguy
This is why ITS annoys me so much. Its inevitable that other board members start to label other Seattle fans with his toolish behavior. I've read a lot of your posts through the years BNB. I respect your opinions, but I'm disappointed you would generalize like this.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
as to the legion of boom...
browner's play has slipped... reportedly he was benched briefly, recently.
chancellor is very good, not sure if he is the best SS in league (berry pro bowler)...
earl thomas is the best FS in the game, having the best season of his career, and has evolved into best overall safety (if he wasn't already).
browner's play has slipped... reportedly he was benched briefly, recently.
chancellor is very good, not sure if he is the best SS in league (berry pro bowler)...
earl thomas is the best FS in the game, having the best season of his career, and has evolved into best overall safety (if he wasn't already).
seahawk 17
Footballguy
I totally agree with this statement, and I think that he has probably played himself out of a contract extension. He has been burnt on several plays and reverted to some bad habits this season. In addition, Walter Thurmond III is a quality CB who could start and there would be no drop off in talent.
Hooper31
Footballguy
I'm not sure I agree with this. Obviously we'll have to wait out the season to know for sure, but other than a few specific plays i think Browner has played fine. He let Hilton get behind him twice, but other than that I'm not too worried. The coaching staff benched him for a part of one game to send the message. For the most part I think message was received and play last week was fine. Time will tell.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
It's usually the non Hawk fans that either make the legendary comparisons or they just say that Hawk fans said it.
GrantK
Footballguy
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ImTheScientist
Footballguy
VJAX getting locked down.
BassNBrew
Footballguy
BassNBrew
Footballguy
I hate games like these. There's a chance if Seattle plays up to their capabilities that they are up 3+ TDs early. If it's a competitive game I wouldn't play Vjax. If it's a blow out, he could thrive in garbage time.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
I haven't seen anyone say that....I would appriciate the link to back it up though.
Its way to early in the career of the majority of the L.O.B. to determine where they will fall when its all said and done. Browner is the weak link by far, fun to watch though.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Read his post...nowhere does he claim people have actually said it...so a link to back up something he did not say is pretty ridiculous to ask for.
devouredbychaos
Footballguy
Sherman is mediocre at best. The PEDs speak volumes. I'd rather have Talib.
silentcoach
Footballguy
According to Football Outsider's stats, Seattle is ranked 27th versus opposing team number 1 wrs (22nd versus number 2 wrs).
see: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef
see: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef
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BassNBrew
Footballguy
And this is where I'll back up the Hawks. At some point in time the eye test has to come into play. Against Jax they gave up 51 yards rushing and had a 31-0 lead 3 plays into the second half. No wonder they gave up yards to Shorts in abundance. If the score had been closer, I doubt Jax would have accumulated 235 passing yards.
thecardiackid
Footballguy
on the bench right now for gordon, k allen, and boykin, but that depends on james jones. if he looks like he's going to play, i'll swap vjax for boykin.
re: the SEA pass D, i agree they're better when the games are close. problem is i don't think TB will be anywhere near close by the 2nd qtr. w/ only VJax as a real threat. williams is done and the new RB hasn't done much. glennon @ SEA could get ugly early. definitely playing the SEA D this week.
seahawk 17
Footballguy
I think that Seattle has the best secondary in the league...so what? Sherman is one of the best CB's in the league and Thomas/Chancellor are the best Safety tandem in years. Browner is no scrub.BassNBrew said:
Here is a quote from Sherman on the matter.
Sherman considers himself the best left cornerback in the game, Brandon Browner the best right cornerback, Earl Thomas the best free safety and Kam Chancellor the best strong safety.
“I think we’re the best in the game,” Sherman said. “We’ve got the best free safety in the game, probably the best left corner, best right corner — we don’t switch sides, so we can’t be like other guys who switch sides and do all that. But we can be the best right corner, best left corner, best strong safety in the game.”
Hoss Style
Footballguy
True, Bass. So maybe we bump them up a bit - maybe even to the likes of 10th in the league vs. number 1s? Still a far cry from all the "best in years" or even "best in the league".BassNBrew said:
sho nuff
Footballguy
And while we can back them up as far as "real world" pass defense with that rationale...the same logic would mean that FF wise, they do still give up points...even if in garbage time. Packers have done this as well (look at the games against Washington and Minnesota)
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seahawk 17
Footballguy
Seattle is #3 against the pass and leads the league in interceptions. What more can you ask from your secondary?
silentcoach
Footballguy
Exactly. All we care about is FANTASY stats. Fantasy wise, they allow point whether it is garbage time or not. Did you see them versus Arizona a few weeks back after they had the game in hand? Blah.
The worst thing that can happen to VJax owners is to have the game be close, because then seattle will try (to those that subscribe to the "garbage points" theory).
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Breesisdaman
Footballguy
Has the Seahawks faced a real passing team other than the Colts this year? Im not saying the Seahawks have a bad pass defense but I am saying the numbers might be a little skewed based on the passing competition. If you guys had teams like the Bronco's, Patriots and Saints on that schedule I would tend to believe the numbers a bit more.
PainTrain
Footballguy
"His four interceptions might not seem greateven though he's tied for the league lead. But consider that those interceptions came on just 40 passes thrown his way. That means he has picked off 10 percent of all passes thrown in his direction.
When not intercepting passes, Sherman holds opposing quarterbacks to a passer rating of just 53.6. That's No. 4 in the league among starting corners."
http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/1832301-the-top-50-players-at-the-nfls-midseason-mark/page/47
When not intercepting passes, Sherman holds opposing quarterbacks to a passer rating of just 53.6. That's No. 4 in the league among starting corners."
http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/1832301-the-top-50-players-at-the-nfls-midseason-mark/page/47
sho nuff
Footballguy
Agreed...they are a very good/great secondary. No doubt about that.
But it does not seem wise to just bench anyone against them...especially when Sherman typically does not follow a #1 WR from side to side.
seahawk 17
Footballguy
Stats can be manipulated. Stating that they are #3 is throwing you haters a bone.Acrobat7 said:
