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23 hours ago, GroveDiesel said:

Deferring the kickoff on overtime is just insane.

Ah the ol Morningweg.

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39 minutes ago, bryhamm said:

Onside kick?  Am I missing something?

If you start OT with an onside kick, it counts as a possession opportunity for the receiving team, even if they don't actually possess the ball. So onside kick and recover, and it's sudden death, a field goal wins and you're already at midfield. Onside kick and don't get it, the other team starts at midfield and starts thinking "play it safe and secure the FG" instead of taking big shots downfield to move the ball. Hopefully they settle for a FG and you get the ball back with a chance to score anyway.

 

Edit: It only made sense when onsides were recovered at like 33-40% of the time. Now that it's below 5%, the math doesn't work.

Edited by Walking Boot
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20 minutes ago, Walking Boot said:

If you start OT with an onside kick, it counts as a possession opportunity for the receiving team, even if they don't actually possess the ball. So onside kick and recover, and it's sudden death, a field goal wins and you're already at midfield. Onside kick and don't get it, the other team starts at midfield and starts thinking "play it safe and secure the FG" instead of taking big shots downfield to move the ball. Hopefully they settle for a FG and you get the ball back with a chance to score anyway.

 

Edit: It only made sense when onsides were recovered at like 33-40% of the time. Now that it's below 5%, the math doesn't work.

Gotcha

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I forget what they were, but I believe I remember Ron Rivera doing one or two stupid things towards the end of the Panthers/Jags game.  Like passing up a FG or something with a 7-point lead.

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22 minutes ago, zed2283 said:

I forget what they were, but I believe I remember Ron Rivera doing one or two stupid things towards the end of the Panthers/Jags game.  Like passing up a FG or something with a 7-point lead.

I believe they were up by 4 and decided to go for it instead of trying to be up by 7.

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3 hours ago, Walking Boot said:

If you start OT with an onside kick, it counts as a possession opportunity for the receiving team, even if they don't actually possess the ball. So onside kick and recover, and it's sudden death, a field goal wins and you're already at midfield. Onside kick and don't get it, the other team starts at midfield and starts thinking "play it safe and secure the FG" instead of taking big shots downfield to move the ball. Hopefully they settle for a FG and you get the ball back with a chance to score anyway.

 

Edit: It only made sense when onsides were recovered at like 33-40% of the time. Now that it's below 5%, the math doesn't work.

Except that onsides recoveries were NEVER 33%. They used to be like 8%, and are now more like 2%

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The onside recovery rate was always much higher for "surprise" onsides, and very low for anticipated onsides, hence the various numbers.  The 30% figure is probably for the surprise ones.

And I must say, the first time someone loses the OT coin toss and opened with an onside kick, it would definitely have been a surprise.  On par with Cowher opening the second half of a Super Bowl with one.  I'd say the recovery rate would be decent until the league caught up.

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Shermer punts into the wind on 4th and 2, down 14 with 7 minutes remaining in the game. 

The punt went 30 yards. 

Edited by kittenmittens
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Just now, kittenmittens said:

Shermer punts into the wind on 4th and 2, down 14 with 7 minutes remaining in the game. 

The punt went 30 yards. 

Terrible. Todd Bowles-esque. 

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On 10/7/2019 at 5:38 PM, Arodin said:

The onside recovery rate was always much higher for "surprise" onsides, and very low for anticipated onsides, hence the various numbers.  The 30% figure is probably for the surprise ones.

And I must say, the first time someone loses the OT coin toss and opened with an onside kick, it would definitely have been a surprise.  On par with Cowher opening the second half of a Super Bowl with one.  I'd say the recovery rate would be decent until the league caught up.

Don't you mean Payton? Or did Cowher do that, too? 

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4 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Don't you mean Payton? Or did Cowher do that, too? 

Memory turns out to be faulty.  Cowher did run an unexpected onside back in Super Bowl 30 but it wasn’t to open the half.  That was Payton.

