captain_amazing

Indefinite New England Patriots Thread

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It would not surprise me if they made a run at signing Decker to essentially trade Welker for Decker. It would strengthen their own team while weakening their biggest competition.

I haven't watched enough of him to know how I'd feel about him being a #1 outside guy. I mean I guess he's #2 behind Gronk anyway, and potentially even #3 behind the slot guy. If he can be had for a decent contract I'd be all for it, but I think he capitalizes on the 2013 Bronco hype and gets a ton of money by the Rams or someone and disappears.

Decker had 1 catch for 6 yards on Sherman's side.

This guy has bust written all over him outside of Denver.

No thanks.

That is very short sided, Jimmy Graham had 0 catches against Talib this season, Calvin Johnson had only 3 catches for 25 yards against Haden. Decker will be ok outside of Denver in the right spot. If he goes to another good offense he will be just fine.

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It would not surprise me if they made a run at signing Decker to essentially trade Welker for Decker. It would strengthen their own team while weakening their biggest competition.

I haven't watched enough of him to know how I'd feel about him being a #1 outside guy. I mean I guess he's #2 behind Gronk anyway, and potentially even #3 behind the slot guy. If he can be had for a decent contract I'd be all for it, but I think he capitalizes on the 2013 Bronco hype and gets a ton of money by the Rams or someone and disappears.

Decker had 1 catch for 6 yards on Sherman's side.

This guy has bust written all over him outside of Denver.

No thanks.

That is very short sided, Jimmy Graham had 0 catches against Talib this season, Calvin Johnson had only 3 catches for 25 yards against Haden. Decker will be ok outside of Denver in the right spot. If he goes to another good offense he will be just fine.

They will not overpay for this guy. Guaranteed.

Some other moron team will give him too much.

Good.

I'd rather they continue to grow Dobson and Thompkins.

Or draft a young TE while signing T. Gonzalez for 1 year to sit alongside Gronk.

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I like Decker and think he would be a great addition...he has size and if Dobson develops the combo of their size would give the passing attack a new dimension...that being said I have serious doubts the Pats would (or should) give Decker the type of money he will get on the open-market...more often than not WRs like Decker score a big contract in free agency...the Pats have other areas that need to be addressed (i.e. defense) and unless they get creative opening up cap space it will be tough to accomplish that if Decker gets a monster deal...Nicks is a guy that intrigues me because there is the potential to get him at a discounted rate...Boldin is a guy the Pats should have traded for years ago but I doubt San Fran lets him go...looking at the free agent WR list other WRs that may not cost a ton are Sanders, Golden Tate, Andre Roberts, James Jones and Riley Cooper...how much the Pats dip into this market will depend on what they do with Edelman...I love Edelman and am fully convinced that if healthy he will easily duplicate or surpass this year's numbers (also, let's remember how difficult it is for Wr's to get on the same page with Brady...the Pats have a long list of busts at this position)...the kid is a playmaker and the Pats need all the playmakers they can get...that being said Edelman and Amendola are somewhat redundant and another style WR might make the unit as a whole better...unfortunately due to the contract situation Amendola maybe the one who stays...if that is the scenario and the WR they bring in busts this unit could be somewhat of a disaster next year...also, I absolutely do not want to waste a high pick at this position, Brady did enough baby-sitting this year and the Pats used a #2 and #4 last year and that's enough...this is a real delicate area and depending on what they do (and how much the young kids develop) this unit has the potential to get a lot better or worse in 2014...they really need to be smart about this as the Brady window is closing and they can't waste another year with limited weapons...

Edited by Boston

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Can we now stop calling Edelman a PR and more a legitimate WR2?

I still don't think that is the case. Edelman would not be a WR2 on the majority of NFL teams. He would not get 150+ targets anywhere else. I also don't think that one healthy year out of five cements him as a lock to suit up every week. I sort of agree with BB that a lot of guys could do well playing the slot in NE, and Edelman just illustrated that this season. I don't really think he is a fit to play on the outside on a regular basis, so he is predominantly a slot receiver. I think Amendola can be used in more ways than Edelman and could play more on the outside or run deeper routes than Edelman.

