Dizzy
Footballguy
I think he meant that one of these supposedly "weak" AFC East teams that hands the Patriots 2 wins every year just went into Dallas and beat the doors off the Cowboys.
Not to mention one of the others just knocked out the Iggles.
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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter captain_amazing
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Not to mention one of the others just knocked out the Iggles.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Buffalo looks to be on the right path finally, Fitzmagic gives the fins a punchers chance to win 7/8 games, but they aren't going anywhere fast, in fact since they got their wins, they should play Rosen to finish out the string, just killing their draft spot.
Back to the pats, Ill believe they are dead when the clock strikes 00:00 and they don't have more points then whomever they are playing. They have cracks this year sure and if they have to play Baltimore on the road in the playoffs that would be tough. But I don't think KC or Houston are winning in Foxborough in January.
Bossman
Footballguy
Seems like the offense continues running the same plays expecting different results.
Very predictable with the run on 1st, run on 2nd, and pass on 3rd down last night. At least for the first few series.
What ever happened to the screen pass that they used so effectively so often? I haven't seen a screen pass in the last 3 games.
Each week we're expecting them to figure it out with the new additions and dial it in .... and each week they come out with the same stagnant plays that haven't been working.
I put much of the blame on McDaniels.
Very predictable with the run on 1st, run on 2nd, and pass on 3rd down last night. At least for the first few series.
What ever happened to the screen pass that they used so effectively so often? I haven't seen a screen pass in the last 3 games.
Each week we're expecting them to figure it out with the new additions and dial it in .... and each week they come out with the same stagnant plays that haven't been working.
I put much of the blame on McDaniels.
tombonneau
Footballguy
+1. Watching other teams run plays this weekend then the lack of creativity in NE was jarring. Same plays same results is accurate.
-OZ-
Footballguy
BB playing his best rope a dope of his career. The pats are still getting a bye week and home field for at least one game.
It's possible they lose 2 more games, more likely they'll end up 13-3. Buffalo the second time should be interesting, it seems the division could be on the line.
But they'll probably pull their #### together and make another playoff run.
I do laugh a little at their willingness to play kicker by committee this year.
It's possible they lose 2 more games, more likely they'll end up 13-3. Buffalo the second time should be interesting, it seems the division could be on the line.
But they'll probably pull their #### together and make another playoff run.
I do laugh a little at their willingness to play kicker by committee this year.
Bossman
Footballguy
I wonder if we're thinking of the same play. I forget what game I was watching ... maybe Vikings?
3rd and 2 or so, 2 RB's in the backfield so yes, threat to run it vs empty, ... the ball is snapped, both RB's take off left and the QB rolls with them.
The RB's maintained about a 5 yd spread between them as they got to the LOS, QB stayed about 7 yards back, ... and the defense didn't have enough free players to cover both of them.
QB made the easy toss to the open guy who scooted for the first down. They made it look so easy.
vs Brady forcing the pass to a double teamed Edleman or some other well covered option.
And again last night, watching SEA run 6 OL all night. That was well done and would make sense for NE to do if they want to be the run first team that they're trying to be.
Would also give Brady more time in the pocket I would think.
tombonneau
Footballguy
I didn't see that play but sounds like exactly the kind thing they used to draw up on the regular. Might be time for Josh to head off and run another franchise into the ground.
Hu-Tang Clan
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
The biggest issue for the NE offense is that the offense really hasn't had much chance to gel and play / practice together. The wide receivers keep changing, the OL has had multiple injuries, a bunch of guys have been in an out of the lineup, and they have rookies and new players trying to learn on the fly.
wgoldsph
Footballguy
This is exactly what I'm thinking. Why play for real when you can practice the basics against live fire? Then in January throw out all the wrinkles that an actual offense uses.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Kit Fisto
Footballguy
Last year the Pats went 11--5, losing back-to-back games twice. These losses were against "powerhouse" teams like Jacksonville, Detroit, Tennessee, Miami, and Pittsburgh. NONE OF THOSE TEAMS EVEN MADE THE PLAYOFFS!! Losses to Miami/Pitts came in December... GASP!!! Season turned out OK... 
