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QB Kirk Cousins, ATL (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter pizzatyme
- Start date
pizzatyme
Footballguy
I think there is a chance that the O Line isn't trying as hard as they could. If you think your QB is holding the ball too long and therefore making you look bad, you say screw it. Maybe he then learns to get rid of it sooner
It wouldn't be the first time a backup came in and the like suddenly played or looked better.
And I get it that RG3 might get his feelings hurt by sitting a few games, but maybe the staff can sell him on trying to showcase Cousins for an off season trade. All the while they would be protecting their prized asset.
If they stand pat, I sense this ends tragically for Griffin.
It wouldn't be the first time a backup came in and the like suddenly played or looked better.
And I get it that RG3 might get his feelings hurt by sitting a few games, but maybe the staff can sell him on trying to showcase Cousins for an off season trade. All the while they would be protecting their prized asset.
If they stand pat, I sense this ends tragically for Griffin.
You do realize that the Titans and Texans (the 2 teams McGloin) has faced are in the bottom 12 for sacks generated, right?
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
fatness
Footballguy
fatness
Footballguy
I don't sense lack of trying; just lack of ability to pass block and lack of hope/inspiration. By now the players know they're getting little or no help from the coaching staff they're stuck with.
That line was put together to run stretch plays and to play on the move. They're small and don't pass block well, never have. This year there's far more straight dropback passing plays called which plays right into their weakness. Last night showed how good they are at pass blocking.
But that's not how the NFL works.
Should the Falcons sit Ryan since they can't make the playoffs & don't want him to get hurt?
Should TB stop playing Glennon since they aren't going to make the playoffs, and he looks like he might be their QB of the future?
Should Jax.......never mind.
Houston turmOiler
Footballguy
I agree this year's just a terrible year. He got basically no offseason and it is definitely showing. Is playing like crap right now and a lot of other factors from the offense of line and wide receivers to the coaches are not helping. Time to regroup and rebuild and get ready for a new season.
fatness
Footballguy
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/redskins-49ers-what-does-future-hold-for-redskins-mike-shanahan-after-mnf-loss/2013/11/26/0a1bc794-5652-11e3-835d-e7173847c7cc_story.html
The right side of the O-line is particularly bad at pass blocking.
Houston turmOiler
Footballguy
That sounds eerily similar to the Texans. What a disaster Shanahan and Kubiak have become.... I felt bad for you guys last night because I can completely relate and it sucks to watch a guy like Griffin take a few steps backwards. The guy looked so talented and was exciting last season.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
The FIRST mistake they made last night, was starting the game with 3 passes in a row (3 and out)
Morris has been underutilized ALL season so far... He should be getting the rock 25-30 times a game right now. Theyre set up to run, but theyre avoiding it.
Control the clock. control the tempo. give Morris the damn ball.
You know things are ####, when Helu is getting important 4th and 1 runs instead of Morris. Absolute stupidity.
Morris has been underutilized ALL season so far... He should be getting the rock 25-30 times a game right now. Theyre set up to run, but theyre avoiding it.
Control the clock. control the tempo. give Morris the damn ball.
You know things are ####, when Helu is getting important 4th and 1 runs instead of Morris. Absolute stupidity.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Get rid of it quick to who? Can you show me All-22 screenshots of the quick developing routes with open receivers where Griffin didn't throw it?lod01 said:
ETA: It drove me nuts when ESPN put up that stat and made a big deal about how so many of RGIII's passes were short screen type passes last night. They were basically ripping them for it and that seemed exactly backwards to me. They were averaging over 7 yards per completion that way, which was much higher than anything else they were doing. Griffin was getting murdered every time he dropped back for a long developing play as the Niners just kept sending the house. Quick passes were the absolute best thing they could have done and they didn't do nearly enough of it. Made no sense that Gruden was ripping the Redskins for running those plays.
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Statorama
gangster
This hasn't been brought up nearly enough. This is exhibit A that your starters need at least "some" pre-season activity to get their stuff together.Houston turmOiler said:
At the very least the Redskins would have had a better feel for what RG was dealing with mobility wise in a game situation.