If NE goes and signs a bigger name free agent WR (possible to probable), maybe invests another early pick on a WR (probably not) or TE (more likely), Gronk and Amendola come back healthier (we can all dream), Dobson continues to progress and all of a sudden Edelman is back to being a situational guy and the 4th or 5th option after FA WR, Gronk, Amendola, Vereen, and maybe Dobson. (I'm not sure that Thompkins or Boyce will be back.)

I have heard talking heads say he will be able to get a $5 year, $30 million deal in free agency, and I don't see it. If so, great for him, but I don't think the Pats will give him that much per year or that many years.

Excellent post.

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Has an NFL receiver ever had over 100 receptions for as few yards as Edelman got this year?

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Initial thoughts:

FA moves have to start with Wilfork and like MTS mentioned, at his age and weight I have some serious doubts about his effectiveness going forward. I would like to see him finish his career here, but he will need to accept significantly less if that is going to happen (I think he will).

Would like to see Edleman stay, but believe someone will offer him significantly more than NE will pay. I feel the same way about Blount, I do not see NE throwing much money at him and believe some other team will.

Talib - Another guy I would love to see stay, but he couldn't make it to halftime of the last 2 afccc and his hip issues appear to be chronic. I don't see them giving him the long term guaranteed money he will likely get elsewhere. More likely they would franchise him, but my gut says for 11mil they will let him go and maybe bring in 1 or 2 vets for a lot less..

Would love to see Decker on the team, but don't see it happening (too much $$).

Spikes is gone.

U can't count on Gronk being back (maybe the 2nd half od the season).

I believe their likely draft targets will be TE, Center\interior line and or Safety.

I concur w tombenau and wonder why we can't\don't get some faster players? How about a little less size and a little more speed? The def has never been the same since Harrison left and I would love to see a dramatic improvement there.

Edited by NE_REVIVAL

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2014 is D McCourty's last year on his contract-his salary jumps up to 3.9 mill. 2013 he got 650K.

His signing bonus puts his 2014 cap hit at 5.1 mill. Gostkowski is also in the last year of his

contract and is the 4th highest paid K with a cap hit of 3.8 mill. V Wilfork, also his last year with a

cap hit of 11.6 mill. D Connoly(last year) 4 mill cap hit-keep, restructure?

The Pats will get these lowered with extensions/cuts and hopefully make the first priority A Talib.

Edelmen is a bonus AFTER improving/retaining the defense and extending/resigning Ridley, Vereen,

Blount, and Connoly.

Welker wasn't all that great after the catch and it looks like Edelmen is worse. Develop the 2nd year/FA

WR's and if Edelmen stays fine. If not I don't think its as bad as some are making it out to be. Pats need

to scare defenses with more then Gronk. Edelmen, like Welker, is easier to replace.

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Do you all think we trade Mallet? And if so what would be the realistic draft pick we could get that would make it worthwhile. I'm thinking it would take a 2nd rounder.

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The teams that need a QB all have high picks. I don't think a team gives up a high 2nd for an unproven

backup that was drafted in the 3rd round 4 years ago. Backup QB's usually have more value to the teams

they're with. Maybe the Vikings if they don't like M Sanchez or the rest of the 3rd tier FA QB's. This is

looking like a very weak free agent QB off season.

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Do you all think we trade Mallet? And if so what would be the realistic draft pick we could get that would make it worthwhile. I'm thinking it would take a 2nd rounder.

Assuming recency bias takes hold, people will look at Richardson for a first and say its too risky to trade much for Mallet.

Assuming desperation kicks in for just one GM, a first rounder, even a high one.

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Man. Just imagine if we could get a first rounder. I can't see it happening but that would be awesome.

