Drugrunner's Alias
Footballguy
The guy's entire history reeks of Drug use and Thug-like behavior. He is absolutely guilty.That still doesn't mean he will go down.
:juice:
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Jamal Lewis indicted on drug conspiracy charges... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter TheDirtyWord
- Start date
:juice:
I agree with this to a point. I'll defer to the lawyer who said that fed prosecutors have a very high conviction rate. I think the odds are better than 50/50 that Jamal goes down eventually. However, I bet he plays this year. Billick doesn't strike me as a "character" guy...
also, here is a more descriptive account of what the affidavit describes:
this is obviously worse than what was originally reported. Jamal is clearly not a very smart individual.I still think the fact that the deal never actually went down is enough to keep him out of jail, but that's just my opinion.
The Houston Stallions
Footballguy
This is a good point. He wanted to help a friend find some good quality blow. Because the effects from a bad toot is nothing to snort at!!! :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
You can take the thug out of the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of the thug.
The Houston Stallions
Footballguy
What I can't believe is that we can sniff (no pun intened) out a Portis trade 2 days before the possiblility is announced by a newspaper or ESPN but we haven't heard a peep of this in 3.5 years???? WTF???
Portis 26
Madden Freak
Because the federal authorities are not the kind of guys who are going to gossip to newspapers or other media sources about a case they are preparing. That's usually how rumors get out. Someone talks to a journalist and before you know it, the story is out. But these guys make Darth Vader look soft. They're not going to tell a soul about it.
Portis 26
Madden Freak
Do you actually know anything about this case? Because if you did, you would realise it is a FEDERAL case and those guys are SERIOUSLY hard-core. They have a 95% conviction rate and they will have a meticulously prepared case. The best lawyer in the land wouldn't be able to get Lewis off.
azgroover
Footballguy
No, I don't claim to know anything about this case and I'm pretty certain you don't know anything more than I do; unless you're one of "those guys" who are "hard core". I just know Jamal is going to get off despite you telling me two times that "those guys" are "hard core". Jamal won't have the best lawyer in the land. I'm sure he'll have 3-5 of them.
SuperGreen
Footballguy
this isn't marcia clark vs OJ
Portis 26
Madden Freak
All I need to know in this case is that it is a federal one. You don't appear to realise the significance of this. That means Lewis isn't up against some hick sheriff or some underfunded police department. It means he is up against the FBI. They have massive resources that dwarf anything that Lewis has at his disposal. They will only have gone after Lewis because they are 100% sure that their case is water-tight and they can get him. Got it?
Absolutely right ... defining an overt act is really easy to do now. Things like just showing up at a location or making a phone call might suffice. Also like someone else said, getting a Grand Jury indictment is easy. Evidence not admissible at trial gets in, confessions against 5th amendment self-incrimination rights get in ... you name it, its in. However, that does not mean that all that stuff gets in at trial -- hell, most of it probably won't be.We still have lots to learn about this -- the Feds won't mess around, but right the best we can do is speculate.
SuperGreen
Footballguy
relevant comparison there...
Good point supergreen, potential witnesses are not afraid of Lewis running them over on the goal line! And to add, those in agreement that a Federal Indictment in no joke, they are right. They do not bring charges unless they have concrete evidence for a conviction. And they will not do that just to get others to turn on someone. If that was the case he would have been watched and arrested for jaywalking, then badgered. This is a federal case and it will stick! Mark my words, the FEDS have more on him than they are revealing. Its not like he's never touched a drug either, not good for the character route. Makes me feel better about trading him for portis now!!!! 
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Loomba
Footballguy
I think JohnnyU is correct about the conviction rate. Prosecutors don't have a 95% conviction rate on matters that go to trial. It is far lower. Proving a crime beyond a reasonable doubt is not easy, and shouldn't be. What I would like to know from any attorneys hanging around this thread is the timeline go forward. Jamal will turn himself in tomorrow and be processed, post bail? and be released, presumably? I think a prelim hearing is next to happen. How long before this starts? And if it goes to trial? Would a trial even start in 2004? I look at the Michael Pittman matter to suggest it could be a while for this thing to work through the legal mill.Also, what about the NFL's drug program. Is it only about drug use/abuse or would it catch this type of activity. Presumably it would. I assume Lewis would need to be convicted before the league can declare strike 3 and suspend him for a year?If you own Lewis, do not trade him now. You will get low value for a guy that probably will be playing this coming season, I believe.I would also like to know from an attorney what are the elements that need to be proven to convict on a drug conspiracy charge. Is a conversation about doing a drug deal sufficient. Or do you have to demonstrate Lewis had intent to actually carry out the act conspired about? I would expect a lot of people have talked about doing drug deals before but have never done the deal or been serious about doing the deal in the first place. Are all these crimes?Thank you to my learned friends in advance.
azgroover
Footballguy
Ok, fine I'll take back the batting 1.000 part now...lets adjust it to 0.975 But the Tyson thing was quite a reach. Besides, how long ago was that Tyson conviction and how many arrests of "rich and famous" have there been in-between then and now? Methinks quite a few; with a pretty low conviction rate. I don't care what the Feds conviction rate is because its a totally different ballgame when they have to face teams of good attorneys rather than the usual court-appointed guy that some schlep dealer off the street is forced to hire.
