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RB Doug Martin, Free Agent (1 Viewer)

The situation seems fine. Winston is improving rapidly and they have some nice pieces in the passing game.

Not sure which dynasty destinations owners would prefer. Maybe somewhere like Dallas or GB? A bit of a pipedream...

TB is fine. He is doing fine there and they should only get better.

 
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I recall people talking about Dougs game against the Raiders in 2012 (251 yards) a fluke and just due to poor defense. Well poor defense is required but Martin came pretty close to repeating that feat 3 seasons later, which to me proves that it was not a fluke. He is capable of huge games when all of these things align for him. He has outstanding upside.

 
I recall people talking about Dougs game against the Raiders in 2012 (251 yards) a fluke and just due to poor defense.
Which was dumb because every big offensive game is in some way the result of poor defense.

You can't have a back run for 250 yards and say the defense played great.

 
I recall people talking about Dougs game against the Raiders in 2012 (251 yards) a fluke and just due to poor defense.
Which was dumb because every big offensive game is in some way the result of poor defense.

You can't have a back run for 250 yards and say the defense played great.
True. The Eagles D was awful. That said, Martin somehow didn't score a TD. Carroll ran him down on all of the long runs. But Carroll also got beat on 3 of the passing TDs.

 
The situation seems fine. Winston is improving rapidly and they have some nice pieces in the passing game.

Not sure which dynasty destinations owners would prefer. Maybe somewhere like Dallas or GB? A bit of a pipedream...

TB is fine. He is doing fine there and they should only get better.
this.

A promising QB - and two decent receivers, and an improving defense.

 
The situation seems fine. Winston is improving rapidly and they have some nice pieces in the passing game.

Not sure which dynasty destinations owners would prefer. Maybe somewhere like Dallas or GB? A bit of a pipedream...

TB is fine. He is doing fine there and they should only get better.
Except for the goal line vulture TDs.

 
90 yards rushing at half time in a very close game.

2 carries in the third quarter

ZERO carries and ZERO targets in the 4th quarter.

Yes....so excited about his future in Tampa Bay.

 
90 yards rushing at half time in a very close game.

2 carries in the third quarter

ZERO carries and ZERO targets in the 4th quarter.

Yes....so excited about his future in Tampa Bay.
This was really odd to me. I know that Sims is the passing down back, but this was a one possession game for most of the second half.

 
First two second half possessions were 3 and out. The Bucs' defense couldn't get the Colts off the field after that. By the time they did the Bucs were already in throw mode. :shrug:

 
First two second half possessions were 3 and out. The Bucs' defense couldn't get the Colts off the field after that. By the time they did the Bucs were already in throw mode. :shrug:
Throw mode is much more effective when you let your best player run once in a while. Tampa Bay played like they were down 30. 90 first half yards, after 235 last week, and they chose to take Martin out of the game plan.

 
This guy is a serviceable receiver but they act like he is Alfred Morris. He's a balanced RB, just leave him in games like this.

 
First two second half possessions were 3 and out. The Bucs' defense couldn't get the Colts off the field after that. By the time they did the Bucs were already in throw mode. :shrug:
Throw mode is much more effective when you let your best player run once in a while. Tampa Bay played like they were down 30. 90 first half yards, after 235 last week, and they chose to take Martin out of the game plan.
I don't think they chose specifically to take him out. The game just went that way. They came out going to Martin on the first two drives of the second half, but couldn't sustain anything. Penalties. Drops. Then the defense basically let Matt Hasselbeck chew them up.

 
This guy is a serviceable receiver but they act like he is Alfred Morris. He's a balanced RB, just leave him in games like this.
Hopefully, Lovie realizes how badly this loss hurts their playoff chances and is smart enough to understand what was different between the two halves.

 
I would be ok if he stayed in Tampa. Much like everyone was concerned with Ingram in NO, I would hate to have him in NE where they would like split his carries in an extreme manner. Dallas is the pipe dream for all upcoming RB free agents.

 
urbanhack said:
90 yards rushing at half time in a very close game.

2 carries in the third quarter

ZERO carries and ZERO targets in the 4th quarter.
Last week during the Eagles game I heard 2 different announcers, one on the radio and one on TV, question this because they obviously haven't been paying attention to Tampa Bay this year.

