★★★Official 2015 Cincy Bengals-now with more K Webb (1 Viewer)

Well there was that.

Everything's on the table and nothing's on the table.

We have an owner/GM who basically undercuts the pick of the starting QB before the playoff game saying he liked another player (one who won today). (Of course he forgets that really he had eyes for Ryan Mallet, but I digress).

We have a QB that has stopped taking blame for a loss - and in this one he did a lot (not everything) but a lot to help this loss along.

There are other issues here and lesser held opinions lurking that I will get to (like is #18 really worth the contract he's gonna want?)

Oh and Kyle Cook gets a shout out here b/c he hasn't gotten it enough - the middle of our line was a disaster and it starts at center.

Go.

-QG

Cinn Might need to bite the bullet on dalton and move on...

mphtrilogy said:

Cinn Might need to bite the bullet on dalton and move on...

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Not much bullet to bite. It's his contract year.

The question is - who is the alternative? What's out there. A rookie means, well, growing pains again which is a valid question.

-QG

Bumping above the old thread

-QG

mphtrilogy said:

Cinn Might need to bite the bullet on dalton and move on...

Click to expand...

Move on to what?

QuizGuy66 said:

Well there was that.

Everything's on the table and nothing's on the table.

We have an owner/GM who basically undercuts the pick of the starting QB before the playoff game saying he liked another player (one who won today). (Of course he forgets that really he had eyes for Ryan Mallet, but I digress).

We have a QB that has stopped taking blame for a loss - and in this one he did a lot (not everything) but a lot to help this loss along.

There are other issues here and lesser held opinions lurking that I will get to (like is #18 really worth the contract he's gonna want?)

Oh and Kyle Cook gets a shout out here b/c he hasn't gotten it enough - the middle of our line was a disaster and it starts at center.

Go.

-QG

Click to expand...

You pay 18 whatever the #### 18 wants to be paid.

And yeah, the offensive line's performance today was staggeringly bad. Can't remember the last time I've seen that. If I were Dalton, I would have literally forced cook to leave the field in the 3rd quarter. He was that bad.

I believe Johnson, Baby Hawk, and Collins are their top free agents? Mike Brown will draft a QB as Dalton contract leverage. They have some interesting decisions on some players making a lot of money coming up this offseason.

I remember the last time the OL was that bad. It was in the playoffs in Houston.

I ask the 18 question 1) to a little but also thinking about the cost benefit of dumping that much money at the WR position, especially when he gets taken away like he did today (this was not the guy who would contend with Megatron out there today). It' easy to say we should devote 1/6 of the team's cap to a WR, but it'll have big time implications on our depth all around. Today he did not shine, that's for sure.

Why the hell did we go away from BJGE today? He was hitting the holes hard - it was effective just like last time. Gio is wonderful to watch and can make some spectacular plays but I felt like when we fell behind we needed Law Firm's steadiness.

Other thoughts. So what does our line end up looking like next year. Is Whit really a very expensive guard now? You have to think AC (dumb personal foul today) is probably gonna get paid more elsewhere so we're gonna have to probably use 2 picks on the OL.

Man did we miss Geno. One small silver lining is that we'll be getting some injured studs back next year.

-QG

It's time to move on from Marvin. I like the guy, and he's not the root problem, but we've seen plenty of teams who simply needed a change at HC, go on to reach the next level. Dump everyone but Zimmer.

You pay #18 whatever #18 wants to be paid. The kid is simply a top 3 WR right now and you don't let that go. Period.

The OL performance yesterday was truly baffling. After being a certain strength for most of the year, they just looked lost out there. I was highly disappointed.

You need to look at QB early this draft, or FA. Dalton is in his contract year, and I would be very upset if he was re-signed.

How much cap space is left this year to lock down some younger players?

Burfict is going to need to get paid at some point soon.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BdSiiUXCIAIJXWT.jpg:large

cut Dalton, BJGE. shore up the line (if needed? They seemed solid all year) and do everything in your power to keep #18.

