Watching Reggie Bush in this offense now that more weapons have been added and the offensive line is a little more mature, what do you think he could have done? I was a huge Best fan, I thought he was arguably more explosive then Bush. His hands probably aren't as good as Reggie's, but they weren't bad either. I think Best could have easily ran for 1200 with 40 receptions makin him stud-ish. What say you, sharks?
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Jahvid Best- What could have been? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Mikey16x
- Start date
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
I LOVED Best. Didn't believe his career was over and traded for him in two leagues after his last concussion. That was right around the time the NFL started really cracking down on concussion protocol, etc. and I was still buying the "old" way of thinking that you'd rather see your fantasy player suffer a concussion than an ACL or even broken leg. Now a concussion is the most terrifying injury there is for a dynasty owner--look at the fear surrounding Reed right now.
Rolling_akg
Footballguy
What couldve been?
1. Barry Sanders part deux
2. He dies on the field
1. Barry Sanders part deux
2. He dies on the field
cobalt_27
Footballguy
An ACL or broken leg are far worse than a concussion. The hysteria has gone to your head.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
cobalt_27
Footballguy
An ACL or broken leg is far worse than a concussion to a player with a prior concussion history.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
No, it's not. An ACL or broken leg is almost never ending a player's career. A consecutive concussion just may. Other owners immediately discount almost any player with a worrisome concussion history--see Shorts.
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cobalt_27
Footballguy
Repeated concussions are also almost never career ending. I evaluate athletes all the time, many of whom report a history of 10, 20, 30 lifetime concussions and went on to play full careers in their adult professional lives. You couldn't break your leg or tear an ACL that many times because you'd be done after the third event, if not sooner.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Do you think you're more likely to tear an ACL three times, or sustain multiple concussions? The concussions add up much more quickly and can occur on any play, whereas something like an ACL is pretty frequently a freak non-contact injury.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
More likely to sustain a concussion. What does that have to do with your original post? If anything, you've just undercut your own argument.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
What? You're more likely to sustain a concussion, and multiple concussions, than do something like tear your ACL. And it's the scarier long-term injury if repeated, with a higher likelihood of recurring. And with the NFL's concussion awareness PR campaign, dynasty owners are more turned off by a concussion history than ever before.So how does any of this undercut my original point that a concussion, for a player with a concussion history, is worse news for a dynasty owner than an ACL?
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Lott's Fingertip
Footballguy
Ah, good ol' Jahvid Best... I remember when Jamaal Charles tore his ACL. I traded Charles and Ryan Williams (also injured at the time) for Best and LeShoure to fuel my playoff push. Best promptly got his concussion and wasted a roster spot on my team for over a year. I actually won the championship that year anyway with Reggie Bush and Ryan Mathews at RB and Romo giving me a goose egg in week 16. Thanks to Calvin, Jordy, and Brandon M for coming through when I needed you most.
I think people forget that Best played most of his rookie year on a gimpy knee. (IIRC) Dude was a player, just never got on track.
I think people forget that Best played most of his rookie year on a gimpy knee. (IIRC) Dude was a player, just never got on track.
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cobalt_27
Footballguy
Because it's not. Because a concussion is not worse than an ACL or broken leg. And to say otherwise reflects a complete misunderstanding of the science behind concussions in addition to the pragmatic impact of the league'a concussion protocol.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
I think we're having two different conversations here.
You're saying that medically, a broken leg or ACL is worse than a concussion, even for a guy with a concussion history. That may well be true on whatever arbitrary scale you're measuring to decide what is "worse".
I'm talking about what these injuries mean for dynasty value and how they're perceived by dynasty owners. There is no doubt that broken legs and ACL's are routine at this point. But a concussion to a player with a concussion history can kill the value of a guy just from the fear, and possibly you're correct on the misinformation out there, on the topic. That's what I'm talking about.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Best was still failing concussions tests this past summer and almost 2 years removed from his last concussion. If you saw the last concussion that ended Bests career it was on a leg tackle from behind. A clean low tackle from behind and Best did not even hit his head..his neck just jerked a little. Best was never the same after that hit at Cal where he landed on his head and neck.
Breesisdaman
Footballguy
Best needs to pick a non contact sport and beast in that. Football isn't for him anymore. Plenty of sports out there that his talent could translate into.
steveski
Footballguy
Breesisdaman
Footballguy
VA703
Footballguy
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
He might have been better than Barry.
Fat Nick
Footballguy
Because if you tear an ACL, you are out for an extended period of time, no questions asked. Sure, you can be AP and be back in 9 months, but you're still out for 9 months. A concussion doesn't necessarily do that. Look at Bell. That concussion he sustained on TNF against the Ravens was one of the worst looking things I've seen. I thought he was dead. But he played a week later. Jordan Reed suffered a concussion over a month ago, we're not even positive what play it happened on, and he's still out.ConnSKINS26 said:
Bell sustained multiple concussions in a relatively short period of time (4 in 3 years, I think), and that is why he isn't playing any more. But ACL's are still (FF-speaking), worse for an NFL player than concussions (during their careers, that is).
Ridiculous
This is closer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQsykbQXVRA
Nothing like Barry in the weight room, 5-10 191 probably is more like people here than in NFL. I'm totally willing to give this kid time though and see if he can't be super special. There's enough videos of moves like that, vision like that, that remind me of greatness.
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
It would be extremely fortunate to be as good as Barry nevermind better. While his career is over, if you stated as such before it began I'd say you set the bar too high for Best.
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
Yes it is.
It's debatable to Brown, Sayers, and Emmitt fans, but I don't really think in any other context that it's debatable that Barry was the best and beyond special. To say some prospect might be better than the best RB ever is certainly setting the bar too high.