Local Philly radio: "Yeah they seem to take Martin out and leave this guy Simms in for a while, I have no idea why."

TV Announcer: "Doug Martin has not been seen for a while as Charles Sims has been on the field. Looks like Martin may be injured, stay tuned for an update."

Clearly running for over 230 yards isn't enough to earn you the workhorse role these days.

 
The way they use him does suck really bad from a fantasy standpoint but he's still been really good. He could have crazy numbers though if they just fed him the ball. I swear he gets more big runs called back by penalties but that is probably just because I'm paying attention to him.

Nice match up next week as well for he 1st week of the playoffs.

 
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The way they use him does suck really bad from a fantasy standpoint but he's still been really good. He could have crazy numbers though if they just fed him the ball. I swear he gets more big runs called back by penalties but that is probably just because I'm paying attention to him.

Nice match up next week as well for he 1st week of the playoffs.
i happened to catch both big runs on Red Zone when they happened. Unreal. Could have been a much bigger day.

 
I have one quibble with him, and it is a relatively small one. As far as making people miss, and making quick cuts, he looks like one of the best backs in the league to this point (at least of the healthy variety). However, when he gets out into the open field, it seems like he is caught more often than not. When you combine his lack of top end speed, plus the Bucs' love of Sims on 3rd down, with their use of Winston by the goal line, his upside is limited.

He is still a clear RB 1 every week start in the present landscape, but not an elite one in my view.

From a keeper perspective, I fear the coaching staff will think they can get by with Sims and spend their money elsewhere, and that he will go elsewhere in a spilt carry situation.

 
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I have one quibble with him, and it is a relatively small one. As far as making people miss, and making quick cuts, he looks like one of the best backs in the league to this point (at least of the healthy variety). However, when he gets out into the open field, it seems like he is caught more often than not. When you combine his lack of top end speed, plus the Bucs' love of Sims on 3rd down, with their use of Winston by the goal line, his upside is limited.

He is still a clear RB 1 every week start in the present landscape, but not an elite one in my view.

From a keeper perspective, I fear the coaching staff will think they can get by with Sims and spend their money elsewhere, and that he will go elsewhere in a spilt carry situation.
He's very quick, but over long distances, his short stride catches up with him and guys with big strides tend to be able to run him down. Just a minor complaint though. What aggravates me more is when he makes a 50 yard run and gets tackled at the two, and then Winston decides he wants to take the touchdown. I've seen that happen multiple times.

It was very nice to see them let Martin have the one yarder yesterday.

 
How's about a week where they let him carry the ball the whole game, give him a couple passes, Winston doesn't call his own number, he finishes some long runs, and there are no holding penalties taking away long runs.

Not too much to ask.

 
I'm starting Winston, Evans, and Doug against the sieve of a defense that is the New Orleans Saints. I'm expecting the Bucs to get shut out.

 
I'm starting Winston, Evans, and Doug against the sieve of a defense that is the New Orleans Saints. I'm expecting the Bucs to get shut out.
Many owners started Brian Hoyer against the Saints two weeks ago because of how poor the Saints defense is. And he responded with two first quarter touchdown passes. Problem is, the Saints didn't score one touchdown the entire game, and Hoyer stopped passing at halftime and Houston played conservative and ate up the clock in the second half.

I'm starting Martin and Evans this week too. We have to root for our starters PLUS Drew Brees. The defense isn't much of a challenge. So if Brees can get the offense to score some points, I could see a great game for the Tampa Bay offense.

 
I just wanted to say congrats to the guys that were correct in projecting that Martin would have a great fantasy season. I was personally a non-believer in his ability to raise his "floor" and was not a fan of his historic "boom or bust" type outings---- and I was wrong. My projections of how Winston would translate into an NFL qb were also wrong--as he's progressed into a better player than what I had thought he would be. In any case--I just didn't want to come across as the type of person that disappears and is scared to admit that he was wrong. I was 1000% wrong about him this year. Well done guys.

 
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I like this dude. May have a chance at him in Free Agency. He's proven to me to be a model of consistency. Even if he stays with the Buccaneers I would be happy. Can't think of many better fits besides maybe the Panthers?

