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Obamacare: Obama just straight up lied to you, in your face (5 Viewers)

So today's play book from the liberal wing is to blame the republicans, the tea party, and big business for this debacle of a roll out.

5 million people LOST their health insurance due to a bill passed 100% by democrats. Blaming republicans, the tea party, big business, Oswald, and the tooth fairy all make sense.

In other words, nothing new here.

 
timschochet said:
matttyl said:
timschochet said:
Why should I stop it, Hang 10?

So long as there are conservatives who honestly believe that we will do away with Obamacare, there's going to be more pain rather than less. People need to accept reality. It's here to stay.
Click to expand...
And if we want it to stay, the penalty needs to be worse and enforceable, and people need to be forced off their current plans (not able to keep them) and all do so as of Jan 1.
Click to expand...
Separate argument, and IMO irrelevant.Sorry matttyl, I'm betting that for at least the next 5 years or so there's going to be all of the arbitrary changes to Obamacare regarding dates and penalties, and you're probably not going to like any of them.
Click to expand...
I don't like any of the ones that are there now. I'm just looking at it from the insurance side of things. If previously health and insured people are able to keep their current plans and not have to go into the new pool, and there's no enforceable mandate to push people into the pool, the pool will spiral out of control pretty quickly. I'm looking at it from the perspective of the history of guaranteed issue health insurance pools.

 
timschochet said:
Why should I stop it, Hang 10?

So long as there are conservatives who honestly believe that we will do away with Obamacare, there's going to be more pain rather than less. People need to accept reality. It's here to stay.
Click to expand...
meh....pain inflicted thus far has nothing to do with the right. They're a bunch of idiots but they didn't pass this thing. The "pain" you're seeing right now is on the shoulders of all who passed this stuff in it's current state. Now, if the GOP decides to intentionally stand in the way of repairing this cluster, then they can join in sharing the blame. The dems will be on the hook for passing it as it is (not knowing what's really in it to see all the loopholes and angles out) and the GOP will be on the hook for sitting there and letting it burn for political reasons while making us as citizens suffer the consequences. Right now, we're just in the first phase.

 
timschochet said:
Paul Krugman chimes in on the good news from California:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/25/opinion/krugman-california-here-we-come.html?_r=0

Again, Obamacare’s rollout was a disaster. But in California we can see what health reform care enrollment will look like, beyond the glitches. And it’s going to work.
Click to expand...
Fixed. I could successful enroll my kid in a T-ball league ...but it's still likely to be chaos on the field. Krugman's getting ahead of himself if he thinks smooth enrollments in California translates to workable health reform. We need to see what happens to people's rates; what happens to those who lost coverage; whether the young enrolled; how insurance companies set rates for 2015; whether more employers drop employee coverage; etc. Fundamentally, we need to see if this brings down the cost of health care in the U.S.

 
tri-man 47 said:
timschochet said:
Paul Krugman chimes in on the good news from California:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/25/opinion/krugman-california-here-we-come.html?_r=0

Again, Obamacare’s rollout was a disaster. But in California we can see what health reform care enrollment will look like, beyond the glitches. And it’s going to work.
Click to expand...
Fixed. I could successful enroll my kid in a T-ball league ...but it's still likely to be chaos on the field. Krugman's getting ahead of himself if he thinks smooth enrollments in California translates to workable health reform. We need to see what happens to people's rates; what happens to those who lost coverage; whether the young enrolled; how insurance companies set rates for 2015; whether more employers drop employee coverage; etc. Fundamentally, we need to see if this brings down the cost of health care in the U.S.
Click to expand...
Hugh Hewitt interviewed the director of CoveredCA last week and his answers were interesting to say the least.

They have 80,000 enrolled so far (mind you not one payment has been made) and approximately only 8,500 of those are between 18 and 34.

Their total enrollee goal for the open enrollment period is 465,000, but here is the kicker, when Hewitt asked what's the breakdown goal was, they didn't have one. In other words, how many in each category do they need to make the program sustainable, they don't have a clue and haven't run those numbers.

In October, approx. 30,000 people enrolled and of those, only 4,800 qualified for a subsidy. They didn't have the number for November yet,

When asked how many people have used the Spanish portal the number of enrollees is only 994. He indicated they are cross-checking everyone's SS number, so to insure no undocumented individuals can enroll.

Btw: did I mention they have a marketing budget of 190 million dollars. So break that down 190 million being spent in hopes of getting 465,000 enrolled during this open enrollment period with a final projected goal by the end of 2014 of 1 million to 1.4 million. That doesn't see very cost effective to me, but that's my opinion.

Just some numbers to chew on since Krugman wants to use California as an example.

 
Stinger Ray said:
timschochet said:
matttyl said:
timschochet said:
Why should I stop it, Hang 10?

So long as there are conservatives who honestly believe that we will do away with Obamacare, there's going to be more pain rather than less. People need to accept reality. It's here to stay.
Click to expand...
And if we want it to stay, the penalty needs to be worse and enforceable, and people need to be forced off their current plans (not able to keep them) and all do so as of Jan 1.
Click to expand...
Separate argument, and IMO irrelevant.Sorry matttyl, I'm betting that for at least the next 5 years or so there's going to be all of the arbitrary changes to Obamacare regarding dates and penalties, and you're probably not going to like any of them.
Click to expand...
And for someone that says you don't like the ACA you have no issue with changes that may happen which don't help and make the ACA worse. Mattyl deals with health insurance for his career yet you and Gunz act like you know more about his profession than he does!
Click to expand...
Of course I don't know more about selling insurance policies to individuals than mattyl does. That's not the same as having an opinion on the ACA. And while mattyl is certainly knowledgeable, he plays loose with the facts and anecdotes in his quest to bash anything ACA related.

