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Official Kirk Cousins - GETS his chance, now what?

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Defending RG3 by saying his OLine is awful is lazy and simply making excuses for him

Some of the pressure RG3 gets is absolutely not his fault, sure. But much of it is by him not properly avoiding pressure (his pocket awareness is really bad right now) or holding on to the ball too long. The latter could be a result of WRs not getting open or RG3 not progressing through his reads fast enough.

I believe a good example of this is the Philly qb situation with Foles and Vick, or Cleveland with Hoyer (sample size). Beginning the season the philly oline was thought to be a sieve. Vick took lots of hits and was seemingly constanly under duress. Then Foles comes in (completely immobile) and the oline suddenly improves.

Foles smartly avoids pressure and has excellent timing with his wrs. The oline issues still exist, Foles just handles the rush much, much better than Vick. Even while being less mobile.

I believe RG3 (especially last night against SF) and Luck are both working with receivers that have difficulty getting consistent separation.

So I guess I wouldn't be opposed to seeing how Cousins would fare because I honestly don't see how the qb play could be any worse. Given how RG3 has played in all but a few garbage-time quarters can we really say he gives Washington the best chance to win? I say no. Keeping him in for developmental reasons is beyond silly at this point

This PFF ranking supports my claims imo Washington has the 4th highest rated line in the league

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/11/20/ranking-the-2013-offensive-lines-second-quarter/5/

Edited by maf005

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I still believe in RG3 long term. I would shut him down only to not put him at risk for another injury, not to pave the way for Cousins.

But that's not how the NFL works.

Should the Falcons sit Ryan since they can't make the playoffs & don't want him to get hurt?

Should TB stop playing Glennon since they aren't going to make the playoffs, and he looks like he might be their QB of the future?

Should Jax.......never mind.

This isn't even about football, it's about business. You have to consider protecting your biggest asset.

If it was my team then yes. Ryan doesn't have the same concerns as RG3. Maybe you run the ball 50x's a game here. Atl won't even throw guys like Antone Smith out to see if he offers more than Quizz, so don't get me started on them. It's time to evaluated the roster for next year if you not competing for the playoffs.

Glennon is still being evaluated and is a cheap asset. TB didn't give up the farm for him. A good example of why I think this way would be last season with D. Martin. I thought limiting his touches in the last few weeks would be just as smart. But Schiano is some hard ### from another planet that continued to give him 300 carries a game. There is no benefit to that at all vs evaluating backup and resting Martin.

Personally, I'd give 3rd-4th string players a chance to prove themselves while protecting my building blocks. I dont care how the NFL works. Id go straight Greg Popovich. The rest of the season would be like Preseason game to an extent.

This isn't about football? The reason RGIII is their biggest asset is because he PLAYS FOOTBALL!!

It's not your team, though, and if you did own the Redskins, you wouldn't think the way you are posting. Besides you are contradicting yourself. You say Glennon is still being evaluated, but so is RGIII. He needs to show that he can read defenses better, progress through his reads better, etc.

As for your Greg Popovich comment, that's basketball, not football. The NBA has an 82-game season, so there are way more opportunities to "see what other players have." Similar to MLB and the NHL, those are long seasons where you can use stretches of time when you are out of contention, or have locked in a playoff berth/seed, and can give your backups a shot. The NFL doesn't have that. They have 16 regular season games, and then 4 pre-season games that do not simulate a regular season game. That is why Martin was getting carries last year, because it was in the team's best interests to allow him to get that work in, AND to demonstrate to their fans that they haven't "thrown in the towel." That is why RGIII is going to continue to play, as long as he is healthy, despite what you, bloggers, or talking heads say on TV.

I tried to re-read this post to make sure it doesn't seem like I'm attacking you. I'm not, and if it gives that impression, I'm sorry. It just seems like the reporters, bloggers, and "experts" should know that NFL teams don't give back-ups a shot when they have a young QB who needs the work. It sends the wrong message to the team, to the fans, and to the players involved (starter and backups).

I don't think you understood me. I wouldn't sit RG3 solely on football. With less than 1% chance of making the playoffs my main concern is a healthy RG3 week 1 of 2014. You'd majestically start hearing about swelling he experienced in his knee. He will have to get better in the many other ways I pay people millions for.

Trust me, everything you say sound good, but it's apart of the reason coaches get fired every 2-3 years by drinking the same old kool-aid. You are not telling me anything that I haven't heard before or didn't expect as a rebuttal. And I'm sure I'd know if I own the redskins or not. You would too after I changed the name to the flying pigs or something.

Isn't this a team? If you want to be all cliché and create a winning culture for your fan base/locker room then what is the harm is sitting a below avg QB for one that played well when given a chance? Winning isn't even good for your draft position at this point. I'm not saying go lose the game. If Cousins goes all Nick Foles on us you now have another asset! Only some players can win and others can't? That doesn't sound like much of a team/family to me.

Martin was ran into the ground with 300+ carries. His backups looked better than him this season. Can I blame Schanio for that after all of that work he got in a meaningless week 17 game? No, were trying to win! And i'm not contradicting myself. I'm adding context. RG3 showed what he can do when he is right. Something is up. He's missing plays that were routine for him until now. As of now I'm concerned and doing the best thing for him longterm by pulling the plug. If you trust you evaluation that he's a once in a generation talent that will lead you for a decade then why the hell is missing 2-3 meaningless games such a big deal? Does Cousins not need work?

And no basketball isn't different. It's still professional sports where players age like milk. Any chance guys can get to not pound their bodies is good.

Your opinion is well stated, and I understand the logic behind, but the simple truth is that isn't how the NFL works. Right or wrong, that is the case. Again, if you owned the Washington flying pigs, you would be less likely to "rest" RGIII if it was going to cost you a significant amount of money because upset fans don't pay for parking, buy concessions, buy jerseys etc, even if it might be "smart" to do so.

But with regards to the bolded, I disagree. If you only get 16 games in a season to experience game action, that is most definitely different than a league that has 82, plus a D-league that allows some evaluation. There is no "minor league" of football (since the CFL doesn't import many players, and NFL-Europe got shut down). The only time players can truly experience an NFL game is during the regular season. Those games are two "precious" (for lack of a better word) to waste them by seeing what a backup can do. You have to let your starters and main guys get that work.

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Defending RG3 by saying his OLine is awful is lazy and simply making excuses for him

Some of the pressure RG3 gets is absolutely not his fault, sure. But much of it is by him not properly avoiding pressure (his pocket awareness is really bad right now) or holding on to the ball too long. The latter could be a result of WRs not getting open or RG3 not progressing through his reads fast enough.

I believe a good example of this is the Philly qb situation with Foles and Vick, or Cleveland with Hoyer (sample size). Beginning the season the philly oline was thought to be a sieve. Vick took lots of hits and was seemingly constanly under duress. Then Foles comes in (completely immobile) and the oline suddenly improves.

Foles smartly avoids pressure and has excellent timing with his wrs. The oline issues still exist, Foles just handles the rush much, much better than Vick. Even while being less mobile.

I believe RG3 (especially last night against SF) and Luck are both working with receivers that have difficulty getting consistent separation.

So I guess I wouldn't be opposed to seeing how Cousins would fare because I honestly don't see how the qb play could be any worse. Given how RG3 has played in all but a few garbage-time quarters can we really say he gives Washington the best chance to win? I say no. Keeping him in for developmental reasons is beyond silly at this point

This PFF ranking supports my claims imo Washington has the 4th highest rated line in the league

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/11/20/ranking-the-2013-offensive-lines-second-quarter/5/

:goodposting: Lichtensteiger, Polumbus, and Williams are studs.

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So, I'm called a troll for starting this thread, yet it is all over the 4 letter network and there are plenty in this thread who share my opinion.

You are a troll to those unable to analyze QB play.

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Get rid of the football quick like a real QB and you won't have the problems he has. Run around like a fool and things won't end well. Never has, never will.

Roethlisberger did this and won 2 Super Bowls, while playing in a 3rd.

You may want to check your definition of the word "never."

There is a difference between scrambling (Ben) and just running around like this guy. Putting Ben and this guy in the same sentence is laughable.

Edited by lod01

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Good to see RW inject some common sense into the conversation.

Speaking Tuesday, Redskins coach Mike Shanahan brushed off talk that Robert Griffin III should be benched.

A surprising number of people seem to believe Kirk Cousins is the answer to the Redskins' woes, but Shanny rightfully isn't having it. "It doesn't happen overnight," Shanahan said of RGIII's development. "You need those repetitions." Shanahan still believes Griffin has "all the ability in the world to make that big jump." The suggestion that the Redskins should bench Griffin — a player they surrendered three first-round picks for — down the stretch of a lost season is absolutely asinine, and would set back, not further, the team's agenda heading into 2014. Shanahan could be gone next year, but the Redskins have far too much invested in RGIII to pull the plug any time soon. He needs, and deserves, time after returning from a catastrophic knee injury.