Also, firing Lewis may help. Oh, and give Gio the ball. Just give him and #18 the damn ball.

That is all.

QuizGuy66 said:

mphtrilogy said:

Cinn Might need to bite the bullet on dalton and move on...

Click to expand...

Not much bullet to bite. It's his contract year.

The question is - who is the alternative? What's out there. A rookie means, well, growing pains again which is a valid question.

-QG

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I always laugh at these ideas. Some people think starting NFL QBs are just lying around waiting for a phone call. Or that you can just pluck a gem out of college. It's just not that easy. if you have a starting caliber QB, and Dalton is one, you have to keep him. Otherwise you are simply starting over from the ground up. This team is already built.

Any chance they'd go after Mallett now? (probably not, but if the GM liked him then...)

Take a developmental QB, someone like Jimmy Garoppolo if he fell far enough.

ETA: but you keep Andy for another year.

BigJohn said:

It's time to move on from Marvin. I like the guy, and he's not the root problem, but we've seen plenty of teams who simply needed a change at HC, go on to reach the next level. Dump everyone but Zimmer.

..

The OL performance yesterday was truly baffling. After being a certain strength for most of the year, they just looked lost out there. I was highly disappointed.

You need to look at QB early this draft, or FA. Dalton is in his contract year, and I would be very upset if he was re-signed.

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Just an outsider here but the Bengals are always interesting.

I have to say I was a little surprised the HC was not mentioned earlier in the thread. Division titles are nice, but at some point you want to advance into the playoffs. Marv doesn't have one playoff win in all these years? The team is not perfect but it's built. It would not be the first time teams moved on from winning coaches - it happened to Jim Mora twice (once with success by the Colts, the other time a disaster by the Saints) and it happened to Tony Dungy (with TB they got their SB with Gruden, with the Colts he was the guy that came in on the way to a SB).

Comments like the OL suddenly getting run over in the playoffs, that's coaching.

As for Dalton, well if this is where the blame is going in Cincy I'd say it's a mistake. Fumble at the goal line was not Dalton's fault, he was the one who got the ball there. And Green dropped the deep ball.

There is all that skill talent and.... the offense always seems boring when I catch a game.

I read some interesting commentary on Twitter yesterday regarding Marvin Lewis. Basically, some people said his value to the Bengals goes far beyond his record, and that he takes on more responsibility than any other HC in the league outside of Belichick. They also said he is basically the only person preventing Mike Brown from ruining the team again.

Make of that what you will.

I am still in awe over that monumental collapse that I watched yesterday. Talk about getting your hopes up. Had so much going for us, and nothing came of it, but the same old Bengals. Anyways since this is an offseason thread, ill get into that.

1. As others have stated you have to pay AJ.

2. I think you pay Collins in the offseason, Whitworth can't handle the LT spot anymore and Collins is going to cost us a lot less that spending to get a top flight LT, unless we went to the draft, and we really wouldn't know what we are getting.

3. Dalton will be the starter this coming season, I would like to see them draft a QB in the 3rd/4th round, unless someone like Manziel or Bortles fall in the 1st. (i.e. Rodgers or Quinn) -not likely, but could happen. I would like to take a flier in the late rounds on the injured Aaron Murray of Georgia, I think he has what it takes to be a starting NFL-leadership and physical skills.

4. Resign Hawkins, he won't be too expensive.

5. Use the draft for the following positions: LB, S, OL, CB, DL----in that order.

6. Keep Mike Zimmer at all costs-pay him more, Fire Jay Gruden or make it easier for him to take the Redskins HC job. His play calling yesterday was shotty.

7. I don't know what to do about Marvin, I don't think he deserves to be fired, because the Bengals were nothing before him, but he makes it frustrating that we can't at least get over the hump of winning a playoff game. It didn't seem like the Bengals were as fired up as any other team I watched this weekend, they came out flat and it showed in their play-Im sure that has a lot to do with coaching. Maybe they do need a change.