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Um yeah, but this IS the Pats thread so I was kinda hoping to get the opinion of other locals. Are you sick of talking about Mallet?

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It would not surprise me if they made a run at signing Decker to essentially trade Welker for Decker. It would strengthen their own team while weakening their biggest competition.

I haven't watched enough of him to know how I'd feel about him being a #1 outside guy. I mean I guess he's #2 behind Gronk anyway, and potentially even #3 behind the slot guy. If he can be had for a decent contract I'd be all for it, but I think he capitalizes on the 2013 Bronco hype and gets a ton of money by the Rams or someone and disappears.

Decker had 1 catch for 6 yards on Sherman's side.

This guy has bust written all over him outside of Denver.

No thanks.

That is very short sided, Jimmy Graham had 0 catches against Talib this season, Calvin Johnson had only 3 catches for 25 yards against Haden. Decker will be ok outside of Denver in the right spot. If he goes to another good offense he will be just fine.

They will not overpay for this guy. Guaranteed.

Some other moron team will give him too much.

Good.

I'd rather they continue to grow Dobson and Thompkins.

Or draft a young TE while signing T. Gonzalez for 1 year to sit alongside Gronk.

I don't think Brady's skills are what they used to be, although he's still better than most, and the window is closing fast IMO. I don't think they can wait on these guys to develop, they need to pull a Randy Moss type move and quick. I think a Decker or Nicks signing is what the doctor ordered.

Edited by JohnnyU

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This is looking like a very weak free agent QB off season.

Same as it ever was.

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Do you all think we trade Mallet? And if so what would be the realistic draft pick we could get that would make it worthwhile. I'm thinking it would take a 2nd rounder.

I think it would take a second rounder as well, or possibly a third and a fourth/player. I don't think we trade Mallet, though, as I don't think there are any teams at this time that would be willing to pay that price. But you never know.

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It would not surprise me if they made a run at signing Decker to essentially trade Welker for Decker. It would strengthen their own team while weakening their biggest competition.

I haven't watched enough of him to know how I'd feel about him being a #1 outside guy. I mean I guess he's #2 behind Gronk anyway, and potentially even #3 behind the slot guy. If he can be had for a decent contract I'd be all for it, but I think he capitalizes on the 2013 Bronco hype and gets a ton of money by the Rams or someone and disappears.

Decker had 1 catch for 6 yards on Sherman's side.

This guy has bust written all over him outside of Denver.

No thanks.

That is very short sided, Jimmy Graham had 0 catches against Talib this season, Calvin Johnson had only 3 catches for 25 yards against Haden. Decker will be ok outside of Denver in the right spot. If he goes to another good offense he will be just fine.

They will not overpay for this guy. Guaranteed.

Some other moron team will give him too much.

Good.

I'd rather they continue to grow Dobson and Thompkins.

Or draft a young TE while signing T. Gonzalez for 1 year to sit alongside Gronk.

I don't think Brady's skills are what they used to be, although he's still better than most, and the window is closing fast IMO. I don't think they can wait on these guys to develop, they need to pull a Randy Moss type move and quick. I think a Decker or Nicks signing is what the doctor ordered.
I agree that obtaining a proven, deep threat is the top need offensively for the Pats, but I'm not sure Decker or Nicks are the solution. Would they be an upgrade? Sure. But, after a year in the system for Dobson and Thompkins, I don't think either Decker or Nicks are enough of an upgrade to substantiate signing either of them (unless they could do on the cheap).

Personally, I don't like many of the WR FA options for the Pats. I actually would prefer the status quo while adding (if possible) an athletic hybrid WR/TE in the draft, and focus on the OL/DL/DB in FA.

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I agree. None of the free agent WRs seem like the answer. I would prefer getting a good TE in the draft. Take advantage of Brady's strength now - short, accurate passes. I'm not convinced he can throw deep well at all for the past couple of years. This is one reason I think the offense evolved into having two very good offensive TEs. And welker. You know back when we had good players on offense.

