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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (1 Viewer)

Hard to place blame in any one area in the loss to MIA yesterday.

- Bradys pick 6 was about as bad as it gets.

Not sure if he overthrew White there or just a lazy pass to Edleman. Either way, pretty bad.

That play was one of a few that cost them the game.
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It wasn't White, it was Michel. Brady wasn't expecting two guys in the same spot.

- Defense was porous against the pass. Seemed like guys were open all over the field.

... again, TE's doing damage against much slower LB's. Gilmore not holding up well at all 1 on 1 vs Parker.
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IMO, playing against Flores was a huge factor. In the first game, MIA as a team and coaching staff was not used to being together. By the end of the season, they were a much different team. Flores knew what the defensive coverage would be and where to exploit them.

- Coaching was very suspect. NE had a chance to get the ball back with just under 2 mins and having 3 TO's at the end of the first half ...

they elected to let the clock run on MIA's 4th down (punt) instead of using a TO. Then ran the ball twice to kill the clock and end the half.

Not the "Patriot Way" that we've come to know. And again, former member of NE coaching staff out coaches BB and co. 
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Yeah, they mishandled their timeouts and the clock in both halves. But BB didn't want to risk giving up a turnover and giving away points just before halftime. I am sure he regrets going for it at the end of the first half against the Bills and giving up a TD. Brady wasn't having a great game and had some poor passes. I would have thought they would have tried a screen or an out at the sticks to try to get a first down before packing things in for the half.

- James White continuing to make plays EVERY time he catches the ball. ... scoring on the screen pass that I've been begging for every week 

....  and yet they continue to look elsewhere on critical downs.

I'm not a "stat" guy but I bet if someone were able to look up White pass catching, it would show him avg about a 1st down per catch.

and these are mostly short throws / high percentage passing plays. Just feels like it's an automatic big play when they DO call it.

Saving him for when they are down 28-3 in the 3rd I guess.
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I am pretty sure they would use White more if the defensive alignment dictated it. If he is covered or there is a zone that takes him out of the play, getting him the ball for -2 yards wouldn't help any. They did use White more and had big plays negated by penalties. IMO, they need to use Burkhead more both running and receiving, as he is the one back that defenses can't have any idea if it's a pass or a run.

- Red zone offense is a major problem. They really need some better plays for this and McDaniels seems to have nothing that is working.

Sanu and Harry, two bigs that I would think they could take advantage of there. Maybe just keep throwing to the Fullback / LB then.
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Part of this falls on Brady, I think, as he doesn't want to play with Meyers, he doesn't trust his TE's, Sanu hasn't done much (which partly is due to his ankle injury), and Michel can't run the ball in from the 9 yard line. Edelman being 40-50% is another big issue which isn't going away.
 

- This defense that they are leaning on to win playoff games, 1 sack all day? Fitzmagic standing back there picking apart the secondary.

They couldn't stop MIA when the game was on the line. They didn't DARE call a blitz that game. 
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They did blitz, which is when MIA went to quick slants that lit up Gilmore and the other DB's couldn't stop either.

Suppose NE fan can hope they flip a switch and go into playoff mode like they did last year. This season feels different tho.

Silver lining, bonus playoff game next week!
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They may win next week but the Titans are a bad match up both personnel wise, scheme wise, and coaching wise. But the Pats are done this year either way. The offense is too banged up and I think Brady's hurt more than they are leading on. It will be interesting to see what happens with him next year. As I posted in another thread, would the team be better off with Stidham and $30+ million of upgrades to the offense (while returning the defense pretty much as is)?
 

 
Tough but not entirely unpredictable end to the season.

Lot of dominoes potentially to fall: McDaniels leaving, Scarnecchia retirement, ton of potential FAs on the defensive side of the ball, and of course, Tom Brady.

Still feel like the defense is championship caliber, but the offense has to be improved.

The problem: How do you fill those holes AND pay Brady?

And the question: Are you in a better position to compete long term if you fill those holes by NOT paying/moving forward with Brady?

Interesting times.

 
kyoun1e said:
Tough but not entirely unpredictable end to the season.

Lot of dominoes potentially to fall: McDaniels leaving, Scarnecchia retirement, ton of potential FAs on the defensive side of the ball, and of course, Tom Brady.

Still feel like the defense is championship caliber, but the offense has to be improved.

The problem: How do you fill those holes AND pay Brady?

And the question: Are you in a better position to compete long term if you fill those holes by NOT paying/moving forward with Brady?

