BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Pretty nice job getting out of jams tonight when he clearly didn't have his best stuff. Seeing some grown up pitching from him this year.
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***Detroit Tigers thread: 1st pick yet again, this is not fun*** (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Doctor Detroit
- Start date
tri-man 47
Footballguy
jon_mx said:
Gotta be depressing ...you lose 3 and hope you have a shot for at least one win, but then you see you're facing Verlander.
Such a great year for Porcello ...happy to see it.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
The Tigers bullpen - 2nd worst ERA in MLB - has thrown 18.0 consecutive scoreless innings and has a 0.70 ERA (25.2IP/2ER) since July 2.
5th most wins at the All Star Break in Tigers history, and the most since 2006. If they win tomorrow they'll have a bigger lead going into the ASG than the 1984 team.
5th most wins at the All Star Break in Tigers history, and the most since 2006. If they win tomorrow they'll have a bigger lead going into the ASG than the 1984 team.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
The division is probably worse than I thought it was going to be, but I will admit, I didn't think they would be seven games up at the all-star break.
Also you realize you just jinxed the bullpen amiright?
MAC_32
Footballguy
reminiscent of boesch's first half of 2010 and 2011.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Boesch was never a highly regarded prospect, he was ranked below Cale Iorg, Scott Sizemore, and Casper Wells in the Tigers org.
JD Martinez was ranked ahead of Jose Altuve and right behind Springer and Singleton in the Astros U25 rankings. In six minor league seasons he has a .942 OPS or about 170 points higher than Boesch, and he won't be at the magic number of 1500 PAs in the majors until next year. Scouts thought he would hot for a high average with gap power and be a slightly above average OF.
Martinez isn't going to have an OPS over 1000 but he'll finish well ahead of the Boesch career year of .799. His BABIP is too high but his change of plate approach has meant more line drives and fly balls and less grounders. His ISO is elite, and if he keeps hitting the ball hard he'll play a ton. But he's definitely going to regress some, certainly.
JD Martinez was ranked ahead of Jose Altuve and right behind Springer and Singleton in the Astros U25 rankings. In six minor league seasons he has a .942 OPS or about 170 points higher than Boesch, and he won't be at the magic number of 1500 PAs in the majors until next year. Scouts thought he would hot for a high average with gap power and be a slightly above average OF.
Martinez isn't going to have an OPS over 1000 but he'll finish well ahead of the Boesch career year of .799. His BABIP is too high but his change of plate approach has meant more line drives and fly balls and less grounders. His ISO is elite, and if he keeps hitting the ball hard he'll play a ton. But he's definitely going to regress some, certainly.
Most of it is on JV, but the bullpen came in for 2/3rd of the 7th and gave up two walks and two hits. Bullpen is the issue that has to be addressed.
Doctor Detroit
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Jake Thompson pitching in futures game now.
And he's facing Moya!!!! What kind of #### is that???
And he's facing Moya!!!! What kind of #### is that???
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MAC_32
Footballguy
probably a shorter term higher dollar per year prove it deal.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Not sure why it matters. It's also not really a two year sample size, take a look at his Aug-Oct numbers in 2013. They were awesome.
Cliff Lee, Sabathia, Cain, and Tanaka all make more than Verlander does this year. What would Tanaka sign for after a Tommy John surgery? What about Sabathia who really hasn't been good in awhile? I didn't hear anyone complain when Verlander was resigned, everyone was happy then thinking it was a good move. Not sure why people worry about it. So they would sign Scherzer to the same contract and maybe he has a rough year or two? People seem like they'll complain just to have something to complain about.
He was good today, just had a rough 7th.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Not bashing...DD, you are a stat man. Look at JVs numbers the last season and a half. A slump is a month or so, this is more than that. Right handed batters are hitting more than .320 in the last year.
Tommy John is much different. Tanaka was performing before injury. Nobody would sign Lee, CC or Cain for that kind of cash now without injury. Is JV in the same boat?
I would love to see the JV of the 2-3 years ago but not sure we will. JIm Price and DD who see way more that we do say his "arsenal and command" are just not the same.