Houston turmOiler
Footballguy
Great point. Many of their passing plays are designed play action to get big chunks of yardage down the field. Morris should absolutely be the focal point of this offense right now. The best drive they had last night was when he was heavily involved. Considering how bad the defense and Griffin are right now I would be giving this guy 25 to 30 carries a game to try and control clock.Soulfly3 said:
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I believe RG3 is the future in DC, but Shanny should have benched him when the game was out of reach. Give Cousins the rock with 2 minutes remaining to avoid a potential injury with RG3. Sometimes a coach has to protect the player from himself. RG3 ran the ball on his last possession???? Stupid.
4th and 10 at WSH 15 (Shotgun) R.Griffin scrambles left end to WAS 22 for 7 yards (C.Rogers).
4th and 10 at WSH 15 (Shotgun) R.Griffin scrambles left end to WAS 22 for 7 yards (C.Rogers).
Jenkinssssss
Footballguy
This thread is full blown AIDs. You can readily tell who drafted/acquired RG3 this season.
I love that everyone expects miraculous AP level ACL recoveries. Idiots.
Edit: lol at Kirk Cousins being anything close to startable. He might do ok for 1 game like every other backup this year and then would get destroyed.
I love that everyone expects miraculous AP level ACL recoveries. Idiots.
Edit: lol at Kirk Cousins being anything close to startable. He might do ok for 1 game like every other backup this year and then would get destroyed.
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fatness
Footballguy
Nobody wants to hear this. What you said is true, but it's not headline-grabbing (what the media wants) or attention-grabbing (what message board posters want).
fatness
Footballguy
The only times their offense has sustained any momentum lately is when they go to what they call the turbo offense. It's a hurry-up offense (at least in terms of Shanahan's usual Galapago-tortoise pace) and it features Morris running a lot with passes interspersed. Its the only thing they do well this year.
The OC chose not to do it last night.
Defending RG3 by saying his OLine is awful is lazy and simply making excuses for him
Some of the pressure RG3 gets is absolutely not his fault, sure. But much of it is by him not properly avoiding pressure (his pocket awareness is really bad right now) or holding on to the ball too long. The latter could be a result of WRs not getting open or RG3 not progressing through his reads fast enough.
I believe a good example of this is the Philly qb situation with Foles and Vick, or Cleveland with Hoyer (sample size). Beginning the season the philly oline was thought to be a sieve. Vick took lots of hits and was seemingly constanly under duress. Then Foles comes in (completely immobile) and the oline suddenly improves.
Foles smartly avoids pressure and has excellent timing with his wrs. The oline issues still exist, Foles just handles the rush much, much better than Vick. Even while being less mobile.
I believe RG3 (especially last night against SF) and Luck are both working with receivers that have difficulty getting consistent separation.
So I guess I wouldn't be opposed to seeing how Cousins would fare because I honestly don't see how the qb play could be any worse. Given how RG3 has played in all but a few garbage-time quarters can we really say he gives Washington the best chance to win? I say no. Keeping him in for developmental reasons is beyond silly at this point
Some of the pressure RG3 gets is absolutely not his fault, sure. But much of it is by him not properly avoiding pressure (his pocket awareness is really bad right now) or holding on to the ball too long. The latter could be a result of WRs not getting open or RG3 not progressing through his reads fast enough.
I believe a good example of this is the Philly qb situation with Foles and Vick, or Cleveland with Hoyer (sample size). Beginning the season the philly oline was thought to be a sieve. Vick took lots of hits and was seemingly constanly under duress. Then Foles comes in (completely immobile) and the oline suddenly improves.
Foles smartly avoids pressure and has excellent timing with his wrs. The oline issues still exist, Foles just handles the rush much, much better than Vick. Even while being less mobile.
I believe RG3 (especially last night against SF) and Luck are both working with receivers that have difficulty getting consistent separation.