8. They wont do anything with Burfict until they need to, he is making the league minimum, knowing the Bengals, they wont touch that until they have to, but I think he is a huge part of that defense, and needs to be signed long term, he deserves to be paid, if only he would cut out the penalties.

9. I cant wait until Geno and Hall get back, we need a top corner. However Hall cant stay healthy, Pacman is a decent CB2, Newman is getting up there in age and I just don't think Kirkpatrick has what it takes to be an everyday CB, unless he really progresses this offseason going into his 3rd year.

10. I wouldn't mind resigning BJGE as a complimentary back to Gio, but you have to give the reigns to Gio this coming year. We need a bruiser back to compliment, be it BJGE, Bradshaw, Blount, Gerhart.

Autumn Wind said:

I read some interesting commentary on Twitter yesterday regarding Marvin Lewis. Basically, some people said his value to the Bengals goes far beyond his record, and that he takes on more responsibility than any other HC in the league outside of Belichick. They also said he is basically the only person preventing Mike Brown from ruining the team again.

Make of that what you will.

Click to expand...

It reads like truth. The Bengals probably put more control of the roster in the hands of the coaches than nearly any other team. This has been lambasted (and in many senses rightly) as being cheap and skimping on scouting. But the coaches tend to get the players that they want and that should work best for their system. The bigger chunk is something Marvin worked out 3 years ago when he stayed (which was announced with pretty much the worst press conference outside of Florham Park you'll find anywhere).

I'm not sure that Brown is wily enough with the Kaepernick comment to sort of have been putting Gruden on notice (if, say Jerrah had made that comment for the Cowboys the message would've been seen as explicitly clear) but the fact that he said it shows me that a change there is at least possible. I'm sure they'll wait out the NFL head coach hires before making that decision - it'll save Mikey Boy money if someone hires Gruden away after all.

If Katie were fully running the team I'd feel a little bit better about switching coaches (largely b/c I think she'll employ a GM when the time comes).

In the back of my mind I worry about Zim as a head coach, especially here. I think that adding a layer between him and the players probably won't be helpful tbh. If it's push come to shove I'd rather he become HC than leave but I just remember how many good coordinators became HCs and it didn't pan out at all (Coslet, LeBeau come to mind).

I'm a little worried about Whit, partially b/c of the injury and partially b/c he's expressed a marked enthusiasm for being inside and worrying about the pash rush less. I fear he's begun falling off the cliff - as good as the run-blocking was late in the year the pass-blocking became awful.

Unlike others in this thread I am not coming around to Gio as an every down back. He got stuffed worse than classic Law Firm on first downs in that game. I don't love his pass blocking. BJGE was gashing their defense early (he average over 5 yards on his limited carries) and then they put on the shelf - I didn't understand this at all. In the first half of the year he was Mr. 2nd-and-9 but in the last few games he really has been hitting the holes and looking like a whole different player.

After that performance re-signing Geno looks better and better (as we knew it would). I'm not persuaded that Brandon Thompson is a long-term answer as part of that puzzle.

-QG

I haven't said so yet in this thread but there's a part of me that's ready to concede the full-time fullback point to others who beating the John Conner drum. On the one hand, the FB usually plays only a few snaps, especially in this offense. On the other hand when the line isn't getting the job done, a top-flight pass protecting back is a crucial need.

-QG

I disagree plenty with some of Marvin's in-game decisions, but I think he's an excellent evaluator of talent. Yesterday's game was such a kick in the nuts. It may not ALL be his fault, but seeing Andy Dalton's face- whether it be from a highlight (lowlight) or envisioning it- just makes me angry right now. It's going to be interesting to see if any changes are coming, but I sure hope Zimmer stays. I think he lands a HC job this offseason, but I'd certainly rather it be Jay.

QuizGuy66 said:

I haven't said so yet in this thread but there's a part of me that's ready to concede the full-time fullback point to others who beating the John Conner drum. On the one hand, the FB usually plays only a few snaps, especially in this offense. On the other hand when the line isn't getting the job done, a top-flight pass protecting back is a crucial need.

-QG

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They already have that. G. Bernard.