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Get rid of the football quick like a real QB and you won't have the problems he has. Run around like a fool and things won't end well. Never has, never will.

Roethlisberger did this and won 2 Super Bowls, while playing in a 3rd.

You may want to check your definition of the word "never."

There is a difference between scrambling (Ben) and just running around like this guy. Putting Ben and this guy in the same sentence is laughable.

Your QB analysis is laughable, and clearly doesn't extend past repeating "running around" over and over trying to make some sort of point.

We get it, you treat different types of QBs very differently.

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Defending RG3 by saying his OLine is awful is lazy and simply making excuses for him

Some of the pressure RG3 gets is absolutely not his fault, sure. But much of it is by him not properly avoiding pressure (his pocket awareness is really bad right now) or holding on to the ball too long. The latter could be a result of WRs not getting open or RG3 not progressing through his reads fast enough.

I believe a good example of this is the Philly qb situation with Foles and Vick, or Cleveland with Hoyer (sample size). Beginning the season the philly oline was thought to be a sieve. Vick took lots of hits and was seemingly constanly under duress. Then Foles comes in (completely immobile) and the oline suddenly improves.

Foles smartly avoids pressure and has excellent timing with his wrs. The oline issues still exist, Foles just handles the rush much, much better than Vick. Even while being less mobile.

I believe RG3 (especially last night against SF) and Luck are both working with receivers that have difficulty getting consistent separation.

So I guess I wouldn't be opposed to seeing how Cousins would fare because I honestly don't see how the qb play could be any worse. Given how RG3 has played in all but a few garbage-time quarters can we really say he gives Washington the best chance to win? I say no. Keeping him in for developmental reasons is beyond silly at this point

This PFF ranking supports my claims imo Washington has the 4th highest rated line in the league

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/11/20/ranking-the-2013-offensive-lines-second-quarter/5/

Honest question: Do you really think that Denver's current O-line, the one that has been ravaged with injuries, is the #1 (that's right, very top of the league) in pass-blocking? Because your cited rankings as proof and those rankings say they're #1.

Common sense, and actually watching the Redskins play now and then, can quickly tell you all you need to know here. PFF's pass-blocking stats are severely flawed. I have no doubt they ranked Peyton's Indy O-line as top of the line too, until the moment his quick release and decision making suffered a neck injury. Suddenly, magically, the backup QB was getting sacked at the highest rate in the league. Funny how dependent these rankings are on the QB, isn't it?

Using the PFF as the be-all, end-all of rankings for O-lines is lazy. Just open your eyes and watch a Redskins game, that'll tell you all you need to know about their pass blocking.

Edited by Warrior

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Defending RG3 by saying his OLine is awful is lazy and simply making excuses for him

Some of the pressure RG3 gets is absolutely not his fault, sure. But much of it is by him not properly avoiding pressure (his pocket awareness is really bad right now) or holding on to the ball too long. The latter could be a result of WRs not getting open or RG3 not progressing through his reads fast enough.

I believe a good example of this is the Philly qb situation with Foles and Vick, or Cleveland with Hoyer (sample size). Beginning the season the philly oline was thought to be a sieve. Vick took lots of hits and was seemingly constanly under duress. Then Foles comes in (completely immobile) and the oline suddenly improves.

Foles smartly avoids pressure and has excellent timing with his wrs. The oline issues still exist, Foles just handles the rush much, much better than Vick. Even while being less mobile.

I believe RG3 (especially last night against SF) and Luck are both working with receivers that have difficulty getting consistent separation.

So I guess I wouldn't be opposed to seeing how Cousins would fare because I honestly don't see how the qb play could be any worse. Given how RG3 has played in all but a few garbage-time quarters can we really say he gives Washington the best chance to win? I say no. Keeping him in for developmental reasons is beyond silly at this point

This PFF ranking supports my claims imo Washington has the 4th highest rated line in the league

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/11/20/ranking-the-2013-offensive-lines-second-quarter/5/

Honest question: Do you really think that Denver's current O-line, the one that has been ravaged with injuries, is the #1 (that's right, very top of the league) in pass-blocking? Because your cited rankings as proof and those rankings say they're #1.

Common sense, and actually watching the Redskins play now and then, can quickly tell you all you need to know here. PFF's pass-blocking stats are severely flawed. I have no doubt they ranked Peyton's Indy O-line as top of the line too, until the moment his quick release and decision making suffered a neck injury. Suddenly, magically, the backup QB was getting sacked at the highest rate in the league. Funny how dependent these rankings are on the QB, isn't it?

Using the PFF as the be-all, end-all of rankings for O-lines is lazy. Just open your eyes and watch a Redskins game, that'll tell you all you need to know about their pass blocking.

I honestly have never looked at the different metrics and analyses that go into PFF's oline rankings but I do know that they are widely cited as being credible.

Denver being ranked #1 indicates there are some results-based numbers used (results-based as in the qb didn't get pressured ergo the o-line did it's job, not adjusting for individual qb variables etc) but doesn't that assumption mean that RG3 shares a larger portion of the blame than expected?

And I know I'm coming off as a RG3 hater or whatever but when I watch Washington play I notice how jittery/frantic/terrified RG3 looks in the pocket. That and his egregious overthrows

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Good to see RW inject some common sense into the conversation.

Speaking Tuesday, Redskins coach Mike Shanahan brushed off talk that Robert Griffin III should be benched.

A surprising number of people seem to believe Kirk Cousins is the answer to the Redskins' woes, but Shanny rightfully isn't having it. "It doesn't happen overnight," Shanahan said of RGIII's development. "You need those repetitions." Shanahan still believes Griffin has "all the ability in the world to make that big jump." The suggestion that the Redskins should bench Griffin — a player they surrendered three first-round picks for — down the stretch of a lost season is absolutely asinine, and would set back, not further, the team's agenda heading into 2014. Shanahan could be gone next year, but the Redskins have far too much invested in RGIII to pull the plug any time soon. He needs, and deserves, time after returning from a catastrophic knee injury.

Ridiculous to just assume sitting him the rest of this year automatically stunts his growth. Priority number one should be winning games. Griffin puts the team at a disadvantage weekly. And I actually have a feeling this kid needs rest more than reps.

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Get rid of the football quick like a real QB and you won't have the problems he has. Run around like a fool and things won't end well. Never has, never will.

Roethlisberger did this and won 2 Super Bowls, while playing in a 3rd.

You may want to check your definition of the word "never."

There is a difference between scrambling (Ben) and just running around like this guy. Putting Ben and this guy in the same sentence is laughable.

Yes, there it. The difference is you have an opinion of one of them that is not based on fact, and are unable to use facts to support that opinion.

You want to say RGIII can't read defenses, doesn't progress through his options, etc, then say that. (I'd still disagree, but that's another subject). But don't make some stupid statement that aren't based in facts & hope they won't get challenged.

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Good to see RW inject some common sense into the conversation.

Speaking Tuesday, Redskins coach Mike Shanahan brushed off talk that Robert Griffin III should be benched.

A surprising number of people seem to believe Kirk Cousins is the answer to the Redskins' woes, but Shanny rightfully isn't having it. "It doesn't happen overnight," Shanahan said of RGIII's development. "You need those repetitions." Shanahan still believes Griffin has "all the ability in the world to make that big jump." The suggestion that the Redskins should bench Griffin — a player they surrendered three first-round picks for — down the stretch of a lost season is absolutely asinine, and would set back, not further, the team's agenda heading into 2014. Shanahan could be gone next year, but the Redskins have far too much invested in RGIII to pull the plug any time soon. He needs, and deserves, time after returning from a catastrophic knee injury.

Ridiculous to just assume sitting him the rest of this year automatically stunts his growth. Priority number one should be winning games. Griffin puts the team at a disadvantage weekly. And I actually have a feeling this kid needs rest more than reps.

Not at this point. They aren't making the playoffs, so winning games shouldn't be the priority. The priority should be to improve the team. And getting RGIII reps (and hopefully re-building his confidence) would improve the team more than getting 2 more wins.

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Get rid of the football quick like a real QB and you won't have the problems he has. Run around like a fool and things won't end well. Never has, never will.

Roethlisberger did this and won 2 Super Bowls, while playing in a 3rd.

You may want to check your definition of the word "never."

This might be one of the worst comparisons I've ever read.

What comparison? I didn't compare Ben and RGIII. I merely responded to your mis-guided post that if you:

Get rid of the football quick like a real QB and you won't have the problems he has. Run around like a fool and things won't end well. Never has, never will.

That is exactly what Roethlisberger did before Arians left: he would hold onto the ball forever, pump fake and pump fake, scramble around, make big plays, take big hits (he's been sacked 30+ times every season save his 2nd & only played 16 games once), & he went to 3 SuperBowls, winning two.

I think winning a SB is, in NFL terms, the very definition of "ending well," so obviously your comment was inaccurate.

Let's face it, reading and QB comparisons just aren't your thing.

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I like Kirk Cousins and think he will be more successful at the QB position than RG3 long term. As soon as his rookie contract is up he will be starting for someone.

