Suicide (1 Viewer)

I just received a call from our HR department that one of my former employees was found dead in his apartment. We don't have confirmation on cause of death, but I suspect suicide. 

He started with us about 2 months ago. Older guy in his mid 50's. Not married, but spoke about having a girlfriend. Very easy going guy, hard worker, never late, never complained about anything. Last I saw him was on the 5th of July when he was leaving work (I didn't see him the 6th, but he did work that day). He called in sick on the 9th, 10th, and 11th, but he didn't talk to me, he called and talked to someone else. I tried to reach him on the 11th to see how he was doing and to remind him that we need a doctor's note any time someone misses 3 days in a row. He still didn't call me, instead choosing to call another employee to say he wasn't coming in. At the end of the week, HR instructed me to send him an email instructing him that he has to call me as soon as possible. Failure to do so would could lead to termination. Still nothing. On Sunday the 15th, he attempted to call his coworker again to say he wouldn't be in on Monday. He was instructed to call me. Which he did. He said he was really sick and was going to see the doctor the next day. I told him I hope he feels better and to give me a call once he sees the doctor. That's the last I spoke to him. He didn't show up for work Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday and didn't contact myself or HR. The decision was made to terminate employment for job abandonment. HR sent the letter out on Thursday. On Friday, his son contacted me asking if I had heard from his Dad. I put him in touch with HR. Later that day the police did a wellness check at his apartment and he was fine. I was relieved but confused. Today, they did another check. Had to break down the door and found him dead.

Looking back on the events, I should have recognized the signs. He recently applied for a promotion and during the interview process we questioned his job hopping history. He probably struggled with mental illness and may have lost those jobs the same way he lost this one. We have zero cost programs to help people. It just never crossed my mind that this happy go lucky guy, who loved to fish, tell jokes, and was always happy, would need any help. I hope he's finally at peace. 

KCitons said:

I just received a call from our HR department that one of my former employees was found dead in his apartment. We don't have confirmation on cause of death, but I suspect suicide. 

He started with us about 2 months ago. Older guy in his mid 50's. Not married, but spoke about having a girlfriend. Very easy going guy, hard worker, never late, never complained about anything. Last I saw him was on the 5th of July when he was leaving work (I didn't see him the 6th, but he did work that day). He called in sick on the 9th, 10th, and 11th, but he didn't talk to me, he called and talked to someone else. I tried to reach him on the 11th to see how he was doing and to remind him that we need a doctor's note any time someone misses 3 days in a row. He still didn't call me, instead choosing to call another employee to say he wasn't coming in. At the end of the week, HR instructed me to send him an email instructing him that he has to call me as soon as possible. Failure to do so would could lead to termination. Still nothing. On Sunday the 15th, he attempted to call his coworker again to say he wouldn't be in on Monday. He was instructed to call me. Which he did. He said he was really sick and was going to see the doctor the next day. I told him I hope he feels better and to give me a call once he sees the doctor. That's the last I spoke to him. He didn't show up for work Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday and didn't contact myself or HR. The decision was made to terminate employment for job abandonment. HR sent the letter out on Thursday. On Friday, his son contacted me asking if I had heard from his Dad. I put him in touch with HR. Later that day the police did a wellness check at his apartment and he was fine. I was relieved but confused. Today, they did another check. Had to break down the door and found him dead.

Looking back on the events, I should have recognized the signs. He recently applied for a promotion and during the interview process we questioned his job hopping history. He probably struggled with mental illness and may have lost those jobs the same way he lost this one. We have zero cost programs to help people. It just never crossed my mind that this happy go lucky guy, who loved to fish, tell jokes, and was always happy, would need any help. I hope he's finally at peace. 

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i guess there's nothing to say......

with our indulgence of so much personal eccentricity, it gets harder & harder to tell who's styling, fetishing, hystericizing or actually struggling

KCitons said:

I just received a call from our HR department that one of my former employees was found dead in his apartment. We don't have confirmation on cause of death, but I suspect suicide. 

He started with us about 2 months ago. Older guy in his mid 50's. Not married, but spoke about having a girlfriend. Very easy going guy, hard worker, never late, never complained about anything. Last I saw him was on the 5th of July when he was leaving work (I didn't see him the 6th, but he did work that day). He called in sick on the 9th, 10th, and 11th, but he didn't talk to me, he called and talked to someone else. I tried to reach him on the 11th to see how he was doing and to remind him that we need a doctor's note any time someone misses 3 days in a row. He still didn't call me, instead choosing to call another employee to say he wasn't coming in. At the end of the week, HR instructed me to send him an email instructing him that he has to call me as soon as possible. Failure to do so would could lead to termination. Still nothing. On Sunday the 15th, he attempted to call his coworker again to say he wouldn't be in on Monday. He was instructed to call me. Which he did. He said he was really sick and was going to see the doctor the next day. I told him I hope he feels better and to give me a call once he sees the doctor. That's the last I spoke to him. He didn't show up for work Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday and didn't contact myself or HR. The decision was made to terminate employment for job abandonment. HR sent the letter out on Thursday. On Friday, his son contacted me asking if I had heard from his Dad. I put him in touch with HR. Later that day the police did a wellness check at his apartment and he was fine. I was relieved but confused. Today, they did another check. Had to break down the door and found him dead.