Losing on the road to Baltimore and Houston... eh, not so bad in the grand scheme of things. We all need to chill.
Losing on the road to Baltimore and Houston... eh, not so bad in the grand scheme of things. We all need to chill.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Lol. Its an off year for the oline and ball catchers (bye Gronk, hello and bye AB) made worse by two fullbacks on IR after Gronk and Allen left.Ah the beginning of the end... finally!
I'm not as optimistic about the remainder of 2019 as some of my brethren, but throwing dirt on the evil empire might be a tad premature.
Dizzy
Footballguy
Maybe, but looks pretty simple to me... no Gronk... aging QB... double Edelman, spy White, done.
I'm not afraid to bury them. Changing of the guard in the AFC East... FINALLY!
She Caw Go Tears
Footballguy
Looking for a new Kicker - been watching NE to see who they pick up. Waivers are closing soon in my league so has to be done soon.
I've got Tucker by the way, he's an elite kicker, but !@#$ has Lamar as his QB, so they keep going for it on 4th and whatever in FG range so Tucker's pretty much only getting the XP's. LOL
I've got Tucker by the way, he's an elite kicker, but !@#$ has Lamar as his QB, so they keep going for it on 4th and whatever in FG range so Tucker's pretty much only getting the XP's. LOL
Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
I'm very curious who NE picks up for this week, too. Would love any homer insights...
Anarchy99
Footballguy
They tried to get the guy the Niners cut but couldn’t. Looks like Folk will most likely be coming back. They never cleared out his locker.
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She Caw Go Tears
Footballguy
Per Reiss, the Patriots must now decide whether to sign another kicker in advance of Week 13 action, or alternatively, employ punter Jake Bailey as a short-term replacement for Folk. (from CBS Sports)
Bossman
Footballguy
I don't buy for one minute that Pats are "saving it" for the playoffs. They've never had to "save it" any other year. Why would they now and sacrifice draft seeding?
Not one screen pass that I can remember in the last 3 games.
Think about that. What once was a staple of their offense. What changed?
Are defenses cheating up at the line to stop the run / short passes? They don't even attempt it anymore.
Not one screen pass that I can remember in the last 3 games.
Think about that. What once was a staple of their offense. What changed?
Are defenses cheating up at the line to stop the run / short passes? They don't even attempt it anymore.
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
The Big Donkey
Footballguy
Maybe they needed some comic relief after that loss. Nothing would make your team laugh more than Taylor dialing up stupid pass plays from the 2 yard line when Joe Mixon is gashing the D at a 6.3 ypc clip.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
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The_Man
Footballguy
Brady seems to have a man crush on Lamar Jackson. Buddied up to him before the Sunday Night game and then tweeting during this a Thursday’s game about racing him in a 40
All of which I find ironic because the Patriots were very interested in drafting Lamar and I doubt Brady would be treating him nearly this well if he was a teammate and his heir apparent
All of which I find ironic because the Patriots were very interested in drafting Lamar and I doubt Brady would be treating him nearly this well if he was a teammate and his heir apparent
Bossman
Footballguy
I see you found one thing to hang your hat on.
Defense is good but not great. Bungles actually moved the ball pretty well with the exception of Dalton giving up some easy INT's.
Was still a game before he melted down.
Bossman
Footballguy
So I finally got the screen pass that I've been begging for for 4 weeks.
White scurries to the end zone for 7.
McDaniels "Well THAT worked. I'll be sure not to call THAT play again today."
Honestly, what in the world is wrong with this guy?
1 TD in the first half ... vs the BENGALS!
I get it. Brady's elbow. Offensive line. Edelman still with ribs / knee. Crappy WR's. No Gronkowski. But c'mon. The Bengals?
Time Pats fan comes to grips with the fact that this is what we got and it's not going to turn around with the flip of a switch when playoffs start.
Better hope they can win some games 20 to 17 ... but I just don't see them able to hold KC, BAL, to that low of a score.