Just asking what he command right now on the open market like Max.
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Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Well his baseline dollar value last year was $26 million, which was 4th highest in his career. This year is his worse by far, but people looking for a culprit aren't looking in the right place.
All of his pitch numbers are normal though. He actually has better line drive rates this year than he has in either of the last two (6% which is not insignificant), his ground ball, fly ball, and FB/HR ratio are all normal. He's throwing more sliders and more curve balls, he's throwing more two-seamers than he has in the past. His batted balls in play number is a little high, and his left on base percentage is the second worse in his career which may say something about pitching from the stretch.
His velocity is fine, 94.4 on the fastball the last five games and 93.3 for the season. The 93.3 is down from 94 last year, but nothing out of the ordinary. His other pitch speeds are all in line.
What is the one negative thing that stands out? K/BB ratio. He's walking more than normal and he's not striking out guys. It's control that is the issue, the pinpoint control he had 2009-2012 and the second half a year ago is not there. He's also having his worst home numbers in his career, he's actually better on the road this year. Teams are making him throw strikes, fouling off a bunch of stuff, and he's not getting the called third strikes like he used to. So that builds up pitch counts, he's pitching with guys on base all the time, and he's unable to clear those bases with Ks as he's done in the past.
You don't have to throw 100 to be a good K pitcher. Control is the name of the game and Verlander has lacked it this year as well as in the first half a year ago. It's mechanical, maybe a little mental also. No way he's pulled in a situation like he was today two years ago, Ausmus didn't hesitate today.
I think there is room to worry here but not panic. He has admitted cruising through the season last year and this year and he's thrown a ton of pitches the past four years. Some physical fatigue might be there, some mental too. But his velocity is fine and his advanced metrics really don't have a lot of alarm bells. Walking guys, too many pitches to batters, not getting guys looking. I think he can fix all that.
All of his pitch numbers are normal though. He actually has better line drive rates this year than he has in either of the last two (6% which is not insignificant), his ground ball, fly ball, and FB/HR ratio are all normal. He's throwing more sliders and more curve balls, he's throwing more two-seamers than he has in the past. His batted balls in play number is a little high, and his left on base percentage is the second worse in his career which may say something about pitching from the stretch.
His velocity is fine, 94.4 on the fastball the last five games and 93.3 for the season. The 93.3 is down from 94 last year, but nothing out of the ordinary. His other pitch speeds are all in line.
What is the one negative thing that stands out? K/BB ratio. He's walking more than normal and he's not striking out guys. It's control that is the issue, the pinpoint control he had 2009-2012 and the second half a year ago is not there. He's also having his worst home numbers in his career, he's actually better on the road this year. Teams are making him throw strikes, fouling off a bunch of stuff, and he's not getting the called third strikes like he used to. So that builds up pitch counts, he's pitching with guys on base all the time, and he's unable to clear those bases with Ks as he's done in the past.
You don't have to throw 100 to be a good K pitcher. Control is the name of the game and Verlander has lacked it this year as well as in the first half a year ago. It's mechanical, maybe a little mental also. No way he's pulled in a situation like he was today two years ago, Ausmus didn't hesitate today.
I think there is room to worry here but not panic. He has admitted cruising through the season last year and this year and he's thrown a ton of pitches the past four years. Some physical fatigue might be there, some mental too. But his velocity is fine and his advanced metrics really don't have a lot of alarm bells. Walking guys, too many pitches to batters, not getting guys looking. I think he can fix all that.
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MAC_32
Footballguy
His swgstrk is the lowest it has been since 2008. O swing since 2009. He isn't missing bats, they aren't chasing as often, and his walks are up too. In zone contact is up too. He has had a couple of seasons that are close, but it's still highest since 2006.
I don't think he is quite this bad, but I am wary he is not much better. I'm not dropping him yet, but if he can't navigate the lineup the royals put out there today it's really hard to start him vs anybody until he turns over a few solid ones in a row and shows some signs of correcting those problems.