Looking back on the events, I should have recognized the signs. He recently applied for a promotion and during the interview process we questioned his job hopping history. He probably struggled with mental illness and may have lost those jobs the same way he lost this one. We have zero cost programs to help people. It just never crossed my mind that this happy go lucky guy, who loved to fish, tell jokes, and was always happy, would need any help. I hope he's finally at peace. 

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You definitely can't blame yourself.

I find it a little odd that he would apply for a promotion after only being at a job for 2 months.  Was he overqualified for the position he was in?  

eoMMan said:

You definitely can't blame yourself.

I find it a little odd that he would apply for a promotion after only being at a job for 2 months.  Was he overqualified for the position he was in?  

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He wasn't necessarily overqualified for his position. He had a minimal amount of management experience a few years back. The promotion was within our department. We suggest that anyone, interested in moving up within the organization, to apply for promotions to get experience with the process and develop those skills. He had a great attitude and embraced the process. We even talked to him about interest in a similar position in a different department if this one wasn't the right fit. He said he wasn't interested in that.

I spoke to my boss and our Director of HR today. I suggested that we not wait for people to ask for help in dealing with this. We work for a very giving organization that helps people. We have free services available for anyone at any time. They both agreed and we are going to bring someone in to be available for them to talk to about what happened. I've been with them for a year and have noticed that we don't do anything proactive to make people aware. I think this has to change moving forward. I would like to see more reminders of the services we have available. Not just a small poster on the employee bulletin board. It should be talked about more often at meetings and discussed openly instead of waiting for signs before trying to get someone help. 

I don't know. Maybe I'm trying to make sense of a situation that makes no sense. I'd like to think the least we can do for him is try to help someone else. Even if we never know we did. 

brettdj said:

I am in the same situation.  My father did it at the end of March.  My son(10) has had some of the worst of it.  I get upset with him every time I hear about another one. 

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It's my Fathers birthday today and I am still mad at him.

brettdj said:

It's my Fathers birthday today and I am still mad at him.

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Because he did it to hurt you? Because he did it without thinking how much it would hurt you, your son & others? Or just because he did it? Why?

brettdj said:

It's my Fathers birthday today and I am still mad at him.

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wikkidpissah said:

Because he did it to hurt you? Because he did it without thinking how much it would hurt you, your son & others? Or just because he did it? Why?

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No, Yes, Yes.  I feel he took the easy way out.  He had new medical conditions that were difficult.  I thought he was a stronger man than that.  I feel he did not even try.

brettdj said:

No, Yes, Yes.  I feel he took the easy way out.  He had new medical conditions that were difficult.  I thought he was a stronger man than that.  I feel he did not even try.

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Not trying to mess with your head and, if you wanna take it off the pg, we can.

What % of people who kill themselves do you think probably had a damn good reason?

My dad has alluded to if what he has is really PLS then he's not going to go through it. Neuro says stroke even though MRI was clear, another said possible PLS. While I don't want him to off himself, I can understand at his age of not wanting to slowly become a cripple and die.

I don't consider it an easy way out. Health conditions can be a #####. Some can handle it and want to live to the end in misery for their family like some stage 4 cancer folks I know while it's too much physically,  emotionally and mentally for others to hold on. It's not like someone who has hit rock bottom depressed but has a chance with treatment and meds.

Imo it would be selfish of us kids to beg dad to hold on if he gets to where his quality of life is null. It's his life to do what he wants with it no matter hlw much we'd be saddened. 

I'm not advocating suicide nor could I see myself assisting. But I have compassion for those who simply can't do it anymore.

My first cousin who was close in age to me hung himself a month ago or so.  Depression runs in my family.  I'm still surprised he did it. 

A young person in my son’s class committed suicide recently.  Out of respect for the family I’m not going to share any details but I’m unbelievably sad for the family and my son.  My son appears to be taking it ok and we’ve talked to him about it several times to help him process it but he’s only 13 and if I as a 43 year old can’t understand it, I know he can’t.  

Finally got around to watching this.  I recommend it.  And the channel that made it, in general, but also the video itself.

Content warning: in-depth discussion of suicide and mental illness.

Henry Ford said:

Finally got around to watching this.  I recommend it.  And the channel that made it, in general, but also the video itself.

Content warning: in-depth discussion of suicide and mental illness.

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More harm than good to my mind. Whatever benefit a person may gain from the information & commonality of the performer is overriden by the permission it gives auditors to take comfort in feeling badly. The courage to oppose one's impulses is as necessary to good mental health as identifying one's danger factors. Because of mistakes by those who've treated & taught the nature of behavior & emotion up til now, what you have going on inside you is going to require work, learning, courage to overcome. Answers necessarily can't be based on being less courageous, which the young man in the video appears to be enabling.

