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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread

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1 hour ago, Casting Couch said:

I think Julian Edelman will be the go to guy in this Cam offense, very underrated in fantasy circles this season.

I think another top 10 PPR season is a lock if he plays 14 games. 

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1 hour ago, Casting Couch said:

I think Julian Edelman will be the go to guy in this Cam offense, very underrated in fantasy circles this season.

My concerns for Edelman . . .

- NE should be much more run centric than in the past, probably 10-15% fewer passing attempts. 
- Cam 10% or more less accurate than Brady completion wise. 
- Edelman insane chemistry with Brady. Who knows what JE and Cam could cobble together in 3 weeks.
- Brady and Jules had all sorts of hot reads when the two of them knew exactly what to do. I doubt Cam will have the ability to read and react to that this early. At least he didn’t in training camp. 
- Edelman getting old and still frail. 
- Cam historically relied more on TE and RB in Carolina.
- Edelman averaged around 10 targets a game with TB12. I would not be surprised if that dropped by a third.
- NE has no other established WR or TE, which should get Edelman bracket coverage and very tight windows to throw into. 

Blend all that together, and I would expect a season in the range of Jamison Crowder last year (78-834-6). That ranked WR26 in PPR leagues last year. His ADP in expert leagues is WR33, so he should still be considered undervalued but I doubt he approaches his numbers from last year. 

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X factor is Harry and the young TEs...if they are legit then Edelman will get more breathing room...if not then Edelman will be covered by 7 guys on every play.

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3 minutes ago, Boston said:

X factor is Harry and the young TEs...if they are legit then Edelman will get more breathing room...if not then Edelman will be covered by 7 guys on every play.

From what I have seen and heard, Harry hasn’t shown much improvement from last year so far. Still struggling to get open and dropping too many passes on the occasions when he does. Byrd said to be a surprise with more speed than they’ve had. Remains to be seen if he is Dorsett v2.0 or if he could be more valuable. Could be a Ted Ginn type. 

I did hear an interesting discussion that in 2018, the Panthers had the highest YPC and highest total yards per play against 7 men in the box with Cam. I don’t know if that had more to do with CMC or other Panthers personnel, but the discussion theorized that Cam was the reason. 

I also found it interesting that Cam’s second most targeted player in camp after Edelman was Burkhead. I am not sure what that means (if anything) or if that is a sign they may use Rex as a slot receiver more. 

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7 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

From what I have seen and heard, Harry hasn’t shown much improvement from last year so far. Still struggling to get open and dropping too many passes on the occasions when he does. Byrd said to be a surprise with more speed than they’ve had. Remains to be seen if he is Dorsett v2.0 or if he could be more valuable. Could be a Ted Ginn type. 

I did hear an interesting discussion that in 2018, the Panthers had the highest YPC and highest total yards per play against 7 men in the box with Cam. I don’t know if that had more to do with CMC or other Panthers personnel, but the discussion theorized that Cam was the reason. 

I also found it interesting that Cam’s second most targeted player in camp after Edelman was Burkhead. I am not sure what that means (if anything) or if that is a sign they may use Rex as a slot receiver more. 

The constant word I hear about Harry is inconsistency...one day he looks like the real deal and the next day he doesn't...if he is not legit that is a huge blow not just for this year but for the future...this is not a strong unit with Harry being good and without him playing well it could be competing for worst in the league.

Edited by Boston

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4 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

From what I have seen and heard, Harry hasn’t shown much improvement from last year so far. Still struggling to get open and dropping too many passes on the occasions when he does. Byrd said to be a surprise with more speed than they’ve had. Remains to be seen if he is Dorsett v2.0 or if he could be more valuable. Could be a Ted Ginn type. 

I did hear an interesting discussion that in 2018, the Panthers had the highest YPC and highest total yards per play against 7 men in the box with Cam. I don’t know if that had more to do with CMC or other Panthers personnel, but the discussion theorized that Cam was the reason. 

I also found it interesting that Cam’s second most targeted player in camp after Edelman was Burkhead. I am not sure what that means (if anything) or if that is a sign they may use Rex as a slot receiver more. 