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/01/01/wild-card-bengals-chargers-giovani-bernard/

Hence, Hue’s favorite Gio moment of 2013: In the first quarter of a 42-14 trouncing of Minnesota, Bernard sniffed out linebacker Erin Henderson storming through the A gap and stopped the rusher dead in his tracks. Quarterback Andy Dalton didn’t flinch and tossed up a 29-yard touchdown pass to Green down the right sideline.

Will they give DE Michael Johnson a new deal?

I didn't see Gio pass protect very well on Sunday and it still doesn't answer why they totally abandoned the power running game even when down by just 4.

Gruden's name has been linked to more jobs than Zim (Washington, Tennessee, and I think Detroit) and there's even one reporter who went on a limb saying he's going to be the guy in Washington. Zim's 57 which may be a factor here - my sense is that for whatever weird reason he's gonna get bypassed yet again.

I was not on the Law Firm train at all until the 2nd half of the year. Not saying they have to break out any big for him because of course they don't, just that I'm comfortable with him being here. In my perfect world Gio progresses more (and takes care of the ball better - though I don't really think he had a chance on that fumble yesterday) and it ends up being 2/3 Gio, 1/3 Law Firm - with Law Firm as the closer and the guy to settle things down in the power run sets.

-QG

Quez said:

Will they give DE Michael Johnson a new deal?

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They'll try. They'll almost certainly fail though and I can't imagine the number being the same as what they offered him last year - just too many mouths to feed. Somebody will probably have the capacity to give him a better contract.

I think that's like the result for Collins as well.

-QG

QuizGuy66 said:

I didn't see Gio pass protect very well on Sunday and it still doesn't answer why they totally abandoned the power running game even when down by just 4.

Gruden's name has been linked to more jobs than Zim (Washington, Tennessee, and I think Detroit) and there's even one reporter who went on a limb saying he's going to be the guy in Washington. Zim's 57 which may be a factor here - my sense is that for whatever weird reason he's gonna get bypassed yet again.

I was not on the Law Firm train at all until the 2nd half of the year. Not saying they have to break out any big for him because of course they don't, just that I'm comfortable with him being here. In my perfect world Gio progresses more (and takes care of the ball better - though I don't really think he had a chance on that fumble yesterday) and it ends up being 2/3 Gio, 1/3 Law Firm - with Law Firm as the closer and the guy to settle things down in the power run sets.

-QG

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That was a tough fumble. He was just turning and hadn't secured it yet on a cold wet field. Only his 2nd of the year. I wouldn't call it a problem, just an unfortunate break.

(Gio's had issues on other plays with taking care of the ball. I agree that the one yesterday was more of a tough break/great defensive play)

-QG

Quez said:

Will they give DE Michael Johnson a new deal?

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He wants to be a free agent. When we couldn't extend his contract we extended Atkins and Dunlap.

A few things:

1. You absolutely cannot cut Dalton. Now if you want to draft a 3rd/4th round QB to see if Dalton wilts under pressure or rises up and takes that next step, go for it. But Dalton, for all his faults, has led the Bengals to the playoffs 3 straight years. There are a lot of teams that would love that...sort of. In reality, making the playoffs and losing in the first round is a miserable experience for a franchise. Not many people look back and say "man what a year, we made the playoffs". Dalton became a bigtime passer this year, putting up huge stats. Along the way, he threw 20+ picks however. How to fix that is off-season priority number 1. But trading or cutting him? Please. Let this year play out and see what happens.

2. The coaching staff made some really poor decisions yesterday. BJGE had 2 carries at the start of the second half then never touched the ball again. Also, there was a driving rain, the offensive line couldn't pass protect, Dalton was flustered and BJGE was actually running well! It's not as if the game was ever too far out of reach to give up on the run. Just bad decisions.

Overall, I think Cincy is in good shape. They have all the talent in the world to have a potent offense next year. They need to focus on the offensive line and on the defense. They have had a ton of injuries on defense and still did well. As such, they should be even better next year when those guys come back.