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13 minutes ago, Arodin said:

Memory turns out to be faulty.  Cowher did run an unexpected onside back in Super Bowl 30 but it wasn’t to open the half.  That was Payton.

That's why I asked on my end. My memory is just as faulty and I barely remember Cowher's Super Bowl. I think it was 2006, and I'd just started grad/law school. 

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6 hours ago, kittenmittens said:

Shermer punts into the wind on 4th and 2, down 14 with 7 minutes remaining in the game. 

The punt went 30 yards. 

I don't even flinch anymore when I see coaches do things this stupid.  It feels like it's so common in today's game.  If I'm an owner and I see that, I start immediately putting together a plan for a replacement.  I know that the odds were probably < 1% for the Giants to win that game but he instantly turned that into 0%.  

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32 minutes ago, fred_1_15301 said:

I don't even flinch anymore when I see coaches do things this stupid.  It feels like it's so common in today's game.  If I'm an owner and I see that, I start immediately putting together a plan for a replacement.  I know that the odds were probably < 1% for the Giants to win that game but he instantly turned that into 0%.  

And maybe they wanted 0% in what is by all accounts a rebuild year?

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4 hours ago, fred_1_15301 said:

I don't even flinch anymore when I see coaches do things this stupid.  It feels like it's so common in today's game.  If I'm an owner and I see that, I start immediately putting together a plan for a replacement.  I know that the odds were probably < 1% for the Giants to win that game but he instantly turned that into 0%.  

Shurmur doesn't want to risk his career winning percentage getting anywhere near .333. With last night's loss he is at a robust .309

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5 hours ago, SayWhat? said:

And maybe they wanted 0% in what is by all accounts a rebuild year?

Well this is a very good point.  But I can't imagine why a coach would be on board with tanking (unless there was some type of agreement with the owner that their job is completely safe).

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1 hour ago, fred_1_15301 said:

Well this is a very good point.  But I can't imagine why a coach would be on board with tanking (unless there was some type of agreement with the owner that their job is completely safe).

I don't know if I could tell the difference between Shurmur tanking and Shurmur actually trying to win a game.

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Freddie Kitchens gets bonehead of the year award with the worst challenge in the history of the NFL.

Edited by ponchsox
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3 minutes ago, ponchsox said:

Freddie Kitchens gets bonehead of the year award with the worst challenge in the history of the NFL.

I actually think he scored there.

But much worse was at the end of the first half the browns were up 8 with 1st and goal at the Seahawks 9 with under 2 minutes left.  They ran once then did a hurry up snapping the ball with 20 seconds left and threw an INT.  

Hawks got the ball back with 1:30 left and went down to score a TD.  

Wow

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Quote

Daryl Ruiter @RuiterWrongFAN

Freddie Kitchens wouldn't run Nick Chubb at the end of the first half and use timeouts because he thought the #Browns could score on a TD pass, use 3 timeouts, get the ball back & score again in 96 seconds. Let that sink in. Instead of going up 27-12, it was a 20-18 game at half

10:03 PM - Oct 13, 2019

 

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9 hours ago, Faust said:

 

 

Wow. if that is true, Kitchens should be fired for thinking too much like Chip Kelly

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2 minutes ago, zed2283 said:

Pretty sure I don't need to point out the particular Andy Reid play call...

QB sneak? Yeah, that's why nobody else runs it. You gotta be in your 40's to safely pull that one off. It's not flukey like other injuries.

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12 hours ago, zed2283 said:

Pretty sure I don't need to point out the particular Andy Reid play call...

Carson Wentz and Tom Brady have done probably 100 qb sneaks combined this year. I havent seen Bill or Doug called out yet... Its like yelling at your kid for throwing the ball in the house only when he breaks the lamp. 

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8 hours ago, Edgar said:

Vic Fangio’s fake punt was atrocious. 

This one wins the “stupid coach of the year.” Award. That play had no chance to do anything except get their punter killed. 

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13 hours ago, zed2283 said:

Pretty sure I don't need to point out the particular Andy Reid play call...