 
The Commish said:
timschochet said:
Why should I stop it, Hang 10?

So long as there are conservatives who honestly believe that we will do away with Obamacare, there's going to be more pain rather than less. People need to accept reality. It's here to stay.
Click to expand...
meh....pain inflicted thus far has nothing to do with the right. They're a bunch of idiots but they didn't pass this thing. The "pain" you're seeing right now is on the shoulders of all who passed this stuff in it's current state. Now, if the GOP decides to intentionally stand in the way of repairing this cluster, then they can join in sharing the blame. The dems will be on the hook for passing it as it is (not knowing what's really in it to see all the loopholes and angles out) and the GOP will be on the hook for sitting there and letting it burn for political reasons while making us as citizens suffer the consequences. Right now, we're just in the first phase.
Click to expand...
Just curious. Is there a way to fix Obamacare that will actually work? Obama's first attempt to help, letting people keep their old plans probably did more long-term harm to the program than help it. I can just see the Republicans getting blamed for not fixing it when there really is no good way out of this mess other than going back to the old system and starting over.

 
The Commish said:
timschochet said:
Why should I stop it, Hang 10?

So long as there are conservatives who honestly believe that we will do away with Obamacare, there's going to be more pain rather than less. People need to accept reality. It's here to stay.
Click to expand...
meh....pain inflicted thus far has nothing to do with the right. They're a bunch of idiots but they didn't pass this thing. The "pain" you're seeing right now is on the shoulders of all who passed this stuff in it's current state. Now, if the GOP decides to intentionally stand in the way of repairing this cluster, then they can join in sharing the blame. The dems will be on the hook for passing it as it is (not knowing what's really in it to see all the loopholes and angles out) and the GOP will be on the hook for sitting there and letting it burn for political reasons while making us as citizens suffer the consequences. Right now, we're just in the first phase.
Click to expand...
I don't agree with this. You can't that the Republican governors who refuse to accept the Medicaid funds or the navigators, and the conservative efforts to convince young people not to sign up, aren't having a detrimental effect. They're not to blame for all of the problems, but they're to blame for some.

 
tommyGunZ said:
Stinger Ray said:
timschochet said:
matttyl said:
timschochet said:
Why should I stop it, Hang 10?

So long as there are conservatives who honestly believe that we will do away with Obamacare, there's going to be more pain rather than less. People need to accept reality. It's here to stay.
Click to expand...
And if we want it to stay, the penalty needs to be worse and enforceable, and people need to be forced off their current plans (not able to keep them) and all do so as of Jan 1.
Click to expand...
Separate argument, and IMO irrelevant.Sorry matttyl, I'm betting that for at least the next 5 years or so there's going to be all of the arbitrary changes to Obamacare regarding dates and penalties, and you're probably not going to like any of them.
Click to expand...
And for someone that says you don't like the ACA you have no issue with changes that may happen which don't help and make the ACA worse. Mattyl deals with health insurance for his career yet you and Gunz act like you know more about his profession than he does!
Click to expand...
Of course I don't know more about selling insurance policies to individuals than mattyl does. That's not the same as having an opinion on the ACA. And while mattyl is certainly knowledgeable, he plays loose with the facts and anecdotes in his quest to bash anything ACA related.
Click to expand...
mattyl provides more facts than you or Tim can dream of. He has done a good job to keep politics out of this. Rather he gives examples of what is sees from his professional background in dealing with this on a daily basis.

You're guilty of playing loose with facts and anecdotes in your quest to support anything ACA related.

 
humpback said:
So Tim claims to be a "moderate", yet continues to read/listen to the most partisan sources to get his "news", and actually believes them and thinks they're credible? So bizarre.
Click to expand...
I try to listen to everything. Unfortunately most of what's written about Obamacare at this point is heavily polarized. But as far as what I post here, it's mostly good news. So many people here are already posting bad news, I don't feel the need to add to that.

 
I appreciate matttyl's posts. I have learned quite a bit from them. I don't disagree with most of his points, but I'm not always sure they paint the overall picture that he thinks they do.

matttyl is like a foot soldier in a big war. He knows way more than I do (I'm a civilian, far away from the battle) but as to overall military strategy and whether or not our side is winning either the battle or the war, I'm not sure his judgment can be trusted over the generals in charge.

 
timschochet said:
I appreciate matttyl's posts. I have learned quite a bit from them. I don't disagree with most of his points, but I'm not always sure they paint the overall picture that he thinks they do.

matttyl is like a foot soldier in a big war. He knows way more than I do (I'm a civilian, far away from the battle) but as to overall military strategy and whether or not our side is winning either the battle or the war, I'm not sure his judgment can be trusted over the generals in charge.
Click to expand...
And we should trust your judgement? :lmao:

 
timschochet said:
I appreciate matttyl's posts. I have learned quite a bit from them. I don't disagree with most of his points, but I'm not always sure they paint the overall picture that he thinks they do.

matttyl is like a foot soldier in a big war. He knows way more than I do (I'm a civilian, far away from the battle) but as to overall military strategy and whether or not our side is winning either the battle or the war, I'm not sure his judgment can be trusted over the generals in charge.
Click to expand...
The Generals in charge of the ACA have shown little reason why we can trust them!

