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Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid

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1 minute ago, zftcg said:

I mean, at least he didn't do it twice like Eli. And I suppose it's possible he audibled to it based on something he saw in Philly's alignment. But overall, yeah, that was bad clock management.

 Yep. Sometimes even if it works, it’s still stupid. ;) 

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3 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

As for “saying McVay is dumb, or beyond dumb”, that’s something you projected. Which is a bit weird, since you quoted my entire post, yet nowhere in my post did I once say McVay was either “dumb” or “beyond dumb”.  Nowhere on this forum have I said that, for that matter because I do not think McVay is either “dumb” or “beyond dumb”.

"i don’t hesitate to call it “dumb” and it belongs in this topic." ..."Since they won, it doesn’t really matter, but it was still dumb."

Your words not mine.  But feel free to continue to talk in circles and backtrack.

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Just now, Rodrigo Duterte said:

"i don’t hesitate to call it “dumb” and it belongs in this topic." ..."Since they won, it doesn’t really matter, but it was still dumb."

Your words not mine.  But feel free to continue to talk in circles and backtrack.

Not everyone who does something dumb is a dumb person. Sometimes smart people do dumb things. He can say McVay did something dumb without calling McVay dumb.

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1 hour ago, apalmer said:

Not everyone who does something dumb is a dumb person. Sometimes smart people do dumb things. He can say McVay did something dumb without calling McVay dumb.

I understand that.  But claiming he was making dumb decisions is akin to it.

Regardless of semantics, I am allowed to disagree with his take (although not without him going berserk), am I not?

Look, the John Fox's and Jason Garret's of the NFL never get over the top due to that same conservative, play-not-to-lose mentality that is all too prevalent in the NFL.  Pederson took out the Patriots and won the Superbowl by making unexpected play-calls.  They won't always work but they do so far more than the predictable, fetal-position play-calling that Sauce Guy is advocating.  Thus, I couldn't disagree more with his take.

McVay is a brilliant young football mind who is going to win a Superbowl.  Probably a few of them.  And it's precisely because he has the balls to go outside the box and gamble.  Not unlike guys like Parcells and Jimmie Johnson did.

Edited by Rodrigo Duterte

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On 11/12/2018 at 4:39 PM, Rodrigo Duterte said:

I understand that.  But claiming he was making dumb decisions is akin to it.

Regardless of semantics, I am allowed to disagree with his take (although not without him going berserk), am I not?

Look, the John Fox's and Jason Garret's of the NFL never get over the top due to that same conservative, play-not-to-lose mentality that is all too prevalent in the NFL.  Pederson took out the Patriots and won the Superbowl by making unexpected play-calls.  They won't always work but they do so far more than the predictable, fetal-position play-calling that Sauce Guy is advocating.  Thus, I couldn't disagree more with his take.

McVay is a brilliant young football mind who is going to win a Superbowl.  Probably a few of them.  And it's precisely because he has the balls to go outside the box and gamble.  Not unlike guys like Parcells and Jimmie Johnson did.

“Fetal position” by running with Gurley (the best rb in football) occasionally?  As HSG mentioned in his post, Seattle didn’t have an answer for Gurley.  We aren’t talking about killing some clock with Peyton Barber here.  I think the positive expected value play would have been to call a few running plays in that situation but that’s just my opinion.

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15 minutes ago, fred_1_15301 said:

“Fetal position” by running with Gurley (the best rb in football) occasionally?  As HSG mentioned in his post, Seattle didn’t have an answer for Gurley.  We aren’t talking about killing some clock with Peyton Barber here.  I think the positive expected value play would have been to call a few running plays in that situation but that’s just my opinion.

It is not "obviously stupid" (which is what this thread is about) to continue throwing there. Certainly there are many examples in this very thread of "why did you stop throwing, your offense was working great until you just ran it into the line three times". 

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Just now, ShamrockPride said:

McCarthy. Nice punt.

And non-challenge after having a minute plus to look at a replay that couldn’t have more clearly shown that was incomplete.  

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22 minutes ago, ShamrockPride said:

McCarthy. Nice punt.

The fact that Aaron Rodgers wasted the prime of his career with this guy makes me irrationally angry. 

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30 minutes ago, ShamrockPride said:

McCarthy. Nice punt.

 Gutless decision.  One of the most overrated head coaches I've ever seen in any sport. 

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37 minutes ago, ShamrockPride said:

McCarthy. Nice punt.

Terrible call, but it let Seattle coaches escape the spotlight for their questionable play calling this year as well. 

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8 hours ago, ShamrockPride said:

McCarthy. Nice punt.

What a complete moron. So what if you don't get the 1st down. They get a short field. If they score, you then get the ball and 4 downs to move the chains and a chance to tie it even win the game. That clown was 'playing the numbers'' but the number was zero chance of winning. He's got to go.