Great measuring stick Saturday against a playoff team.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I don’t put much stock in a game against the Bengals, but after the first 2 drives for CIN they never got back in the red zone. Dalton ended the game with a 39 passer rating. I never thought the game was ever in doubt, but if you want to say it was still a game so be it.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Was it Chase McLaughlin signed by the Colts? I wonder if he will be the Colts kicker in 2020. Adam V needs to ride off into the sunset. Will he retire a Patriot or a Colt? Tough to tell. His Patriots glory is well documented, but he played longer with the Colts and won a SB with them too. I wouldn't blame him for either decision actually.
Workhorse
Footballguy
I think that the Patriots have a growing problem stopping the run. Teams are doubling Shelton inside and the Pats are struggling to set the edge at times. It's starting to show and Belichick will need to adjust heading into the postseason.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
NE needs to get the game script back in their favor. Lately, they have been giving up points early and struggling offensively . . . which will spell doom against a running team with a good defense. If they can go back to getting stops / turnovers / some offense and points early, that would go a long way.
While the offense has been struggling, there are reasons for that. While the offense won't be "fixed," they may get a little better. Everyone on offense has been banged up (which makes getting a bye absolutely imperative). And since that has been the case, the offense hasn't really had a chance to gel. So the offense in mid-December looks like the NE offense typically looks earlier in the season.
I don't know how hurt guys are and if they can get any healthier. That's a tough call, as guys that are nicked up could easily stay nicked up. Part of the issue is Brady hasn't been able to practice much, so the chemistry issues have persisted and lasted way longer than they should have. I also put a lot on McDaniels, as he should be able to better scheme ways to get people open or give bit players some routes that should be open.
What could save NE down the road is that the projected playoff teams as of today (BAL, KC, HOU, BUF, PIT), the other QB's have accounted for only one playoff win (Mahomes). If the NE offense can get one drive for a TD and one drive for a FG (to go along with big plays or short fields from the defense), I think they could win games score 17-21 points.
Of their three losses, the most disconcerting was the Texans game. They were never really in that game and some garbage time production made the score look closer than it really was. However, on the flip side, I think the Ravens game was a lot closer than the final score indicated. NE was about to take the lead in the second half when Edelman fumbled and swung the score by 14 points on one play. NE also committed several dumb penalties at the worst times (which they rarely do). In the KC game, they were right there and if not for some poor calls they could have won that game.
So I think in a few weeks and some improvement on offense (like to average levels not to prior NE offense levels), NE would win a rematch against KC or HOU in NE. I doubt they would beat BAL in BAL, but I didn't think they would beat KC in KC last year (so who knows). I also think that a team like BUF or PIT might be able to do better against the Ravens than the Pats would. Maybe one of those teams wins in the divisional round (say BUF over HOU) to set up the chance for an upset of the Ravens. I doubt a wildcard team would be able to beat both KC and BAL, so that likely won't happen.
AngryPatriot
Footballguy
Have faith, one game at a time. No one does it better and they have held back some cards, other areas are heading towards success, the defense is excellent. Playoff bound, let them all write us off, it's over... hehehe
I will agree that the one guy who has gotten too much of a pass is McDaniels, he has flat out sucked at times, but also ok to flounder a bit when your 10-1. He needs to step it up and attack defenses, arial attack. It's going to happen.
I will agree that the one guy who has gotten too much of a pass is McDaniels, he has flat out sucked at times, but also ok to flounder a bit when your 10-1. He needs to step it up and attack defenses, arial attack. It's going to happen.
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
What I think is funny is the sports media talking heads have been beating up the Pats for their inability to run the football. Then they have a game where they average almost 6 yards a carry running the ball for 177 yards and all those guys did this week was complain that Brady had the lowest passing total of the season.AngryPatriot said:
I also love hearing how stupid NE was in trading for Sanu and not Sanders. But no one wants to talk about how little time Brady has to throw and Sanders has been running deeper and more time consuming routes. Folks just want to transfer his 7 catches for 160 yards and a TD to the NE stat sheet like it was guaranteed production.