 
Stinger Ray said:
timschochet said:
I appreciate matttyl's posts. I have learned quite a bit from them. I don't disagree with most of his points, but I'm not always sure they paint the overall picture that he thinks they do.

matttyl is like a foot soldier in a big war. He knows way more than I do (I'm a civilian, far away from the battle) but as to overall military strategy and whether or not our side is winning either the battle or the war, I'm not sure his judgment can be trusted over the generals in charge.
Click to expand...
And we should trust your judgement? :lmao:
Click to expand...
Of course not.

 
Joe T said:
So today's play book from the liberal wing is to blame the republicans, the tea party, and big business for this debacle of a roll out.

5 million people LOST their health insurance due to a bill passed 100% by democrats. Blaming republicans, the tea party, big business, Oswald, and the tooth fairy all make sense.

In other words, nothing new here.
Click to expand...
With the mainstream media on his side, Obama knows anything is possible.

Using lies to try to get out of this political mess was expected from the Obama admin. Not sure the lies are going to help in the long-term though. People are not going to forget this mistake since it will likely get worse over time.

 
Ookie Pringle said:
timschochet said:
I appreciate matttyl's posts. I have learned quite a bit from them. I don't disagree with most of his points, but I'm not always sure they paint the overall picture that he thinks they do.

matttyl is like a foot soldier in a big war. He knows way more than I do (I'm a civilian, far away from the battle) but as to overall military strategy and whether or not our side is winning either the battle or the war, I'm not sure his judgment can be trusted over the generals in charge.
Click to expand...
The Generals in charge of the ACA have shown little reason why we can trust them!
Click to expand...
George McClellan is in charge so far. But I'm confident that we'll eventually win the war.

 
DocHolliday said:
Joe T said:
So today's play book from the liberal wing is to blame the republicans, the tea party, and big business for this debacle of a roll out.

5 million people LOST their health insurance due to a bill passed 100% by democrats. Blaming republicans, the tea party, big business, Oswald, and the tooth fairy all make sense.

In other words, nothing new here.
Click to expand...
With the mainstream media on his side, Obama knows anything is possible.

Using lies to try to get out of this political mess was expected from the Obama admin. Not sure the lies are going to help in the long-term though. People are not going to forget this mistake since it will likely get worse over time.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:

 
timschochet said:
humpback said:
So Tim claims to be a "moderate", yet continues to read/listen to the most partisan sources to get his "news", and actually believes them and thinks they're credible? So bizarre.
Click to expand...
I try to listen to everything. Unfortunately most of what's written about Obamacare at this point is heavily polarized. But as far as what I post here, it's mostly good news. So many people here are already posting bad news, I don't feel the need to add to that.
Click to expand...
You're not portraying the effects of this bill in an accurate fashion. What you're doing is actually very dangerous for our country.

 
The Commish said:
timschochet said:
Why should I stop it, Hang 10?

So long as there are conservatives who honestly believe that we will do away with Obamacare, there's going to be more pain rather than less. People need to accept reality. It's here to stay.
Click to expand...
meh....pain inflicted thus far has nothing to do with the right. They're a bunch of idiots but they didn't pass this thing. The "pain" you're seeing right now is on the shoulders of all who passed this stuff in it's current state. Now, if the GOP decides to intentionally stand in the way of repairing this cluster, then they can join in sharing the blame. The dems will be on the hook for passing it as it is (not knowing what's really in it to see all the loopholes and angles out) and the GOP will be on the hook for sitting there and letting it burn for political reasons while making us as citizens suffer the consequences. Right now, we're just in the first phase.
Click to expand...
The GOP is stupid so they probably will screw up this opportunity. It would absolutely be policital suicide to stand in the way of any repairs. The GOP should repeat over and over to the media that they will gladly join the dems on any workable fixes that are brought forward. The GOP should not say much. I would let the citizens and numbers do the talking.

 
DocHolliday said:
The Commish said:
timschochet said:
Why should I stop it, Hang 10?

So long as there are conservatives who honestly believe that we will do away with Obamacare, there's going to be more pain rather than less. People need to accept reality. It's here to stay.
Click to expand...
meh....pain inflicted thus far has nothing to do with the right. They're a bunch of idiots but they didn't pass this thing. The "pain" you're seeing right now is on the shoulders of all who passed this stuff in it's current state. Now, if the GOP decides to intentionally stand in the way of repairing this cluster, then they can join in sharing the blame. The dems will be on the hook for passing it as it is (not knowing what's really in it to see all the loopholes and angles out) and the GOP will be on the hook for sitting there and letting it burn for political reasons while making us as citizens suffer the consequences. Right now, we're just in the first phase.
Click to expand...
The GOP is stupid so they probably will screw up this opportunity. It would absolutely be policital suicide to stand in the way of any repairs. The GOP should repeat over and over to the media that they will gladly join the dems on any workable fixes that are brought forward. The GOP should not say much. I would let the citizens and numbers do the talking.
Click to expand...
I don't always agree with you, but this is a GREAT posting.

 
timschochet said:
Ookie Pringle said:
timschochet said:
I appreciate matttyl's posts. I have learned quite a bit from them. I don't disagree with most of his points, but I'm not always sure they paint the overall picture that he thinks they do.

matttyl is like a foot soldier in a big war. He knows way more than I do (I'm a civilian, far away from the battle) but as to overall military strategy and whether or not our side is winning either the battle or the war, I'm not sure his judgment can be trusted over the generals in charge.
Click to expand...
The Generals in charge of the ACA have shown little reason why we can trust them!
Click to expand...
George McClellan is in charge so far. But I'm confident that we'll eventually win the war.
Click to expand...
There are so many different ways to address this horrible analogy that I can't seem to pick one. So :rolleyes: Schlzm

 
DrJ said:
timschochet said:
humpback said:
So Tim claims to be a "moderate", yet continues to read/listen to the most partisan sources to get his "news", and actually believes them and thinks they're credible? So bizarre.
Click to expand...
I try to listen to everything. Unfortunately most of what's written about Obamacare at this point is heavily polarized. But as far as what I post here, it's mostly good news. So many people here are already posting bad news, I don't feel the need to add to that.
Click to expand...
You're not portraying the effects of this bill in an accurate fashion. What you're doing is actually very dangerous for our country.
Click to expand...
I'll bite. How in the world is anything that I'm doing on an internet board "dangerous for our country."? And how do you know that what I'm portraying is inaccurate?