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Get rid of the football quick like a real QB and you won't have the problems he has. Run around like a fool and things won't end well. Never has, never will.

Roethlisberger did this and won 2 Super Bowls, while playing in a 3rd.

You may want to check your definition of the word "never."

This might be one of the worst comparisons I've ever read.

What comparison? I didn't compare Ben and RGIII. I merely responded to your mis-guided post that if you:

Get rid of the football quick like a real QB and you won't have the problems he has. Run around like a fool and things won't end well. Never has, never will.

That is exactly what Roethlisberger did before Arians left: he would hold onto the ball forever, pump fake and pump fake, scramble around, make big plays, take big hits (he's been sacked 30+ times every season save his 2nd & only played 16 games once), & he went to 3 SuperBowls, winning two.

I think winning a SB is, in NFL terms, the very definition of "ending well," so obviously your comment was inaccurate.

Let's face it, reading and QB comparisons just aren't your thing.

OK, obviously your reading comprehension is bad because I did not compare Roethlisberger and Griffin, (in fact I specifically said I didn't compare them) I compared Roethlisberger and RGIII; what I did was prove that the original post was inaccurate. It said you had to get rid of the football quick to be a "real QB," and when QBs "ran around like a fool," it never ended well.

Roethlisberger is an example of a QB who doesn't get rid of the ball quick, yet he is most definitely a "real QB," and in several seasons, it couldn't have ended any better.

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I like Kirk Cousins and think he will be more successful at the QB position than RG3 long term. As soon as his rookie contract is up he will be starting for someone.

I disagree on both points.

Cousins will be traded before his rookie contract is up.

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:goodposting: Lichtensteiger, Polumbus, and Williams are studs.

:lmao: Have you ever watched Polumbus play? Lichtensteiger holds his own most of the time, Montgomery gets pushed around a bit, Chester gets pushed around a lot, and Polumbus makes all of them look like Hercules. The guy's terrible.

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I like Kirk Cousins and think he will be more successful at the QB position than RG3 long term. As soon as his rookie contract is up he will be starting for someone.

I disagree on both points.

Cousins will be traded before his rookie contract is up.

I doubt they trade Cousins because of the durability issues with RG3.

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I like Kirk Cousins and think he will be more successful at the QB position than RG3 long term. As soon as his rookie contract is up he will be starting for someone.

I disagree on both points.

Cousins will be traded before his rookie contract is up.

I doubt they trade Cousins because of the durability issues with RG3.

I agree. Most starting QB's don't play all 16 games any more due to injury, and we've seen this year how inadequate QB backups can really sink a team.

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The Redskins would have been better off in the long run drafting Cousins in the 4th and letting him develop and keeping all the high draft picks.

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This is what I posted in the skins thread before seeing this one:

I know people believe Griffin needs to be in there getting snaps and getting experience. But I disagree. It wasn't that long ago when QBs were drafted and carried clipboards for a few YEARS before they were given a starting gig. In today's high priced league, teams can't afford to sit these guys like that. But I think at this point, it would benefit Griffin way more to get to sit back and watch Cousins play than to go out there and get killed week in and week out. He could sit back, watch the game while not getting crushed, and be getting tips and pointers from the coaches while it is going on, just like QBs used too. At this point, I see no real benefit to him being out there. He's a game away from becoming (as someone alluded too) another David Carr.

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Get rid of the football quick like a real QB and you won't have the problems he has. Run around like a fool and things won't end well. Never has, never will.

Roethlisberger did this and won 2 Super Bowls, while playing in a 3rd.

You may want to check your definition of the word "never."

There is a difference between scrambling (Ben) and just running around like this guy. Putting Ben and this guy in the same sentence is laughable.

Your QB analysis is laughable, and clearly doesn't extend past repeating "running around" over and over trying to make some sort of point.

We get it, you treat different types of QBs very differently.

Well your opinion is worth ZERO since you are wrong on everything.

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Get rid of the football quick like a real QB and you won't have the problems he has. Run around like a fool and things won't end well. Never has, never will.

Roethlisberger did this and won 2 Super Bowls, while playing in a 3rd.

You may want to check your definition of the word "never."

There is a difference between scrambling (Ben) and just running around like this guy. Putting Ben and this guy in the same sentence is laughable.

Your QB analysis is laughable, and clearly doesn't extend past repeating "running around" over and over trying to make some sort of point.

We get it, you treat different types of QBs very differently.

Well your opinion is worth ZERO since you are wrong on everything.

He's not wrong on this one.

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This is what I posted in the skins thread before seeing this one:

I know people believe Griffin needs to be in there getting snaps and getting experience. But I disagree. It wasn't that long ago when QBs were drafted and carried clipboards for a few YEARS before they were given a starting gig. In today's high priced league, teams can't afford to sit these guys like that. But I think at this point, it would benefit Griffin way more to get to sit back and watch Cousins play than to go out there and get killed week in and week out. He could sit back, watch the game while not getting crushed, and be getting tips and pointers from the coaches while it is going on, just like QBs used too. At this point, I see no real benefit to him being out there. He's a game away from becoming (as someone alluded too) another David Carr.

A couple of things:

Most college QBs (especially if they are drafted high) are more prepared for the NFL today, because of the nature of the big college programs and the offenses that many college teams runs (Washington's offense incorporates many plays from RGIII's Baylor days, IIRC).

Back in the "good old days," if you let a QB sit for 2-3 years to learn the offense, you could still control his contract, because FA was not nearly as prevalent. Today, if you are talking about a 1st round pick, you control his rights for 5 years, MAX. If you sit him for 3 years, and he resents that (or you bench/sit him, making him resentful), by the team he is "ready" to be a NFL QB, he can choose to leave your franchise. NFL teams need to see if these young QBs are going to be the answer for them early, so they can decide about extending their contracts before they hit FA. It's really "sink or swim" anymore. QBs have to adapt quickly, or the franchise has to prepare to move on. The only way for the franchise to do so is to see him play, in live games.

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So, I'm called a troll for starting this thread, yet it is all over the 4 letter network and there are plenty in this thread who share my opinion.

You're not a troll for starting the thread, you're a troll because you're a well known troll.

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I don't think this is a bad thread, the bad part is reading it and seeing people act like their opinion is better/smarter or somehow more accurate then anyone elses.

Ben did run around a lot and still does on occasion and he still takes some shots, however, his nickname is BIG Ben, he is a big man at 6'5 240+ he can take a shot and get back up. RG3 is about 6' and is probably barely 200 pounds and yes, I think that makes a huge difference. The other big difference in the running around they do is Ben was running mostly side to side and looking downfield (He also does have a devestating pump fake), watching RG3 he is almost always back pedaling and trying to throw down field and that just doesn't work in the NFL. Just like the pick against Philly, absolutely horrible play and he has thrown multiple picks in the exact same manner.

RG3 reminds me of my son playing Madden when he was about 8-10 years old, he would take a fast guy and use him at QB and then run around for as long as possible and he would either get sacked for a huge loss or make some amazing play. He hated to take the small plays, the short gains that eventually lead to a score, had to have it all at once. Problem is, that worked for him in Madden, but right now it is not working for RG3.

Personally I agree with JohnnyU, I think Cousin's has some skill and will someday be a starting QB, but no way the skins can let him walk or trade him as long as they got RG3 starting, he's too much of an injury risk. He claims he was going to play smarter this year, not sure when that is going to happen, but it certainly has not happened yet. I do not think he is a bad QB at all, I think he needs to play smarter and protect himself better. I also think the play calling could be improved, but again just mho, I actually don't claim to know more than NFL coaches, at least not on here. :)

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What we are seeing is a second year rookie QB who spent the entire off season rehabbing and unable to work on his craft. While the rest of the league worked on how to stop him. Defensive coordinators have a lot of pride and stopping RGIII and the read option was on everyone's short list. It proves that a QB needs the off-season to prepare and you can't do that while rehabbing and even more so for a second year rookie. Especially now with the new rules for practice the teams have to follow. With RGIII we are seeing the result of not enough on field preparation, a QB that has lost his confidence and is not the leader that many thought he was. Hopefully he will make it through the rest of the season without getting really injured or getting his ego or confidence shattered in the process. In watching him defect questions, I think he is far more fragile and immature than most think. We may just be witnessing the second coming of Vince Young! He was off my draft board by the way for these very reasons. He's no AP and I haven't seen any QB come off an ACL and play well the next year especially one that runs the read option as a key to his success. He will also be off my draft board next year and until I see how his head turns out will not get a look in any round. Said all that to say this. I really dont think RG could hanldle getting benched so unless he gets hurt he's the starter.

Personally, I think the players association screwed themselves by negotiating softer practice routines. It is painfully obvious that the players aren't in the shape they need to be in to take the punishment of a full season of hitting. Practicing in pads and in weather prepares your body and toughens it up. These players are softer and it's noticeable.