So I guess I wouldn't be opposed to seeing how Cousins would fare because I honestly don't see how the qb play could be any worse. Given how RG3 has played in all but a few garbage-time quarters can we really say he gives Washington the best chance to win? I say no. Keeping him in for developmental reasons is beyond silly at this point
Following Monday night's win over the Redskins, 49ers LB Ahmad Brooks said Robert Griffin III "shouldn't be playing."
Yes, Griffin is making awful decisions with his arm and not reading coverages correctly. But perhaps the bigger issue is that he's not able to mask those issues because his surgically-repaired knee isn't near 100 percent. The Redskins called just one designed run on Monday. "He's a man, he has the heart of a warrior and is going to go out there and play regardless of the circumstance," Brooks said. "Everybody can see it. Everybody can see it. He shouldn't be playing."
Yes, Griffin is making awful decisions with his arm and not reading coverages correctly. But perhaps the bigger issue is that he's not able to mask those issues because his surgically-repaired knee isn't near 100 percent. The Redskins called just one designed run on Monday. "He's a man, he has the heart of a warrior and is going to go out there and play regardless of the circumstance," Brooks said. "Everybody can see it. Everybody can see it. He shouldn't be playing."
Fat Nick
Footballguy
Not saying he's 100% wrong, but it's kind of ironic given the way Kaepernick has been playing. If he didn't have the SF defense bailing him out, I think it's reasonable to say they'd be 3-8 too.
Fat Nick
Footballguy
My two cents
-The O-line stinks. That is a change from last year. As someone noted, Shanny's O-lines are built for zone blocking, not pass blocking. They can do it, but they're better in space due to their smaller size.
-The Defense stinks. We can play the run OK...we can't cover to save our lives. Most of the receptions we've given up this year haven't even been contested. It's just a guy, wide-open, 10-15 yards down the field.
-RGIII was brought back too early. If he can't run, it doesn't open up the passing game. Without the passing game and RGIII run threats, Morris has no room...It's a vicious cycle. Early on, RGIII couldn't run. The pass coverage was thus tighter. He started making bad throws and it crapped his confidence. Think about it...This is really the first major on-field adversity he's faced and it shows. Last year, he was Mr. Interview because he still had his confidence. It's easy to "take one for the team," when you are confident. You start losing, making bad throws, etc. and your confidence goes...then you become more sensitive to criticism and some of his immaturity comes out.
-The WR's aren't helping him. Drops. Lots and lots of drops.
-Neither is the playcalling. When you're 1 score out of a game against a team with a great defense who is struggling offensively as well, why the heck do you go for it on 4th down at midfield in the 3rd quarter?? So you make it..OK, you've still got 35 yards to go against a solid D. If you miss it, it's a huge momentum swing and a short field for the opponent. HORRIBLE call. We lost the game on that botched conversion. Further, why calls a simple run on that kind of thing? To your 3rd down RB no less! Run with Morris who can get YAContact, run an option to give you some choices...run a roll-out pass...SOMETHING!
Basically, RGIII's confidence is shot. He needs it torn down and built back up. The OL stinks, which doesn't really give Cousins a shot either. Without passing, you stack the box against AlMorris, and he sucks too (i.e. why the 49'ers face 8+ man fronts all season b/c few fear Kaepernick). The secondary also sucks, which can make even average QB's look amazing. Let's face it, outside of D. Hall, who is having a great year, our CB's can't cover squat.
The hope for next year is that RGIII takes this as a learning experience from a maturity standpoint and learns how to lead in good times AND bad. Hopefully we can sign some help on the OL and defensive secondary. Maybe then we'll get going again. This year is a lost cause though. I don't know that firing MIKE Shanny is the answer...Kyle would be a good 1st step.
-The O-line stinks. That is a change from last year. As someone noted, Shanny's O-lines are built for zone blocking, not pass blocking. They can do it, but they're better in space due to their smaller size.
-The Defense stinks. We can play the run OK...we can't cover to save our lives. Most of the receptions we've given up this year haven't even been contested. It's just a guy, wide-open, 10-15 yards down the field.
