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Marvel Cinematic Universe - Sanity Prevails Spidey Back in MCU

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I think people are missing the writing criticism.

The story was dependent on Fury hooking up with Mysterio and then recruiting SM - but it had to be Fury with his link to SHIELD

But it was so out of character for Fury to be duped and then to recruit SM for an Avengers level villain (the elementals)

So how do you reconcile both situations - you replace Fury with a Skrull.

And that doesn't even address the painful attempts at comedy

 

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2 hours ago, The Dude said:

I think people are missing the writing criticism.

 

  Hide contents

 

The story was dependent on Fury hooking up with Mysterio and then recruiting SM - but it had to be Fury with his link to SHIELD

But it was so out of character for Fury to be duped and then to recruit SM for an Avengers level villain (the elementals)

So how do you reconcile both situations - you replace Fury with a Skrull.

And that doesn't even address the painful attempts at comedy

 

 

 

That was the point. It's not because of lazy writing, in fact it's pretty brilliant writing and filming/direction (see my redit link for the latter). They out thought you. You haven't out thought them and spotted the bad writing. 

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lol at brilliant.  

 

The reddit link was cool but doesn't make every other scene in the movie better.

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And not just knocking the movie.  If they would have done the same thing but used the Chameleon and then exposed him in the context of the movie - or used him post credits to set up another story - I likely would have applauded.

More logical of a villain conspiracy rather than a mulligan.

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1 hour ago, TheFanatic said:

That was the point. It's not because of lazy writing, in fact it's pretty brilliant writing and filming/direction (see my redit link for the latter). They out thought you. You haven't out thought them and spotted the bad writing. 

And if you believe some of the theories, seems Marvel has been setting this up since at least Age of Ultron.  Wasn't like they painted themselves in a corner in this movie and went with an easy way out.  

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8 hours ago, TheFanatic said:

This is so incredibly wrong. 

Is going to see a great movie saying it sucks and calling it weak writing the old guy version of a hipster going to micro brewery and forgoing the small batch stuff they make in house in favor of a Pabst because he knows better? 

Had to go personal, I don't blame you.  Its worse than Iron Man 3.

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22 hours ago, B Maverick said:

And if you believe some of the theories, seems Marvel has been setting this up since at least Age of Ultron.  Wasn't like they painted themselves in a corner in this movie and went with an easy way out.  

Exactly. The Easter Eggs these guys have been laying for more than a decade now, show they have a vision for the future and that it is nothing close to lazy writing. 

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21 hours ago, BigSteelThrill said:

Had to go personal, I don't blame you.  Its worse than Iron Man 3.

It's not just with this. It's just about everything out there that hits a small or large screen. Someone comes along and says, "Plot hole. Lazy writing." Some even argue they can do better. But it is definitely a new trend I'm seeing. 

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28 minutes ago, TheFanatic said:

It's not just with this. It's just about everything out there that hits a small or large screen. Someone comes along and says, "Plot hole. Lazy writing." Some even argue they can do better. But it is definitely a new trend I'm seeing. 

Not really a new trend. Been around pretty much since movies. More prevalent around the time Phantom Menace came out and the internet started picking up steam.

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10 minutes ago, Insein said:

Not really a new trend. Been around pretty much since movies. More prevalent around the time Phantom Menace came out and the internet started picking up steam.

The Internet is a communication tool used the world over where people can come together to ##### about movies and share pornography with one another. The Internet has given everybody in America a voice. For some reason, everybody decides to use that voice to ##### about movies.

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23 hours ago, B Maverick said:

And if you believe some of the theories, seems Marvel has been setting this up since at least Age of Ultron.  Wasn't like they painted themselves in a corner in this movie and went with an easy way out.  

I've seen the theories but they're pure speculation....I really don't think it goes back that far.  That said I loved the movie and was fine with the reveal.

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6 minutes ago, Buckychudd said:

I've seen the theories but they're pure speculation....I really don't think it goes back that far.  That said I loved the movie and was fine with the reveal.

They are speculation but I am starting to think Marvel's plans did go back that far.  If you look back at seemingly throw away type dialogue, a lot do connect to the events in later movies.  I think there are to many of these to be coincidences or lucky writing at the time.   Not to say they are all part of the plan and some aren't happy accidents... but I am leaning toward Marvel Genius and not coincidence.

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Posted (edited)

And it's possible for people to love a movie that has a flaw


I certainly have a few of those...

Edited by The Dude
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And I agree with Insein - this trend you are just noticing has been around for a long time.