There is but one reason behind suicide: taking life personally. Human beings take life personally almost 100% of the time and doing so sets off alarms in our pre-human behavioral structures that our incredible upper brains cannot govern on their own. Systematic external structure must be employed for effective response. One is simply not required to take anything personally - we just do.

It really is that simple, but the rest of the world is not looking at it that way. Each person is looking to justify what they think, how they feel, that which they know. Sorry, but that's taking life personally.

One can and may live without taking  life personally at all, or at least can know when they've set off alarms by doing so and let them pass as tho a drill, like one did in elementary school. Those who've read me discuss personal weather on these boards know i consider it comparable to gas, cramps, aches in the body and require little but enduring the symptoms reasonably and practicing sensible first-aid. Without reacting to alarms all the time, one can learn what one is looking for in their interactions and introspection and see how personally they indeed are taking life and, soon enough, taking life personally becomes an anachronism.

Unfortunately, though i can teach this to individuals and have helped plenty of folk stay above the Mendoza Line and occasionally lead their leagues in mental equilibrium, i'm not good enough at teaching folks to teach it because i have yet to completely surround the subject enough to overcome my lack of standing as a teacher (and i cant find enough female & LGBT students to round out my theories for all). But i am more than confident that what i have to teach can help anyone whose brain structure is organically sound (more than 99% of us).

If you want to kill yourself, reach out to someone. Not necessarily for help, just tell someone to make sure you arent all bound up or off your head. Maybe in saying it to someone else you'll hear either the sense or nonsense in what you're saying. It would be irresponsible of me to say suicide is ever right in a public forum, so i won't, but should you take the ultimate, irrevocable step as the result purely of your own counsel? No.

I am not a suicide specialist, but i am a life specialist. I have no psych degrees, some professional counseling experience, but my systems are the product of 20 years work and have been successfully used by many others. Holla me by PM if you think i can help you make sense of yourself. Free & confidential.

wikkidpissah said:

More harm than good to my mind. Whatever benefit a person may gain from the information & commonality of the performer is overriden by the permission it gives auditors to take comfort in feeling badly. The courage to oppose one's impulses is as necessary to good mental health as identifying one's danger factors. Because of mistakes by those who've treated & taught the nature of behavior & emotion up til now, what you have going on inside you is going to require work, learning, courage to overcome. Answers necessarily can't be based on being less courageous, which the young man in the video appears to be enabling.

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My initial response to the paragraph (and most of this post) would get me banned from the board, but after a moment's reflection I can simply describe it as my being unconvinced of the appropriateness, helpfulness, and foundations of your espoused perspective as a universal truth.

Henry Ford said:

My initial response to the paragraph (and most of this post) would get me banned from the board, but after a moment's reflection I can simply describe it as my being unconvinced of the appropriateness, helpfulness, and foundations of your espoused perspective as a universal truth.

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it is not a universal truth. far as i know, i'm the only one advancing it precisely in the way i do so. i do, however, consider it an abiding theory, as do a high % of those who've given it a try. modern society has been suffering exponentially more for decades now. i offer an alternative, nothing more. sorry if i offend, certainly not my intention. i did intend to startle some, however - having come up with an effective technique for dealing with onesself, i'm proud to seek attention for it.

wikkidpissah said:

it is not a universal truth. i do, however, consider it an abiding theory, as do a high % of those who've given it a try. modern society has been suffering exponentially more for decades now. i offer an alternative, nothing more. sorry if i offend, certainly not my intention. i did intend to startle some, however - having come up with an effective technique for dealing with onesself, i'm proud to seek attention for it.

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I'm sure.  And I'm sure for the people it's applicable to, it's very helpful.  I'm sure your heart is in the right place with it.

The "performer" in question is a slightly well known personality who runs Philosophy Tube, an introspective and inquisitive YouTube channel focused on applying philosophical principles to daily life and major questions.  He uses short films and artifice in order to create a narrative around it.  In this particular video he is relating his own suicide attempt.  To dismiss that as him enabling people being less courageous makes me want to beat you around the head and neck with a halibut until my arms give out and I have to begin throwing it at you with my feet.  To say that "there is but one reason for suicide and it is taking life personally" following the halibut beating would no doubt cause me to have renewed vigor in my limbs and again heft the halibut for continued batting practice. 

I say only with love that some people who are having difficulty will find your perspective less helpful and potentially significantly harmful.  

I'm happy for you (and others) that people you've spoken with have found your approach helpful.  And while I appreciate the offer, no, I don't believe I would like you to help me "make sense of" myself.

Henry Ford said:

I'm sure.  And I'm sure for the people it's applicable to, it's very helpful.  I'm sure your heart is in the right place with it.

The "performer" in question is a slightly well known personality who runs Philosophy Tube, an introspective and inquisitive YouTube channel focused on applying philosophical principles to daily life and major questions.  He uses short films and artifice in order to create a narrative around it.  In this particular video he is relating his own suicide attempt.  To dismiss that as him enabling people being less courageous makes me want to beat you around the head and neck with a halibut until my arms give out and I have to begin throwing it at you with my feet.  To say that "there is but one reason for suicide and it is taking life personally" following the halibut beating would no doubt cause me to have renewed vigor in my limbs and again heft the halibut for continued batting practice. 