 
Schlzm said:
timschochet said:
Ookie Pringle said:
timschochet said:
I appreciate matttyl's posts. I have learned quite a bit from them. I don't disagree with most of his points, but I'm not always sure they paint the overall picture that he thinks they do.

matttyl is like a foot soldier in a big war. He knows way more than I do (I'm a civilian, far away from the battle) but as to overall military strategy and whether or not our side is winning either the battle or the war, I'm not sure his judgment can be trusted over the generals in charge.
Click to expand...
The Generals in charge of the ACA have shown little reason why we can trust them!
Click to expand...
George McClellan is in charge so far. But I'm confident that we'll eventually win the war.
Click to expand...
There are so many different ways to address this horrible analogy that I can't seem to pick one. So :rolleyes: Schlzm
Click to expand...
I was going to use Redvers Buller, but I wasn't sure that most people would know who he was.

 
timschochet said:
DrJ said:
timschochet said:
humpback said:
So Tim claims to be a "moderate", yet continues to read/listen to the most partisan sources to get his "news", and actually believes them and thinks they're credible? So bizarre.
Click to expand...
I try to listen to everything. Unfortunately most of what's written about Obamacare at this point is heavily polarized. But as far as what I post here, it's mostly good news. So many people here are already posting bad news, I don't feel the need to add to that.
Click to expand...
You're not portraying the effects of this bill in an accurate fashion. What you're doing is actually very dangerous for our country.
Click to expand...
I'll bite. How in the world is anything that I'm doing on an internet board "dangerous for our country."? And how do you know that what I'm portraying is inaccurate?
Click to expand...
Because you admit that you're selectively filtering the news you highlight in order to achieve a certain theme to your postings. Accuracy isn't your top priority. This is extremely dangerous, especially given that this is one of the most critical issues of our time.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
DrJ said:
timschochet said:
DrJ said:
timschochet said:
humpback said:
So Tim claims to be a "moderate", yet continues to read/listen to the most partisan sources to get his "news", and actually believes them and thinks they're credible? So bizarre.
Click to expand...
I try to listen to everything. Unfortunately most of what's written about Obamacare at this point is heavily polarized. But as far as what I post here, it's mostly good news. So many people here are already posting bad news, I don't feel the need to add to that.
Click to expand...
You're not portraying the effects of this bill in an accurate fashion. What you're doing is actually very dangerous for our country.
Click to expand...
I'll bite. How in the world is anything that I'm doing on an internet board "dangerous for our country."? And how do you know that what I'm portraying is inaccurate?
Click to expand...
Because you admit that you're selectively filtering the news you highlight in order to achieve a certain theme to your postings. Accuracy isn't your top priority. This is extremely dangerous.
Click to expand...
:lol: I'm not filtering any "news". There almost isn't any real news about Obamacare these days- only opinion pieces.

 
timschochet said:
The Commish said:
timschochet said:
Why should I stop it, Hang 10?

So long as there are conservatives who honestly believe that we will do away with Obamacare, there's going to be more pain rather than less. People need to accept reality. It's here to stay.
Click to expand...
meh....pain inflicted thus far has nothing to do with the right. They're a bunch of idiots but they didn't pass this thing. The "pain" you're seeing right now is on the shoulders of all who passed this stuff in it's current state. Now, if the GOP decides to intentionally stand in the way of repairing this cluster, then they can join in sharing the blame. The dems will be on the hook for passing it as it is (not knowing what's really in it to see all the loopholes and angles out) and the GOP will be on the hook for sitting there and letting it burn for political reasons while making us as citizens suffer the consequences. Right now, we're just in the first phase.
Click to expand...
I don't agree with this. You can't that the Republican governors who refuse to accept the Medicaid funds or the navigators, and the conservative efforts to convince young people not to sign up, aren't having a detrimental effect. They're not to blame for all of the problems, but they're to blame for some.
Click to expand...
Sorry....the reason this gap exists is because of the way the rules were written. That's a problem with the plan as it's passed. They realized after the fact that this gap existed and tried to patch it. These additional monies are nowhere to be found in initial estimates. As for "convince young people not to sign up", I've not seen this. Telling young people that it might be cheaper to pay the penalty than pay for the healthcare has always been on the table. It's part of the rules. Telling people of their options is the least of our concerns. Perhaps the rules could have been written in a way that didn't require the youth to be footing the bill. Nothing you say here goes against "The dems will be on the hook for passing it as it is (not knowing what's really in it to see all the loopholes and angles out) " Sadly, the GOP is simply using the crappy rules against their opponent has come up with against them.