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Surprised nobody has brought this up: 

What does everyone think about Mysterio claiming the MCU was Earth-616? Was he mistaken? Was he simply lying? Regardless of the reason, it implies that some characters in the MCU, at least, know of the multiverse, and maybe there is some connection between the MCU and Earth-616.

 

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20 minutes ago, turnerj0 said:

Surprised nobody has brought this up: 

 

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What does everyone think about Mysterio claiming the MCU was Earth-616? Was he mistaken? Was he simply lying? Regardless of the reason, it implies that some characters in the MCU, at least, know of the multiverse, and maybe there is some connection between the MCU and Earth-616.

 

Or its just a li'l nugget/shout-out for all the long time readers.

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1 hour ago, turnerj0 said:

Surprised nobody has brought this up: 

 

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What does everyone think about Mysterio claiming the MCU was Earth-616? Was he mistaken? Was he simply lying? Regardless of the reason, it implies that some characters in the MCU, at least, know of the multiverse, and maybe there is some connection between the MCU and Earth-616.

 

You should check out the latest Reel Blend podcast - they just interviewed the director - including spoilers - and he covers this although not completely.

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17 hours ago, Insein said:

Not really a new trend. Been around pretty much since movies. More prevalent around the time Phantom Menace came out and the internet started picking up steam.

I'd be willing to bet that if one did a search on the term "Lazy Writing" in this forum that there would be nothing more than 5 years ago. maybe even 2 years ago. 

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, TheFanatic said:

I'd be willing to bet that if one did a search on the term "Lazy Writing" in this forum that there would be nothing more than 5 years ago. maybe even 2 years ago. 

You're limiting it to this forum? Well good luck with this search feature.

Actually search function seems to be working fine now. 

First instance on this board goes back to 2007 in the Sopranos thread. 

Edited by Insein
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Posted (edited)

Late to the party but finally saw it.  As with most MCU movies I loved it.  I don't know where to rank it yet.  Need to see it some more but this felt like a genuine Spider-man comic book story, even more so then Homecoming.  To place this movie right after the events of Endgame is daunting.  Plenty of loose ends to tie up and I think Marvel did great in accomplishing that.

 

Story wise it was pretty obvious Mystero was the villain but we just didn't know exactly what illusion he was going for till after the bar scene.  Brilliant.  Gylenhall had to have a hoot playing this character.  He absolutely nailed Quentin Beck.  Action scenes were fantastic, they usually always are. 

I really am finding it hard to criticize anything about this movie.  Some of the jokes were a little weak but for the most part I enjoyed the comedy.

The two end credit scenes give us a glimpse into what to expect from Phase 4 and can't really recall more OMG/WTF type End Credit scenes then what was shown in Far From Home.  Bringing in J.K. Simmons to play the Alex Jones version of J. Jonah Jameson was a nice touch.  If their was one casting call they nailed from the original movies it was him as Jameson and its awesome that he is back.

Who knows what happens from here.  All of Spidey's friends and family are now presumably in very real danger now that Peter's identity is exposed.  It should make for a great third installment.  Keep seeing Kraven the Hunter.  I hope that is true.

 

Marvel does such a spectacular job of dropping hints/Easter Eggs that if you can somehow pick up on them you may be able to see what is coming next.  The fact that Hill and Fury were Skrulls the entire time was hinted at several times during.  The opening scene in the Mexican town Hill calls Fury "Nick"....no one ever refers to him him as "Nick".  He has always gone by "Fury"

 

There is not much to like out there Cinema wise anymore with the constant reboots but the Marvel movies just continuously get it right.  There only may be a few I consider bad (Iron Man 3, Incredible Hulk, Dark World).  They just keep hitting it out of the park.

Edited by CentralPA
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6 hours ago, CentralPA said:

Late to the party but finally saw it.  As with most MCU movies I loved it.  I don't know where to rank it yet.  Need to see it some more but this felt like a genuine Spider-man comic book story, even more so then Homecoming.  To place this movie right after the events of Endgame is daunting.  Plenty of loose ends to tie up and I think Marvel did great in accomplishing that.

  Hide contents

Story wise it was pretty obvious Mystero was the villain but we just didn't know exactly what illusion he was going for till after the bar scene.  Brilliant.  Gylenhall had to have a hoot playing this character.  He absolutely nailed Quentin Beck.  Action scenes were fantastic, they usually always are. 

I really am finding it hard to criticize anything about this movie.  Some of the jokes were a little weak but for the most part I enjoyed the comedy.