Reminds me of a quote from Apocalypse Now. "Every day I squat here, Charlie is getting stronger while he squats in the bush". Players fought for easier practice schedules and now they are paying for it in injuries to hamstrings, quads, ankles, necks, shoulders and heads. I do believe this is the worst season for injuries that I have seen. Repeat injuries too. That short list that every team has should they need to sign someone to plug a whole, is empty. Especially if you need D linemen. I just think they went too far in negotiating a softer practice schedule and is costing us quality football on the field.

Edited by cowboyz1

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I don't think this is a bad thread, the bad part is reading it and seeing people act like their opinion is better/smarter or somehow more accurate then anyone elses.

Ben did run around a lot and still does on occasion and he still takes some shots, however, his nickname is BIG Ben, he is a big man at 6'5 240+ he can take a shot and get back up. RG3 is about 6' and is probably barely 200 pounds and yes, I think that makes a huge difference. The other big difference in the running around they do is Ben was running mostly side to side and looking downfield (He also does have a devestating pump fake), watching RG3 he is almost always back pedaling and trying to throw down field and that just doesn't work in the NFL. Just like the pick against Philly, absolutely horrible play and he has thrown multiple picks in the exact same manner.

RG3 reminds me of my son playing Madden when he was about 8-10 years old, he would take a fast guy and use him at QB and then run around for as long as possible and he would either get sacked for a huge loss or make some amazing play. He hated to take the small plays, the short gains that eventually lead to a score, had to have it all at once. Problem is, that worked for him in Madden, but right now it is not working for RG3.

Personally I agree with JohnnyU, I think Cousin's has some skill and will someday be a starting QB, but no way the skins can let him walk or trade him as long as they got RG3 starting, he's too much of an injury risk. He claims he was going to play smarter this year, not sure when that is going to happen, but it certainly has not happened yet. I do not think he is a bad QB at all, I think he needs to play smarter and protect himself better. I also think the play calling could be improved, but again just mho, I actually don't claim to know more than NFL coaches, at least not on here. :)

RG3 is the same height/weight as Adrian Peterson... At 6'2 220 running a sub 4.4 he probably would have been a top RB prospect. No he isn't 6'5 240 but I would suspect him to be fine for durability based on size.

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What we are seeing is a second year rookie QB who spent the entire off season rehabbing and unable to work on his craft. While the rest of the league worked on how to stop him. Defensive coordinators have a lot of pride and stopping RGIII and the read option was on everyone's short list. It proves that a QB needs the off-season to prepare and you can't do that while rehabbing and even more so for a second year rookie. Especially now with the new rules for practice the teams have to follow. With RGIII we are seeing the result of not enough on field preparation, a QB that has lost his confidence and is not the leader that many thought he was. Hopefully he will make it through the rest of the season without getting really injured or getting his ego or confidence shattered in the process. In watching him defect questions, I think he is far more fragile and immature than most think. We may just be witnessing the second coming of Vince Young! He was off my draft board by the way for these very reasons. He's no AP and I haven't seen any QB come off an ACL and play well the next year especially one that runs the read option as a key to his success. He will also be off my draft board next year and until I see how his head turns out will not get a look in any round. Said all that to say this. I really dont think RG could hanldle getting benched so unless he gets hurt he's the starter.

Personally, I think the players association screwed themselves by negotiating softer practice routines. It is painfully obvious that the players aren't in the shape they need to be in to take the punishment of a full season of hitting. Practicing in pads and in weather prepares your body and toughens it up. These players are softer and it's noticeable.

Reminds me of a quote from Apocalypse Now. "Every day I squat here, Charlie is getting stronger while he squats in the bush". Players fought for easier practice schedules and now they are paying for it in injuries to hamstrings, quads, ankles, necks, shoulders and heads. I do believe this is the worst season for injuries that I have seen. Repeat injuries too. That short list that every team has should they need to sign someone to plug a whole, is empty. Especially if you need D linemen. I just think they went too far in negotiating a softer practice schedule and is costing us quality football on the field.

Interesting point. I always here that a QB second year is all about adjustments. I wouldn't soley blame RG3 for this. Eagles defenders and RG3 both said the defenders knew plays ahead of time. Coaches deserve some of the attention here as well, maybe even more since it's their job to be ready for adjustments. I respect Shananhan as a coach and love RG3 as a prospect, but they are starting to seem like a bad fit.

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I don't think this is a bad thread, the bad part is reading it and seeing people act like their opinion is better/smarter or somehow more accurate then anyone elses.

Ben did run around a lot and still does on occasion and he still takes some shots, however, his nickname is BIG Ben, he is a big man at 6'5 240+ he can take a shot and get back up. RG3 is about 6' and is probably barely 200 pounds and yes, I think that makes a huge difference. The other big difference in the running around they do is Ben was running mostly side to side and looking downfield (He also does have a devestating pump fake), watching RG3 he is almost always back pedaling and trying to throw down field and that just doesn't work in the NFL. Just like the pick against Philly, absolutely horrible play and he has thrown multiple picks in the exact same manner.

RG3 reminds me of my son playing Madden when he was about 8-10 years old, he would take a fast guy and use him at QB and then run around for as long as possible and he would either get sacked for a huge loss or make some amazing play. He hated to take the small plays, the short gains that eventually lead to a score, had to have it all at once. Problem is, that worked for him in Madden, but right now it is not working for RG3.

Personally I agree with JohnnyU, I think Cousin's has some skill and will someday be a starting QB, but no way the skins can let him walk or trade him as long as they got RG3 starting, he's too much of an injury risk. He claims he was going to play smarter this year, not sure when that is going to happen, but it certainly has not happened yet. I do not think he is a bad QB at all, I think he needs to play smarter and protect himself better. I also think the play calling could be improved, but again just mho, I actually don't claim to know more than NFL coaches, at least not on here. :)

RG3 is the same height/weight as Adrian Peterson... At 6'2 220 running a sub 4.4 he probably would have been a top RB prospect. No he isn't 6'5 240 but I would suspect him to be fine for durability based on size.

This is 100% true as far as we know, but he still looks like a wet noodle every time he gets touched. Arms and legs go every direction!

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I don't think this is a bad thread, the bad part is reading it and seeing people act like their opinion is better/smarter or somehow more accurate then anyone elses.

Ben did run around a lot and still does on occasion and he still takes some shots, however, his nickname is BIG Ben, he is a big man at 6'5 240+ he can take a shot and get back up. RG3 is about 6' and is probably barely 200 pounds and yes, I think that makes a huge difference. The other big difference in the running around they do is Ben was running mostly side to side and looking downfield (He also does have a devestating pump fake), watching RG3 he is almost always back pedaling and trying to throw down field and that just doesn't work in the NFL. Just like the pick against Philly, absolutely horrible play and he has thrown multiple picks in the exact same manner.

RG3 reminds me of my son playing Madden when he was about 8-10 years old, he would take a fast guy and use him at QB and then run around for as long as possible and he would either get sacked for a huge loss or make some amazing play. He hated to take the small plays, the short gains that eventually lead to a score, had to have it all at once. Problem is, that worked for him in Madden, but right now it is not working for RG3.

Personally I agree with JohnnyU, I think Cousin's has some skill and will someday be a starting QB, but no way the skins can let him walk or trade him as long as they got RG3 starting, he's too much of an injury risk. He claims he was going to play smarter this year, not sure when that is going to happen, but it certainly has not happened yet. I do not think he is a bad QB at all, I think he needs to play smarter and protect himself better. I also think the play calling could be improved, but again just mho, I actually don't claim to know more than NFL coaches, at least not on here. :)

RG3 is the same height/weight as Adrian Peterson... At 6'2 220 running a sub 4.4 he probably would have been a top RB prospect. No he isn't 6'5 240 but I would suspect him to be fine for durability based on size.

I am not going to argue his size and weight as I have not measured him myself, however Gruden talking during the game said he was about 200 pounds or slightly less as he spoke to him during the week. Now maybe you trust Rotoworld more and that is your option, I will believe the guy who spoke to him directly in the past week. I will also say comparing Petersons body to RG3 is not in the ballpark, they may be similar height but Peterson is a rock. He doesn't flail around like a rag doll when hit. Again, just my opinions, I am sure you are probably right.

Edited by The Claymaker

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What we are seeing is a second year rookie QB who spent the entire off season rehabbing and unable to work on his craft. While the rest of the league worked on how to stop him. Defensive coordinators have a lot of pride and stopping RGIII and the read option was on everyone's short list. It proves that a QB needs the off-season to prepare and you can't do that while rehabbing and even more so for a second year rookie. Especially now with the new rules for practice the teams have to follow. With RGIII we are seeing the result of not enough on field preparation, a QB that has lost his confidence and is not the leader that many thought he was. Hopefully he will make it through the rest of the season without getting really injured or getting his ego or confidence shattered in the process. In watching him defect questions, I think he is far more fragile and immature than most think. We may just be witnessing the second coming of Vince Young! He was off my draft board by the way for these very reasons. He's no AP and I haven't seen any QB come off an ACL and play well the next year especially one that runs the read option as a key to his success. He will also be off my draft board next year and until I see how his head turns out will not get a look in any round. Said all that to say this. I really dont think RG could hanldle getting benched so unless he gets hurt he's the starter.