I say only with love that some people who are having difficulty will find your perspective less helpful and potentially significantly harmful.  

I'm happy for you (and others) that people you've spoken with have found your approach helpful.  And while I appreciate the offer, no, I don't believe I would like you to help me "make sense of" myself.

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refute my central assertion, then.

wikkidpissah said:

refute my central assertion, then.

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I'm not going to turn this thread into a discussion on your system, but thank you for the offer.

Defense rests, Your Honor.

wikkidpissah said:

Defense rests, Your Honor.

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In the sense that I sent my response by PM?  Don't do this to this thread.

Just watched “The Depresh”, Gary Gulman’s new stand up special since his hospitalization for severe depression and anxiety. Highly recommend; it’s on HBO now. 

Let me preface this by stating I'm not feeling suicidal, but this seemed like the best place to post how I've been feeling lately.

For the past few months I've felt "off". It's difficult to explain and probably makes me sound crazy, but I've been having very intense deja vu experiences that make me doubt reality, as well as strong anxiety attacks where I feel I'm on the verge of a nervous breakdown and sometimes I just fall apart and cry a bit.

During the past week, I've been feeling powerful waves of nostalgia, mostly from music but there have been other triggers as well. To add to that, yesterday I felt this sense of impending doom following me around and it was just crushing my soul. I was having terrible thoughts about being afraid to die and what if it happens early, and how much that would suck because I absolutely don't want to die.

But the thing is, I feel like I'm a happy person. I feel like I enjoy life. I like my family and my job. Am I having a mid-life crisis, or just realizing the harsh truth of my mortality? Sorry folks, for this very unfocused post... I'm just needing to put these feelings into words no matter how messy.

-arcK- said:

Let me preface this by stating I'm not feeling suicidal, but this seemed like the best place to post how I've been feeling lately.

For the past few months I've felt "off". It's difficult to explain and probably makes me sound crazy, but I've been having very intense deja vu experiences that make me doubt reality, as well as strong anxiety attacks where I feel I'm on the verge of a nervous breakdown and sometimes I just fall apart and cry a bit.

During the past week, I've been feeling powerful waves of nostalgia, mostly from music but there have been other triggers as well. To add to that, yesterday I felt this sense of impending doom following me around and it was just crushing my soul. I was having terrible thoughts about being afraid to die and what if it happens early, and how much that would suck because I absolutely don't want to die.

But the thing is, I feel like I'm a happy person. I feel like I enjoy life. I like my family and my job. Am I having a mid-life crisis, or just realizing the harsh truth of my mortality? Sorry folks, for this very unfocused post... I'm just needing to put these feelings into words no matter how messy.

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First, get a physical. Tell the examining doctor what you told us. Don't let the doc (or anyone yet) convince you that you're depressive - a big mistake mental health makes these days is selling cows to people who may only need a glass of milk. Consider a plan, if there's any need for one, only after a physical.

Next, find a relaxation technique. Modern life is high-input, low-reward. Meditation, focused breathing, mindfulness, yoga, tai chi, whatever. Stress doesn't announce itself, it just kills you. Protect yourself from it.

If you're not being as creative as you thought you might end up being, explore finding some kind of creative outlet. Consider it as a hedge even if you're not all that creative. Depression, even of a mild, mid-life variety, is a symptom of spiritual starvation.

Finally, give. Modern life conspires to make people defensively selfish. Break through that and be kind in whatever ways you can personally afford. The connection we were always meant to have & hold will make themselves clear to anyone who gives from the heart.

Good luck. Living intentionally is just as rewarding as living improvisationally and no more diffifcult (possibly less w practice). Check it out and, by all means, check back with us.

-arcK- said:

Let me preface this by stating I'm not feeling suicidal, but this seemed like the best place to post how I've been feeling lately.

For the past few months I've felt "off". It's difficult to explain and probably makes me sound crazy, but I've been having very intense deja vu experiences that make me doubt reality, as well as strong anxiety attacks where I feel I'm on the verge of a nervous breakdown and sometimes I just fall apart and cry a bit.

During the past week, I've been feeling powerful waves of nostalgia, mostly from music but there have been other triggers as well. To add to that, yesterday I felt this sense of impending doom following me around and it was just crushing my soul. I was having terrible thoughts about being afraid to die and what if it happens early, and how much that would suck because I absolutely don't want to die.

But the thing is, I feel like I'm a happy person. I feel like I enjoy life. I like my family and my job. Am I having a mid-life crisis, or just realizing the harsh truth of my mortality? Sorry folks, for this very unfocused post... I'm just needing to put these feelings into words no matter how messy.