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Portis 26
Madden Freak
All excellent questions, but I would make two points.i) The federal authorities would not have acted unless they viewed the evidence as being so strong as to justify that action.ii) This is not a Pittman-like situation where a smart lawyer can spin out a case. And if Lewis is facing trial on these exceptionally serious charges I would be VERY surprised if he would be allowed to play in the NFL either by the court or indeed by the NFL itself.
Loomba
Footballguy
Azgroover, I think you are correct about what underlies why it appears a lot of wealthy folks beat convictions -- it is the fact that they can afford the best attorneys and pay them to spend a lot of time dissecting the prosecution's case and challenging every aspect of it.In OJ, his team argued and challenged every aspect of the prosecution's case to the point where they were able to create reasonable doubt. That takes time and money and not everyone can afford to pay attorneys to do that. The guy that gets assigned to the schlep's case is probably a good attorney in most cases, but he has 100 matters to deal with and can't possibly do the same job as Johnny Cochrane/Jackie Chiles...
jetmonkey
Footballguy
The JLewis owner in our keeper league won our Super Bowl this year.I passed up on him on draft night two years ago thinking that there's no way he was gonna dodge strike three and the year suspension. I sure could have used him last year. His owner owes me over $200 for Super Bowl 10 by 10s, think I'll drop by to collect this weekend and feel him out trade wise.
Loomba
Footballguy
I agree, prosecutors generally don't press charges unless they have a "reasonable likelihood of obtaining a conviction". So that scares me, as a Lewis owner. I would be disappointed if the NFL would suspend Lewis before he stands trial as it flies completely in the face of the principle of remaining innocent until proven guilty.I don't think a court can prevent him from playing until he is convicted and sentenced. The only way I think they could do so is if they ordered that he be held in custody pending trial. I am not sure, but I think this step is generally reserved for extremely rare circumstances where the accused is considered a flight risk or likely to reoffend and is a danger to society. I wouldn't expect Lewis to fall into that category considering the charges relate to events that occurred in 2000 and he apparently has been clean since then (as far as we know).
NY/NJMFDIVER
Footballguy
They wouldn't charge him 4 years later if this couldn't stick. Looks like he'll be livin the Longest Yard soon enough.
Just off the top of my head for this question ...Traditionally a consipiracy requires 1) an agreement between two or more persons; 2) with intent to enter into the agreement; and 3) intent to achieve the objective of the agreement. Thinking back to bar review days -- I don't think all states require an overt act .. but most do.So mere talking about dealing may not be enough unless there is intent to meet the conspiracy objectives. Drugs, robbery, burglary, all the same ... its a qustion of intent.
Dolfan
Footballguy
I think, in Keeper leagues (most redrafts haven't drafted yet anyways) that now is EXACTLY the time to deal Lewis.There is no doubt in my mind that Lewis does not play this year and although his value is low now, it will certainly be lower when it is declared 100% that he won't play. At least now about 50% of people think he will somehow play this year :wacko: That's 6 of the owners in your 12-team league you have to work with.... Get to work.
{Pretty much they all do - I can't think of any that don't and I read a TON of criminal cases. The overt act in furtherance is part of the black law definition of conspiracy - can't prosecute on mere intent to do wrong and an agreement to do wrong. Besides, the federal statutes def. requires an overt act. The ACTUS reas goes with the MENS reas.That said, JLew's meeting with a CI at a restaurant to discuss price is enough to constitute an act in furtherance of the drug conspiracy - you don't have to actually buy drugs, and the crime does not need to be completed, but there needs to be an ACT that takes it beyond two people sitting around talking about how to set up a drug ring and kick some money back up to Jamal lewis.The feds have enough info, maybe not all admissible, to "get" Jamal Lewis thrown in jail pending trial - of course he can make bail. That said, I'd be surprised if JLew is the target - JLew's testimony against an old friend who's still in the "biz" is probably what they are after. 3.5 year old drug deals that were not consummated is not what the federal government is all about. If Jamal Lewis completed this crime and it is now rearing its ugly head AND he's the one they are after, someone in the NFL really missed the boat in evaluating Jamal before the draft.
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