I know there are a lot of IF's for the offense, but if they start using Harry more, if Edelman can get a little healthier, if Sanu's ankle heals up, if they remember Dorsett is still on the team (10 catches in the last 6 games and only 2 catches for 15 yards in the last 3 games), the offense should be able to score in the teens. Add in a score or great field position from the defense and they should be able to score 17-21 points if not more.
I do agree, though, that their margin for error is slim and they have to rely on the defense bringing their A game or they will be in trouble come the playoffs. If they beat BUF and MIA, that would still give them 4 weeks to get a little healthy and the offense a little more in rhythm.
And as a side note, has a team rostered two more troubled wide receivers in the same season than NE did with AB and Gordon?
Casting Couch
Footballguy
Losing Devlin and Andrews has really hurt this team. Not replacing Gronk was short-sighted, I still don't understand why you basically give away Hollister with nothing else at TE. AB with his head on straight would have made a huge difference. It's going to be tough to win at Baltimore with the current roster.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
They wanted Jared Cook but he refused to consider NE as long as Gronk was still a possibility. By the time Gronk retired, there wasn't much left to pick from for TE's. Why they didn't draft a TE is beyond me. As far as Hollister goes, he didn't really show much in NE as he was constantly hurt. He only got a shot in SEA due to multiple injuries to other guys. I still don't think he is much more than a JAG (and has 8 yard ypr). Put another way, Hollister wasn't the answer. I also think NE felt they could coddle Gronk and get him to return, which obviously didn't happen.
In order to win in BAL, the defense will have to carry the weight and play way better. I know this is very unscientific, but the Ravens are due to have a poor outing one of these weeks. They have only turned the ball over 5 times in their past 8 games while creating 15 turnovers. For all the hype that NE got pasted by the Ravens, the net yardage was only +30 yards for BAL. In a rematch, the hurry up offense could easily work again, throw in a couple of gadget plays, and I don't think the game will be a walkover either way. Add in some evil genius defensive schemes and NE would have a chance (although I would pick BAL to win). And as I mentioned earlier today, the playoffs are a whole 'nother animal and for now none of the other AFC playoff contenders have QB's with any playoff success. Not saying those teams can't win, but they haven't so far.
Casting Couch
Footballguy
Izzo, Lacosse and Ben Watson ? Hollister showed more talent and upside than any of these guys. He's proving to be a decent option in Seattle, and could have partially filled the huge void at TE.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
In his time in NE, Hollister didn't show anything more than any of those three guys. Hollister had 8 catches in two years and was usually banged up. They went looking for a TE and thought Gronk could come back. No one knew what would happen AFTER the fact. He's had 2-3 decent games for the Seahawks, and again, what a player does elsewhere is not indicative of how he would have fared in NE. He's averaging 29 yards a game, Would that really have made a huge impact on the NE offense even if that's what he did in NE? There bigger problem is they lost Gronk and Allen, both of whom were very good blockers.
The_Man
Footballguy
The Ravens were winning 17-0, had outgained the Patriots 206-13 while scoring on their first 3 drives, and were getting the ball back again when they fumbled a punt on their own 20. And then one drive later they fumbled again on their own 15. So while the Edelman play was huge, inopportune turnovers hurt the Ravens at least as much as the Patriots in that game.Anarchy99 said:
There's no doubt the Patriots are a different animal in the playoffs, but the Ravens have always given them all they can handle in the postseason, even when they weren't as good as this year's team. I think the Ravens match up well against them - New England's front 7 is pretty lumbering which helps Lamar get to the edge and helps TEs get open in the passing game. And whereas most offenses are at a huge disadvantage when Gilmore takes away their #1 WR, Baltimore is happy to go whole games not throwing that way, so they can concede that matchup and just play 10-on-10 everywhere else.
Realistically, Wild Card games are probably going to be Pittsburgh at KC and Buffalo at Houston. Of all years, this is a great one to have the #1 seed in the AFC. To me it looks like there are 3 clear top teams in the AFC, so I'd be very happy if the Ravens are set up to await the winner of KC-NE at home.