I know this is a tough pill to swallow for Bengals fans, and it should be. The offense collapsed yesterday. But what else are you going to do? Peyton lost a lot of playoff games before he won the big one. Not saying Dalton is going to be anywhere near Peyton, but the "good Andy" has been so good, that you just have to try and put it all together one more time and see what happens.

Seems weird given his statistical success during the season but the Bengals have to bring in some type of quarterback competition for Dalton. Also need to seriously consider firing the coach. The team performance in the playoffs last three years has been ugly.

The defense suffered some bad injuries this year, obviously none as big as Atkins - I love him & think he might've been the difference in this game. As an outsider looking in, I think there are a ton of pieces in place for the Bengals & if I was a fan obviously I'd be upset, but optimistic...

I think this team should go with a DB in the first round, although taking a QB in the 2nd or 3rd wouldn't be a terrible idea. Personally I think Dalton gets one more year and if he can't at least win a playoff game, then that ship sails.

Even though I'm in the "let Andy play out his 4th year and then we'll see camp" officially, what kind of FA QBs are there out there to bring in as an enhanced backup/competition. I guess there's Schaub but I think Andy already knows enough about blowing games that there's not much that Schaub could teach him . I'm really really hoping the Jets keep Sanchez. Like really hoping. Like Mike Brown might not be able to resist if he's out there hoping. But who else - Henne? Vick?!? It's part of the conundrum. I dunno enough about the mid-round QBs to know who might be a real diamond in the rough.

-QG

trogg78 said:

Quez said:

Will they give DE Michael Johnson a new deal?

Click to expand...

He wants to be a free agent. When we couldn't extend his contract we extended Atkins and Dunlap.

Click to expand...

I don't see Michael Johnson being on the Bengals next year.

QuizGuy66 said:

Even though I'm in the "let Andy play out his 4th year and then we'll see camp" officially, what kind of FA QBs are there out there to bring in as an enhanced backup/competition. I guess there's Schaub but I think Andy already knows enough about blowing games that there's not much that Schaub could teach him . I'm really really hoping the Jets keep Sanchez. Like really hoping. Like Mike Brown might not be able to resist if he's out there hoping. But who else - Henne? Vick?!? It's part of the conundrum. I dunno enough about the mid-round QBs to know who might be a real diamond in the rough.

-QG

Click to expand...

Mike Vick would be interesting, but as much as I hate to say it, I think Dalton is a lot better off for this team than any other FA QB out there.

Most notable FA QB's: Henne, Vick, Josh McCown, Schaub, Flynn, Freeman.

Jordan Palmer?? j/k.

I was shocked! I mean Shocked (!) at the non-fight in the Bengals at home in JANUARY...I think the common denominator is Lewis....After a lot of time goes by it's time for a change. Just ask ANY Charger fan. Rivers was reborn with a new "outlook" I think Dalton would too. The long ball is not lost in this league and Dalton "seems" to have it... add Green and Gio and well..

QuizGuy66 said:

Even though I'm in the "let Andy play out his 4th year and then we'll see camp" officially, what kind of FA QBs are there out there to bring in as an enhanced backup/competition. I guess there's Schaub but I think Andy already knows enough about blowing games that there's not much that Schaub could teach him . I'm really really hoping the Jets keep Sanchez. Like really hoping. Like Mike Brown might not be able to resist if he's out there hoping. But who else - Henne? Vick?!? It's part of the conundrum. I dunno enough about the mid-round QBs to know who might be a real diamond in the rough.

-QG

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After a nights sleep I really don't think we can cut Andy. He has played brilliantly in a lot of games this year. Imagine what could be if he took it to the next level and stopped choking on the big stage. At least we need to see what he does the last year of his contract. A part of me can't help but think we should tale advantage of his collapse yesterday and offer him a new contract on the cheap. He must be feeling some job unsecurity so maybe he would sign for something like $25-30 mio for five years? If he takes the next step that would be incredible cheap, otherwise he'll be our well paid backup. Meanwhile we take a lottery ticket in the 3rd or 4th to see if something good develops

Timmay said:

trogg78 said:

Quez said:

Will they give DE Michael Johnson a new deal?