 
timschochet said:
DrJ said:
timschochet said:
DrJ said:
timschochet said:
humpback said:
So Tim claims to be a "moderate", yet continues to read/listen to the most partisan sources to get his "news", and actually believes them and thinks they're credible? So bizarre.
Click to expand...
I try to listen to everything. Unfortunately most of what's written about Obamacare at this point is heavily polarized. But as far as what I post here, it's mostly good news. So many people here are already posting bad news, I don't feel the need to add to that.
Click to expand...
You're not portraying the effects of this bill in an accurate fashion. What you're doing is actually very dangerous for our country.
Click to expand...
I'll bite. How in the world is anything that I'm doing on an internet board "dangerous for our country."? And how do you know that what I'm portraying is inaccurate?
Click to expand...
Because you admit that you're selectively filtering the news you highlight in order to achieve a certain theme to your postings. Accuracy isn't your top priority. This is extremely dangerous.
Click to expand...
:lol: I'm not filtering any "news". There almost isn't any real news about Obamacare these days- only opinion pieces.
Click to expand...
Whatever you want to call them, you're selectively filtering the pieces you highlight in order to achieve a certain agenda. Intellectual honesty, accuracy, and integrity has taken a back seat. I can't think of anything more dangerous, especially with what's at stake here. This is a defining issue of our times.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
DrJ said:
timschochet said:
humpback said:
So Tim claims to be a "moderate", yet continues to read/listen to the most partisan sources to get his "news", and actually believes them and thinks they're credible? So bizarre.
Click to expand...
I try to listen to everything. Unfortunately most of what's written about Obamacare at this point is heavily polarized. But as far as what I post here, it's mostly good news. So many people here are already posting bad news, I don't feel the need to add to that.
Click to expand...
You're not portraying the effects of this bill in an accurate fashion. What you're doing is actually very dangerous for our country.
Click to expand...
Why? Because he doesn't report the stories you want to hear on foxnews?

 
DrJ said:
timschochet said:
DrJ said:
timschochet said:
DrJ said:
timschochet said:
humpback said:
So Tim claims to be a "moderate", yet continues to read/listen to the most partisan sources to get his "news", and actually believes them and thinks they're credible? So bizarre.
Click to expand...
I try to listen to everything. Unfortunately most of what's written about Obamacare at this point is heavily polarized. But as far as what I post here, it's mostly good news. So many people here are already posting bad news, I don't feel the need to add to that.
Click to expand...
You're not portraying the effects of this bill in an accurate fashion. What you're doing is actually very dangerous for our country.
Click to expand...
I'll bite. How in the world is anything that I'm doing on an internet board "dangerous for our country."? And how do you know that what I'm portraying is inaccurate?
Click to expand...
Because you admit that you're selectively filtering the news you highlight in order to achieve a certain theme to your postings. Accuracy isn't your top priority. This is extremely dangerous.
Click to expand...
:lol: I'm not filtering any "news". There almost isn't any real news about Obamacare these days- only opinion pieces.
Click to expand...
Whatever you want to call them, you're selectively filtering the pieces you highlight in order to achieve a certain agenda. Intellectual honesty, accuracy, and integrity has taken a back seat. I can't think of anything more dangerous, especially with what's at stake here. This is a defining issue of our times.
Click to expand...
And that is why both sides need to be heard

 
DocHolliday said:
The Commish said:
timschochet said:
Why should I stop it, Hang 10?

So long as there are conservatives who honestly believe that we will do away with Obamacare, there's going to be more pain rather than less. People need to accept reality. It's here to stay.
Click to expand...
meh....pain inflicted thus far has nothing to do with the right. They're a bunch of idiots but they didn't pass this thing. The "pain" you're seeing right now is on the shoulders of all who passed this stuff in it's current state. Now, if the GOP decides to intentionally stand in the way of repairing this cluster, then they can join in sharing the blame. The dems will be on the hook for passing it as it is (not knowing what's really in it to see all the loopholes and angles out) and the GOP will be on the hook for sitting there and letting it burn for political reasons while making us as citizens suffer the consequences. Right now, we're just in the first phase.
Click to expand...
The GOP is stupid so they probably will screw up this opportunity. It would absolutely be policital suicide to stand in the way of any repairs. The GOP should repeat over and over to the media that they will gladly join the dems on any workable fixes that are brought forward. The GOP should not say much. I would let the citizens and numbers do the talking.
Click to expand...
Agreed, but we're already hearing from :hophead: that the GOP should just sit back and watch it burn. Short of trying to repeal this thing 5 million times, the GOP has little to do with this law. This is all on Obama and the dems. In a very short period of time the dems have handed over the power to the GOP. Why? I'm not sure, but they have. None of these guys seem to be able to see the forest for the trees.

 
Ballstein said:
DrJ said:
timschochet said:
humpback said:
So Tim claims to be a "moderate", yet continues to read/listen to the most partisan sources to get his "news", and actually believes them and thinks they're credible? So bizarre.
Click to expand...
I try to listen to everything. Unfortunately most of what's written about Obamacare at this point is heavily polarized. But as far as what I post here, it's mostly good news. So many people here are already posting bad news, I don't feel the need to add to that.
Click to expand...
You're not portraying the effects of this bill in an accurate fashion. What you're doing is actually very dangerous for our country.
Click to expand...
Why? Because he doesn't report the stories you want to hear on foxnews?
Click to expand...
Because he's guilty of the very thing you charge a Fox with, selectively filtering the evidence they highlight in order to give a distorted version of the facts and further their agenda. The people behaving this way and their mentality are the single greatest threat our country has ever faced.

 
DocHolliday said:
The Commish said:
timschochet said:
Why should I stop it, Hang 10?