Interesting times.
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One thing I don't quite get - there's lots of talk about Brady moving on. But I don't understand who is going to play QB for the Pats if he does. If he wants to play, how do they let him walk? Who is the QB next year?

 
whoknew said:
One thing I don't quite get - there's lots of talk about Brady moving on. But I don't understand who is going to play QB for the Pats if he does. If he wants to play, how do they let him walk? Who is the QB next year?
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Mariota?  Stidham?  

 
JohnnyU said:
Mariota?  Stidham?  
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Most of the reports this season on Stidham have been glowing and many thought the Pats got a steal with him. That said, he may need another year of seasoning. 

Will be curious to see if they double dip on young QBs in the draft. Especially if the likes of a Hebert fall to them.

 
kyoun1e said:
Most of the reports this season on Stidham have been glowing and many thought the Pats got a steal with him. That said, he may need another year of seasoning. 

Will be curious to see if they double dip on young QBs in the draft. Especially if the likes of a Hebert fall to them.
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None of the top QBs are going to drop to NE.  Hell, they won't even drop to the Colts at #13.

 
kyoun1e said:
Most of the reports this season on Stidham have been glowing and many thought the Pats got a steal with him. That said, he may need another year of seasoning. 

Will be curious to see if they double dip on young QBs in the draft. Especially if the likes of a Hebert fall to them.
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They're already pretty thin with draft picks after wasting a 2nd on Sanu. Sent a 4th somewhere for some other players that didn't work out.

Much of the demise of this Dynasty can but put on poor drafting. Tough to hang our hopes on a rebuild via draft picks.

For whatever reason, this management can not draft WR's ... unless you consider the one guy that worked out ... drafted as a QB.

CB's have been another area where they continue to draft poorly. Causing them to overpay for Gilmore and less salary cap to be spent elsewhere.

 
In the least surprising news category, Edelman to have shoulder surgery to repair a separated AC joint and knee surgery to remove a loose body in his knee. 

 
Anarchy99 said:
The issue will be will Brady play for a deep discount. 
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I think this probably depends on whether Brady believes the Pats will actually get him real help instead of the crap he’s had to deal with lately. Brady is not driven by money at this point. He wants to go where he can win another Super Bowl.

 
Gandalf said:
I think this probably depends on whether Brady believes the Pats will actually get him real help instead of the crap he’s had to deal with lately. Brady is not driven by money at this point. He wants to go where he can win another Super Bowl.
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all this talk about "no talent around Brady" ...

They won their first 3 SB with less on offense imo.

How quickly people forget the Troy Brown / Dion Branch / Reche Caldwel days.

... even as recent as 2015 with Edleman / Amendola / and Brandon Lefel.  Do we think these guys were the difference makers?

imo, the one missing component this year was Gronk. His late sudden retirement made filling that void impossible. If Brady wants to hold that against management then so be it.

Had Gronk retired soon after the Championship, the Pats then could have considered trading up for a TJ Hockensen or Noah Fant ... instead of drafting Nkeal Harry and Damian Harris.  :X ... 

 
... and while I'm on the subject ....

I really hope one of the stipulations for Josh McDaniels to be sticking around with the Pats the last two years .. (instead of taking a HC job elsewhere)

was that he would control some of the draft pick selections.

... because I really hope that it wasn't Bill Belichick drafting Sony Michelle and Damien Harris .. and Nkeal Harry for that matter.

Pains me to think of the players that were available at those picks that they passed on. This team would still be the SB favorite that we thought they were coming into this season. 

If McDaniels was the guy pulling that trigger, don't let the door hit you in the brain on the way out.

 
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Bossman said:
... because I really hope that it wasn't Bill Belichick drafting Sony Michelle and Damien Harris .. and Nkeal Harry for that matter.
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I find your summary judgement of these picks to be weird....particularly in light of how dominant NE's run game was late 2018 with a healthy fullback and solid oline & TE run blocking.

 
Lots of creative revisionist history and targeted propaganda going on. Comparing teams from the early 2000's to now is silly. The game today is so different. For example, there were 11 QB's with 4,000 passing yards this season and 12 last season. In 2001, there were 2.