If Cam still has his cannon of an arm, things will open up for the run attack.  Byrd could be a huge surprise.  Gina was definitely FF relevant with Cam.

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This is like old school Pats, I have no idea how they will be this season...could make a case for anywhere between 11-5 and 5-11...if they are gonna be a playoff contender today is real important...home against a Division/AFC opponent that is not one of the iron their schedule...a loss today would really hurt in the playoff tie-breaker area.

Edited by Boston

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14 minutes ago, Boston said:

The constant word I hear about Harry is inconsistency...one day he looks like the real deal and the next day he doesn't...if he is not legit that is a huge blow not just for this year but for the future...this is not a strong unit with Harry being good and without him playing well it could be competing for worst in the league.

Harry inactive today. 

Edit to add: heard conflicting reports. Can someone confirm one way or the other?

Weird. I got a notification that Keene was an active and Harry inactive and one where those were flip flopped. Looks like Harry will play. 

Edited by Anarchy99

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5 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Harry inactive today. 

Edit to add: heard conflicting reports. Can someone confirm one way or the other?

Weird. I got a notification that Keene was an active and Harry inactive and one where those were flip flopped. Looks like Harry will play. 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/09/13/week-one-early-inactives-10/

Harry not listed here...wonder what is up with Uche...heard he was one of the stars of camp.

https://nesn.com/2020/09/patriots-inactives-reaction-third-string-qb-jarrett-stidham-josh-uche-out/

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2 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

Maybe a healthy scratch?

Pretty impressive getting a reception while inactive.

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On 9/10/2020 at 10:19 PM, BassNBrew said:

You guys have any empty seats on the bandwagon?  I'd like to be a fan this year.

Did i mention I was bring along Cam Newton?

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4 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

Pretty impressive getting a reception while inactive.

We were talking about Uche. Try to keep up.

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Curious if anyone in this thread thinks either of S. Michel or D. Harris is worth holding onto understanding the usual waiver wire suspects that are out there this week?

Between Cam, Burkhead, White, JJ, Michele...that's a lot of ball carriers. 

Holding both Michel and Harris right now.

 

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On 9/13/2020 at 2:44 PM, Anarchy99 said:

We were talking about Uche. Try to keep up.

It surprised me he was a healthy scratch too. I was looking forward to watching him. 
 

Evidently NE dressed 11 dbs. Bellicheck said he saw how Miami threw a lot of 4 wr sets out there with Gisecki playing off the line. So his strategy was to use more dbs and to have plenty of substitutes to rotate to keep them fresh.

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On 9/13/2020 at 11:26 AM, Anarchy99 said:

My concerns for Edelman . . .

- NE should be much more run centric than in the past, probably 10-15% fewer passing attempts. 
- Cam 10% or more less accurate than Brady completion wise. 
- Edelman insane chemistry with Brady. Who knows what JE and Cam could cobble together in 3 weeks.
- Brady and Jules had all sorts of hot reads when the two of them knew exactly what to do. I doubt Cam will have the ability to read and react to that this early. At least he didn’t in training camp. 
- Edelman getting old and still frail. 
- Cam historically relied more on TE and RB in Carolina.
- Edelman averaged around 10 targets a game with TB12. I would not be surprised if that dropped by a third.
- NE has no other established WR or TE, which should get Edelman bracket coverage and very tight windows to throw into. 

Blend all that together, and I would expect a season in the range of Jamison Crowder last year (78-834-6). That ranked WR26 in PPR leagues last year. His ADP in expert leagues is WR33, so he should still be considered undervalued but I doubt he approaches his numbers from last year. 

Update?

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2 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

Update?

It’s a long season. Edelman’s age and health will be working against him. 

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1 minute ago, Anarchy99 said:

It’s a long season. Edelman’s age and health will be working against him. 

Edelman running for yards like he never has before will catch up with him.

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Don't think I've said this in a long time as a NE fan, but that was a good loss. Never want to lose any, but...

...in a game where they couldn't just grind it out, NE proved they can hang...offensivey...with the best.

And that secondary isn't going to face R. Wilson every week.