-RGIII was brought back too early. If he can't run, it doesn't open up the passing game. Without the passing game and RGIII run threats, Morris has no room...It's a vicious cycle. Early on, RGIII couldn't run. The pass coverage was thus tighter. He started making bad throws and it crapped his confidence. Think about it...This is really the first major on-field adversity he's faced and it shows. Last year, he was Mr. Interview because he still had his confidence. It's easy to "take one for the team," when you are confident. You start losing, making bad throws, etc. and your confidence goes...then you become more sensitive to criticism and some of his immaturity comes out.
-The WR's aren't helping him. Drops. Lots and lots of drops.
-Neither is the playcalling. When you're 1 score out of a game against a team with a great defense who is struggling offensively as well, why the heck do you go for it on 4th down at midfield in the 3rd quarter?? So you make it..OK, you've still got 35 yards to go against a solid D. If you miss it, it's a huge momentum swing and a short field for the opponent. HORRIBLE call. We lost the game on that botched conversion. Further, why calls a simple run on that kind of thing? To your 3rd down RB no less! Run with Morris who can get YAContact, run an option to give you some choices...run a roll-out pass...SOMETHING!
Basically, RGIII's confidence is shot. He needs it torn down and built back up. The OL stinks, which doesn't really give Cousins a shot either. Without passing, you stack the box against AlMorris, and he sucks too (i.e. why the 49'ers face 8+ man fronts all season b/c few fear Kaepernick). The secondary also sucks, which can make even average QB's look amazing. Let's face it, outside of D. Hall, who is having a great year, our CB's can't cover squat.
The hope for next year is that RGIII takes this as a learning experience from a maturity standpoint and learns how to lead in good times AND bad. Hopefully we can sign some help on the OL and defensive secondary. Maybe then we'll get going again. This year is a lost cause though. I don't know that firing MIKE Shanny is the answer...Kyle would be a good 1st step.
buck naked
Footballguy
ShaHBucks
Footballguy
This isn't even about football, it's about business. You have to consider protecting your biggest asset.Bayhawks said:
If it was my team then yes. Ryan doesn't have the same concerns as RG3. Maybe you run the ball 50x's a game here. Atl won't even throw guys like Antone Smith out to see if he offers more than Quizz, so don't get me started on them. It's time to evaluated the roster for next year if you not competing for the playoffs.
Glennon is still being evaluated and is a cheap asset. TB didn't give up the farm for him. A good example of why I think this way would be last season with D. Martin. I thought limiting his touches in the last few weeks would be just as smart. But Schiano is some hard ### from another planet that continued to give him 300 carries a game. There is no benefit to that at all vs evaluating backup and resting Martin.
Personally, I'd give 3rd-4th string players a chance to prove themselves while protecting my building blocks. I don’t care how the NFL works. I’d go straight Greg Popovich. The rest of the season would be like Preseason game to an extent.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Remember when the Rams were doing better under the chump change backup QB than under the $60 mill man they chose over Griffin?
Then again the Rams have a defense, really that is where it all starts: who in the heck is going to excel under that kind of constant pressure. -- Skins/Griffin fans should be angry about Haslett first and then Shanny for hiring/keeping Haz second, or maybe vice versa.
Here's another thing: RW reports that Fred Davis did not even show up for team meetings this week, why in the heck does this guy get to be active much less start? That's bad coaching right there. What's more Griffin needed an effective TE more than ever last night.
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tdhartis
Footballguy
The line is built for running, and Morris is a perfect fit for Shannahan's zone blocking scheme. We've seen it a million times.
fatness
Footballguy
He has. The o-line can run block just fine. Pass blocking seems like learning a foreign language to them.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
fatness
Footballguy
Hold off on believing that report. The Redskin front office and Mike Shanahan have a history of feeding anonymous negative stories to the press about players when things aren't looking good for the coach.
What was stupid to me is that:
1. Josh Wilson was in a boot this week, yet they had him play cornerback all game and get beat time after time after time. They didn't replace him. They didn't give him help.