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Did something happen recently? About two years ago right before Christmas my FIL died and my wife and I had the flu (bad, one day each where we couldn’t get out of bed). My company was also in the process of getting acquired and layoffs were coming in January. I was a stress ball and didn’t feel good to boot and the travel for the funeral. It was just a period of anything that could go wrong did. I don’t consider myself depressed in any way, but it was just a rough time. My hair was actually falling out a little in February. That scared the #### out of me but I didn’t get let go and the bad stuff passed. Funny that two years later, I need to get back in shape but overall things are much, much better financially and feelings wise. That might have been my lowest point. It sounds like you might be similar in that you aren’t clinically depressed but your having a rough period. It helped me to recognize that I was stressing myself out and as the layoffs and other stuff passed, I was able to let go of that stress. I mean, losing my hair actually made me realize that I was making myself feel worse physically. Weird and stressful time. 

stbugs said:

Did something happen recently? About two years ago right before Christmas my FIL died and my wife and I had the flu (bad, one day each where we couldn’t get out of bed). My company was also in the process of getting acquired and layoffs were coming in January. I was a stress ball and didn’t feel good to boot and the travel for the funeral. It was just a period of anything that could go wrong did. I don’t consider myself depressed in any way, but it was just a rough time. My hair was actually falling out a little in February. That scared the #### out of me but I didn’t get let go and the bad stuff passed. Funny that two years later, I need to get back in shape but overall things are much, much better financially and feelings wise. That might have been my lowest point. It sounds like you might be similar in that you aren’t clinically depressed but your having a rough period. It helped me to recognize that I was stressing myself out and as the layoffs and other stuff passed, I was able to let go of that stress. I mean, losing my hair actually made me realize that I was making myself feel worse physically. Weird and stressful time. 

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Well there are some other factors that I didn't mention. It may not be a coincidence that this has occurred over football season. I take losses entirely to heart and I'm sure that's not good for my stress level. I thought I was okay on Saturday with my team getting knocked out of the playoffs but it's possible the stress I endured through the game hit me the next day.

Another thing... I realized at some point that I had been drinking too much the past few years. Having at minimum a couple of beers every day became a crutch that I relied on to melt that stress away. But my body was telling me that drinking was ruining my sleep and adding to my gut. So I've started cutting back and it could be that's why my stress level is wreaking havoc unchecked.

I guess I've always just been a high-strung kind of person who doesn't handle stress very well? I think Wikkid is right in that I don't currently have any good methods for dealing with stress. Definitely need to find something... probably just plain old exercise would be a good start.

Anyway, thanks for hearing me out, and I'm glad you made it through that rough time and are in a much better state of mind. Did the hair you lost come back in?!? I have a friend who loses whole chunks of hair and has random bald spots when he has major stress, but it eventually comes back in after he calms down.

@-arcK-

I don’t have a lot of great advice on these sorts of thing. Just wanted to let you know there’s another guy out here in the universe wishing you well.

-arcK- said:

Well there are some other factors that I didn't mention. It may not be a coincidence that this has occurred over football season. I take losses entirely to heart and I'm sure that's not good for my stress level. I thought I was okay on Saturday with my team getting knocked out of the playoffs but it's possible the stress I endured through the game hit me the next day.

Another thing... I realized at some point that I had been drinking too much the past few years. Having at minimum a couple of beers every day became a crutch that I relied on to melt that stress away. But my body was telling me that drinking was ruining my sleep and adding to my gut. So I've started cutting back and it could be that's why my stress level is wreaking havoc unchecked.

I guess I've always just been a high-strung kind of person who doesn't handle stress very well? I think Wikkid is right in that I don't currently have any good methods for dealing with stress. Definitely need to find something... probably just plain old exercise would be a good start.

Anyway, thanks for hearing me out, and I'm glad you made it through that rough time and are in a much better state of mind. Did the hair you lost come back in?!? I have a friend who loses whole chunks of hair and has random bald spots when he has major stress, but it eventually comes back in after he calms down.

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i can't tell you anything about your current condition but can tell you that I've experienced a lot of the aforementioned your problems and it was due to alcohol, a temporary euphoria followed by a depletion of the good stuff in our bodies and brain. You flood the brain with GABA and the brain, after getting used to it, is fighting for more during your hangovers or down times. If you feel like you have a drinking problem, maybe talk to a professional. Otherwise, yes, talk to a professional about this, anyway. Doesn't seem normal for a middle-aged man to start weeping out of the blue because of passing, however intense, thoughts about mortality generalized.

Just maybe speak with someone who hears it every day and knows what's what. 

I second kutta. Another person out here wishing you well. 

wikkidpissah said:

First, get a physical. Tell the examining doctor what you told us. Don't let the doc (or anyone yet) convince you that you're depressive - a big mistake mental health makes these days is selling cows to people who may only need a glass of milk. Consider a plan, if there's any need for one, only after a physical.

Next, find a relaxation technique. Modern life is high-input, low-reward. Meditation, focused breathing, mindfulness, yoga, tai chi, whatever. Stress doesn't announce itself, it just kills you. Protect yourself from it.

If you're not being as creative as you thought you might end up being, explore finding some kind of creative outlet. Consider it as a hedge even if you're not all that creative. Depression, even of a mild, mid-life variety, is a symptom of spiritual starvation.

Finally, give. Modern life conspires to make people defensively selfish. Break through that and be kind in whatever ways you can personally afford. The connection we were always meant to have & hold will make themselves clear to anyone who gives from the heart.