He converted for a 1st down, so....

fluke injury. QB sneaks aren’t usually that dangerous. This is the first time I can recall seeing a QB get hurt doing one. 

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14 hours ago, Dizzy said:

QB sneak? Yeah, that's why nobody else runs it. You gotta be in your 40's to safely pull that one off. It's not flukey like other injuries.

 

1 hour ago, cloppbeast said:

Carson Wentz and Tom Brady have done probably 100 qb sneaks combined this year. I havent seen Bill or Doug called out yet... Its like yelling at your kid for throwing the ball in the house only when he breaks the lamp. 

 

1 hour ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

He converted for a 1st down, so....

fluke injury. QB sneaks aren’t usually that dangerous. This is the first time I can recall seeing a QB get hurt doing one. 

Ok ok... maybe I was reacting emotionally since I have Mahones in one league.

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21 minutes ago, zed2283 said:

 

Ok ok... maybe I was reacting emotionally since I have Mahones in one league.

I get it - dynasty owner. Hurts to see a player go down like that regardless.

but I don’t blame the play call.

the Mahomes topic is filled with criticism of Reid for the play. I think that’s misguided. 

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1 hour ago, zed2283 said:

Ok ok... maybe I was reacting emotionally since I have Mahones in one league.

It happens.

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Vic Fangio leaving Chicago to be the head coach in Denver.

Woof. 

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HOW THE #### DO YOU ICE THE KICKER WHEN THEYRE NOT EVEN ####### LINED UP WITH 6 SECONDS ON THE ####### PLAY CLOCK!!!

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Patriots up 26-0 in the 4th qtr vs Jets.

They score a TD to go up 32-0 .... Book says go for 2 there and the kicked it.

BB ... what a moron

(I got nutin')

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52 minutes ago, Bossman said:

Patriots up 26-0 in the 4th qtr vs Jets.

They score a TD to go up 32-0 .... Book says go for 2 there and the kicked it.

BB ... what a moron

(I got nutin')

What about BB challenging that completed pass (for about 10 lousy yards) up 33 in the 4th Q?

I'm sure his reply would be along the lines of, we play the same regardless of the score, but c'mon man.  And he didn't even win the challenge.

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Just now, davearm said:

What about BB challenging that completed pass (for about 10 lousy yards) up 33 in the 4th Q?

I'm sure his reply would be along the lines of, we play the same regardless of the score, but c'mon man.  And he didn't even win the challenge.

He was pissed that Gase declined the delay of game and false start penalties the drive immediately before. There was a lot of coach stuff going on at the end there that I think one could be privy to if one were dead set on watching the game qua game. 

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1 minute ago, davearm said:

What about BB challenging that completed pass (for about 10 lousy yards) up 33 in the 4th Q?

I'm sure his reply would be along the lines of, we play the same regardless of the score, but c'mon man.  And he didn't even win the challenge.

What about benching the Greatest Qb of all time in the 4th quarter?!! Why would you ever sit him?!! BB a genius? NO WAY!!

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2 minutes ago, rockaction said:

He was pissed that Gase declined the delay of game and false start penalties the drive immediately before. There was a lot of coach stuff going on at the end there that I think one could be privy to if one were dead set on watching the game qua game. 

Not saying you're wrong but being pissed about that would be even stupider than the challenge.  Gase would be getting called out in this thread had he accepted those penalties.

"Sure Bill just put the ball wherever you'd like it, no problem." :loco::loco:

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7 minutes ago, dhockster said:

What about benching the Greatest Qb of all time in the 4th quarter?!! Why would you ever sit him?!! BB a genius? NO WAY!!

Funny you say that.  I glanced at a TV to catch the score and immediately thought, why the heck is Brady still in the game right now when it's 33-0??

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Just now, davearm said:

Not saying you're wrong but being pissed about that would be even stupider than the challenge.  Gase would be getting called out in this thread had he accepted those penalties.