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What do folks think about the Michael Lombardi hire? I'm not really familiar with what his skills are as a coach, but I hear he's a personnell guy.

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What do folks think about the Michael Lombardi hire? I'm not really familiar with what his skills are as a coach, but I hear he's a personnell guy.

He's a buddy of Belichik's from his Cleveland Brown days...he is a front-office guy...Bill makes all the decisions so I don't think it's too much more than helping out a friend after he got axed...probably will be in some sort of advisor role...

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I know many Pats fans will be thrilled to hear about the release of Gregory, as he has been the true scapegoat of the team for a little over a year now. I always thought Gregory was better than what he was given credit for by fans and the media, who tended (as they do) to zero in on a few specific very bad plays (e.g. some blatant - slightly humiliating - missed tackles). Getting caught in the open field was his weakness, which is something you can't have for a safety. But, IMO, he was a good run-stopper and covered well.

At any rate, since the Pats had negotiations at the combine with Talib, I would presume that this could be a sign that things are going well. As I see it, if things weren't going well in the Talib talks and the Pats felt that it was likely he would sign elsewhere, then their greatest need immediately becomes CB. If that were true, I don't think it's likely that they'd release Gregory, as they wouldn't want to further deprive the secondary of depth.

OR, as another take, the release of Gregory could mean the team thinks Adrian Wilson is healthy and able to contribute in some role this upcoming season. I'm not sure that's the case, though.

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Gregory was an OK player...nothing special...at less money and with less of a role he can help a team...the Pats needed him to be better than he is and due to that some Patriot fans were really down on him...I blame the team more than him for that...the Pats have had zero success finding a big hitting safety since Rodney left and it has been a big issue...opposing offenses have zero fear of going over the middle on them...I really hope they are not counting on Adrian Wilson...hopefully he can come back but anything he provides is a bonus...right now Tavan Wilson Wilson looks like a waste of a second round pick...I like Harmon but he really doesn't fill that physical presence role...unless they really have faith in Adrian Wilson I gotta believe they will be adding another piece to this unit...

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I don't see them cutting Amendola. He was hobbled the entire season and gutted it out to play week to week. So I would not look at his on field performance as indicative as to what he could do if healthy. I know, I know he could easily get hurt again. He struggled to get separation and get open, but I think he will do better next year.

As far as Edelman goes, I am not as high on him as others are. He clearly benefited from all the other injuries and getting force fed the ball. So I would not consider him for big money WR. He got Welker-like targets (173) and did not put up quite the numbers that Wes did before him. The free agent market should be kinder than last year for Edelman, but I still don't see him getting big dollars. I don't see him getting a ton of money no matter where he goes.

If he does return to NE, I don't see him getting similar production if the other guys stay healthy. Based on that, it will be interesting to see how much the Pats offer him. I do think they look to bring in other receivers like they did between the 2006 and 2007 seasons.

I agree - I don't see them cutting Amendola either.

However, I'm curious about how you compare Amendola and Edelman. Do you think they bring the same qualities and could produce similar results if put in similar situations?

For instance, suppose Edleman had the groin injury this year and Amendola was completely healthy. In your opinion, would Amendola have produced the same, less, or more than Edelman had? I know it's hard to predict the results of such a supposition, especially given the fact that we have seen what a healthy Amendola can do in this system. But I'm curious about how you view the two players in comparison to one another.

Yes, I think Amendola with 150+ targets would have produced what Edelman did, maybe slightly better.

Using ESPN target data, there have been 59 players that had 150 or more targets in a season since 2006. Of those, Edelman's 2013 season ranked 54th in receiving yards, 58th in yds/rec, and tied for 40th in TD. In summary, he got a lot of help based on volume of targets and short receptions. One could argue that the lack of other threats depressed his totals as teams could focus more on him, but I still think he will lose a fair amount of production if NE can field other receiving options.