I don't think he is quite this bad, but I am wary he is not much better. I'm not dropping him yet, but if he can't navigate the lineup the royals put out there today it's really hard to start him vs anybody until he turns over a few solid ones in a row and shows some signs of correcting those problems.
MAC_32
Footballguy
standard small sample size just like May, but the pen has been pretty good the last couple weeks.
Greco
Footballguy
Even with the recent improvement in performance, it is still one of the worst pens in the league. It looks like the Angels are going to get Houston Street.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Advanced Stat Alert: Tigers on pace to win exactly 94.3516483516 games this year.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Check out the new starter rotation. The young skipper was saying he wanted to move things around a little going forward.
http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/schedule/sortable.jsp?c_id=det
http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/schedule/sortable.jsp?c_id=det
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Robbie Ray get a start in the double header?
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Gopher State
Footballguy
miggy was the first tiger since Lou Whitaker in 1986 to hit a home run in the summer All Star Classic, maybe a sign he hit a bunch of HR's in the second half
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Chicks dig the long ball.
71 XBH & 137 RBIs last year
87 XBH & 134 RBIs this year (extrapolated)
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Tried to find a pattern for why this particular order. I know the young skipper wanted to separate Max & JV, but I think I found the actual reason.
Beginning with Porcello's first start start the whole rotation will be pitching in alphabetical order.
Doctor Detroit
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Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
ungood for him sure the Tigers? they have a small logjam in the OF anyway with JD being hot.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Dirks is a better fielder than Martinez or Davis and he's a left-handed bat which the OF has none of. Also I don't think we can expect JD to keep hitting like he has, although most of the lost at bats would be Davis and hopefully Hunter.
Doctor Detroit
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And the reason is because he's likely going to be on the trade block to net a reliever.
Gopher State
Footballguy
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
oof
Raburn kills us no less. :X
Raburn kills us no less. :X
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Al Al doesn't seem like he'll ever be a guy to trust. No doubt they need another arm, I'm hoping for Soria.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Right sized contract, wrong price trade is my sense. DD has less than 2 weeks to come up with something.
Have not had too many baseball related thoughts in the last five days. Buried at work, took my kids to see a modern dance performance tonight, toes will be in the sand for the next couple days.
Doctor Detroit
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Ray, Thompson, and Travis are probably off limits. Crawford, McCann and Moya are probably guys they'd like to keep but would trade with the right offer. They aren't giving up a ton to get Benoit, Soria or whoever. Will depend on what other teams are doing, just about every team in contention can use a good reliever so the sellers have the upper hand.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
About time some others on this forum started seeing the Al Al meltdowns. He had been terrible when all the chips are on the table.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Oh I have seen them, I complained about him a lot last year. He's got great stuff but the walks and the homers make him a liability, and that's why he's not pitching in a ton of high-leverage spots this year. Leyland just didn't use guys he didn't trust, Ausmus doesn't use them in tough spots. He tried tonight and failed. As much as you love him coming on and getting the first two guys on strikes, is as much as you hate him for making a two strike mistake that gave away the game.
He's a one inning or multiple out guy when the time is right, but not in a pinch. Still a guy to have on the roster, but he's just not dependable and it doesn't seem he ever will be.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
AA is puzzling, he was 1 pitch away from striking out the side and his stuff looked unhittable. I think every hitter knows by now they are getting a slider with 2 strikes, it is just if they can hit it or not. With his fastball hitting 95 last night there is no way to catch up with it if you are looking for the slider. Then of course he hangs a slider. If he threw a high hard one the inning is over.
Soria or Benoit will be a Tiger soon. I am thinking Benoit since he could walk into the clubhouse and fit right back in. They need a guy who can close when Nathan goes haywire.
Gopher State
Footballguy
Be interesting to see what this VerHagen kid has for stuff today. The Tiger minor league system must be loaded with talented young pitchers. I wonder if their showing him off for a potential trade material for bull pen help.
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Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
68Ks in 110 innings in the minors. 6-6 230, I was expecting a K an inning type pitcher.
Gopher State
Footballguy
4k in five innings, 3bb didn't help his causeDa Guru said:
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Zach McAllister is horrifically bad, and they can't do anything but walk against him.