"Sure Bill just put the ball wherever you'd like it, no problem." :loco::loco:

I think Bill genuinely was. They talked about it in the booth, and you could see his rueful smile. You could also read McDaniels's lips when the NYJ went to run their two-minute drill. "What are they doing?" he mouthed to Brady on the bench.

They wanted the Jets to take their whipping meekly, I think.

It was a weird dynamic. 

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1 minute ago, davearm said:

Funny you say that.  I glanced at a TV to catch the score and immediately thought, why the heck is Brady still in the game right now when it's 33-0??

Getting corner blitzed and almost drilled, no less. 

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1 minute ago, rockaction said:

Getting corner blitzed and almost drilled, no less. 

Yep.  Had two or three very narrow escapes in a row there.

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1 hour ago, rockaction said:

He was pissed that Gase declined the delay of game and false start penalties the drive immediately before. There was a lot of coach stuff going on at the end there that I think one could be privy to if one were dead set on watching the game qua game. 

I don't think that BB was pissed ... BB was kind of smirking that Gase was "on to him" trying to give the punter more room.

... what made it amusing to Bill is that they ran the play clock down to zero (45 seconds) while the game clock was running...

then ran another 42 seconds off the game clock before the false start.

then ran another 44 seconds off the game clock for the punt.

So over 2 mins off the game clock for one 4th down play.

 

 

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Just now, Bossman said:

I don't think that BB was pissed ... BB was kind of smirking that Gase was "on to him" trying to give the punter more room.

... what made it amusing to Bill is that they ran the play clock down to zero (45 seconds) while the game clock was running...

then ran another 42 seconds off the game clock before the false start.

then ran another 44 seconds off the game clock for the punt.

So over 2 mins off the game clock for one 4th down play.

This is also a good take, and is as likely as my explanation. But why challenge the play up 33 and about under two minutes remaining?

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45 minutes ago, Bossman said:

I don't think that BB was pissed ... BB was kind of smirking that Gase was "on to him" trying to give the punter more room.

... what made it amusing to Bill is that they ran the play clock down to zero (45 seconds) while the game clock was running...

then ran another 42 seconds off the game clock before the false start.

then ran another 44 seconds off the game clock for the punt.

So over 2 mins off the game clock for one 4th down play.

 

43 minutes ago, rockaction said:

This is also a good take, and is as likely as my explanation. But why challenge the play up 33 and about under two minutes remaining?

BB Rule Bending Again

Penalty / Clock Chewing Rule Proposal

I believe the NFL did put into place a rule to prevent this after the Ravens ran the final 11 seconds off the game clock by the entire punt team, grabbing / holding / tackling, while the punter stood there holding the ball.

15 yard unsportsmanlike and reset of game clock now I believe.

... which is probably why BB didn't just keep giving penalties to be declined.

Refs should have actually utilized this rule after the false start (second penalty).

 

Edited by Bossman
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BB is the man *tips cap, walks away into a frigid, nearly soulless night with the optimism only the exacting fundamentalist could imbue*

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2 hours ago, davearm said:

Funny you say that.  I glanced at a TV to catch the score and immediately thought, why the heck is Brady still in the game right now when it's 33-0??

Because belicheat is an arrogant @@@@@.

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45 minutes ago, Bossman said:

 

 

BB Rule Bending Again

Penalty / Clock Chewing Rule Proposal

I believe the NFL did put into place a rule to prevent this after the Ravens ran the final 11 seconds off the game clock by the entire punt team, grabbing / holding / tackling, while the punter stood there holding the ball.

15 yard unsportsmanlike and reset of game clock now I believe.

... which is probably why BB didn't just keep giving penalties to be declined.

Refs should have actually utilized this rule after the false start (second penalty).

 

I can guarantee you 90% of the coaches in the league would not have done what Belicheck did....because they are too stupid to know about it.

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2 minutes ago, lod001 said:

I can guarantee you 90% of the coaches in the league would not have done what Belicheck did....because they are too stupid to know about it.

And do it in such a way that it doesn't tip the competitive balance of a game or season. That's actually classy. 

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