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8 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

 Gutless decision.  One of the most overrated head coaches I've ever seen in any sport. 

Yep, when the Pack win it's despite him. LeBron would've had him fired 2-3 years ago.

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11 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

 Gutless decision.  One of the most overrated head coaches I've ever seen in any sport. 

Overrated by whom?

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13 hours ago, ShamrockPride said:

McCarthy. Nice punt.

 I have bigger issues with the non-challenge of the Tyler Lockett catch that proceeded that. 

 Even in real time I Saul the ball moving and thought it warranted a challenge in such a critical moment of the game. 

 But reportedly they did not challenge because they only had one timeout left? That is infinitely more gutless them not going for it on fourth down. 

 You absolutely have to challenge that. That was a game changing wussy move. 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy

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48 minutes ago, matuski said:

When I watch that game - I'm blaming the QB before the coach. :shrug:

Agreed. That last possession was on Rogers for sure... some of the sacks as well... just holding on to the ball too long. Not his best performance.

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2 hours ago, Dizzy said:

Agreed. That last possession was on Rogers for sure... some of the sacks as well... just holding on to the ball too long. Not his best performance.

Agreed he didn't play his best, but it just goes to show how dependent GB is on Rodgers being at his elite best in order to compete.  Anything less and they will lose.

Wilson was pretty bad most of the first half, but Seattle was able to overcome that and win the game as a team.   

Not challenging the 34 yard Lockett catch when you had a couple minutes to review due to the injury is inexcusable.  As was punting the ball back to Seattle with 4 minutes left and only one time out when your defense was getting shredded.  Jones 6 touches in 2nd half.  Really bad coaching last night for GB

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On 11/14/2018 at 11:50 AM, CalBear said:

It is not "obviously stupid" (which is what this thread is about) to continue throwing there. Certainly there are many examples in this very thread of "why did you stop throwing, your offense was working great until you just ran it into the line three times". 

Q: Why let the resident troll control the narrative when you know that he constantly misrepresents people‘s posts? 

 I never said they should run Gurley into the line 3 times.  That would be equally preposterous to what they actually did too. 

 And what they did was  utterly ignore late game clock management. On three entire 4th quarter drives, they ran the ball once.    Twice, if you count the ridiculous trick play where they tried to get even more cute, and lost 6 yards on a Woods carry. Two of those drives resulted in quick punts and one resulted in scoring but took less than 2 minutes off of the clock. 

 As I clearly stated, I believe the Rams coaching staff to be one of the most creative and intelligent in the game. (so you can also disregard the troll’s statement to the contrary since I never said anything remotely like that) -  however, in that situation they failed to run any clock, and essentially let their opponent stay in the game by giving them extra possessions. 

 And considering the one running play they called for Todd Gurley he ran for 7 yards,  one could likely argue that the Rams could have taken four or five minutes off the clock with a more balanced approach  and a focus on extending the drive and burning the clock.  One could also argue there would’ve been greater value in a three and out, even if they’d run it into the line 3x, for the sole reason that the clock would continue to run as compared to the incomplete passes that they did “execute” which resulted in clock stoppage. 

 This is a coaching staff that has been criticized in the past for getting pass heavy. Thus, I am not the first to point it out. However, this is the first time I can recall that they got pass happy that late in a game while nursing a very small lead. And it almost cost them the game. 

 And so I still think that was kind of stupid. 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy

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3 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Q: Why let the resident troll control the narrative when you know that he constantly misrepresents people‘s posts? 

 I never said they should run Gurley into the line 3 times.  That would be equally preposterous to what they actually did too. 

 And what they did was  utterly ignore late game clock management. On three entire 4th quarter drives, they ran the ball once.    Twice, if you count the ridiculous trick play where they tried to get even more cute, and lost 6 yards on a Woods carry. Two of those drives resulted in quick punts and one resulted in scoring but took less than 2 minutes off of the clock. 

 As I clearly stated, I believe the Rams coaching staff to be one of the most creative and intelligent in the game. (so you can also disregard the troll’s statement to the contrary since I never said anything remotely like that) -  however, in that situation they failed to run any clock, and essentially let their opponent stay in the game by giving them extra possessions. 

 And considering the one running play they called for Todd Gurley he ran for 7 yards,  one could likely argue that the Rams could have taken four or five minutes off the clock with a more balanced approach  and a focus on extending the drive and burning the clock.  One could also argue there would’ve been greater value in a three and out, even if they’d run it into the line 3x, for the sole reason that the clock would continue to run as compared to the incomplete passes that they did “execute” which resulted in clock stoppage. 