Good luck. Living intentionally is just as rewarding as living improvisationally and no more diffifcult (possibly less w practice). Check it out and, by all means, check back with us.

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As usual, @wikkidpissah is ultra insightful.  Thank you for this... I know it wasn't directed at me, but it helps me.

rockaction said:

i can't tell you anything about your current condition but can tell you that I've experienced a lot of the aforementioned your problems and it was due to alcohol, a temporary euphoria followed by a depletion of the good stuff in our bodies and brain. You flood the brain with GABA and the brain, after getting used to it, is fighting for more during your hangovers or down times. If you feel like you have a drinking problem, maybe talk to a professional. Otherwise, yes, talk to a professional about this, anyway. Doesn't seem normal for a middle-aged man to start weeping out of the blue because of passing, however intense, thoughts about mortality generalized.

Just maybe speak with someone who hears it every day and knows what's what. 

I second kutta. Another person out here wishing you well. 

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Honestly I'm kind of wondering if I should just quit drinking altogether.

I totally understand the sports thing.  I'm exactly the same way.  I take losses way harder than I should.  And I'd love to think I should just stop caring so much, but I'm not sure why I'm that way.  It sucks.  I've pretty much stopped watching sports live.  It was bad for my heart and my health.

I wish I had some sageful advice, but instead I can just commiserate with you, GB.  

-arcK- said:

Honestly I'm kind of wondering if I should just quit drinking altogether.

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Only you can ever determine that. I certainly can't speak to it regarding your situation. What I would do, is before I had any suicidal thoughts or ideations, to talk confidentially to someone, best a professional (or someone in AA or a group like that), with any sort of clergy even behind that (I bring up clergy because a lot of people depend on theirs for insight and edification), and if desperate, freinds and family behind that. Not a boss, not anyone with a personalized interest, anything. Just an ear and somebody qualified to take an objective look at it. Caveat: People have radically differing opinions about things related to alcohol, some antiquated, some too new-agey to give fruitful birth to spiritual makeover. Just talk to a pro and tread lightly yet confidently down your prescribed or revelatory path. 

I am certainly not a medical or social professional. If you decide that drinking is the problem and needs an answer, I might -- might -- be able to guide you through outpatient processes, but never fully, and always way, way behind any medical advice you get. Just an ear in the wilderness here. 

Yeah, I'm no expert either, but if you are even thinking that maybe drinking is part of the issue, than I'm guessing you're thinking that for a reason.  Instead of swearing off alcohol, go a month or two to see if you feel any better.  If not, you can keep drinking.  But if you do feel better, that might have something to do with it.  Taking a break from drinking and quitting altogether are completely different.  

TheIronSheik said:

Yeah, I'm no expert either, but if you are even thinking that maybe drinking is part of the issue, than I'm guessing you're thinking that for a reason.  Instead of swearing off alcohol, go a month or two to see if you feel any better.  If not, you can keep drinking.  But if you do feel better, that might have something to do with it.  Taking a break from drinking and quitting altogether are completely different.  

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Yeah, when I quit smoking I couldn't think of it that way. I just said to myself that I'll smoke again but see how long I can go without it. After a while, when you realize you can quit, the decision becomes easier.

As others have said, arcK, if you're thinking about quitting drinking, there's probably a reason. It definitely won't hurt to try.

-arcK- said:

Well there are some other factors that I didn't mention. It may not be a coincidence that this has occurred over football season. I take losses entirely to heart and I'm sure that's not good for my stress level. I thought I was okay on Saturday with my team getting knocked out of the playoffs but it's possible the stress I endured through the game hit me the next day.

Another thing... I realized at some point that I had been drinking too much the past few years. Having at minimum a couple of beers every day became a crutch that I relied on to melt that stress away. But my body was telling me that drinking was ruining my sleep and adding to my gut. So I've started cutting back and it could be that's why my stress level is wreaking havoc unchecked.

I guess I've always just been a high-strung kind of person who doesn't handle stress very well? I think Wikkid is right in that I don't currently have any good methods for dealing with stress. Definitely need to find something... probably just plain old exercise would be a good start.

Anyway, thanks for hearing me out, and I'm glad you made it through that rough time and are in a much better state of mind. Did the hair you lost come back in?!? I have a friend who loses whole chunks of hair and has random bald spots when he has major stress, but it eventually comes back in after he calms down.

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Recognizing the stress is a good start. I realized what it was doing to me and while I still need to get my ### in gear on getting back in shape, letting it go was great. I’m in my late 40s so I was already losing hair in certain spots but it was more of brushing my hair and I could tell there were a lot extra. Not clumps and definitely not making me bald, but concerning. It ended in a couple weeks after I realized what it was doing. Connecting the dots between stress and obvious physical changes was eye opening.

I’m glad I replied because it really does kick me in the butt again about getting back into shape.