So long as there are conservatives who honestly believe that we will do away with Obamacare, there's going to be more pain rather than less. People need to accept reality. It's here to stay.
Click to expand...
meh....pain inflicted thus far has nothing to do with the right. They're a bunch of idiots but they didn't pass this thing. The "pain" you're seeing right now is on the shoulders of all who passed this stuff in it's current state. Now, if the GOP decides to intentionally stand in the way of repairing this cluster, then they can join in sharing the blame. The dems will be on the hook for passing it as it is (not knowing what's really in it to see all the loopholes and angles out) and the GOP will be on the hook for sitting there and letting it burn for political reasons while making us as citizens suffer the consequences. Right now, we're just in the first phase.
Click to expand...
The GOP is stupid so they probably will screw up this opportunity. It would absolutely be policital suicide to stand in the way of any repairs. The GOP should repeat over and over to the media that they will gladly join the dems on any workable fixes that are brought forward. The GOP should not say much. I would let the citizens and numbers do the talking.
Click to expand...
LOL at the idea that the GOP wants to "fix" health care. They've been fighting this for 50+ years, they're not going to give in now especially since they've convinced so many of their sheep that legislation that is overwhelmingly beneficial is going to "BANKRUPT AMERICA AND KILL GRANDMA!!!!"

 
I think there are plenty from both sides of the aisle that would like to "fix" healthcare. Unfortunately they only want their side of the aisle to get credit for it so neither side is willing to look at the other's proposals and actually try to accomplish something meaningful.

 
timschochet said:
The Commish said:
timschochet said:
Why should I stop it, Hang 10?

So long as there are conservatives who honestly believe that we will do away with Obamacare, there's going to be more pain rather than less. People need to accept reality. It's here to stay.
Click to expand...
meh....pain inflicted thus far has nothing to do with the right. They're a bunch of idiots but they didn't pass this thing. The "pain" you're seeing right now is on the shoulders of all who passed this stuff in it's current state. Now, if the GOP decides to intentionally stand in the way of repairing this cluster, then they can join in sharing the blame. The dems will be on the hook for passing it as it is (not knowing what's really in it to see all the loopholes and angles out) and the GOP will be on the hook for sitting there and letting it burn for political reasons while making us as citizens suffer the consequences. Right now, we're just in the first phase.
Click to expand...
I don't agree with this. You can't that the Republican governors who refuse to accept the Medicaid funds or the navigators, and the conservative efforts to convince young people not to sign up, aren't having a detrimental effect. They're not to blame for all of the problems, but they're to blame for some.
Click to expand...
I can't believe the Republicans and the tea party screwed up the Obamacare rollout so badly. :mellow:

Shameful.

 
timschochet said:
I appreciate matttyl's posts. I have learned quite a bit from them. I don't disagree with most of his points, but I'm not always sure they paint the overall picture that he thinks they do.

matttyl is like a foot soldier in a big war. He knows way more than I do (I'm a civilian, far away from the battle) but as to overall military strategy and whether or not our side is winning either the battle or the war, I'm not sure his judgment can be trusted over the generals in charge.
Click to expand...
The General who's changing horses midstream? Yeah, he knows what's going on in the trenches....

 
timschochet said:
humpback said:
So Tim claims to be a "moderate", yet continues to read/listen to the most partisan sources to get his "news", and actually believes them and thinks they're credible? So bizarre.
Click to expand...
I try to listen to everything. Unfortunately most of what's written about Obamacare at this point is heavily polarized. But as far as what I post here, it's mostly good news. So many people here are already posting bad news, I don't feel the need to add to that.
Click to expand...
You post mostly good news, except when those dastardly Republicans and Tea Party are screwing up this flawless rollout. Then its okay to post bad news. :mellow:

 
timschochet said:
DrJ said:
timschochet said:
DrJ said:
timschochet said:
humpback said:
So Tim claims to be a "moderate", yet continues to read/listen to the most partisan sources to get his "news", and actually believes them and thinks they're credible? So bizarre.
Click to expand...
I try to listen to everything. Unfortunately most of what's written about Obamacare at this point is heavily polarized. But as far as what I post here, it's mostly good news. So many people here are already posting bad news, I don't feel the need to add to that.
Click to expand...
You're not portraying the effects of this bill in an accurate fashion. What you're doing is actually very dangerous for our country.
Click to expand...
I'll bite. How in the world is anything that I'm doing on an internet board "dangerous for our country."? And how do you know that what I'm portraying is inaccurate?
Click to expand...
Because you admit that you're selectively filtering the news you highlight in order to achieve a certain theme to your postings. Accuracy isn't your top priority. This is extremely dangerous.
Click to expand...
:lol: I'm not filtering any "news". There almost isn't any real news about Obamacare these days- only opinion pieces.
Click to expand...
So 5 million people didn't lose their coverage so far, with tens of millions more waiting to happen in the next 12 months? Premiums aren't going through the roof for people who already had coverage who now have to give it up? That's all "opinion"?

 
tommyGunZ said:
DocHolliday said:
The Commish said:
timschochet said:
Why should I stop it, Hang 10?

So long as there are conservatives who honestly believe that we will do away with Obamacare, there's going to be more pain rather than less. People need to accept reality. It's here to stay.
Click to expand...
meh....pain inflicted thus far has nothing to do with the right. They're a bunch of idiots but they didn't pass this thing. The "pain" you're seeing right now is on the shoulders of all who passed this stuff in it's current state. Now, if the GOP decides to intentionally stand in the way of repairing this cluster, then they can join in sharing the blame. The dems will be on the hook for passing it as it is (not knowing what's really in it to see all the loopholes and angles out) and the GOP will be on the hook for sitting there and letting it burn for political reasons while making us as citizens suffer the consequences. Right now, we're just in the first phase.
Click to expand...
The GOP is stupid so they probably will screw up this opportunity. It would absolutely be policital suicide to stand in the way of any repairs. The GOP should repeat over and over to the media that they will gladly join the dems on any workable fixes that are brought forward. The GOP should not say much. I would let the citizens and numbers do the talking.
Click to expand...
LOL at the idea that the GOP wants to "fix" health care. They've been fighting this for 50+ years, they're not going to give in now especially since they've convinced so many of their sheep that legislation that is overwhelmingly beneficial is going to "BANKRUPT AMERICA AND KILL GRANDMA!!!!"
Click to expand...
The revisionist history is strong in this one :lmao: You've officially jumped the shark....not sure why anyone (myself included) bothers to respond to your garbage.