Casting Couch
Footballguy
I completely agree with this, although I do think Hollister is a better option than anyone on the current NEP roster. Very shortsighted of BB not to have a backup plan at TE.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I agree with what you wrote but I also think the teams are constructed differently. NE this year is far more reliant on their defense, forcing turnovers, and giving the offense a short field to work with. They always have been known for being disciplined and not having committing dumb penalties and not turning the ball over. So this year's NE team by the defense forcing turnovers (9 games with 2 or more turnovers). The one game they didn't get a turnover was the Texans game. On the flip side, they have played 11 games this season with 0-1 turnovers.
NE will obviously have to play better than last time, but by the time Edelman fumbled, the momentum had switched, the Ravens defense was getting dog tired from the no huddle, and NE was on the verge of taking the lead. A score of 20-17 of NE with the Ravens on their heels is a lot different than 24-13 BAL and the Ravens getting a huge jump in energy and momentum because of it. Who knows what would have happened had Edelman not fumbled and the Pats went in to score. It could have changed the landscape for the entire AFC this year. Not saying the Patriots would have won . . . but they certainly would have been in a better position to win than after the fumble return for a TD.
Similarly, a lot of people are pointing to the Chiefs win a couple of weeks ago as a clear and decisive win for the Chiefs and conclude that the same outcome would present itself if the two played in NE again. The game was close, the calls didn't go NE's way, and I did not come away from that game thinking the Chiefs were a far superior team. But we are a long way from a NE rematch against anyone other than the Bills.
Bossman
Footballguy
So true.
Pats XXL defense struggles mightily with running QB's, fast TE's and pass catching RB's.
Just sooooo slow up front. I think Brady could win a footrace with the Pats LB corps.
Ravens are absolutely the worst matchup for them ... should both team make it to the AFC Champ game.
Best scenario for Pats, obviously, have Bills or Texans take out BAL playoff week 2.
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SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Bossman and I agree. Surely a sign of the looming apocalypse.Bossman said:
Van Noy and Hightower having to cover TEs and speed backs is the icing on top of the #cantguardLamar cake.
Toss in little doubt that this offense can't possibly score 30 against KC, Baltimore and SanFran or NO and I'm shorting the 7th ring stock.
We need Ingram or Kelce to throw some dirt on NE's grave...
grateful zed
Footballguy
is Gostkowski worth rostering in dyno?
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Every year is different, but I didn't think they stood a chance last year either. I felt both the offense and defense were suspect in 2018 . . . and the defense held the Rams to 3 points. They made a playoff run off of throwing to Edelman and running Michel . . . with Gronk sprinkled in at key moments. Gronk isn't around to bail them out, but the defense should be solid enough that NE won't have to score 30 points to win (at least in theory).
As I mentioned previously, the rest of the AFC quarterbacks have a total of 1 playoff win combined, and I would bet that NE is still plenty good enough to win a home game off of a bye. Their best bet is for someone else to take out the Ravens, which while unlikely is at least a remote possibility.
And for as poorly as NE played in BAL earlier in the season, they were an Edelman fumble away from taking the lead in the second half. That turned out to be a 14 point swing in a game they lost by 17. The Ravens only outgained NE by 30 yards in the game. I wouldn't think NE would win in BAL, but I would not rule it out of the question.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Maybe you're right, but by my eyes:
1. last years run game was MILES better than this years, for known reasons (fullbacks, tight ends).
2. Ravens just looked superior in pretty much every way against the Pats.
In the back of my mind, there's room for some Belichickian voodoo to scrape out one maybe two post season wins but the cupboard is pretty bare.
If NE does face Baltimore, I think you have to hope that Baltimore plays an imperfect game. Maybe Lamar has some jitters that last a quarter or so.
Also, you have to think that Bill B. learned something from a) The loss to the Ravens earlier this season, and b) From most of the first half of the CLE game where the BALT offense was surprisingly ineffective.