Click to expand...

He wants to be a free agent. When we couldn't extend his contract we extended Atkins and Dunlap.

Click to expand...

I don't see Michael Johnson being on the Bengals next year.

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This.

I hope nobody is seriously suggesting we CUT Dalton. He has 1 year left on his contract.

IMO, draft a QB in the 2-4 round range and groom them to replace. If Bortles falls in the 1st, I would jump on him in a heartbeat.

I kinda like Fales / Mettenberger ^

Danish Bengal said:

QuizGuy66 said:

Even though I'm in the "let Andy play out his 4th year and then we'll see camp" officially, what kind of FA QBs are there out there to bring in as an enhanced backup/competition. I guess there's Schaub but I think Andy already knows enough about blowing games that there's not much that Schaub could teach him . I'm really really hoping the Jets keep Sanchez. Like really hoping. Like Mike Brown might not be able to resist if he's out there hoping. But who else - Henne? Vick?!? It's part of the conundrum. I dunno enough about the mid-round QBs to know who might be a real diamond in the rough.

-QG

Click to expand...

After a nights sleep I really don't think we can cut Andy. He has played brilliantly in a lot of games this year. Imagine what could be if he took it to the next level and stopped choking on the big stage. At least we need to see what he does the last year of his contract. A part of me can't help but think we should tale advantage of his collapse yesterday and offer him a new contract on the cheap. He must be feeling some job unsecurity so maybe he would sign for something like $25-30 mio for five years? If he takes the next step that would be incredible cheap, otherwise he'll be our well paid backup. Meanwhile we take a lottery ticket in the 3rd or 4th to see if something good develops

Click to expand...

pretty sure dalton's not signing for 5 million a year

Danish Bengal said:

QuizGuy66 said:

Even though I'm in the "let Andy play out his 4th year and then we'll see camp" officially, what kind of FA QBs are there out there to bring in as an enhanced backup/competition. I guess there's Schaub but I think Andy already knows enough about blowing games that there's not much that Schaub could teach him . I'm really really hoping the Jets keep Sanchez. Like really hoping. Like Mike Brown might not be able to resist if he's out there hoping. But who else - Henne? Vick?!? It's part of the conundrum. I dunno enough about the mid-round QBs to know who might be a real diamond in the rough.

-QG

Click to expand...

After a nights sleep I really don't think we can cut Andy. He has played brilliantly in a lot of games this year. Imagine what could be if he took it to the next level and stopped choking on the big stage. At least we need to see what he does the last year of his contract. A part of me can't help but think we should tale advantage of his collapse yesterday and offer him a new contract on the cheap. He must be feeling some job unsecurity so maybe he would sign for something like $25-30 mio for five years? If he takes the next step that would be incredible cheap, otherwise he'll be our well paid backup. Meanwhile we take a lottery ticket in the 3rd or 4th to see if something good develops

Click to expand...

I know we'll probably never know for sure if Gruden called the deep ball on that 4th down or if Dalton audibled. Body language notwithstanding if Dalton called that on his own it at least shows a degree a self-confidence.

Dalton/Cutler/Romo - there's a reason these guys get kept. There's probably a dozen or so teams that would take these guys over what they got (if they are looking to win a game today) and the teams are just too developed to do otherwise. If this were the NBA we'd be the Atlanta Hawks. I did an analysis in other thread that broke down all the other "alternatives" to Dalton that theoretically were out there. Boiling it down very fast - most QBs were unattainable at all (your Brees, Brady types), others (say Locker, or *ulp* Gabbert or Ponder) would have required us passing on AJ Green, and most others were demonstrably worse. Only 2 even remotely plausible thoughts existed: 1) Taking Wilson at #53 (the Devon Still pick - the Seahawks took him at #75) or trading up ahead of that psychically and giving up other picks - and basically giving up on Dalton after 1 year. The other was, of course, Kaepernick - and who among us would, in an honest moment, say we'd trust Mike Brown's judgment over Gruden at that point?