 This is a coaching staff that has been criticized in the past for getting pass heavy. Thus, I am not the first to point it out. However, this is the first time I can recall that they got pass happy that late in a game while nursing a very small lead. And it almost cost them the game. 

 And so I still think that was kind of stupid. 

I've always found the "run vs pass" debate to be overly simplistic. There are very different kinds of runs and passes, and it depends on defensive alignments as well. (Best example of this is after SB 51, when Shanahan was criticized for calling too many passes. On one of those plays, he had a WR wide open behind the secondary, and if Freeman doesn't whiff on the blitz pickup it's a TD, Atlanta puts the game away, and none of us are talking about play selection. Instead, Hightower got a strip sack.)

In this specific case, I think the debate has obscured the main point of your criticism, which is that whatever their play calls, the Rams did a horrible job of bleeding the clock. 

For most of a football game, yards gained and win probability are almost entirely correlated. The more yards you gain, the more it increases your WP. But at some point when you're leading late, time becomes more important than yards. A two yard plunge into the line helps your WP more than a five yard sweep that goes out of bounds.

I can't tell you the exact numbers, but I would be willing to bet the Rams' play calling lowered their WP.

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Cowboys just short of midfield when Zeke gets tackled with over 5 seconds left on the clock before half.  Rather than calling their last time out and throwing a hail mary...The Clapper just lets the clock run out.  Why?

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A combo of two of our favorites: Down by 10 with 8:30 left, third and 2 on the 3 yard line, Cowboys just having lost a starting defensive lineman on the previous play, Atlanta lines up with an empty backfield. 

After the pass goes incomplete,, they then kick the field goal “to make it a one-score game” instead of trying to pick up the first or TD.

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1 hour ago, trader jake said:

Cowboys just short of midfield when Zeke gets tackled with over 5 seconds left on the clock before half.  Rather than calling their last time out and throwing a hail mary...The Clapper just lets the clock run out.  Why?

He has probably been ordered by Jerry Jones not to throw Hail Marys, since those could result in a cheap INT and hurt Dak's stats. 

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26 minutes ago, CalBear said:

A combo of two of our favorites: Down by 10 with 8:30 left, third and 2 on the 3 yard line, Cowboys just having lost a starting defensive lineman on the previous play, Atlanta lines up with an empty backfield. 

After the pass goes incomplete,, they then kick the field goal “to make it a one-score game” instead of trying to pick up the first or TD.

And sure enough, ATL manages to tie it up, and then realizes that being tied isn’t the same thing as being ahead.

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2 minutes ago, Heisenberg23 said:

Rivera panthers going for 2 rather than the tying game 

I like the call. 

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11 minutes ago, Heisenberg23 said:

Why? If det kicks a FG you lose anyways ... it was idiotic 

Yep.  It also puts Detroit in a situation in which they pull out all the stops to get a field goal to win.  If you tie them they might take the game to OT if something goes slightly wrong, instead of go crazy for the FG.   It's the difference between going for it on 4th down and taking it to OT. 

Stupid call IMO.  You cant win if you convert there, but you lose if you don't. 

Maybe would be different if Carolina was the worse team and didn't feel confident about winning if it went to OT. 

Edited by kittenmittens
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The playcalling at the end of the game for the Steelers was absolutely atrocious but they got lucky.  

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3 minutes ago, fred_1_15301 said:

The playcalling at the end of the game for the Steelers was absolutely atrocious but they got lucky.  

True...even the run at the end nearly cost them the game, since an overturn on review would have run off the rest of the clock (something Pittsburgh should know since they lost one last year that way).

If you are going to run, do it earlier, with more time on the clock.  You had a TO in hand!

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Just now, Arodin said:

True...even the run at the end nearly cost them the game, since an overturn on review would have run off the rest of the clock (something Pittsburgh should know since they lost one last year that way).

If you are going to run, do it earlier, with more time on the clock.  You had a TO in hand!

They should have run the ball on the play where Ben threw the int (that was fortunately called back because of the penalty).  

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55 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

He has probably been ordered by Jerry Jones not to throw Hail Marys, since those could result in a cheap INT and hurt Dak's stats. 

The Boys may be pleased right now but that team isn't winning when it matters with Dak at QB.  Or Jason Garrett as the head coach.

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25 minutes ago, Heisenberg23 said:

Rivera panthers going for 2 rather than the tying game 

Horrible call. You are playing the Lions. Tie it up, moron and beat them in OT. 

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34 minutes ago, fred_1_15301 said:

The playcalling at the end of the game for the Steelers was absolutely atrocious but they got lucky.  

What about the Jags? Had completely lost momentum at the end of the game,  i get that they don't trust Bortles but 3 runs with no attempt at anything creative and then just handing the ball back to Pitt with like 2 minutes left and up 3.  I mean they're like 3-6, have just an ounce of guts.