NE's D is going to give them a fighting chance in any game, but it's the offense that has to step it up. I don't think they're going to regain the rushing form from last year completely minus Gronk/Devlin and this year's offensive line issues/injuries, but if they can get 80% there that would be something. Also, hoping that starting last week we're putting N. Harry on an accelerated path to contributing in the playoffs. Really hope they get him in the groove vs. a lousy MIA secondary. Get him some confidence with Brady.
Bossman
Footballguy
I don't think Fitzmagic / Parker read this ... lol
Parker 8/137 ... 17 yds per avg.
Gilmore was exposed.
but no reason for QB's to shy away from Gilmore now.
Bossman
Footballguy
Hard to place blame in any one area in the loss to MIA yesterday.
- Bradys pick 6 was about as bad as it gets.
Not sure if he overthrew White there or just a lazy pass to Edleman. Either way, pretty bad.
That play was one of a few that cost them the game.
- Defense was porous against the pass. Seemed like guys were open all over the field.
... again, TE's doing damage against much slower LB's. Gilmore not holding up well at all 1 on 1 vs Parker.
- Coaching was very suspect. NE had a chance to get the ball back with just under 2 mins and having 3 TO's at the end of the first half ...
they elected to let the clock run on MIA's 4th down (punt) instead of using a TO. Then ran the ball twice to kill the clock and end the half.
Not the "Patriot Way" that we've come to know. And again, former member of NE coaching staff out coaches BB and co.
- James White continuing to make plays EVERY time he catches the ball. ... scoring on the screen pass that I've been begging for every week
.... and yet they continue to look elsewhere on critical downs.
I'm not a "stat" guy but I bet if someone were able to look up White pass catching, it would show him avg about a 1st down per catch.
and these are mostly short throws / high percentage passing plays. Just feels like it's an automatic big play when they DO call it.
Saving him for when they are down 28-3 in the 3rd I guess.
- Red zone offense is a major problem. They really need some better plays for this and McDaniels seems to have nothing that is working.
Sanu and Harry, two bigs that I would think they could take advantage of there. Maybe just keep throwing to the Fullback / LB then.
- This defense that they are leaning on to win playoff games, 1 sack all day? Fitzmagic standing back there picking apart the secondary.
They couldn't stop MIA when the game was on the line. They didn't DARE call a blitz that game.
Suppose NE fan can hope they flip a switch and go into playoff mode like they did last year. This season feels different tho.
Silver lining, bonus playoff game next week!
- Bradys pick 6 was about as bad as it gets.
Not sure if he overthrew White there or just a lazy pass to Edleman. Either way, pretty bad.
That play was one of a few that cost them the game.
- Defense was porous against the pass. Seemed like guys were open all over the field.
... again, TE's doing damage against much slower LB's. Gilmore not holding up well at all 1 on 1 vs Parker.
- Coaching was very suspect. NE had a chance to get the ball back with just under 2 mins and having 3 TO's at the end of the first half ...
they elected to let the clock run on MIA's 4th down (punt) instead of using a TO. Then ran the ball twice to kill the clock and end the half.
Not the "Patriot Way" that we've come to know. And again, former member of NE coaching staff out coaches BB and co.
- James White continuing to make plays EVERY time he catches the ball. ... scoring on the screen pass that I've been begging for every week
.... and yet they continue to look elsewhere on critical downs.
I'm not a "stat" guy but I bet if someone were able to look up White pass catching, it would show him avg about a 1st down per catch.
and these are mostly short throws / high percentage passing plays. Just feels like it's an automatic big play when they DO call it.
Saving him for when they are down 28-3 in the 3rd I guess.
- Red zone offense is a major problem. They really need some better plays for this and McDaniels seems to have nothing that is working.
Sanu and Harry, two bigs that I would think they could take advantage of there. Maybe just keep throwing to the Fullback / LB then.
- This defense that they are leaning on to win playoff games, 1 sack all day? Fitzmagic standing back there picking apart the secondary.
They couldn't stop MIA when the game was on the line. They didn't DARE call a blitz that game.
Suppose NE fan can hope they flip a switch and go into playoff mode like they did last year. This season feels different tho.
Silver lining, bonus playoff game next week!