My guess is that Dalton rolls the dice, Flacco style. If he's able to break through and actually win a playoff game or two, well, I'm sure we'll be glad to pay him. If not - we'll either get him cheap or more likely move on. Though if he's piled up 40 or so wins in 4 seasons with the kind of numbers he's gotten there will be a team that will take a shot on him and "fixing" him - not at a huge number, probably at a number that would surprise (but also would have an overall lower risk).

-QG

A little history. In January 2004, after his 3rd season in the NFL (though he hardly played in the first), Drew Brees had these career numbers:

10 wins and 17 losses

29 touchdowns and 31 interceptions

59.4% completions

Average 200.46 yards per game (including the game he came in relief in '01)

San Diego drafted Rivers after that 3rd season. They traded Brees away (rather infamously now it can be said, those Rivers hasn't been that bad) after his 5th season in San Diego. His playoff record in San Diego was 0-1.

At this point, Dalton is two years older than Brees was after his 3rd NFL season, it's true but anyhow, here's his numbers:

30 wins and 18 losses (not counting the infamous 0-3)

80 touchdowns and 49 interceptions

60.9% completions

Average 236.7 yards per game

Someone will be thinking of that if we ditch him after year 4, I assure you.

-QG

Whatever we end up doing at QB, can we please utilize the TE? We have two of them ya know....

Two 1st round talents and they were criminally underused this past year.

Gresham-46 catches

Eifert-39 catches

For a team with a struggling QB.....whether it's accuracy, experience, or he gets the yips in big games, you have to utilize the TE more, especially when you draft two of them in the first round. Use Gresham while you have him. He's a FA after 2014. I know he's a knucklehead, but he still has talent. If he's not in the plans, time to trade him and restock your line.

Your skill positions are overflowing with talent. AJ, Sanu, Marvin, Hawk, even sanzenbacker can ball. Get more creative getting the ball in their hands. Get AJ in the slot more, move him around. Yes, he can beat any cb one on one on streaks, but when teams are taking him away with Cover 2, time to move him around more. If it's not working, you aren't moving him around enough.

Pittsburgh and baltimore won't be down forever.......need to strike while your window is open. Already starting to close a little bit.....

This draft, or FA, you have to target some depth at LB. You were lucky Burfect made the whole year playing. He was nicked up plenty.

Need to address the O Line and DE. I have no idea what Hunt will bring to the table, but if Stephon Tuitt or Nix are available at our pick, snatch em up, then target O-Line needs. I'd love a rotation of thompson, peko, Atkins, still, Nix.

complete list of FA's.

DE Michael Johnson (UFA)
OT Anthony Collins (UFA)
WR Andrew Hawkins (RFA)
S Chris Crocker (UFA)
S Taylor Mays (UFA)
WR Brandon Tate (UFA)
CB Brandon Ghee (UFA)
LB Vincent Rey (RFA)
OG Mike Pollak (UFA)
TE Alex Smith (UFA)
WR Dan Sanzenbacher (RFA)
OT Dennis Roland (UFA)
P Zoltan Mesko (UFA)
DT Ogemdi Nwagbo (UFA

Thanks for posting the FA list. Random note - Crocker looked a lot better this time around IMO.

I still cross ny fingers when Tate does a return but he has taken better care of the ball this year.

Collins will tough to keep, MJ almost impossible.

Glad Rey is restricted - he's a guy who has stepped up this year.

All in all a manageable list.

-QG

One thing is for sure - after this deal I think this will be a longer thread than last year's.

-QG

Gruden seems to be the front runner for Washington. Crosses fingers - he gets a chance and we get the new OC we want

-QG

Didn't realize it, but read that Marvin Lewis is the first HC in NFL history to start with an 0-5 record.

Also, I think Matt Ryan lost his first three playoff games (?).

QuizGuy66 said:

Well there was that.

Everything's on the table and nothing's on the table.