 
With Koetter officially the HC, returning to TB has to be a very good result for Martin owners, but these landing spots would be nice, too:

Jets - if they don't re-sign Ivory

Dallas - if Romo can stay healthy

Seattle - if they cut Lynch

Baltimore - if they keep Trestman

Indy - if they improve the OL

Miami - if they don't re-sign Miller

Houston - if they get a QB

I'd hate to see him go to Chicago or Tennessee who will both likely be looking for RBs.

Houston wouldn't be overly exciting, either, unless they get a QB. As a team, the RB position ranked 19th in FF scoring. 423 carries (at only 3.8 ypc) was 1 shy of the NFL lead and the 112 target ranked 12th, so the touches are there. For reference here are where the teams mentioned ranked in RB (0ppr) scoring:

Chi - 8th (but Gase left)

NYJ - 12th

Sea - 17th

Bal - 18th

Hou - 19th

Dal - 21st

Mia - 27th (coaching staff gone)

Ten - 28th

Ind - 30th

With his improved pass blocking efficiency this year, he could really do some damage as a 3 down back in Trestman or Gailey's systems. Watching Sims catch 51 passes was kind of painful.

 
FF Ninja said:
With Koetter officially the HC, returning to TB has to be a very good result for Martin owners, but these landing spots would be nice, too:

Jets - if they don't re-sign Ivory

Dallas - if Romo can stay healthy

Seattle - if they cut Lynch

Baltimore - if they keep Trestman

Indy - if they improve the OL

Miami - if they don't re-sign Miller

Houston - if they get a QB

I'd hate to see him go to Chicago or Tennessee who will both likely be looking for RBs.

Houston wouldn't be overly exciting, either, unless they get a QB. As a team, the RB position ranked 19th in FF scoring. 423 carries (at only 3.8 ypc) was 1 shy of the NFL lead and the 112 target ranked 12th, so the touches are there. For reference here are where the teams mentioned ranked in RB (0ppr) scoring:

Chi - 8th (but Gase left)

NYJ - 12th

Sea - 17th

Bal - 18th

Hou - 19th

Dal - 21st

Mia - 27th (coaching staff gone)

Ten - 28th

Ind - 30th

With his improved pass blocking efficiency this year, he could really do some damage as a 3 down back in Trestman or Gailey's systems. Watching Sims catch 51 passes was kind of painful.
You can remove SEA from the list IMO. Rawls and Michael both looked great after Lynch went down. Michael may or may not be back, but Rawls should be in line to succeed Lynch.

 
With Koetter officially the HC, returning to TB has to be a very good result for Martin owners, but these landing spots would be nice, too:

Jets - if they don't re-sign Ivory

Dallas - if Romo can stay healthy

Seattle - if they cut Lynch

Baltimore - if they keep Trestman

Indy - if they improve the OL

Miami - if they don't re-sign Miller

Houston - if they get a QB

I'd hate to see him go to Chicago or Tennessee who will both likely be looking for RBs.

Houston wouldn't be overly exciting, either, unless they get a QB. As a team, the RB position ranked 19th in FF scoring. 423 carries (at only 3.8 ypc) was 1 shy of the NFL lead and the 112 target ranked 12th, so the touches are there. For reference here are where the teams mentioned ranked in RB (0ppr) scoring:

Chi - 8th (but Gase left)

NYJ - 12th

Sea - 17th

Bal - 18th

Hou - 19th

Dal - 21st

Mia - 27th (coaching staff gone)

Ten - 28th

Ind - 30th

With his improved pass blocking efficiency this year, he could really do some damage as a 3 down back in Trestman or Gailey's systems. Watching Sims catch 51 passes was kind of painful.
You can remove SEA from the list IMO. Rawls and Michael both looked great after Lynch went down. Michael may or may not be back, but Rawls should be in line to succeed Lynch.
Eh, Seattle drafted a guy in the 2nd round when they already had Lynch in his prime. I really doubt they go into next season with Rawls and Michael tops on their depth chart.

 
With his improved pass blocking efficiency this year, he could really do some damage as a 3 down back in Trestman or Gailey's systems. Watching Sims catch 51 passes was kind of painful.
I get what you're saying when it comes to FF, but does a team really want to be giving a RB 325+ touches...especially if they sign him to a longer term contract? The 320 touches Martin got seems pretty optimal from a real NFL team perspective. Kept him fresh and healthy all season, thought it was great coaching how they managed Martin.