Top skill position players on NE's SB teams:

2001: Smith, Faulk, Brown, Patten
2003: Smith, Faulk, Patten, Brown, Branch, Givens, Graham
2004: Dillon, Faulk, Givens, Pattem, Branch, Graham
2007: Maroney, Faulk, Morris, Moss, Welker, Stallworth, Gaffney,  Watson
2011: BJGE, Woodhead, Ridley, Welker, Branch, Gronk, Hernandez
2014: Vereen, Ridley, Blount, Edelman, LaFell, Amendola, Gronk
2016: Blount, Lewis, White, Edelman, Hogan, Amendola, Mitchell, Gronk, Bennett
2017: Lewis, White, Burkhead, Cooks, Amendola, Hogan, Gronk, Allen
2018: Michel, White, Burkhead, Edelman, Gordon, Hogan, Patterson, Gronk, Allen

After the year they rolled out the corpse of Troy Brown and Reche Caldwell, they added Moss, Welker, Stallworth, and Gaffney. That 2006 (237 points allowed) was very similar to the 2019 team  (225 points allowed).

Anyone suggested that NE will roster the same offense next year is choosing to ignore that NE will try to address their flaws. Clearly the last two seasons the offense has not had the same talent level and play makers as years past. People also need to remember that there are teams now that can score in buckets when 15-20 years ago those teams were hard to come by.

The Pats have tried to address some of their issues on offense the past few seasons. The problem is they didn't work out.They will go back to the drawing board for next year and make changes. Maybe those will work out, maybe they won't. But they are not going to just stand pat and the roster the way it is. Having guys new to the system and having multiple players get hurt were a big part of what derailed the offense. That won't help any team's chances.

And it's also silly to play the what if game for who NE DIDN'T draft over the years. Plenty of draft picks don't work out for all teams and every other team in the league has passed on plenty of players that turned out to be stars. There is a ton of luck involved in landing players that turn out to be productive.

I also will reiterate that 3/4 of the league would kill to have a 12-4 team and make the playoffs. Had many of those teams accomplished that, those teams would be looked at as top contenders next year. Yet for NE, it's woe be gone, the end is near, and they are staring at a 5 win season next year. And again, until we know how the roster and coaching staff looks for next year, it's a fool's errand to try to make any sort of educated prediction or analysis for the 2020 season.

 
Uh, I’m just gonna leave this right here.  :unsure:

TMZ reports Julian Edelman was arrested for misdemeanor vandalism Saturday night in Beverly Hills.

Police allege Edelman, who was believed to be under the influence of alcohol, jumped on the hood of a parked Mercedes around 9 PM local time, causing damage to the vehicle. The 33-year-old was cited and released later that night. The Los Angeles County D.A. is still weighing whether to charge him with a crime, though TMZ suggests Edelman may be able to avoid legal consequences if he agrees to simply pay for the damages. It's not a particularly good look for the long-tenured slot receiver, though this incident probably won't amount to much.
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Drug charges against Patrick Chung have been dropped provided he stays clean for 2 years and passes monthly drug tests. Not sure what that will mean to the league, seeing how to the best of my knowledge he has not been in their drug remediation program with the league.

Center David Andrews is said to be feeling better and he sounds hopeful he can play in 2020 (although it does not sound like he has been medically cleared to return yet).

 
Anarchy99 said:
Drug charges against Patrick Chung have been dropped provided he stays clean for 2 years and passes monthly drug tests. Not sure what that will mean to the league, seeing how to the best of my knowledge he has not been in their drug remediation program with the league.
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I believe a plea bargain puts him into the program

 
Anarchy99 said:
Not sure what the league will do based on him settling the case, especially if he never failed a league drug test. This one is in somewhat uncharted waters.
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I think he would get suspended - the league I am sure had access to the police report. This is not a dismissal because he is innocent it’s basically the result of a diversionary program (which is the way these arrests should be handled).

 
Balco said:
I think he would get suspended - the league I am sure had access to the police report. This is not a dismissal because he is innocent it’s basically the result of a diversionary program (which is the way these arrests should be handled).
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There will likely be a difference in how the NFL approached it (ie, what he violated). When the story broke, it sounded like this would fall under the personal conduct policy (a criminal charge) and not the substance or PED section of the CBA (because he may not have tested positive in a drug test). The case was very different because at the time the police were involved, Chung was out of state and the drugs were said to have been found in his summer home in NH. Not sure if Chung will get to tell his side of the story to the league and if that will play into any potential punishment. Some media outlets have said his other wise clean record might make a difference. We all know the league will do whatever it wants, so who knows what they will decide.