Feel like the season's ceiling just got higher despite the loss.

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29 minutes ago, kyoun1e said:

Don't think I've said this in a long time as a NE fan, but that was a good loss. Never want to lose any, but...

...in a game where they couldn't just grind it out, NE proved they can hang...offensivey...with the best.

And that secondary isn't going to face R. Wilson every week.

Feel like the season's ceiling just got higher despite the loss.

Well said. I agree. Wilson was on fire. It really was a case of two solid teams duking it out and one had to lose. Literally on last play of the game at the one yard line against a very good football team. I expect Seattle to go deep into the playoffs with all the weapons. Plus adding Adams was a difference maker. He had a couple point saving tackles. Great football game. I liked how Cam was passing. The more the season goes on the better his options will unfold once TE develops, and White is back. White is arguably the Pats best offensive weapon, so it was good to see they could hang without him. Hopefully White can bounce back despite the awful hand he was dealt. 

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Steve Belichick and his mullet.....of course his name is Steve, and of course he has a mullet.....I hope he drives a camaro, cuz he should.....it's the Belichicks world, we are just living in it.

Edited by Manster
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27 minutes ago, Manster said:

Steve Belichick and his mullet.....of course his name is Steve, and of course he has a mullet.....I hope he drives a camaro, cuz he should.....it's the Belichicks world, we are just living in it.

:goodposting:

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2 hours ago, kyoun1e said:

Don't think I've said this in a long time as a NE fan, but that was a good loss. Never want to lose any, but...

...in a game where they couldn't just grind it out, NE proved they can hang...offensivey...with the best.

And that secondary isn't going to face R. Wilson every week.

Feel like the season's ceiling just got higher despite the loss.

This game was excellent medicine, for the offense, for the offensive playcalling, and for the defense.

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Would have liked to see a spread offense 5 wide at the goallline on that last play. Would have given Newton more room to run, plus the passing option.

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1 hour ago, Anarchy99 said:

David Andrews and Josh Uche placed on IR. 

Not good. What is the deal with Uche. He was supposed to be a big difference maker. 

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In the impact players that no one is talking about category, rookie 6th round pick and offensive lineman Michael Onwenu has been exceptional so far. He’s played three different spots on the line but through 3 games has ranked as the 5th best lineman in the entire NFL. Had he played more in the first two games, he could have rated even higher. 

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46 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

In the impact players that no one is talking about category, rookie 6th round pick and offensive lineman Michael Onwenu has been exceptional so far. He’s played three different spots on the line but through 3 games has ranked as the 5th best lineman in the entire NFL. Had he played more in the first two games, he could have rated even higher. 

https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/2916848/no-biggie-the-patriots-have-the-top-rated-rookie-in-the-nfl

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2 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

In the impact players that no one is talking about category, rookie 6th round pick and offensive lineman Michael Onwenu has been exceptional so far. He’s played three different spots on the line but through 3 games has ranked as the 5th best lineman in the entire NFL. Had he played more in the first two games, he could have rated even higher. 

He’s a beast for running game. He is an immovable object. They run over top on his side. But he also isn’t mobile for pass protection. Having said this, I was a huge proponent of Onwenu. He’s probably like that guard out of Georgia only bigger and better. Bigger and as nasty as Mason. 

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Just now, Blackbear said:

He’s a beast for running game. He is an immovable object. They run over top on his side. But he also isn’t mobile for pass protection. Having said this, I was a huge proponent of Onwenu. He’s probably like that guard out of Georgia only bigger and better. Bigger and as nasty as Mason. 

I believe I saw a graphic that NE so far has three Top 10 offensive lineman between Onwenu, Thuney, and Mason (according to PFF). That bodes really well for the offense if they can all stay healthy.

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Just now, Anarchy99 said:

I believe I saw a graphic that NE so far has three Top 10 offensive lineman between Onwenu, Thuney, and Mason (according to PFF). That bodes really well for the offense if they can all stay healthy.

I wish Andrews can. I think he is a great center. 

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Gotta say, as much as I've liked watching this years team develop, ... not very confident going into tomorrows game vs. KC.

Pats defense has taken a step backwards.