 
With Koetter officially the HC, returning to TB has to be a very good result for Martin owners, but these landing spots would be nice, too:

Jets - if they don't re-sign Ivory

Dallas - if Romo can stay healthy

Seattle - if they cut Lynch

Baltimore - if they keep Trestman

Indy - if they improve the OL

Miami - if they don't re-sign Miller

Houston - if they get a QB

I'd hate to see him go to Chicago or Tennessee who will both likely be looking for RBs.

Houston wouldn't be overly exciting, either, unless they get a QB. As a team, the RB position ranked 19th in FF scoring. 423 carries (at only 3.8 ypc) was 1 shy of the NFL lead and the 112 target ranked 12th, so the touches are there. For reference here are where the teams mentioned ranked in RB (0ppr) scoring:

Chi - 8th (but Gase left)

NYJ - 12th

Sea - 17th

Bal - 18th

Hou - 19th

Dal - 21st

Mia - 27th (coaching staff gone)

Ten - 28th

Ind - 30th

With his improved pass blocking efficiency this year, he could really do some damage as a 3 down back in Trestman or Gailey's systems. Watching Sims catch 51 passes was kind of painful.
You can remove SEA from the list IMO. Rawls and Michael both looked great after Lynch went down. Michael may or may not be back, but Rawls should be in line to succeed Lynch.
Eh, Seattle drafted a guy in the 2nd round when they already had Lynch in his prime. I really doubt they go into next season with Rawls and Michael tops on their depth chart.
Rawls looked like the real deal to me. Drafting someone to be a backup/ insurance and giving someone a multi million dollar contract to be a starter are two different things.

 
With Koetter officially the HC, returning to TB has to be a very good result for Martin owners
It would seem staying in TB would be good for Martin since the new head coach was the one fighting to keep him on the roster. Lovie et al seemed to be constantly looking to replace him.
 
With Koetter officially the HC, returning to TB has to be a very good result for Martin owners, but these landing spots would be nice, too:

Jets - if they don't re-sign Ivory

Dallas - if Romo can stay healthy

Seattle - if they cut Lynch

Baltimore - if they keep Trestman

Indy - if they improve the OL

Miami - if they don't re-sign Miller

Houston - if they get a QB

I'd hate to see him go to Chicago or Tennessee who will both likely be looking for RBs.

Houston wouldn't be overly exciting, either, unless they get a QB. As a team, the RB position ranked 19th in FF scoring. 423 carries (at only 3.8 ypc) was 1 shy of the NFL lead and the 112 target ranked 12th, so the touches are there. For reference here are where the teams mentioned ranked in RB (0ppr) scoring:

Chi - 8th (but Gase left)

NYJ - 12th

Sea - 17th

Bal - 18th

Hou - 19th

Dal - 21st

Mia - 27th (coaching staff gone)

Ten - 28th

Ind - 30th

With his improved pass blocking efficiency this year, he could really do some damage as a 3 down back in Trestman or Gailey's systems. Watching Sims catch 51 passes was kind of painful.
You can remove SEA from the list IMO. Rawls and Michael both looked great after Lynch went down. Michael may or may not be back, but Rawls should be in line to succeed Lynch.
Eh, Seattle drafted a guy in the 2nd round when they already had Lynch in his prime. I really doubt they go into next season with Rawls and Michael tops on their depth chart.
Well, there is every reason to expect Rawls to be #1 on the depth chart, in which case it makes zero sense to sign Martin for the money that would require to play behind Rawls, and that was the point of my response to your post. I agree the Seahawks will likely add another RB for depth, but it would be very surprising if that was Martin.

 
With his improved pass blocking efficiency this year, he could really do some damage as a 3 down back in Trestman or Gailey's systems. Watching Sims catch 51 passes was kind of painful.
I get what you're saying when it comes to FF, but does a team really want to be giving a RB 325+ touches...especially if they sign him to a longer term contract? The 320 touches Martin got seems pretty optimal from a real NFL team perspective. Kept him fresh and healthy all season, thought it was great coaching how they managed Martin.
Yeah, I was just speaking in terms of FF. Would be pretty awesome from a FF perspective to see him get a 2014 Forte/Trestman workload. Receptions don't tend to take as much of a toll on the body as carries, but typically yield twice the yardage. I'd rather see him get 240 carries and 80 rec than 288 and 33.

