G
General Tso
Guest
I watch every Pats game, and these eyes tell me this is a very average team - at best. Thank God they've played a cake schedule so far.
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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter captain_amazing
- Start date
Run It Up
Footballguy
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
it actually has quite a bit to do with 2014 seeing as how it's the same architect and engineer
AngryPatriot
Footballguy
Ignore kool-aid, he gets like that. I watch the games and it has looked bad at times, frustrating. But- it is early. While I agree with some of your takes, especially the O-line, it can't be that bleak can it?! lol The D looks better, having Wilfork and MAyo back, adding Revis, and Jones looking great are all good things. The O-line problem is an serious one and you couple that with wr's that can't get separation (some of the time) and Brady being "off" and then yes, we have a problem. IF they get better and give Brady some time, Brady can make players better. We don't know if Amendola, LaFell, Dobson, Thompkins can be good contributors at this point in this season because Brady has no time! Gronk definitely looks slow and tentative- although seemed to run better in this game. I may be wrong but even Vereen doesn't look as dynamic as I thought he was. Ridley looks good. Maybe there's something to short practices and conditioning- but that would hold true for every team. I don't like some of the paly calling either but thats just me. It'd be nice if Tim Wright stepped up. The schedule is tough imo- Chiefs, Bengals, BEars, Broncos, Colts, Lions, Chargers and then AFC east. Jets and Miami are tougher... So it'll be a long season that will have them battle tested for the playoffs, they're 2-1, and it'll be an interesting year to see who steps up. I don't see them collapsing but improving as the season goes on. Brady will lead them.
captain_amazing
Footballguy
I agree that if they continue playing the way they have, a 9-7 projection isn't all that farfetched. But I think Larry, along with myself, believe that the Pats won't continue playing at the level they currently are playing at, and will improve significantly as the year progresses, as they historically have done.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
a very average team wins 8 games
the last time they failed to win 10 was in 2002.
the 2006 team won 12 with a receiving corps led by reche caldwell and doug gabriel
the 2008 team won 11 with cassel at qb
the 2013 team won 12 with whatever they were rolling out there week to week
I understand pats fans have become spoiled, but let's try to keep a little perspective and not get all hysterical because our team actually lost a game.
let's just focus our attention on week 4 @kc and let them play teh games to determine who's what before we jump off the ledges.
btw, if it makes you negative nancies feel any better it looks like devey might've gotten pulled for stork towards the end of that game.
we actually haven't had much in the way of key injuries so far, so there's that at least.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
and if I might add --- the saints, green bay, seattle, the colts, and the broncos are a combined 7-8
settle down
settle down
When the 2014 season is over, all we'll be talking about is just how much the Pats miss Scarnecchia. The OL always seemed to play above than their skill level while he was there, but so far, 2014 is looking a lot different.
pats3in4
Footballguy
2013 Pats were a few plays from 15-1...and 7-9. That they ended up 12-4 is a testament to their ability to find a way to win, highlighted by the brilliance of Tom Brady. That they lost by double-digits in the AFCCG is also a pretty good indicator of where they really stood.
2014 might end up a repeat, but with the D swinging the close games in their favor rather then the offense. In 3 games so far, the offense hasn't looked very sharp (the Vikings game was all D and ST). I don't know if improvement is imminent with what I've seen from the OL so far. Perhaps the breakdowns by Solder and Vollmer will subside, but the interior looks overmatched too often. If the OL can't do its job, asking Brady to pick up the slack is asking a ton, especially with WRs who don't separate from man coverage. Eventually, somebody is going to start doubling Edelman and dare the other guys to get open in the short time Brady will have before needing to throw the ball.