 
Anarchy99 said:
There will likely be a difference in how the NFL approached it (ie, what he violated). When the story broke, it sounded like this would fall under the personal conduct policy (a criminal charge) and not the substance or PED section of the CBA (because he may not have tested positive in a drug test). The case was very different because at the time the police were involved, Chung was out of state and the drugs were said to have been found in his summer home in NH. Not sure if Chung will get to tell his side of the story to the league and if that will play into any potential punishment. Some media outlets have said his other wise clean record might make a difference. We all know the league will do whatever it wants, so who knows what they will decide.
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I would guess at most 2 games which sounds fair. I believe the person being investigated by league is allowed to speak to officials to give their account.

 
I know I said I would stop listening to sports talk about NE (and mostly have), but I have to point out a change in the narrative BASED ON A GAME THE PATRIOTS DIDN'T EVEN PLAY IN.

Leading up to the SB, the Patriots were idiots for ever letting go of Jimmy G. As expected, he became a franchise quarterback and led the 49ers to the SB. Back home, Brady was going to leave town and the Patriots would be left with nothing at QB and on the verge of a 5-win season next year. Then the "big game" was played.

Now the story has changed. Garoppolo peed in his pants. BB's first choice was not a clutch player and will never win a SB. Jimmy flat out isn't that great. How can they trust Stidham given that they were so wrong on Jimmy G? With Brady rumored to be signing all over the place (LV, LAC, MIA, TEN, TB . . . who knows where else), now they would be lucky to get the 5 wins they projected the week before. The hot takes never cease.

 
Anarchy99 said:
I know I said I would stop listening to sports talk about NE (and mostly have), but I have to point out a change in the narrative BASED ON A GAME THE PATRIOTS DIDN'T EVEN PLAY IN.

Leading up to the SB, the Patriots were idiots for ever letting go of Jimmy G. As expected, he became a franchise quarterback and led the 49ers to the SB. Back home, Brady was going to leave town and the Patriots would be left with nothing at QB and on the verge of a 5-win season next year. Then the "big game" was played.

Now the story has changed. Garoppolo peed in his pants. BB's first choice was not a clutch player and will never win a SB. Jimmy flat out isn't that great. How can they trust Stidham given that they were so wrong on Jimmy G? With Brady rumored to be signing all over the place (LV, LAC, MIA, TEN, TB . . . who knows where else), now they would be lucky to get the 5 wins they projected the week before. The hot takes never cease.
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My only input is that sports talk is sports talk everywhere.  90% of the talking heads have no idea what they are talking about.

 
IMO, that breaks the bank on a Brady deal (unless he want to play for $10-15 million).   They had about $40 million in cap room prior to McCourty and Thuney news. 

 
Kraft... said:
Just heard Pats tagged Tunney, supposedly to the tune of 14+ mil. 
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Big surprise on this one...it may have happened but I can't remember reading/hearing one time where a local media member projected this move...he was seen as a gonner this offseason...gotta keep the new QB upright I guess... 

 
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Maybe they will trade Tunney :shrug:  Peter King mentioned Deandre Hopkins in his Monday Column as a possible trade candidate. A couple weeks ago someone local(forget who) reported a potential big trade was coming for the Pats(Diggs name was thrown around IIRC) maybe it was Hopkins :popcorn:   

 
Kraft... said:
Maybe they will trade Tunney :shrug:  Peter King mentioned Deandre Hopkins in his Monday Column as a possible trade candidate. A couple weeks ago someone local(forget who) reported a potential big trade was coming for the Pats(Diggs name was thrown around IIRC) maybe it was Hopkins :popcorn:   
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The problem is I don't believe they can trade Thuney until after the season rolls over . . . meaning NE would have to eat the $13.5 million cap hit by then. Hopkins carries a $14 million cap hit himself. That would be on par with Thuney, but that still would leave NE woefully short on money available to pay Brady.

 
ESPN reporting Philip Dorsett drawing interest from the Jets, Seahawks, Chargers, 49ers and Raiders. Guessing that means he won't be back (which is probably a good thing for NE . . . he seemed like he could almost play . . . and then disappeared for weeks at a time).

 
Van Noy did a real good job and was a solid locker-room guy for the Pats...he will be missed although I don't think anyone is surprised he is leaving for more money...will be interesting to see how he does outside of Foxboro...Collins cashes in for a second time from being a Patriot...Detroit will regret that deal, he is not worth that type of money...that being said LB now becomes another area of need for the Pats...if Hightower goes down things could get real dicey there...there's a lot of work to do this off-season and not a ton of money to do it with it (at least right now)...Pats need to ace this draft...they really need a nice influx of good, cheap young players.

 
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