Well, there is every reason to expect Rawls to be #1 on the depth chart, in which case it makes zero sense to sign Martin for the money that would require to play behind Rawls, and that was the point of my response to your post. I agree the Seahawks will likely add another RB for depth, but it would be very surprising if that was Martin.
Rawls looked pretty good for a fraction of a season (only 6 games with over 30 snaps, all the rest were 11 or less) where the defense probably wasn't keying on him like they would Lynch. I didn't do a lot of research (or any, tbh) into his catching or blocking, but I seriously think there's at least a 50% chance he's not the starter next year. An UDFA with six real games under his belt who got injured... you don't go into a potential super bowl season with him as option #1 unless you are really, really up against the cap. RBs are relatively cheap. Someone with more experience + pedigree will be brought in and likely win that job. Maybe not Doug if he prices himself out, but very possibly a guy like Lamar Miller or Chris Ivory.

 
With his improved pass blocking efficiency this year, he could really do some damage as a 3 down back in Trestman or Gailey's systems. Watching Sims catch 51 passes was kind of painful.
I get what you're saying when it comes to FF, but does a team really want to be giving a RB 325+ touches...especially if they sign him to a longer term contract? The 320 touches Martin got seems pretty optimal from a real NFL team perspective. Kept him fresh and healthy all season, thought it was great coaching how they managed Martin.
Yeah, I was just speaking in terms of FF. Would be pretty awesome from a FF perspective to see him get a 2014 Forte/Trestman workload. Receptions don't tend to take as much of a toll on the body as carries, but typically yield twice the yardage. I'd rather see him get 240 carries and 80 rec than 288 and 33.

Well, there is every reason to expect Rawls to be #1 on the depth chart, in which case it makes zero sense to sign Martin for the money that would require to play behind Rawls, and that was the point of my response to your post. I agree the Seahawks will likely add another RB for depth, but it would be very surprising if that was Martin.
Rawls looked pretty good for a fraction of a season (only 6 games with over 30 snaps, all the rest were 11 or less) where the defense probably wasn't keying on him like they would Lynch. I didn't do a lot of research (or any, tbh) into his catching or blocking, but I seriously think there's at least a 50% chance he's not the starter next year. An UDFA with six real games under his belt who got injured... you don't go into a potential super bowl season with him as option #1 unless you are really, really up against the cap. RBs are relatively cheap. Someone with more experience + pedigree will be brought in and likely win that job. Maybe not Doug if he prices himself out, but very possibly a guy like Lamar Miller or Chris Ivory.
I would think that the Seahawks have debunked this theory given their history of UDFA and late round picks as starters?

 
Well, there is every reason to expect Rawls to be #1 on the depth chart, in which case it makes zero sense to sign Martin for the money that would require to play behind Rawls, and that was the point of my response to your post. I agree the Seahawks will likely add another RB for depth, but it would be very surprising if that was Martin.
Rawls looked pretty good for a fraction of a season (only 6 games with over 30 snaps, all the rest were 11 or less) where the defense probably wasn't keying on him like they would Lynch. I didn't do a lot of research (or any, tbh) into his catching or blocking, but I seriously think there's at least a 50% chance he's not the starter next year. An UDFA with six real games under his belt who got injured... you don't go into a potential super bowl season with him as option #1 unless you are really, really up against the cap. RBs are relatively cheap. Someone with more experience + pedigree will be brought in and likely win that job. Maybe not Doug if he prices himself out, but very possibly a guy like Lamar Miller or Chris Ivory.
Rawls had more than 6 carries in 6 games. In those games, he had 776 YFS and 5 TDs. He had 100+ rushing yards in 4 of those games and 200+ in one of them.

He caught 9 of 11 targets for 76 yards on the season, so there is some potential for him in the passing game.

He led the league in YPC and ranked high in yards after contact, maybe #1, but I don't know where to find that data. Per Football Outsiders, he ranked #1 in DYAR and success rate and #2 in DVOA.