We have an owner/GM who basically undercuts the pick of the starting QB before the playoff game saying he liked another player (one who won today). (Of course he forgets that really he had eyes for Ryan Mallet, but I digress).

We have a QB that has stopped taking blame for a loss - and in this one he did a lot (not everything) but a lot to help this loss along.

There are other issues here and lesser held opinions lurking that I will get to (like is #18 really worth the contract he's gonna want?)

Oh and Kyle Cook gets a shout out here b/c he hasn't gotten it enough - the middle of our line was a disaster and it starts at center.

Go.

-QG

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So many tough decisions IMO. Before I get into specifics about players, the main problem this week and really in the games we lost was turnovers. It is getting tiring to try to overcome that each week. You could also add consistency to that. I know a lot of that is Dalton, but I'm also sick of Dalton having a bad game meaning that AJ runs half-### and catch the ball and Gio drops passes and puts the ball on the ground, etc, etc. When things start to go badly, the whole team seems to implode.

It sounds like Gruden may move on and that is fine with me. I don't think he deserved fired or anything, but I haven't been overly impressed either. I have been surprised all year that all we heard about for Dalton was how many weapons he had, but somehow the same case wasn't used against Gruden. If our weapons are as good as people seem to think, then Gruden should be held accountable as well. I'm starting to question it though. Some of our skill guys are good, but it looks like all of them really need Andy to play well to do anything. That makes them just guys IMO. Tons of teams have skill guys that can make plays when the QB is on. Maybe guys like AJ, Sanu, Eifert, Gio, Gresham have been overrated relative to their production and Dalton/Gruden just haven't been good enough to win anyway. I really don't know.

Of course with all that said, the main question is what to do with Dalton. I believe he cost himself a ton of money on Sunday. I thought they would go ahead with the extension, but I now I think they may wait and see. I would at least consider drafting another QB in either case. Our backup situation isn't good enough and if Dalton struggles this year, having a plan B would be pretty important.

We are going to lose a lot in free agency and possibly even cut some good players (Hall?). That is OK with me. We're starting to get into being a good enough team that we lose good players to attrition because we can't sign everyone. It's a good problem to have and the Bengals have done their best to keep their own and I'm sure they will continue to do so. Losing Johnson and Collins seems like a lock. I'm not sure about some of the others, but those are 2 spots I think we can assume need filled.

The center position needs addressed (again) and I think we are getting pretty old at 2 positions they value (OT and CB). I would assume those are the areas they look for in the draft (besides maybe QB).

If Gruden leaves, I think Hue Jackson has a chance to be promoted. If Zimmer leaves, I think they would try to get Kevin Coyle back here. I am still a supporter of Lewis, but I will admit this one hurt. Consistency of performance falls largely on the head coach and rising to the occassion of a big game could also be on the coach. Both have been weak points for a while.

The list of issues is long, but let's keep perspective. We've become a pretty consistent playoff team and we should get our best player back healthy for next year. It's hard to stay good for long, so let's not take it for granted. I am just as ready as any of you for that playoff win though.

I'm curious about all the seeming ambivalence regarding Gruden's tenure from you guys. After the disastrous run under Bratkowski, it would seem to me that JG ought to be a pretty well accepted OC. In his three years, it appears to me that the Bengals' offense has made tremendous strides, including grooming a second-round QB into a 3 time playoff team. I understand the poor showing vs the Chargers, but why all the discontent?

pablito said:

I'm curious about all the seeming ambivalence regarding Gruden's tenure from you guys. After the disastrous run under Bratkowski, it would seem to me that JG ought to be a pretty well accepted OC. In his three years, it appears to me that the Bengals' offense has made tremendous strides, including grooming a second-round QB into a 3 time playoff team. I understand the poor showing vs the Chargers, but why all the discontent?

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2 driving factors....

1. The perception that this team has a ton of talented weapons and no idea how to use them.

2. Offensive no-shows is most of our big games during his tenure.

Looks like Gruden is officially gone. Everyone will have their own opinion on that, but the most important thing is that is 1 team marked off the list that won't be taking Zimmer.