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38 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

Yep.  It also puts Detroit in a situation in which they pull out all the stops to get a field goal to win.  If you tie them they might take the game to OT if something goes slightly wrong, instead of go crazy for the FG.   It's the difference between going for it on 4th down and taking it to OT. 

Stupid call IMO.  You cant win if you convert there, but you lose if you don't. 

Maybe would be different if Carolina was the worse team and didn't feel confident about winning if it went to OT. 

Watching it, I didn't think it was such a terrible call, but you make an excellent point, especially since Detroit had all three TOs. I will say as a Lions fan watching that live, I wasn't sure what I wanted them to do.

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46 minutes ago, Arodin said:

True...even the run at the end nearly cost them the game, since an overturn on review would have run off the rest of the clock (something Pittsburgh should know since they lost one last year that way).

If you are going to run, do it earlier, with more time on the clock.  You had a TO in hand!

If they had a TO left, couldn't they just use that to avoid the clock run off?

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59 minutes ago, Heisenberg23 said:

Why? If det kicks a FG you lose anyways ... it was idiotic 

If Detroit kicks a field goal you lose if you kick the PAT, too, so those possibilities cancel. Unless you think that Detroit is more likely to be successful driving for a FG while down 1 than when they’re tied.

Other than that, it degrades to the case of the 2-point conversion vs. OT. If your 2-point conversion is better than 50%, it’s probably the better call.

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52 minutes ago, Arodin said:

True...even the run at the end nearly cost them the game, since an overturn on review would have run off the rest of the clock (something Pittsburgh should know since they lost one last year that way).

If you are going to run, do it earlier, with more time on the clock.  You had a TO in hand!

Steelers could have used their remaining timeout to prevent the runoff

 

Quote

ARTICLE 4. REPLAY REVIEW AFTER TWO-MINUTE WARNING OF EITHER HALF. If a replay review after the two-minute warning of either half results in the on-field ruling being reversed and the correct ruling would not have stopped the game clock, then the officials will run 10 seconds off the game clock before permitting the ball to be put in play on the ready-for-play signal. The defense cannot decline the runoff, but either team can use a remaining timeout to prevent it.

 

Edited by apalmer
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21 minutes ago, Tool said:

What about the Jags? Had completely lost momentum at the end of the game,  i get that they don't trust Bortles but 3 runs with no attempt at anything creative and then just handing the ball back to Pitt with like 2 minutes left and up 3.  I mean they're like 3-6, have just an ounce of guts.

Couldn’t agree more.  They gave that game away.

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Sean Payton.

Putting Taysom Hill in at QB instead of Brees, ever.  Stop getting cute with this wildcat BS.  You have a QB in the conversation for GOAT.  Keep the ball in his hands. 

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25 minutes ago, CalBear said:

If Detroit kicks a field goal you lose if you kick the PAT, too, so those possibilities cancel. Unless you think that Detroit is more likely to be successful driving for a FG while down 1 than when they’re tied.

Other than that, it degrades to the case of the 2-point conversion vs. OT. If your 2-point conversion is better than 50%, it’s probably the better call.

I think there is a better chance they score down 1.

Edited by kittenmittens

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1 hour ago, lod001 said:

Horrible call. You are playing the Lions. Tie it up, moron and beat them in OT. 

Exactly. Carolina the superior team. No reason to think you can't go to OT and win. And now they sit at 6-4 and I'm questioning their playoff chances with 2 matches still against New Orleans and Seattle next week.

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I said it in another thread and i will say it again. Better to be too aggressive rather than always playing it safe like most coaches have over the years.

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38 minutes ago, CalBear said:

If Detroit kicks a field goal you lose if you kick the PAT, too, so those possibilities cancel. Unless you think that Detroit is more likely to be successful driving for a FG while down 1 than when they’re tied.

Other than that, it degrades to the case of the 2-point conversion vs. OT. If your 2-point conversion is better than 50%, it’s probably the better call.

I think it's even a little better than your 2-point conversion play being better than 50% because if you miss it you can kick the onside kick as well.  So even if your 2-pointer is 50/50 then going for 2 may be the play because you get the bonus probability of recovering an onside kick on that side of the equation too.

Like you said the Detroit FG is mostly irrelevant because that ends the game either way.

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56 minutes ago, Tool said:

What about the Jags? Had completely lost momentum at the end of the game,  i get that they don't trust Bortles but 3 runs with no attempt at anything creative and then just handing the ball back to Pitt with like 2 minutes left and up 3.  I mean they're like 3-6, have just an ounce of guts.

Welcome to Doug Marrone.

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38 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

I think there is a better chance they score down 1.

Is there any evidence of that?

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