2. Niles Paul was doing a terrible job at TE, and Fred Davis was active. Davis is miles better than Paul, but he didn't play til the last drive.
There's nothing organized or planned about this team any more, just a series of decisions made by different people that result in crap. A run-blocking line called on to pass protect all game. No TE to throw to with a decent TE on the bench. An injured CB on the field getting beat like a dog for 4 quarters, with no change in defensive strategy.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
This isn't about football? The reason RGIII is their biggest asset is because he PLAYS FOOTBALL!!
It's not your team, though, and if you did own the Redskins, you wouldn't think the way you are posting. Besides you are contradicting yourself. You say Glennon is still being evaluated, but so is RGIII. He needs to show that he can read defenses better, progress through his reads better, etc.
As for your Greg Popovich comment, that's basketball, not football. The NBA has an 82-game season, so there are way more opportunities to "see what other players have." Similar to MLB and the NHL, those are long seasons where you can use stretches of time when you are out of contention, or have locked in a playoff berth/seed, and can give your backups a shot. The NFL doesn't have that. They have 16 regular season games, and then 4 pre-season games that do not simulate a regular season game. That is why Martin was getting carries last year, because it was in the team's best interests to allow him to get that work in, AND to demonstrate to their fans that they haven't "thrown in the towel." That is why RGIII is going to continue to play, as long as he is healthy, despite what you, bloggers, or talking heads say on TV.
I tried to re-read this post to make sure it doesn't seem like I'm attacking you. I'm not, and if it gives that impression, I'm sorry. It just seems like the reporters, bloggers, and "experts" should know that NFL teams don't give back-ups a shot when they have a young QB who needs the work. It sends the wrong message to the team, to the fans, and to the players involved (starter and backups).
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
I don't know where you think I was going with that, I can't wait until Shanahan and his regime is gone. I was just correcting that portion of your post.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Right, I know, I agree - just making fun of myself for my own lack of info, thanks for the response and insight.
What comparison? I didn't compare Ben and RGIII. I merely responded to your mis-guided post that if you:
That is exactly what Roethlisberger did before Arians left: he would hold onto the ball forever, pump fake and pump fake, scramble around, make big plays, take big hits (he's been sacked 30+ times every season save his 2nd & only played 16 games once), & he went to 3 SuperBowls, winning two.lod01 said:
I think winning a SB is, in NFL terms, the very definition of "ending well," so obviously your comment was inaccurate.
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ShaHBucks
Footballguy
I don't think you understood me. I wouldn't sit RG3 solely on football. With less than 1% chance of making the playoffs my main concern is a healthy RG3 week 1 of 2014. You'd majestically start hearing about swelling he experienced in his knee. He will have to get better in the many other ways I pay people millions for. Trust me, everything you say sound good, but it's apart of the reason coaches get fired every 2-3 years by drinking the same old kool-aid. You are not telling me anything that I haven't heard before or didn't expect as a rebuttal. And I'm sure I'd know if I own the redskins or not. You would too after I changed the name to the flying pigs or something.
Isn't this a team? If you want to be all cliché and create a winning culture for your fan base/locker room then what is the harm is sitting a below avg QB for one that played well when given a chance? Winning isn't even good for your draft position at this point. I'm not saying go lose the game. If Cousins goes all Nick Foles on us you now have another asset! Only some players can win and others can't? That doesn't sound like much of a team/family to me.
Martin was ran into the ground with 300+ carries. His backups looked better than him this season. Can I blame Schanio for that after all of that work he got in a meaningless week 17 game? No, were trying to win! And i'm not contradicting myself. I'm adding context. RG3 showed what he can do when he is right. Something is up. He's missing plays that were routine for him until now. As of now I'm concerned and doing the best thing for him longterm by pulling the plug. If you trust you evaluation that he's a once in a generation talent that will lead you for a decade then why the hell is missing 2-3 meaningless games such a big deal? Does Cousins not need work?
And no basketball isn't different. It's still professional sports where players age like milk. Any chance guys can get to not pound their bodies is good.
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