 
Courtjester said:
Their total enrollee goal for the open enrollment period is 465,000, but here is the kicker, when Hewitt asked what's the breakdown goal was, they didn't have one. In other words, how many in each category do they need to make the program sustainable, they don't have a clue and haven't run those numbers.
Click to expand...
Oh, bull####. For their projections of course they have a goal. They just don't want to divulge those, as that creates accountability. They certainly as hell don't want that. Much easier to speak in generalities rather than data driven decisions/evaluations.


timschochet said:
I don't agree with this. You can't that the Republican governors who refuse to accept the Medicaid funds or the navigators, and the conservative efforts to convince young people not to sign up, aren't having a detrimental effect. They're not to blame for all of the problems, but they're to blame for some.
Click to expand...
All of this should have been anticipated. And, really, it is pretty much chaff compared to the basic structural inadequacy of this devised system.


DocHolliday said:
The GOP is stupid so they probably will screw up this opportunity. It would absolutely be policital suicide to stand in the way of any repairs. The GOP should repeat over and over to the media that they will gladly join the dems on any workable fixes that are brought forward. The GOP should not say much. I would let the citizens and numbers do the talking.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. And, in good faith, the Democrats should extend an olive branch to get this done. How about putting entitlement programs back on the table for one large, overaching deal here? Reinstate the just-revoked Senate filibuster rule?

 
Foosball God said:
I think there are plenty from both sides of the aisle that would like to "fix" healthcare. Unfortunately they only want their side of the aisle to get credit for it so neither side is willing to look at the other's proposals and actually try to accomplish something meaningful.
Click to expand...
Bingo!

 
tommyGunZ said:
DocHolliday said:
The Commish said:
timschochet said:
Why should I stop it, Hang 10?

So long as there are conservatives who honestly believe that we will do away with Obamacare, there's going to be more pain rather than less. People need to accept reality. It's here to stay.
Click to expand...
meh....pain inflicted thus far has nothing to do with the right. They're a bunch of idiots but they didn't pass this thing. The "pain" you're seeing right now is on the shoulders of all who passed this stuff in it's current state. Now, if the GOP decides to intentionally stand in the way of repairing this cluster, then they can join in sharing the blame. The dems will be on the hook for passing it as it is (not knowing what's really in it to see all the loopholes and angles out) and the GOP will be on the hook for sitting there and letting it burn for political reasons while making us as citizens suffer the consequences. Right now, we're just in the first phase.
Click to expand...
The GOP is stupid so they probably will screw up this opportunity. It would absolutely be policital suicide to stand in the way of any repairs. The GOP should repeat over and over to the media that they will gladly join the dems on any workable fixes that are brought forward. The GOP should not say much. I would let the citizens and numbers do the talking.
Click to expand...
LOL at the idea that the GOP wants to "fix" health care. They've been fighting this for 50+ years, they're not going to give in now especially since they've convinced so many of their sheep that legislation that is overwhelmingly beneficial is going to "BANKRUPT AMERICA AND KILL GRANDMA!!!!"
Click to expand...
No mention of Benghazi? You're slipping.

 
tommyGunZ said:
DocHolliday said:
The Commish said:
timschochet said:
Why should I stop it, Hang 10?

So long as there are conservatives who honestly believe that we will do away with Obamacare, there's going to be more pain rather than less. People need to accept reality. It's here to stay.
Click to expand...
meh....pain inflicted thus far has nothing to do with the right. They're a bunch of idiots but they didn't pass this thing. The "pain" you're seeing right now is on the shoulders of all who passed this stuff in it's current state. Now, if the GOP decides to intentionally stand in the way of repairing this cluster, then they can join in sharing the blame. The dems will be on the hook for passing it as it is (not knowing what's really in it to see all the loopholes and angles out) and the GOP will be on the hook for sitting there and letting it burn for political reasons while making us as citizens suffer the consequences. Right now, we're just in the first phase.
Click to expand...
The GOP is stupid so they probably will screw up this opportunity. It would absolutely be policital suicide to stand in the way of any repairs. The GOP should repeat over and over to the media that they will gladly join the dems on any workable fixes that are brought forward. The GOP should not say much. I would let the citizens and numbers do the talking.
Click to expand...
LOL at the idea that the GOP wants to "fix" health care. They've been fighting this for 50+ years, they're not going to give in now especially since they've convinced so many of their sheep that legislation that is overwhelmingly beneficial is going to "BANKRUPT AMERICA AND KILL GRANDMA!!!!"
Click to expand...
So sorry. The Democrats have claimed the Kill Grandma trademark.