The two end credit scenes give us a glimpse into what to expect from Phase 4 and can't really recall more OMG/WTF type End Credit scenes then what was shown in Far From Home.  Bringing in J.K. Simmons to play the Alex Jones version of J. Jonah Jameson was a nice touch.  If their was one casting call they nailed from the original movies it was him as Jameson and its awesome that he is back.

Who knows what happens from here.  All of Spidey's friends and family are now presumably in very real danger now that Peter's identity is exposed.  It should make for a great third installment.  Keep seeing Kraven the Hunter.  I hope that is true.

 

Marvel does such a spectacular job of dropping hints/Easter Eggs that if you can somehow pick up on them you may be able to see what is coming next.  The fact that Hill and Fury were Skrulls the entire time was hinted at several times during.  The opening scene in the Mexican town Hill calls Fury "Nick"....no one ever refers to him him as "Nick".  He has always gone by "Fury"

 

There is not much to like out there Cinema wise anymore with the constant reboots but the Marvel movies just continuously get it right.  There only may be a few I consider bad (Iron Man 3, Incredible Hulk, Dark World).  They just keep hitting it out of the park.

Just saw it and agreed. 

Absolutely loved most of the movie, I expected the reveal as a villian to take longer but this wasn't going 3 hours so it worked. 

Love MJ, I don't care that she's different than Mary Jane, she rocks. 

I'll assume Aunt May will be protected by Happy and pepper. The others are at risk. 

On 7/11/2019 at 2:51 PM, Buckychudd said:

I've seen the theories but they're pure speculation....I really don't think it goes back that far.  That said I loved the movie and was fine with the reveal.

I've heard since winter soldier with the diagonal toast, which could make sense. He's been kinda absent a lot. 

The comment about Captain Marvel "don't mention that name" or something like that probably means something. 

On 7/11/2019 at 8:52 PM, BigSteelThrill said:

Or its just a li'l nugget/shout-out for all the long time readers.

That's my thought. 

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On 7/9/2019 at 7:31 PM, The Dude said:

The duping of Fury was critical to the story but doesn't make sense within the character history.  So they wrote an out.

That's...that's called good writing. Not weak. Especially bc it's obviously a future plot point. 

When they faked us out with a BS version of Mandarin in the Iron Man movies? Weak, imo. 

This was good.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

That's...that's called good writing. Not weak. Especially bc it's obviously a future plot point. 

When they faked us out with a BS version of Mandarin in the Iron Man movies? Weak, imo. 

This was good.

I’m starting to wonder if he thinks they write and film movies in the order they’re shown? Only thing that makes sense with that take. 

Edited by Capella
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2 hours ago, Capella said:

I’m starting to wonder if he thinks they write and film movies in the order they’re shown? Only thing that makes sense with that take. 

Maybe he thinks they're covering up for not having Samuel L Jackson available to shoot the film and they had to use Ben Mendhelson in a mask the whole film.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

That's...that's called good writing. Not weak. Especially bc it's obviously a future plot point. 

When they faked us out with a BS version of Mandarin in the Iron Man movies? Weak, imo. 

This was good.

I might agree if there was a reason for the charade.   Fury being in space is not a contingency of the SM one being a skrull.

Unless you think Fury had to be in space at the same time Mysterio appears.  

Edited by The Dude

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Capella said:

I’m starting to wonder if he thinks they write and film movies in the order they’re shown? Only thing that makes sense with that take. 

Your take doesn't even address my point.  

Edited by The Dude

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10 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I might agree if there was a reason for the charade.   Fury being in space is not a contingency of the SM one being a skrull.

Unless you think Fury had to be in space at the same time Mysterio appears.  

This makes no sense. You have no idea why he's in space or if it was necessary

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10 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Your take doesn't even address my point.  

My understanding is your point was the after credits scene was done in order to make up for poor writing earlier in the movie. If they thought the writing was poor they would just re-write those scenes, not tack an after-credit scene to it. 

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2 hours ago, Capella said:

My understanding is your point was the after credits scene was done in order to make up for poor writing earlier in the movie. If they thought the writing was poor they would just re-write those scenes, not tack an after-credit scene to it. 

I don;t think you understand 

They needed Fury to give Mysterio credibility

But they had to cover for Fury being duped by Mysterio and only recruiting SM for an Avengers level threat - both out of character for Fury

So they cover by saying it was never Fury but a skrull

The scene of Fury in space is irrelevant to those points - he could have been anywhere. 