Fat Nick
Footballguy
Truthfully, in terms of vision and cutting ability, nobody comes close to Sanders. I think most would agree he SHOULD be the NFL rushing record holder. Emmit, with no disrespect intended, has more yards than Barry simply due to longevity and a better team for most of his career. I've seen highlight films of great backs making people look like fools in high school, maybe in college, but only Barry made a career out of making folks look like amateurs in the NFL. See the run at 1:22 here for an example.
Another one at 2:38...I don't even know what was going on there. There are other running backs who one could argue were as effective as Sanders (ADP for one...), but Sanders just made people look like fools.
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
I don't disagree. His son sure makes me think about genes and what gets passed onto a child as far as football skills. There's enough highlights out there that are so much like his dad.
Now he went to a private school and didn't play against top HS talent and is on the bench at Stanford. He doesn't have experience against top talent really and those highlights need a giant grain of salt, but Barry jr is so intriguing.
Jarrett Payton looked like a not good RB that was well coached and worked hard so he found a way at times. He didn't remind me of Sweetness. At the moment, I can't think of a comparison.
Stanford can attract top talent and put them in at RB. They don't need to wait while someone develops and/or give someone a chance to develop. I thought he should go to a smaller school and transfer after some "seasoning."
I will be very curious if he continues to play very little but has moves like that...if an NFL team will sign him anyway. Not even 100 yards a season, but those moves are so reminiscent...oh I find him fascinating
Fat Nick
Footballguy
You don't have your birthday posted in your profile, otherwise I could answer this myself, but did you ever SEE him play? I mean, on TV, live? The guy made unbelievable runs that made defenders look like idiots. He WAS the Lions when he played. Teams game-planned to stop Barry, and still couldn't. As Bri said, there were other good RB's...but the guys worth mentioning in the same breath as Sanders had long, amazing careers to back up their ability. I'm not saying Jahvid wasn't good, but saying that based on his limited time in the league, he deserves to be in the same class as Sanders/Sayers/Smith/Peyton/Brown is like saying a guy who hits a HR in his 1st MLB at-bat will be the next Hank Aaron.
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
Yes, I have seen him play live. I have no problem saying he was better than Smith. I think Payton was a better all around RB, and Jim Brown was better running the ball than Sanders. I know this is a heretical statement in the Church of Sanders. There is really nowhere else to go here. Your last statement is pretty hyperbolic, but I think you know that.
Fat Nick
Footballguy
I don't think any of those statements are heretical truthfully. I have no issue with someone saying Payton was a better all-around RB, and/or that Jim Brown was better running the ball. Those are two of the all-time-greats. Jim Brown was a power runner the likes of which Barry wasn't. It's like comparing Jerry Rice to Megatron. Calvin's pure athleticism and size make him a lot more impressive, in some respects, to watch. Jerry was just a very very disciplined receiver who knew what to do and when to do it. I can see arguments for both in the GOAT discussion at WR.
I guess I just never saw Best at that level. At a minimum, I didn't see ENOUGH of Best to even start thinking that way. Don't get me wrong...I think he could have been very good, especially in that offense. Heck, I drafted him in the 2nd round of my draft the year he got hurt. He was amazing for the first few games. (Wish I would've taken that Best for Jimmy Graham trade in retrospect) I just never saw him as being "great."
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Best essentially had two really good games in his season and a half long career amidst a bevy of poor ones. People remember him as better than he was because he racked up some decent fantasy stats in those couple big games and with a lot of garbage time receptions. He was a very poor runner, likely too poor to hold onto the job had he not gotten hurt unless he significantly improved.
The guy averaged over 4ypc in just 5 of his 22 career games. He was more likely to average 2ypc or under in a game (which he did 6 times) than he was over 4ypc.
Kevin Smith outperformed him running the ball (by a not insignificant amount) despite running in much less favorable situations.
The guy averaged over 4ypc in just 5 of his 22 career games. He was more likely to average 2ypc or under in a game (which he did 6 times) than he was over 4ypc.
Kevin Smith outperformed him running the ball (by a not insignificant amount) despite running in much less favorable situations.
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
Welcome to the board. If you want some good hyperbole, you should read what people write about Barry Sanders.
MCguidance
Footballguy
I'd rather tear an ACL than face the health issues concussions bring down the line. Now, as a player, you'd have to ask them.cobalt_27 said:
cobalt_27
Footballguy
The point is that extant research is pretty clear that concussions are not tied to long term impairments. The CTE industry has manufactured a lot of paranoia in the absence of any definitive causal link between mild head injuries and progressive syndromes. In fact, most of the literature and neuroscience as a whole rejects these claims.
Agreed. I don't think Barry Jr. sniffs his fathers NFL career. Barry fans are definitely blinded by the name. I don't really see Barry Jr standout at all..
Fat Nick
Footballguy
Link? I'd say that it's pretty clear that head injuries, can be a very debilitating thing, as evident by stories from guys like Tony Dorsett and Leonard Marshall...and those are the ones who have chosen to live with it vs. shooting themselves like Seau. I'm sure there may be an article or two that say otherwise, but I think there's a pretty clear causal link between concussions and SOMETHING bad for your brain long-term.
I'd take ACL all day...you don't hear about Napoleon McCallum or Jamal Anderson shooting themselves or dealing with debilitating mental injuries after their careers are over.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Start with the Zurich conference on concussions in sport, but the literature is too extensive and consistent in its findings thus far that there is no established link between concussions and neurodegenerative illness. You are assuming head injuries are what caused Marshall's suicide or Dorsett's cognitive and psychiatric issues when in fact these outcomes are multi-factorial and involve a whole lot more than concussion history.