 
matttyl said:
timschochet said:
DrJ said:
timschochet said:
DrJ said:
timschochet said:
humpback said:
So Tim claims to be a "moderate", yet continues to read/listen to the most partisan sources to get his "news", and actually believes them and thinks they're credible? So bizarre.
Click to expand...
I try to listen to everything. Unfortunately most of what's written about Obamacare at this point is heavily polarized. But as far as what I post here, it's mostly good news. So many people here are already posting bad news, I don't feel the need to add to that.
Click to expand...
You're not portraying the effects of this bill in an accurate fashion. What you're doing is actually very dangerous for our country.
Click to expand...
I'll bite. How in the world is anything that I'm doing on an internet board "dangerous for our country."? And how do you know that what I'm portraying is inaccurate?
Click to expand...
Because you admit that you're selectively filtering the news you highlight in order to achieve a certain theme to your postings. Accuracy isn't your top priority. This is extremely dangerous.
Click to expand...
:lol: I'm not filtering any "news". There almost isn't any real news about Obamacare these days- only opinion pieces.
Click to expand...
So 5 million people didn't lose their coverage so far, with tens of millions more waiting to happen in the next 12 months? Premiums aren't going through the roof for people who already had coverage who now have to give it up? That's all "opinion"?
Click to expand...
Didn't you hear that 94,000 people signed up in California? It is proof beyond a doubt this thing works. The 5 million people that lost their coverage is just a computer glitch.

 
Obama should have let those 5 million Americans keep their insurance, even if it doesn't conform to the newer compliance standard. If minimum wage went up, and people liked their old wages, let 'em keep it, don't take away their jobs.

 
Ballstein said:
Obama should have let those 5 million Americans keep their insurance, even if it doesn't conform to the newer compliance standard. If minimum wage went up, and people liked their old wages, let 'em keep it, don't take away their jobs.
Click to expand...
Very, very poor comparison. Obama actually made the better comparison talking about cars. Some people like their older cars rather than new ones with all the bells and whistles that they neither want or need, and certainly don't feel like paying for. My personal car is nearly a decade old, should I be forced to replace it even if I like it?

 
Joe T said:
timschochet said:
The Commish said:
timschochet said:
Why should I stop it, Hang 10?

So long as there are conservatives who honestly believe that we will do away with Obamacare, there's going to be more pain rather than less. People need to accept reality. It's here to stay.
Click to expand...
meh....pain inflicted thus far has nothing to do with the right. They're a bunch of idiots but they didn't pass this thing. The "pain" you're seeing right now is on the shoulders of all who passed this stuff in it's current state. Now, if the GOP decides to intentionally stand in the way of repairing this cluster, then they can join in sharing the blame. The dems will be on the hook for passing it as it is (not knowing what's really in it to see all the loopholes and angles out) and the GOP will be on the hook for sitting there and letting it burn for political reasons while making us as citizens suffer the consequences. Right now, we're just in the first phase.
Click to expand...
I don't agree with this. You can't that the Republican governors who refuse to accept the Medicaid funds or the navigators, and the conservative efforts to convince young people not to sign up, aren't having a detrimental effect. They're not to blame for all of the problems, but they're to blame for some.
Click to expand...
I can't believe the Republicans and the tea party screwed up the Obamacare rollout so badly. :mellow:

Shameful.
Click to expand...
Tim inches closer to Lee Harvey Oswald every day.

 
The Commish said:
tommyGunZ said:
DocHolliday said:
The Commish said:
timschochet said:
Why should I stop it, Hang 10?

So long as there are conservatives who honestly believe that we will do away with Obamacare, there's going to be more pain rather than less. People need to accept reality. It's here to stay.
Click to expand...
meh....pain inflicted thus far has nothing to do with the right. They're a bunch of idiots but they didn't pass this thing. The "pain" you're seeing right now is on the shoulders of all who passed this stuff in it's current state. Now, if the GOP decides to intentionally stand in the way of repairing this cluster, then they can join in sharing the blame. The dems will be on the hook for passing it as it is (not knowing what's really in it to see all the loopholes and angles out) and the GOP will be on the hook for sitting there and letting it burn for political reasons while making us as citizens suffer the consequences. Right now, we're just in the first phase.
Click to expand...
The GOP is stupid so they probably will screw up this opportunity. It would absolutely be policital suicide to stand in the way of any repairs. The GOP should repeat over and over to the media that they will gladly join the dems on any workable fixes that are brought forward. The GOP should not say much. I would let the citizens and numbers do the talking.
Click to expand...
LOL at the idea that the GOP wants to "fix" health care. They've been fighting this for 50+ years, they're not going to give in now especially since they've convinced so many of their sheep that legislation that is overwhelmingly beneficial is going to "BANKRUPT AMERICA AND KILL GRANDMA!!!!"
Click to expand...
The revisionist history is strong in this one :lmao: You've officially jumped the shark....not sure why anyone (myself included) bothers to respond to your garbage.
Click to expand...
All you have to do is make enough fun of Kobe/Lakers and he'll put you on ignore.

 
timschochet said:
So here's what's likely to happen: Obamacare is not going to be repealed. As the enrollment increases, the prices will eventually go down, and people will become accustomed to it. . The Republicans MAY get some traction from this next November, though that is very much in question. Obama and the Democrats are now implying rather heavily that all of Obamacare's problems are due to Republican refusal to cooperate. While this is not exactly true, it's at least a little bit true IMO, and it may have more play than people realize, given the public's dismal opinion of the Republican party (at an all time low.)

In addition to this, prior to November, there's going to be at least two budget crisis, plus immigration reform is not going away. In other words, the Tea Party dominated- GOP is going to have plenty of time to make fools of themselves yet again. So while right now things look bad for Democrats, I don't expect that to last.
Click to expand...
The issues with Obamacare are on those who wrote and voted for the bill, none of which are Republicans. It wouldn't suprise me if Obama can talk the public into believing that the GOP is causing the ACA's failures, but it's not remotely true.

The odds of the GOP even allowing a vote on immigration reform after the stunt the Democrats pulled with the filibuster rule changes are basically nil.

 
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