They will need to sell out to stop the run game and contain Mahomes ... but I don't expect they will have an answer for the speed of Hill and Hardman.

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23 minutes ago, Bossman said:

Gotta say, as much as I've liked watching this years team develop, ... not very confident going into tomorrows game vs. KC.

Pats defense has taken a step backwards.

They will need to sell out to stop the run game and contain Mahomes ... but I don't expect they will have an answer for the speed of Hill and Hardman.

if they lose tomorrow but knock off Denver and a beaten-up San Fran team to be 4-2 going into the Buffalo game I will be very happy with where they are.

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Gotta think more infections coming. 

Would think the entire offense is at risk at this point.

Will be shocked if this game is played and this doesn't end up being another TN/PIT postponement situation.

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Several NE players already chiming in questioning if they should play and/or sounding a bit afraid to play. Remember the Patriots far and away had the most opt outs out of any team. That’s not even considering what the Chiefs side thinks about the situation. 

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13 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Several NE players already chiming in questioning if they should play and/or sounding a bit afraid to play. Remember the Patriots far and away had the most opt outs out of any team. That’s not even considering what the Chiefs side thinks about the situation. 

I think they need postpone the game and give time with quarantine at home for all players. If test negative after five days then resume practice. Ones that don’t stay quarantine. To play would be risky and ignore medical advice. There is no way they should play this game Monday or Tuesday. I’ve heard can be asymptomatic but contagious upto for first five days. 

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2 minutes ago, Blackbear said:

I think they need postpone the game and give time with quarantine at home for all players. If test negative after five days then resume practice. Ones that don’t stay quarantine. To play would be risky and ignore medical advice. There is no way they should play this game Monday or Tuesday. I’ve heard can be asymptomatic but contagious upto for first five days. 

I posted the NFL’s and CDC’s policies in one of the COVID related threads. One of the league’s issues is they did not base their decision making on the complete timeline of when symptoms could present. Essentially, they were making conclusions BEFORE players would test positive or show symptoms. The CDC still recommends people that may have been exposed isolate for 14 days (10 days with negative tests at the back end). The NFL has a 5 day policy if there are two negative tests at the back end. It could take 7 days to test positive. So even if NE players haven’t tested negative yet that doesn’t mean they are not infected and they could be contagious even while testing negative. A safe and conservative approach would be to push the KC NE game further into the season, but that poses logistical problems for the league. 

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What a mess.

Last week, while enjoying the games Sunday, I was thinking ... seems like the NFL figured out the covid thing ...

3 weeks in and not one issue.

Then week 4 happened.

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51 minutes ago, Bossman said:

What a mess.

Last week, while enjoying the games Sunday, I was thinking ... seems like the NFL figured out the covid thing ...

3 weeks in and not one issue.

Then week 4 happened.

I was thinking the same thing last week.

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Is there any way that the patriots can play?  Even if everyone gets the rapid test and is negative, is that conclusive that no one has it ?  If not, how can they play?

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1 minute ago, Long Ball Larry said:

Is there any way that the patriots can play?  Even if everyone gets the rapid test and is negative, is that conclusive that no one has it ?  If not, how can they play?

I guess not.

While the Patriots have not experienced any additional positive tests, the game against the Chiefs will not take place as planned. The NFL has postponed Sunday’s game after “positive COVID-19 tests on both teams.”

New from the NFL pic.twitter.com/UyUAMKI0qE

— Brian McCarthy (@NFLprguy) October 3, 2020

The league is hoping the Patriots and Chiefs can play either Monday or Tuesday. The Patriots were scheduled to travel to Kansas City on Saturday, but the flight is on standby for now.

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Nobody expected NE to win. Rightfully so. Backup QB, and the whole Covid week that it was....

but the Pats actually looked like they stood a chance ... had it not been for the plethora of mistakes;

Even if they erased half of these ... they could have had the W;

- McCourty drops an EASY INT on KCs first drive

- Hoyer with a complete brain cramp to end the half

- Mahomes strip sack that was blown dead ... then not challenged by Belichick

-Jackson drops another EASY INT ... (I'll continue to ask; why do players "jump" when catching a football? He jumps up and this ball hit him in the groin. No other sport does a player "jump" to catch the ball that is coming at their chest. Imagine how that would look in basketball or baseball. Just catch it and keep running!)