Personally, I think the players association screwed themselves by negotiating softer practice routines. It is painfully obvious that the players aren't in the shape they need to be in to take the punishment of a full season of hitting. Practicing in pads and in weather prepares your body and toughens it up. These players are softer and it's noticeable.

Reminds me of a quote from Apocalypse Now. "Every day I squat here, Charlie is getting stronger while he squats in the bush". Players fought for easier practice schedules and now they are paying for it in injuries to hamstrings, quads, ankles, necks, shoulders and heads. I do believe this is the worst season for injuries that I have seen. Repeat injuries too. That short list that every team has should they need to sign someone to plug a whole, is empty. Especially if you need D linemen. I just think they went too far in negotiating a softer practice schedule and is costing us quality football on the field.

The lack of offseason for him is a bigger issue than most are making it out to be. Is it 100% right now? Maybe, maybe not. I don't think you'll find many players at 100% this late in the season. But when you spend all offseason working on getting your knee back together, you don't have much time to work on drop backs, timing with your WRs, watching film, reading defenses, etc.

I believe RG3 is a great competitor and will work hard in the offseason to prove this season was a fluke. He'll be able to work with his WRs, work on his passing game, and spend plenty of time watching film. Dude just had too much going on last offseason. I'm not even close to throwing in the towel yet. Weren't we saying all these things about Cam last year?

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I really want to see Cousins start as well but probably for the opposite reason than most in this thread. I want to see him get exposed as an average backup QB so that people will stop talking about him like he is a franchise QB. I think he is the most overrated player in the league and does nothing better than RG3 does.

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I don't think this is a bad thread, the bad part is reading it and seeing people act like their opinion is better/smarter or somehow more accurate then anyone elses.

Ben did run around a lot and still does on occasion and he still takes some shots, however, his nickname is BIG Ben, he is a big man at 6'5 240+ he can take a shot and get back up. RG3 is about 6' and is probably barely 200 pounds and yes, I think that makes a huge difference. The other big difference in the running around they do is Ben was running mostly side to side and looking downfield (He also does have a devestating pump fake), watching RG3 he is almost always back pedaling and trying to throw down field and that just doesn't work in the NFL. Just like the pick against Philly, absolutely horrible play and he has thrown multiple picks in the exact same manner.

RG3 reminds me of my son playing Madden when he was about 8-10 years old, he would take a fast guy and use him at QB and then run around for as long as possible and he would either get sacked for a huge loss or make some amazing play. He hated to take the small plays, the short gains that eventually lead to a score, had to have it all at once. Problem is, that worked for him in Madden, but right now it is not working for RG3.

Personally I agree with JohnnyU, I think Cousin's has some skill and will someday be a starting QB, but no way the skins can let him walk or trade him as long as they got RG3 starting, he's too much of an injury risk. He claims he was going to play smarter this year, not sure when that is going to happen, but it certainly has not happened yet. I do not think he is a bad QB at all, I think he needs to play smarter and protect himself better. I also think the play calling could be improved, but again just mho, I actually don't claim to know more than NFL coaches, at least not on here. :)

RG3 is the same height/weight as Adrian Peterson... At 6'2 220 running a sub 4.4 he probably would have been a top RB prospect. No he isn't 6'5 240 but I would suspect him to be fine for durability based on size.

I am not going to argue his size and weight as I have not measured him myself, however Gruden talking during the game said he was about 200 pounds or slightly less as he spoke to him during the week. Now maybe you trust Rotoworld more and that is your option, I will believe the guy who spoke to him directly in the past week. I will also say comparing Petersons body to RG3 is not in the ballpark, they may be similar height but Peterson is a rock. He doesn't flail around like a rag doll when hit. Again, just my opinions, I am sure you are probably right.

It's even hard for me to believe. I try not to be subjective, so I just go with the piblic information we all have available. As far as flailing around I'd just assume it's because the RB position is more violent.

RG3

http://www.thefootballeducator.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/TGC-Robert-Griffin-III-at-the-NFL-Combine-Joe-Robbins-Getty-Images.jpg

AP

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0702/gallery.nfl.combine/images/070225_366.jpg

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I really want to see Cousins start as well but probably for the opposite reason than most in this thread. I want to see him get exposed as an average backup QB so that people will stop talking about him like he is a franchise QB. I think he is the most overrated player in the league and does nothing better than RG3 does.

Don't get me wrong, I like Kirk. But Skins fan and some people in general are letting 1 game against the Browns and 1 series against the Ravens mean so much. If anything, haven't we learned that 2nd string QBs are 2nd string for a reason? Look at Kolb and Flynn has prime examples.

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I really want to see Cousins start as well but probably for the opposite reason than most in this thread. I want to see him get exposed as an average backup QB so that people will stop talking about him like he is a franchise QB. I think he is the most overrated player in the league and does nothing better than RG3 does.

Don't get me wrong, I like Kirk. But Skins fan and some people in general are letting 1 game against the Browns and 1 series against the Ravens mean so much. If anything, haven't we learned that 2nd string QBs are 2nd string for a reason? Look at Kolb and Flynn has prime examples.

Kolb was 4-0 last season..

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I really want to see Cousins start as well but probably for the opposite reason than most in this thread. I want to see him get exposed as an average backup QB so that people will stop talking about him like he is a franchise QB. I think he is the most overrated player in the league and does nothing better than RG3 does.

Don't get me wrong, I like Kirk. But Skins fan and some people in general are letting 1 game against the Browns and 1 series against the Ravens mean so much. If anything, haven't we learned that 2nd string QBs are 2nd string for a reason? Look at Kolb and Flynn has prime examples.

Kolb was 4-0 last season..

And where is he now?

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I don't think this is a bad thread, the bad part is reading it and seeing people act like their opinion is better/smarter or somehow more accurate then anyone elses.

Ben did run around a lot and still does on occasion and he still takes some shots, however, his nickname is BIG Ben, he is a big man at 6'5 240+ he can take a shot and get back up. RG3 is about 6' and is probably barely 200 pounds and yes, I think that makes a huge difference. The other big difference in the running around they do is Ben was running mostly side to side and looking downfield (He also does have a devestating pump fake), watching RG3 he is almost always back pedaling and trying to throw down field and that just doesn't work in the NFL. Just like the pick against Philly, absolutely horrible play and he has thrown multiple picks in the exact same manner.

RG3 reminds me of my son playing Madden when he was about 8-10 years old, he would take a fast guy and use him at QB and then run around for as long as possible and he would either get sacked for a huge loss or make some amazing play. He hated to take the small plays, the short gains that eventually lead to a score, had to have it all at once. Problem is, that worked for him in Madden, but right now it is not working for RG3.

Personally I agree with JohnnyU, I think Cousin's has some skill and will someday be a starting QB, but no way the skins can let him walk or trade him as long as they got RG3 starting, he's too much of an injury risk. He claims he was going to play smarter this year, not sure when that is going to happen, but it certainly has not happened yet. I do not think he is a bad QB at all, I think he needs to play smarter and protect himself better. I also think the play calling could be improved, but again just mho, I actually don't claim to know more than NFL coaches, at least not on here. :)

RG3 is the same height/weight as Adrian Peterson... At 6'2 220 running a sub 4.4 he probably would have been a top RB prospect. No he isn't 6'5 240 but I would suspect him to be fine for durability based on size.

Yes, because they run with the exact same styles.

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I don't think this is a bad thread, the bad part is reading it and seeing people act like their opinion is better/smarter or somehow more accurate then anyone elses.

Ben did run around a lot and still does on occasion and he still takes some shots, however, his nickname is BIG Ben, he is a big man at 6'5 240+ he can take a shot and get back up. RG3 is about 6' and is probably barely 200 pounds and yes, I think that makes a huge difference. The other big difference in the running around they do is Ben was running mostly side to side and looking downfield (He also does have a devestating pump fake), watching RG3 he is almost always back pedaling and trying to throw down field and that just doesn't work in the NFL. Just like the pick against Philly, absolutely horrible play and he has thrown multiple picks in the exact same manner.

RG3 reminds me of my son playing Madden when he was about 8-10 years old, he would take a fast guy and use him at QB and then run around for as long as possible and he would either get sacked for a huge loss or make some amazing play. He hated to take the small plays, the short gains that eventually lead to a score, had to have it all at once. Problem is, that worked for him in Madden, but right now it is not working for RG3.

Personally I agree with JohnnyU, I think Cousin's has some skill and will someday be a starting QB, but no way the skins can let him walk or trade him as long as they got RG3 starting, he's too much of an injury risk. He claims he was going to play smarter this year, not sure when that is going to happen, but it certainly has not happened yet. I do not think he is a bad QB at all, I think he needs to play smarter and protect himself better. I also think the play calling could be improved, but again just mho, I actually don't claim to know more than NFL coaches, at least not on here. :)

RG3 is the same height/weight as Adrian Peterson... At 6'2 220 running a sub 4.4 he probably would have been a top RB prospect. No he isn't 6'5 240 but I would suspect him to be fine for durability based on size.