-arcK- said:

rockaction said:

i can't tell you anything about your current condition but can tell you that I've experienced a lot of the aforementioned your problems and it was due to alcohol, a temporary euphoria followed by a depletion of the good stuff in our bodies and brain. You flood the brain with GABA and the brain, after getting used to it, is fighting for more during your hangovers or down times. If you feel like you have a drinking problem, maybe talk to a professional. Otherwise, yes, talk to a professional about this, anyway. Doesn't seem normal for a middle-aged man to start weeping out of the blue because of passing, however intense, thoughts about mortality generalized.

Just maybe speak with someone who hears it every day and knows what's what. 

I second kutta. Another person out here wishing you well. 

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Honestly I'm kind of wondering if I should just quit drinking altogether.

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I think it's possible that your recent feelings of stress/anxiety/whatever is your brain's subconscious reaction to the threat of becoming sober.

(And that's not necessarily a bad thing.)

[scooter] said:

I think it's possible that your recent feelings of stress/anxiety/whatever is your brain's subconscious reaction to the threat of becoming sober.

(And that's not necessarily a bad thing.)

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Dang. Never even considered that. :mindblown:

It's hard to pinpoint exactly when I started drinking too often... 4 or 5 years ago maybe? But I want to say that since then the most I've gone without a beer has probably been 4 days. I've always gone into the weekend thinking I want to enjoy it while it's here, and since I enjoy drinking stouts, that what I did. Football season typically increases drinking because on Mon and Thur it's tempting to have a beer during the games.

Well, I'm going to follow the advice in here and just take a break and see how it goes. Not sure how that will go when the Super Bowl comes around, but I'll worry about that later. Thanks fellas.

-arcK- said:

Dang. Never even considered that. :mindblown:

It's hard to pinpoint exactly when I started drinking too often... 4 or 5 years ago maybe? But I want to say that since then the most I've gone without a beer has probably been 4 days. I've always gone into the weekend thinking I want to enjoy it while it's here, and since I enjoy drinking stouts, that what I did. Football season typically increases drinking because on Mon and Thur it's tempting to have a beer during the games.

Well, I'm going to follow the advice in here and just take a break and see how it goes. Not sure how that will go when the Super Bowl comes around, but I'll worry about that later. Thanks fellas.

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Good luck. It might be hard but I’m betting you’ll feel better and that’s what you need to think about.

One good thing about the SB, is if you can get through that day, everything else should be cake. 

-arcK- said:

Dang. Never even considered that. :mindblown:

It's hard to pinpoint exactly when I started drinking too often... 4 or 5 years ago maybe? But I want to say that since then the most I've gone without a beer has probably been 4 days. I've always gone into the weekend thinking I want to enjoy it while it's here, and since I enjoy drinking stouts, that what I did. Football season typically increases drinking because on Mon and Thur it's tempting to have a beer during the games.

Well, I'm going to follow the advice in here and just take a break and see how it goes. Not sure how that will go when the Super Bowl comes around, but I'll worry about that later. Thanks fellas.

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David Carr.  Changed my way of thinking about booze.  Read his book on booze. Helped me quit. I too was nervous about quitting. Quit cold turkey.   Was difficult because all the sudden I had a bunch of free time on my hands that before was spent boozin. Fast forward about 3 years or so, still not drinking and never felt better. You can do it. 

boots11234 said:

David Carr.  Changed my way of thinking about booze.  Read his book on booze. Helped me quit. I too was nervous about quitting. Quit cold turkey.   Was difficult because all the sudden I had a bunch of free time on my hands that before was spent boozin. Fast forward about 3 years or so, still not drinking and never felt better. You can do it. 

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What's the name of the book?

Soooo much to relate to in this thread right now.

I've contemplated giving up drinking but I don't think I can.  I would be what's classified as a "binge drinker".  I rarely drink at home; only when it's a precursor to going out.  

I go out 3-4 times a month; more during football season because "my bar" is on the way home from work and going to have a few drinks while watching MNF was awesome.

I'm sure my life (and health) would change if I stopped, but I really love beer and the feeling of having a good buzz.  Also, it's a social thing.

Interesting stuff to read here, and while it sucks on one hand, on the other it is good to know I'm "not alone".

-arcK- said:

Honestly I'm kind of wondering if I should just quit drinking altogether.

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Cutting back and rarely drinking really helped me.  Well, that and a combination of consistent exercise and cutting out most sweets.  You don't need to go to the gym and do cross fit everyday, just focus on getting off your a** and moving.  I find even after a long walk, I feel much better and a lot of anxiety dissipates.   Sounds like you have a great life and just need a few adjustments to get back on the right track mentally.  Best of luck to you.  

boots11234 said:

David Carr.  Changed my way of thinking about booze.  Read his book on booze. Helped me quit. I too was nervous about quitting. Quit cold turkey.   Was difficult because all the sudden I had a bunch of free time on my hands that before was spent boozin. Fast forward about 3 years or so, still not drinking and never felt better. You can do it. 

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Do you mean Allen Carr?

CurlyNight said:

Do you mean Allen Carr?