No one thinks it's odd then Edelman never sniffed this production and only produced after the guys role he was in was because Amendola's groin was an issue all year? Edelman will not even be brought back and the team that signs him will see he was part of the system that wasnt even intended for him in the first place. Amendola will be the slot guy this year, if he can stay healthy, and will produce those numbers.

As we have Seen with Welker, and Edelman in the replacement role, it is a position of production not the players itself. If a person new to football played the slot in New England they would catch 100 balls. While welker put up some TDs this year and was part of an offense that had much talent, he didn't produce like he has in New England and some will say he had a better QB.

Welker dropped from 173 Targets in 2011 and 175 in 2012 to 111 in 2013. Edelman never had over 54 in any one year in his four years, in fact he only had 108 targets in his 4 years combined before his 151 this year. It is the slot position of the Patriots offense, not the name of the player. This is enough proof for me to understand that. Manning also attempted roughly 30 more passes than Brady did.

Edited by False Start

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I know it probably won't happen but I would love to see what Brandin Cooks could do on the Pats. Everyone has us taking at TE. Maybe BB will surprise us?

Edited by Gandalf
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Not going to miss Gregory at all, mediocre (at best) is the word that comes to mind and his cap number was too big for his level of play. Agree with Boston that the team has not had a good safety (or a really good D) since Rodney left. Maybe Harmon will be a better option, I don't think he could be much worse than Gregory; either way the perennial search continues for talent at that position.

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I know it probably won't happen but I would love to see what Brandin Cooks could do on the Pats. Everyone has us taking at TE. Maybe BB will surprise us?

Agreed, I only saw a little of the combine, but Cooks really stood out and I thought he would look awesome in a Pats uniform :yes:

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If the Pats feel Mallet can be a good starting QB, they would be wise to trade Brady after this season.

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If the Pats feel Mallet can be a good starting QB, they would be wise to trade Brady after this season.

Would Christians trade Jesus just because he's getting old? Nope. Not gonna happen. I don't argue that it might make sense, but it's just not gonna happen.

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With the salary cap going up roughly 27 million over the next 3 years I see the Patriots getting a deal done with Talib. With the cap going up so much I could see them making a run at Decker, or Nicks. I still would like to see them bring in Britt on the cheap for a 1 or 2 year deal and see if he can be motivated the way Moss was when he came to the Pats. I don't see Britt putting up close to those numbers but he was a legit number 1 receiver when healthy and motivated. If he bombs out in camp he shouldn't be hard to cut.

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Are the Pats dangling Amendola...now that's an interesting rumor...I am a big Edelman fan (he is on the same page as Brady and that is really underrated as far as Patriot WRs go) and would like him back but I think it's hard to justify paying both Amendola and Edelman big money...something's gotta give here...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/01/report-patriots-have-floated-danny-amendolas-name-in-trade-discussions/

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I'd love to see it but who would take amendola with his contract and injury history? How bad is the cap hit again if we cut him? I think we just have to keep him and hope he gets healthy. Then cut him when the cap penalty wouldn't be too high. Anyone know when that would be?

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If the Pats feel Mallet can be a good starting QB, they would be wise to trade Brady after this season.

Would Christians trade Jesus just because he's getting old? Nope. Not gonna happen. I don't argue that it might make sense, but it's just not gonna happen.

And then we trade BB for a 1st rounder!

Never gonna happen. Ever. You don't trade Tom Brady. I don't care if we go 0-16. Brady needs to retire as a Patriot.

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I'd love to see it but who would take amendola with his contract and injury history? How bad is the cap hit again if we cut him? I think we just have to keep him and hope he gets healthy. Then cut him when the cap penalty wouldn't be too high. Anyone know when that would be?

If you believe Rotoworld, Pats would save $1.375M if they cut him after June 1st. I really don't think Amendola's contract is that out of line compared to other receivers in the league. He signed for 5 years and $28.6 million. If that money is considered on the high side, I don't think Edelman is worth that much either. He's only been healthy one year in his career. I tend to agree with the philosophy that "NE Slot Receiver" will be productive just based on the system and the QB.