Darren McFadden has about the same measurables as AP too. How's that working out?

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What we are seeing is a second year rookie QB who spent the entire off season rehabbing and unable to work on his craft. While the rest of the league worked on how to stop him. Defensive coordinators have a lot of pride and stopping RGIII and the read option was on everyone's short list. It proves that a QB needs the off-season to prepare and you can't do that while rehabbing and even more so for a second year rookie. Especially now with the new rules for practice the teams have to follow. With RGIII we are seeing the result of not enough on field preparation, a QB that has lost his confidence and is not the leader that many thought he was. Hopefully he will make it through the rest of the season without getting really injured or getting his ego or confidence shattered in the process. In watching him defect questions, I think he is far more fragile and immature than most think. We may just be witnessing the second coming of Vince Young! He was off my draft board by the way for these very reasons. He's no AP and I haven't seen any QB come off an ACL and play well the next year especially one that runs the read option as a key to his success. He will also be off my draft board next year and until I see how his head turns out will not get a look in any round. Said all that to say this. I really dont think RG could hanldle getting benched so unless he gets hurt he's the starter.

Personally, I think the players association screwed themselves by negotiating softer practice routines. It is painfully obvious that the players aren't in the shape they need to be in to take the punishment of a full season of hitting. Practicing in pads and in weather prepares your body and toughens it up. These players are softer and it's noticeable.

Reminds me of a quote from Apocalypse Now. "Every day I squat here, Charlie is getting stronger while he squats in the bush". Players fought for easier practice schedules and now they are paying for it in injuries to hamstrings, quads, ankles, necks, shoulders and heads. I do believe this is the worst season for injuries that I have seen. Repeat injuries too. That short list that every team has should they need to sign someone to plug a whole, is empty. Especially if you need D linemen. I just think they went too far in negotiating a softer practice schedule and is costing us quality football on the field.

The lack of offseason for him is a bigger issue than most are making it out to be. Is it 100% right now? Maybe, maybe not. I don't think you'll find many players at 100% this late in the season. But when you spend all offseason working on getting your knee back together, you don't have much time to work on drop backs, timing with your WRs, watching film, reading defenses, etc.

I believe RG3 is a great competitor and will work hard in the offseason to prove this season was a fluke. He'll be able to work with his WRs, work on his passing game, and spend plenty of time watching film. Dude just had too much going on last offseason. I'm not even close to throwing in the towel yet. Weren't we saying all these things about Cam last year?

What do you think he spends all his time doing during the week during the season?

Training camp basically makes it a 20 week season instead of 16. We expect the guys who play in the preseason to have their regular season game worked into shape by the second or third week of the season. Even if you give RG3 a 7 week mulligan, he should be 4 games into his stride by now.

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I really want to see Cousins start as well but probably for the opposite reason than most in this thread. I want to see him get exposed as an average backup QB so that people will stop talking about him like he is a franchise QB. I think he is the most overrated player in the league and does nothing better than RG3 does.

Don't get me wrong, I like Kirk. But Skins fan and some people in general are letting 1 game against the Browns and 1 series against the Ravens mean so much. If anything, haven't we learned that 2nd string QBs are 2nd string for a reason? Look at Kolb and Flynn has prime examples.

Cousins was drafted in the same draft as RG3, so automatically saying "2nd string QBs are 2nd string for a reason" is a fallacy with regards to Cousins and RG3. Of course the guy drafted at the top of the draft is going to start over a guy drafted in the 4th round and Washington thought enough of Cousins to draft him in the 4th round, which isn't a throw away round. The 4th round is very important to teams. I don't see any reason why Cousins couldn't be a stud in the NFL. He was a highly regarded prospect coming into the draft and some experts thought he may go in the 1st round.

Edited by JohnnyU

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What we are seeing is a second year rookie QB who spent the entire off season rehabbing and unable to work on his craft. While the rest of the league worked on how to stop him. Defensive coordinators have a lot of pride and stopping RGIII and the read option was on everyone's short list. It proves that a QB needs the off-season to prepare and you can't do that while rehabbing and even more so for a second year rookie. Especially now with the new rules for practice the teams have to follow. With RGIII we are seeing the result of not enough on field preparation, a QB that has lost his confidence and is not the leader that many thought he was. Hopefully he will make it through the rest of the season without getting really injured or getting his ego or confidence shattered in the process. In watching him defect questions, I think he is far more fragile and immature than most think. We may just be witnessing the second coming of Vince Young! He was off my draft board by the way for these very reasons. He's no AP and I haven't seen any QB come off an ACL and play well the next year especially one that runs the read option as a key to his success. He will also be off my draft board next year and until I see how his head turns out will not get a look in any round. Said all that to say this. I really dont think RG could hanldle getting benched so unless he gets hurt he's the starter.

Personally, I think the players association screwed themselves by negotiating softer practice routines. It is painfully obvious that the players aren't in the shape they need to be in to take the punishment of a full season of hitting. Practicing in pads and in weather prepares your body and toughens it up. These players are softer and it's noticeable.

Reminds me of a quote from Apocalypse Now. "Every day I squat here, Charlie is getting stronger while he squats in the bush". Players fought for easier practice schedules and now they are paying for it in injuries to hamstrings, quads, ankles, necks, shoulders and heads. I do believe this is the worst season for injuries that I have seen. Repeat injuries too. That short list that every team has should they need to sign someone to plug a whole, is empty. Especially if you need D linemen. I just think they went too far in negotiating a softer practice schedule and is costing us quality football on the field.

The lack of offseason for him is a bigger issue than most are making it out to be. Is it 100% right now? Maybe, maybe not. I don't think you'll find many players at 100% this late in the season. But when you spend all offseason working on getting your knee back together, you don't have much time to work on drop backs, timing with your WRs, watching film, reading defenses, etc.

I believe RG3 is a great competitor and will work hard in the offseason to prove this season was a fluke. He'll be able to work with his WRs, work on his passing game, and spend plenty of time watching film. Dude just had too much going on last offseason. I'm not even close to throwing in the towel yet. Weren't we saying all these things about Cam last year?

What do you think he spends all his time doing during the week during the season?

Training camp basically makes it a 20 week season instead of 16. We expect the guys who play in the preseason to have their regular season game worked into shape by the second or third week of the season. Even if you give RG3 a 7 week mulligan, he should be 4 games into his stride by now.

I don't think he is saying RGIII isn't in game shape, but that the things one can work on in the off-season (mechanics, footwork, reading defenses, understanding offensive concepts, getting more familiar with receivers, etc) can't be done in the regular season. You don't have enough time to focus on those things, as the week-to-week game-planning and film study for the weekly opponent is too time consuming.

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What we are seeing is a second year rookie QB who spent the entire off season rehabbing and unable to work on his craft. While the rest of the league worked on how to stop him. Defensive coordinators have a lot of pride and stopping RGIII and the read option was on everyone's short list. It proves that a QB needs the off-season to prepare and you can't do that while rehabbing and even more so for a second year rookie. Especially now with the new rules for practice the teams have to follow. With RGIII we are seeing the result of not enough on field preparation, a QB that has lost his confidence and is not the leader that many thought he was. Hopefully he will make it through the rest of the season without getting really injured or getting his ego or confidence shattered in the process. In watching him defect questions, I think he is far more fragile and immature than most think. We may just be witnessing the second coming of Vince Young! He was off my draft board by the way for these very reasons. He's no AP and I haven't seen any QB come off an ACL and play well the next year especially one that runs the read option as a key to his success. He will also be off my draft board next year and until I see how his head turns out will not get a look in any round. Said all that to say this. I really dont think RG could hanldle getting benched so unless he gets hurt he's the starter.

Personally, I think the players association screwed themselves by negotiating softer practice routines. It is painfully obvious that the players aren't in the shape they need to be in to take the punishment of a full season of hitting. Practicing in pads and in weather prepares your body and toughens it up. These players are softer and it's noticeable.

Reminds me of a quote from Apocalypse Now. "Every day I squat here, Charlie is getting stronger while he squats in the bush". Players fought for easier practice schedules and now they are paying for it in injuries to hamstrings, quads, ankles, necks, shoulders and heads. I do believe this is the worst season for injuries that I have seen. Repeat injuries too. That short list that every team has should they need to sign someone to plug a whole, is empty. Especially if you need D linemen. I just think they went too far in negotiating a softer practice schedule and is costing us quality football on the field.

The lack of offseason for him is a bigger issue than most are making it out to be. Is it 100% right now? Maybe, maybe not. I don't think you'll find many players at 100% this late in the season. But when you spend all offseason working on getting your knee back together, you don't have much time to work on drop backs, timing with your WRs, watching film, reading defenses, etc.