 

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20 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I don;t think you understand 

They needed Fury to give Mysterio credibility

But they had to cover for Fury being duped by Mysterio and only recruiting SM for an Avengers level threat - both out of character for Fury

So they cover by saying it was never Fury but a skrull

The scene of Fury in space is irrelevant to those points - he could have been anywhere. 

 

Yeah, but he wasn't anywhere. He was in space with the Skrull, while two Skrull impersonated Maria Hill and himself on earth. That isn't weak writing, it's a plot point that will matter more later. You're doing mental gymnastics here. 

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Posted (edited)

Thor 4.

Ragnarok’ director Taika Waititi is returning to helm the next Thor movie.  🔨

Edited by BigSteelThrill
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4 hours ago, BigSteelThrill said:

Thor 4.

Ragnarok’ director Taika Waititi is returning to helm the next Thor movie.  🔨

Wonderful news.  Ragnarok is the best Thor film.

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4 hours ago, BigSteelThrill said:

Thor 4.

Ragnarok’ director Taika Waititi is returning to helm the next Thor movie.  🔨

Hope this means Korg returns!

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49 minutes ago, shadyridr said:

Hope this means Korg returns!

The revolution has begun!

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Agents of Shield panel today at Comic-Con. The big MCU panel won't be until Saturday when it's thought that we will get a lot more info on Phase 4.

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Proposed name:  Thor 4: More Thor

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I was telling my daughter it would be kind of cool if they did a 2 movie story line that encompassed Thor 4 and Guardians 3 together, since they kind of setup the Asguardians of the Galaxy idea in Endgame.

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15 minutes ago, Jaysus said:

Proposed name:  Thor 4: More Thor

Thor 4 Thor

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42 minutes ago, NewlyRetired said:

I was telling my daughter it would be kind of cool if they did a 2 movie story line that encompassed Thor 4 and Guardians 3 together, since they kind of setup the Asguardians of the Galaxy idea in Endgame.

Asguardians of the Galaxy 3/4: Why is Gamora?

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4 hours ago, Jaysus said:

Proposed name:  Thor 4: More Thor

Thor 4: More Thor for Mordor

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19 minutes ago, Insein said:

Not sure how far away, but Deadpool is coming all over the MCU soon

I am unsure how I feel about this.  What makes Deadpool work is the R rated humor.  There is no way Disney is going to allow that character to start commenting on Black Widow's body for instance.

I want to see more Deadpool but a PC watered down version might not work.

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46 minutes ago, NewlyRetired said:

I am unsure how I feel about this.  What makes Deadpool work is the R rated humor.  There is no way Disney is going to allow that character to start commenting on Black Widow's body for instance.

I want to see more Deadpool but a PC watered down version might not work.

There's a PG13 option for Deadpool that works. Especially if he teams with Spiderman. That will hit the right demographic. It doesn't have to be grotesque mutilation or hardcore sex jokes to make him work. Besides I think they've run out after two films. 

Plus R rated Deadpool movies made a lot of money for Fox. That's the main reason Disney bought them. To get control of other money making properties. I think we see a movie as close to R as possible while paying a few people off to get the PG13.

Deadpool and Ryan Reynolds are popular items that make money. You better believe he's in the MCU over the next 5 years at some point.

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56 minutes ago, Capella said:

No chance this happens imo 

Does Disney not like money all of a sudden?

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8 minutes ago, Insein said:

Does Disney not like money all of a sudden?

Disney has already said they are making more R rated Deadool. 

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7 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Disney has already said they are making more R rated Deadool. 

Exactly

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6 hours ago, Insein said:

Does Disney not like money all of a sudden?

They’ll make a Deadpool movie but no chance they incorporate an R-rated Deadpool into the mcu. Either they’ll just make a stand-alone movie or he’ll be significantly watered down imo 

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There's also a dark, more serious, chips-are-down version of Deadpool in the comics that could be further explored (e.g. the Deadpool vs. Carnage books, including at least one ready-to-film graphic novel). I know the MCU doesn't typically do "dark" ... but the point was that there are well-established avenues to take Deadpool that don't require potty humor or rated-X double-entendres.

And as Insein alluded to, there has already been a series of Deadpool + Spidey comics -- mostly as a reluctant team-up but also at some points as adversaries. Those books are plenty irreverant, but PG-13 enough for us to allow our then-10-year-old son to collect them.

There is also a "Death of Deadpool" compilation book that features a ton of fun & weird team-ups (e.g. Deadpool + "The Thing" Ben Grimm + Benjamin Franklin's Ghost [yes, the Founding Father himself]). The material from that book is also PG-13 without the aimed-at-adults humor suffering.

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