I think you are off base in your assessment that the only way he is the starter is if they are up against the cap. I'm not sure if you watched his games, but I watched all of them, and he looked as good as Lynch ever did. He got injured, but anyone would have been injured on that play, and the injury did not require surgery and should have no lasting effect.

Anyway, we can agree to disagree on this, but I don't see Seattle as a prospective landing place for any of Martin, Miller, or Ivory.

 
Well, there is every reason to expect Rawls to be #1 on the depth chart, in which case it makes zero sense to sign Martin for the money that would require to play behind Rawls, and that was the point of my response to your post. I agree the Seahawks will likely add another RB for depth, but it would be very surprising if that was Martin.
Rawls looked pretty good for a fraction of a season (only 6 games with over 30 snaps, all the rest were 11 or less) where the defense probably wasn't keying on him like they would Lynch. I didn't do a lot of research (or any, tbh) into his catching or blocking, but I seriously think there's at least a 50% chance he's not the starter next year. An UDFA with six real games under his belt who got injured... you don't go into a potential super bowl season with him as option #1 unless you are really, really up against the cap. RBs are relatively cheap. Someone with more experience + pedigree will be brought in and likely win that job. Maybe not Doug if he prices himself out, but very possibly a guy like Lamar Miller or Chris Ivory.
Rawls had more than 6 carries in 6 games. In those games, he had 776 YFS and 5 TDs. He had 100+ rushing yards in 4 of those games and 200+ in one of them.

He caught 9 of 11 targets for 76 yards on the season, so there is some potential for him in the passing game.

He led the league in YPC and ranked high in yards after contact, maybe #1, but I don't know where to find that data. Per Football Outsiders, he ranked #1 in DYAR and success rate and #2 in DVOA.

I think you are off base in your assessment that the only way he is the starter is if they are up against the cap. I'm not sure if you watched his games, but I watched all of them, and he looked as good as Lynch ever did. He got injured, but anyone would have been injured on that play, and the injury did not require surgery and should have no lasting effect.

Anyway, we can agree to disagree on this, but I don't see Seattle as a prospective landing place for any of Martin, Miller, or Ivory.
I feel like you are making my point for me. Only having 6 games with more than 6 carries means you are working with a woefully small sample size (CJA looked just as good last year with a larger sample size). I have noticed his high YPC, too, but I'm simply tempering expectations going forward due to the fact that defenses probably didn't pay much attention to him* and the sample size is so small. 9 rec on 11 targets isn't even sniffing a real sample size in the passing game, so I've got no choice but to continue to label his ability in that phase of the game as TBD. I mean, Seattle may have total confidence in him, but it would be shocking to see him and Michael at the top of the depth chart in September. I'm not saying he won't be the best back on the team, just that it would be uncommon for a super bowl team to roll the dice like that.

You sound extremely biased. Lynch was one of the best backs of his generation. Saying Rawls looked as good as Lynch ever did is a very, very strong statement and almost certainly wrong. Do you honestly believe he's as good as Lynch or is it possible your eyes were deceiving you?

*Lynch had a very high elusive rating this year, yet a low YPC. For Rawls to stack up those yards without setting an elusive rating record, defenses had to have been playing them differently.

Sorry to go off topic in the Martin thread, but I find it an interesting discussion.

 
You sound extremely biased. Lynch was one of the best backs of his generation. Saying Rawls looked as good as Lynch ever did is a very, very strong statement and almost certainly wrong. Do you honestly believe he's as good as Lynch or is it possible your eyes were deceiving you?
I have watched every Seattle game since Wilson (one of my favorite players) was drafted. I'm not a scout, but I stand by my statement. This season, Rawls looked as good on the field as I have ever seen Lynch look. I know that is strong praise, but IMO it is merited. His running style is actually reminiscent of Lynch, too, which makes the comparison even more interesting (to me).

This tangent started because you named Seattle as a potential suitor for Martin. I remain firm in my belief that there is little chance they will pay him his market value (or any other RB with high market value). If Martin wanted to play in Seattle enough to discount his market value for some reason, anything is possible. But Seattle has not been a team that uses RBBC to the degree that most teams do nowadays, so signing Martin would likely result in minimizing Rawls, which doesn't make cap sense and doesn't fit the Seahawks normal approach.

 

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