I believe RG3 is a great competitor and will work hard in the offseason to prove this season was a fluke. He'll be able to work with his WRs, work on his passing game, and spend plenty of time watching film. Dude just had too much going on last offseason. I'm not even close to throwing in the towel yet. Weren't we saying all these things about Cam last year?

What do you think he spends all his time doing during the week during the season?

Training camp basically makes it a 20 week season instead of 16. We expect the guys who play in the preseason to have their regular season game worked into shape by the second or third week of the season. Even if you give RG3 a 7 week mulligan, he should be 4 games into his stride by now.

This is correct. Plus, I'm guessing many have never been to witness a training camp. The amount of time the QB goes full speed (not game speed) is about 10%. There is far too much emphasis being put on TC. Even with that, RG3 has had ample time to offset missing TC.

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I really want to see Cousins start as well but probably for the opposite reason than most in this thread. I want to see him get exposed as an average backup QB so that people will stop talking about him like he is a franchise QB. I think he is the most overrated player in the league and does nothing better than RG3 does.

Don't get me wrong, I like Kirk. But Skins fan and some people in general are letting 1 game against the Browns and 1 series against the Ravens mean so much. If anything, haven't we learned that 2nd string QBs are 2nd string for a reason? Look at Kolb and Flynn has prime examples.

Cousins was drafted in the same draft as RG3, so automatically saying "2nd string QBs are 2nd string for a reason" is a fallacy with regards to Cousins and RG3. Of course the guy drafted at the top of the draft is going to start over a guy drafted in the 4th round and Washington thought enough of Cousins to draft him in the 4th round, which isn't a throw away round. The 4th round is very important to teams. I don't see any reason why Cousins couldn't be a stud in the NFL. He was a highly regarded prospect coming into the draft and some experts thought he may go in the 1st round.

Plus he was drafted higher than Brady. Let's not discount a highly regarded 4th rd. pick.

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What we are seeing is a second year rookie QB who spent the entire off season rehabbing and unable to work on his craft. While the rest of the league worked on how to stop him. Defensive coordinators have a lot of pride and stopping RGIII and the read option was on everyone's short list. It proves that a QB needs the off-season to prepare and you can't do that while rehabbing and even more so for a second year rookie. Especially now with the new rules for practice the teams have to follow. With RGIII we are seeing the result of not enough on field preparation, a QB that has lost his confidence and is not the leader that many thought he was. Hopefully he will make it through the rest of the season without getting really injured or getting his ego or confidence shattered in the process. In watching him defect questions, I think he is far more fragile and immature than most think. We may just be witnessing the second coming of Vince Young! He was off my draft board by the way for these very reasons. He's no AP and I haven't seen any QB come off an ACL and play well the next year especially one that runs the read option as a key to his success. He will also be off my draft board next year and until I see how his head turns out will not get a look in any round. Said all that to say this. I really dont think RG could hanldle getting benched so unless he gets hurt he's the starter.

Personally, I think the players association screwed themselves by negotiating softer practice routines. It is painfully obvious that the players aren't in the shape they need to be in to take the punishment of a full season of hitting. Practicing in pads and in weather prepares your body and toughens it up. These players are softer and it's noticeable.

Reminds me of a quote from Apocalypse Now. "Every day I squat here, Charlie is getting stronger while he squats in the bush". Players fought for easier practice schedules and now they are paying for it in injuries to hamstrings, quads, ankles, necks, shoulders and heads. I do believe this is the worst season for injuries that I have seen. Repeat injuries too. That short list that every team has should they need to sign someone to plug a whole, is empty. Especially if you need D linemen. I just think they went too far in negotiating a softer practice schedule and is costing us quality football on the field.

The lack of offseason for him is a bigger issue than most are making it out to be. Is it 100% right now? Maybe, maybe not. I don't think you'll find many players at 100% this late in the season. But when you spend all offseason working on getting your knee back together, you don't have much time to work on drop backs, timing with your WRs, watching film, reading defenses, etc.

I believe RG3 is a great competitor and will work hard in the offseason to prove this season was a fluke. He'll be able to work with his WRs, work on his passing game, and spend plenty of time watching film. Dude just had too much going on last offseason. I'm not even close to throwing in the towel yet. Weren't we saying all these things about Cam last year?

What do you think he spends all his time doing during the week during the season?

Training camp basically makes it a 20 week season instead of 16. We expect the guys who play in the preseason to have their regular season game worked into shape by the second or third week of the season. Even if you give RG3 a 7 week mulligan, he should be 4 games into his stride by now.

This is correct. Plus, I'm guessing many have never been to witness a training camp. The amount of time the QB goes full speed (not game speed) is about 10%. There is far too much emphasis being put on TC. Even with that, RG3 has had ample time to offset missing TC.

I've been to Redskins training camp specifically. Sure he's had time to get back into the swing of things. But when teams are working all offseason to stop you and you're working all season rehabbing a knee injury, things aren't going to go so well. Give him a full offseason and he'll be much improved.

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I really want to see Cousins start as well but probably for the opposite reason than most in this thread. I want to see him get exposed as an average backup QB so that people will stop talking about him like he is a franchise QB. I think he is the most overrated player in the league and does nothing better than RG3 does.

Don't get me wrong, I like Kirk. But Skins fan and some people in general are letting 1 game against the Browns and 1 series against the Ravens mean so much. If anything, haven't we learned that 2nd string QBs are 2nd string for a reason? Look at Kolb and Flynn has prime examples.

You may be spot on with this comparison, but I do think the difference in those three QB's is arm strength, Kolb and Flynn have very little and Cousins appears to have a decent arm with some mobility. I personally don't think RG3 sucks, but he clearly needs more work and much more work on his decision making.

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What we are seeing is a second year rookie QB who spent the entire off season rehabbing and unable to work on his craft. While the rest of the league worked on how to stop him. Defensive coordinators have a lot of pride and stopping RGIII and the read option was on everyone's short list. It proves that a QB needs the off-season to prepare and you can't do that while rehabbing and even more so for a second year rookie. Especially now with the new rules for practice the teams have to follow. With RGIII we are seeing the result of not enough on field preparation, a QB that has lost his confidence and is not the leader that many thought he was. Hopefully he will make it through the rest of the season without getting really injured or getting his ego or confidence shattered in the process. In watching him defect questions, I think he is far more fragile and immature than most think. We may just be witnessing the second coming of Vince Young! He was off my draft board by the way for these very reasons. He's no AP and I haven't seen any QB come off an ACL and play well the next year especially one that runs the read option as a key to his success. He will also be off my draft board next year and until I see how his head turns out will not get a look in any round. Said all that to say this. I really dont think RG could hanldle getting benched so unless he gets hurt he's the starter.

Personally, I think the players association screwed themselves by negotiating softer practice routines. It is painfully obvious that the players aren't in the shape they need to be in to take the punishment of a full season of hitting. Practicing in pads and in weather prepares your body and toughens it up. These players are softer and it's noticeable.

Reminds me of a quote from Apocalypse Now. "Every day I squat here, Charlie is getting stronger while he squats in the bush". Players fought for easier practice schedules and now they are paying for it in injuries to hamstrings, quads, ankles, necks, shoulders and heads. I do believe this is the worst season for injuries that I have seen. Repeat injuries too. That short list that every team has should they need to sign someone to plug a whole, is empty. Especially if you need D linemen. I just think they went too far in negotiating a softer practice schedule and is costing us quality football on the field.

The lack of offseason for him is a bigger issue than most are making it out to be. Is it 100% right now? Maybe, maybe not. I don't think you'll find many players at 100% this late in the season. But when you spend all offseason working on getting your knee back together, you don't have much time to work on drop backs, timing with your WRs, watching film, reading defenses, etc.

I believe RG3 is a great competitor and will work hard in the offseason to prove this season was a fluke. He'll be able to work with his WRs, work on his passing game, and spend plenty of time watching film. Dude just had too much going on last offseason. I'm not even close to throwing in the towel yet. Weren't we saying all these things about Cam last year?

What do you think he spends all his time doing during the week during the season?

Training camp basically makes it a 20 week season instead of 16. We expect the guys who play in the preseason to have their regular season game worked into shape by the second or third week of the season. Even if you give RG3 a 7 week mulligan, he should be 4 games into his stride by now.

This is correct. Plus, I'm guessing many have never been to witness a training camp. The amount of time the QB goes full speed (not game speed) is about 10%. There is far too much emphasis being put on TC. Even with that, RG3 has had ample time to offset missing TC.

I've been to Redskins training camp specifically. Sure he's had time to get back into the swing of things. But when teams are working all offseason to stop you and you're working all season rehabbing a knee injury, things aren't going to go so well. Give him a full offseason and he'll be much improved.

What specifically did you see at Redskins camp that leads you to believe would help Griffin be better?