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Yes thats it. The Book that changed my life.  Had you told me that reading a book would get me to stop drinking before, I'd have told you that youre crazy.  After reading it and for me not just 'reading' it but thinking about what it said.  And I mean really thinking about it.  I stopped.  No DWI"s or any other problems, I just felt i was drinking too much.  Personal life was suffering, weight, health etc.  I often hear people expressing fear or saying they dont think they can give it up.  Sure you can and after reading the book I realized i wasnt giving anything up but actually the opposite.  I was gaining so much that drinking stopped me from getting.  

I also agree with others who say exercise.  Go for a walk, make it a habit.  You'll feel better.  After i quit drinking I actually picked up the banjo.  I had so much more free time from not drinking i started a new awesome habit!!

Good luck.  You can do it!

Finding a good therapist can help. 

ncmagistrate said:

Finding a good therapist can help. 

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This is a great idea but honestly I'm intimidated by trying to navigate the system. I don't even have a regular doctor. Not sure how to find one.

nirad3 said:

Soooo much to relate to in this thread right now.

I've contemplated giving up drinking but I don't think I can.  I would be what's classified as a "binge drinker".  I rarely drink at home; only when it's a precursor to going out.  

I go out 3-4 times a month; more during football season because "my bar" is on the way home from work and going to have a few drinks while watching MNF was awesome.

I'm sure my life (and health) would change if I stopped, but I really love beer and the feeling of having a good buzz.  Also, it's a social thing.

Interesting stuff to read here, and while it sucks on one hand, on the other it is good to know I'm "not alone".

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I'm the opposite kind of drinker. Almost always drink at home, and I'm a "constant" drinker instead of binging. I tend to drink high ABV beers that I take my time with and savor. I try to avoid getting getting carried away because I just can't deal with hangovers. But I do enjoy beer and I feel like I'll be missing out on one of life's pleasures if I completely quit. Still going to take a break though. I want to see what difference it makes.

-arcK- said:

This is a great idea but honestly I'm intimidated by trying to navigate the system. I don't even have a regular doctor. Not sure how to find one.

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Maybe go to a local AA chapter. There you get a sponsor and meet people in the same boat. Maybe someone there has a good therapist to refer you to.

-arcK- said:

This is a great idea but honestly I'm intimidated by trying to navigate the system. I don't even have a regular doctor. Not sure how to find one.

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There's been a lot of great advice in here, and I think the first thing wikkid mentioned- seeing a medical doctor- should be step one.

As somebody with a history of depression, something about your post above resonated...I get stressed out at times trying to do some simple ####- like finding a Dr if I don't have one, or even making the appointment. Then the not making/finding the appointment feeds on itself pushing me down darker places. That's how my depression works...Dunno if that's the case for you based on what you've written, just thought I'd throw it out there.

But what helps me is taking the tiniest of steps towards positive action- looking up a Dr, whatever. My depression paralyzes me, and the more paralyzed I am the worse I get...like sinking in quicksand.

And again, not trying to impose depression on you here, but what you're desecribing sounds like a place not normal for you and seems possibly like a chemical imbalance that can be fixed bypositive steps that Dr should look at first. And a therapist too if you can swing it. Those steps could be pills, but could also be cutting booze and exercising (both are positive steps regardless)

Good luck!

El Floppo said:

There's been a lot of great advice in here, and I think the first thing wikkid mentioned- seeing a medical doctor- should be step one.

As somebody with a history of depression, something about your post above resonated...I get stressed out at times trying to do some simple ####- like finding a Dr if I don't have one, or even making the appointment. Then the not making/finding the appointment feeds on itself pushing me down darker places. That's how my depression works...Dunno if that's the case for you based on what you've written, just thought I'd throw it out there.

But what helps me is taking the tiniest of steps towards positive action- looking up a Dr, whatever. My depression paralyzes me, and the more paralyzed I am the worse I get...like sinking in quicksand.

And again, not trying to impose depression on you here, but what you're desecribing sounds like a place not normal for you and seems possibly like a chemical imbalance that can be fixed bypositive steps that Dr should look at first. And a therapist too if you can swing it. Those steps could be pills, but could also be cutting booze and exercising (both are positive steps regardless)

Good luck!

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What you said here in bold sounds eerily familiar. Another anxiety trigger for me, as dumb as it sounds, is finding parking in an area I'm unfamiliar with. I've missed events, even some important ones, because I've freaked out over not being able to figure out where to park. Man, I know, that is so stupid and childish...

Was talking to a buddy about what's been going on lately and he suggested that I'm depressed. In my mind, I'm thinking: "how? I've been suicidal before, I've wanted to die, and I've been way past that for many years. I'm so far away from that feeling now that I can't possibly be suffering from depression, because I truly know what it's like to be rock-bottom..."

I'm an infrequent poster so I doubt anyone remembers, but I posted on this board many years ago (I think maybe even in this very thread?) about how I wanted to kill myself. Seems like a lifetime ago. But what I'm learning is depression isn't a happy/sad thing. There's apparently a lot more to it than. It feels weird to say but it seems one can feel joy and contentment in their lives but still be depressed.

You mentioned you have a history of depression, and if you don't mind me asking, how has it evolved over the years? Does it disappear, re-emerge? Or always there, right under the surface, even during all the good times?