- Hoyer Red Zone fumble

- Edelman lets one slip thru his teflon gloves ... for a pick 6. ... (he really needs to find another glove. Those obviously aren't working and haven't been for a while)

- Stidhams late / under throw of Meyer wide open in the end zone... INT for KC

 

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Posted (edited)

Never envisioned being pissed off at the end of a game where I expected a blowout and winning (took the Chiefs minus the points). Yet...

Edited by brun

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7 hours ago, Bossman said:

- Mahomes strip sack that was blown dead ... then not challenged by Belichick

BB addressed this. He was told by the refs that the play was whistled dead on the field (for being in the grasp), which is a judgment call. Everything that came after that he felt was irrelevant and that as far as he knew that type of play would not be overturned.  That's different than if a player was ruled down or not down when the ball comes out, and I don't think he would have been wrong (they would have lost the challenge). Clearly the refs blew the call, but I don't think there was a good way to rectify the outcome.

When they brought in the former head of officiating on the broadcast, he made it sound like they called Mahomes down when he wasn't and NE could have challenged and won. But again, that's not what they called on the field. Once they call in the grasp, the play is over. It was very confusing and KC punted in half a second, so there was no time to sort things out.

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2 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

BB addressed this. He was told by the refs that the play was whistled dead on the field (for being in the grasp), which is a judgment call. Everything that came after that he felt was irrelevant and that as far as he knew that type of play would not be overturned.  That's different than if a player was ruled down or not down when the ball comes out, and I don't think he would have been wrong (they would have lost the challenge). Clearly the refs blew the call, but I don't think there was a good way to rectify the outcome.

When they brought in the former head of officiating on the broadcast, he made it sound like they called Mahomes down when he wasn't and NE could have challenged and won. But again, that's not what they called on the field. Once they call in the grasp, the play is over. It was very confusing and KC punted in half a second, so there was no time to sort things out.

Even if not reviewable .... was a VERY quick whistle as Mahomes was attempting to throw the ball away to avoid the loss of yardage.

I wonder if he did manage to get the pass off as he was going down ... would the refs huddle and call it an incomplete pass? Seems wishy-washy.

also felt like KC was getting the calls ... example being, with both teams having somewhat questionable tackles out of bounds ... KC gets the 15 yards and NE gets the flag picked up.

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1 minute ago, Bossman said:

Even if not reviewable .... was a VERY quick whistle as Mahomes was attempting to throw the ball away to avoid the loss of yardage.

I wonder if he did manage to get the pass off as he was going down ... would the refs huddle and call it an incomplete pass? Seems wishy-washy.

also felt like KC was getting the calls ... example being, with both teams having somewhat questionable tackles out of bounds ... KC gets the 15 yards and NE gets the flag picked up.

KC got all the calls in last year's game as well. It happens.

The Mahomes play should have been ruled a fumble or an interception. But all that happened after they blew the whistle and he was ruled in the grasp and the play was dead. Anything that happened after that never happened, so there was nothing to review. In the grasp is a judgment call that is not reviewable. BB knew that and thus didn't challenge. There was no point. Once they ruled in the grasp, Mahomes could have thrown a TD pass or a pick six. Neither would have been allowed.

Certainly NE fans have benefited over the years for special rules to protect Brady. This was a similar situation with Mahomes, the new face of the league. Same thing on the personal foul out of bounds. That shouldn't have been a penalty, but they are going to protect the $500 million man. Top tier QBs will get special treatment. This is not news.

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13 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

.

Certainly NE fans have benefited over the years for special rules to protect Brady. This was a similar situation with Mahomes, the new face of the league. Same thing on the personal foul out of bounds. That shouldn't have been a penalty, but they are going to protect the $500 million man. Top tier QBs will get special treatment. This is not news.

... which is why I could see the refs huddle and call this an incomplete pass .... had Mahomes got the pass off before going to the ground.

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