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This issue with that contract and Amendola is you can't rely on him to stay healthy. Maybe what they should do is keep him on the bench in bubble wrap until the playoffs? I'm kidding but not completely. Wow another 4 years?

Agreed on Edelman. I think Cooks in the draft would be my answer. Go get him BB! (Maybe he reads this thread???)

Edited by Gandalf

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Are the Pats dangling Amendola...now that's an interesting rumor...I am a big Edelman fan (he is on the same page as Brady and that is really underrated as far as Patriot WRs go) and would like him back but I think it's hard to justify paying both Amendola and Edelman big money...something's gotta give here...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/01/report-patriots-have-floated-danny-amendolas-name-in-trade-discussions/

Why would anyone trade for Am Amendola? Too much luggage.

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Are the Pats dangling Amendola...now that's an interesting rumor...I am a big Edelman fan (he is on the same page as Brady and that is really underrated as far as Patriot WRs go) and would like him back but I think it's hard to justify paying both Amendola and Edelman big money...something's gotta give here...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/01/report-patriots-have-floated-danny-amendolas-name-in-trade-discussions/

Why would anyone trade for Am Amendola? Too much luggage.

If they guy stays healthy he is a heck of a receiver. He really toughed it out this year when he had his groin injury Week 1. Injuries happen and he is unlucky, I'm just hoping he gets one good year to show he can be the slot guy in NE. People will change their tune. I think he is way better than Edelman and we saw what he did.

What is Boyce's outlook with the team, Harrison and even Thompkins. He looked to fade away as the season went on.

Edited by False Start

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I'd love to see it but who would take amendola with his contract and injury history? How bad is the cap hit again if we cut him? I think we just have to keep him and hope he gets healthy. Then cut him when the cap penalty wouldn't be too high. Anyone know when that would be?

If you believe Rotoworld, Pats would save $1.375M if they cut him after June 1st. I really don't think Amendola's contract is that out of line compared to other receivers in the league. He signed for 5 years and $28.6 million. If that money is considered on the high side, I don't think Edelman is worth that much either. He's only been healthy one year in his career. I tend to agree with the philosophy that "NE Slot Receiver" will be productive just based on the system and the QB.

Compared to WRs that actually play football it makes sense. Compared to continually broken WRs, the contract sucks donkey balls.

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Are the Pats dangling Amendola...now that's an interesting rumor...I am a big Edelman fan (he is on the same page as Brady and that is really underrated as far as Patriot WRs go) and would like him back but I think it's hard to justify paying both Amendola and Edelman big money...something's gotta give here...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/01/report-patriots-have-floated-danny-amendolas-name-in-trade-discussions/

Why would anyone trade for Am Amendola? Too much luggage.

If they guy stays healthy he is a heck of a receiver. He really toughed it out this year when he had his groin injury Week 1. Injuries happen and he is unlucky, I'm just hoping he gets one good year to show he can be the slot guy in NE. People will change their tune. I think he is way better than Edelman and we saw what he did.

What is Boyce's outlook with the team, Harrison and even Thompkins. He looked to fade away as the season went on.

He's never been able to stay healthy and I don't know much of that is bad luck or he just has a brittle body (see Austin Collie, but for different injuries). He was fragile in St. Louis and he's still fragile, thus the reason I said why would anyone give anything for this guy. Now if you can get him for some rock candy and a car wash, then ok, but I wouldn't give anything more than a last rd draft pick for him.

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Lets give up the next two years 1st rounders to the Saints and offer Jimmy Graham a monster deal and go win a Super Bowl with the most unstoppable te tandem ever. Most likely the first rounders will be late and we can afford it. lets do it for Brady's last run at the next couple of Super Bowls ......what do say New England !!!!!

Edited by The Fantasy Chef

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