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What we are seeing is a second year rookie QB who spent the entire off season rehabbing and unable to work on his craft. While the rest of the league worked on how to stop him. Defensive coordinators have a lot of pride and stopping RGIII and the read option was on everyone's short list. It proves that a QB needs the off-season to prepare and you can't do that while rehabbing and even more so for a second year rookie. Especially now with the new rules for practice the teams have to follow. With RGIII we are seeing the result of not enough on field preparation, a QB that has lost his confidence and is not the leader that many thought he was. Hopefully he will make it through the rest of the season without getting really injured or getting his ego or confidence shattered in the process. In watching him defect questions, I think he is far more fragile and immature than most think. We may just be witnessing the second coming of Vince Young! He was off my draft board by the way for these very reasons. He's no AP and I haven't seen any QB come off an ACL and play well the next year especially one that runs the read option as a key to his success. He will also be off my draft board next year and until I see how his head turns out will not get a look in any round. Said all that to say this. I really dont think RG could hanldle getting benched so unless he gets hurt he's the starter.

Personally, I think the players association screwed themselves by negotiating softer practice routines. It is painfully obvious that the players aren't in the shape they need to be in to take the punishment of a full season of hitting. Practicing in pads and in weather prepares your body and toughens it up. These players are softer and it's noticeable.

Reminds me of a quote from Apocalypse Now. "Every day I squat here, Charlie is getting stronger while he squats in the bush". Players fought for easier practice schedules and now they are paying for it in injuries to hamstrings, quads, ankles, necks, shoulders and heads. I do believe this is the worst season for injuries that I have seen. Repeat injuries too. That short list that every team has should they need to sign someone to plug a whole, is empty. Especially if you need D linemen. I just think they went too far in negotiating a softer practice schedule and is costing us quality football on the field.

The lack of offseason for him is a bigger issue than most are making it out to be. Is it 100% right now? Maybe, maybe not. I don't think you'll find many players at 100% this late in the season. But when you spend all offseason working on getting your knee back together, you don't have much time to work on drop backs, timing with your WRs, watching film, reading defenses, etc.

I believe RG3 is a great competitor and will work hard in the offseason to prove this season was a fluke. He'll be able to work with his WRs, work on his passing game, and spend plenty of time watching film. Dude just had too much going on last offseason. I'm not even close to throwing in the towel yet. Weren't we saying all these things about Cam last year?

What do you think he spends all his time doing during the week during the season?

Training camp basically makes it a 20 week season instead of 16. We expect the guys who play in the preseason to have their regular season game worked into shape by the second or third week of the season. Even if you give RG3 a 7 week mulligan, he should be 4 games into his stride by now.

This is correct. Plus, I'm guessing many have never been to witness a training camp. The amount of time the QB goes full speed (not game speed) is about 10%. There is far too much emphasis being put on TC. Even with that, RG3 has had ample time to offset missing TC.

I've been to Redskins training camp specifically. Sure he's had time to get back into the swing of things. But when teams are working all offseason to stop you and you're working all season rehabbing a knee injury, things aren't going to go so well. Give him a full offseason and he'll be much improved.

What specifically did you see at Redskins camp that leads you to believe would help Griffin be better?

Just more practice in general. He didn't do a ton at TC. If I remember, he didn't really even do many team drills until toward the end of TC. He mainly was doing individual drills and 7-on-7.

I believe he needs to spend this offseason working more on his footwork and drop backs. He didn't get a ton of time to do that during the offseason. Every QB will always tell you there is something they can do better and improve. I'm sure RG3 would tell you that's what he needs to work on. I'm sure part of the footwork is knee related. And has the knee keeps getting stronger and stronger, his footwork will improve.

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Defending RG3 by saying his OLine is awful is lazy and simply making excuses for him

Some of the pressure RG3 gets is absolutely not his fault, sure. But much of it is by him not properly avoiding pressure (his pocket awareness is really bad right now) or holding on to the ball too long. The latter could be a result of WRs not getting open or RG3 not progressing through his reads fast enough.

I believe a good example of this is the Philly qb situation with Foles and Vick, or Cleveland with Hoyer (sample size). Beginning the season the philly oline was thought to be a sieve. Vick took lots of hits and was seemingly constanly under duress. Then Foles comes in (completely immobile) and the oline suddenly improves.

Foles smartly avoids pressure and has excellent timing with his wrs. The oline issues still exist, Foles just handles the rush much, much better than Vick. Even while being less mobile.

I believe RG3 (especially last night against SF) and Luck are both working with receivers that have difficulty getting consistent separation.

So I guess I wouldn't be opposed to seeing how Cousins would fare because I honestly don't see how the qb play could be any worse. Given how RG3 has played in all but a few garbage-time quarters can we really say he gives Washington the best chance to win? I say no. Keeping him in for developmental reasons is beyond silly at this point

This PFF ranking supports my claims imo Washington has the 4th highest rated line in the league

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/11/20/ranking-the-2013-offensive-lines-second-quarter/5/

Honest question: Do you really think that Denver's current O-line, the one that has been ravaged with injuries, is the #1 (that's right, very top of the league) in pass-blocking? Because your cited rankings as proof and those rankings say they're #1.

Common sense, and actually watching the Redskins play now and then, can quickly tell you all you need to know here. PFF's pass-blocking stats are severely flawed. I have no doubt they ranked Peyton's Indy O-line as top of the line too, until the moment his quick release and decision making suffered a neck injury. Suddenly, magically, the backup QB was getting sacked at the highest rate in the league. Funny how dependent these rankings are on the QB, isn't it?

Using the PFF as the be-all, end-all of rankings for O-lines is lazy. Just open your eyes and watch a Redskins game, that'll tell you all you need to know about their pass blocking.

I honestly have never looked at the different metrics and analyses that go into PFF's oline rankings but I do know that they are widely cited as being credible.

Denver being ranked #1 indicates there are some results-based numbers used (results-based as in the qb didn't get pressured ergo the o-line did it's job, not adjusting for individual qb variables etc) but doesn't that assumption mean that RG3 shares a larger portion of the blame than expected?

And I know I'm coming off as a RG3 hater or whatever but when I watch Washington play I notice how jittery/frantic/terrified RG3 looks in the pocket. That and his egregious overthrows

While you are watching RGIII run around, spend some time watching the oline. No way they are top 5, and I like their site and how they use statistics to measure players.

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Defending RG3 by saying his OLine is awful is lazy and simply making excuses for him

Some of the pressure RG3 gets is absolutely not his fault, sure. But much of it is by him not properly avoiding pressure (his pocket awareness is really bad right now) or holding on to the ball too long. The latter could be a result of WRs not getting open or RG3 not progressing through his reads fast enough.

I believe a good example of this is the Philly qb situation with Foles and Vick, or Cleveland with Hoyer (sample size). Beginning the season the philly oline was thought to be a sieve. Vick took lots of hits and was seemingly constanly under duress. Then Foles comes in (completely immobile) and the oline suddenly improves.

Foles smartly avoids pressure and has excellent timing with his wrs. The oline issues still exist, Foles just handles the rush much, much better than Vick. Even while being less mobile.

I believe RG3 (especially last night against SF) and Luck are both working with receivers that have difficulty getting consistent separation.

So I guess I wouldn't be opposed to seeing how Cousins would fare because I honestly don't see how the qb play could be any worse. Given how RG3 has played in all but a few garbage-time quarters can we really say he gives Washington the best chance to win? I say no. Keeping him in for developmental reasons is beyond silly at this point

This PFF ranking supports my claims imo Washington has the 4th highest rated line in the league

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/11/20/ranking-the-2013-offensive-lines-second-quarter/5/

Honest question: Do you really think that Denver's current O-line, the one that has been ravaged with injuries, is the #1 (that's right, very top of the league) in pass-blocking? Because your cited rankings as proof and those rankings say they're #1.

Common sense, and actually watching the Redskins play now and then, can quickly tell you all you need to know here. PFF's pass-blocking stats are severely flawed. I have no doubt they ranked Peyton's Indy O-line as top of the line too, until the moment his quick release and decision making suffered a neck injury. Suddenly, magically, the backup QB was getting sacked at the highest rate in the league. Funny how dependent these rankings are on the QB, isn't it?

Using the PFF as the be-all, end-all of rankings for O-lines is lazy. Just open your eyes and watch a Redskins game, that'll tell you all you need to know about their pass blocking.

I honestly have never looked at the different metrics and analyses that go into PFF's oline rankings but I do know that they are widely cited as being credible.

Denver being ranked #1 indicates there are some results-based numbers used (results-based as in the qb didn't get pressured ergo the o-line did it's job, not adjusting for individual qb variables etc) but doesn't that assumption mean that RG3 shares a larger portion of the blame than expected?

And I know I'm coming off as a RG3 hater or whatever but when I watch Washington play I notice how jittery/frantic/terrified RG3 looks in the pocket. That and his egregious overthrows

While you are watching RGIII run around, spend some time watching the oline. No way they are top 5, and I like their site and how they use statistics to measure players.

Agreed. No chance Skins OL is in the top 5. Maybe run blocking, but they can't pass block, especially since the Denver game.

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