2014 might end up a repeat, but with the D swinging the close games in their favor rather then the offense. In 3 games so far, the offense hasn't looked very sharp (the Vikings game was all D and ST). I don't know if improvement is imminent with what I've seen from the OL so far. Perhaps the breakdowns by Solder and Vollmer will subside, but the interior looks overmatched too often. If the OL can't do its job, asking Brady to pick up the slack is asking a ton, especially with WRs who don't separate from man coverage. Eventually, somebody is going to start doubling Edelman and dare the other guys to get open in the short time Brady will have before needing to throw the ball.
captain_amazing
Footballguy
Crazy thing: I saw Devey while I was out and about today. Took a pic.
http://cdn1.theodysseyonline.com/files/2014/08/05/635428503852158853-1568732031_ktv_secure_054076_1200x1200.jpg_image_slider_product_image_slider_zoom.jpg
http://cdn1.theodysseyonline.com/files/2014/08/05/635428503852158853-1568732031_ktv_secure_054076_1200x1200.jpg_image_slider_product_image_slider_zoom.jpg
G
General Tso
Guest
Definitely not panic, but concern... I do agree with kust about everything Larry said. The team has a well documented history of improving throughout the season, so patience is in order.
What I'm pissed about though is the payroll not being where it should be. NO excuse for that.
What I'm pissed about though is the payroll not being where it should be. NO excuse for that.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
The Pats will use up the space to the cap at the end of the season if they don't have to use before hand for emergency signings. That way they can offload cap charges that they would have taken down the road this year instead. So even if they don't spend to the cap in the regular season, they can still use the room to improve things in subsequent seasons by extending current players.
G
General Tso
Guest
This guy is the guru on cap issue and the Patriots' salary - great site for those interested... http://patscap.com/
I know the guys at EEI have been pretty critical of Kraft lately, particularly Callahan. It's definitely got people riled up.
I keep hearing all these confusing stories about why the Pats need to be so far under the cap, but to be honest it just doesn't register. The time to win is now. They should be maxed out trying to win THIS YEAR. Trading Mankins to save a few bucks has really hurt the team.
I know the guys at EEI have been pretty critical of Kraft lately, particularly Callahan. It's definitely got people riled up.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
G
General Tso
Guest
What's funny is that many people (including a few on the site you just referred) have so much faith in Miguel that they tend to put more stock in his numbers than the NFL's.In any event, the salary situation is extremely confusing, but there does seem to be a lot of noise on the issue this year so I thought I'd mention it.
I dig your av as well. Brings back memories of Saturday morning cartoons.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Mankins has not been anywhere near the same player after his ACL injury. He has consistently been solid in run blocking but has been a liability in pass protection. IIRC, he ranked 33rd for guards in pass protection and allowed 9 sacks over the second half of last season (most in the league). He has very little lateral movement these days and his play in TB has been rated the worst of his long career. There's no way to prove things one way or another, but the Pats would be in the same boat even if Mankins were still on the squad. He's just not that good a player anymore.
So the question should be is it worth paying all that money and taking up that much cap room for an average guard. I would say no, ubt I suppose a case could be made that so far the current OL has not even been average. As always ith BB's decisions, let's see how things play out before jumping off a ledge. I realize people want the team to go "all in" every season, and in some ways I can see that argument. However, I personally think that the reason the Pats have not won another title in 10 years has more to do with untimely end of the season injuries many years that precluded them from winning. Again, no way to prove outcomes that neve happened, but IMO Brady's shoulder injury in 2007 played a role in them losing. Gronk's injury in 2011 also could have made an impact. There were other years where there were a bunch of injuries to key starters that killed them. Blame BB all you want, but they were in position to win every year, and even if they had mortgaged the future to "win now" they could easily have not won a SB with lots of keys injured.
Run It Up
Footballguy
What I take from this season so far is that the offense looks no worse than last year and Gronk seems to be ramping up to something, what that is I don't know yet.
That being said, our defense while allowing some pretty big plays looks amazing when its clicking. Worst case scenario, the offense doesn't improve from last years numbers but we have a much improved defense to bail us out and maybe even elevate us in the close games. I mean, they're pretty much exactly where I thought they would be, first in takeaways and first in turnover differential - expect more of the same every week.
Edit: Other stats - 1st in fewest passing yards allowed, 3rd in fewest total yards allowed
That being said, our defense while allowing some pretty big plays looks amazing when its clicking. Worst case scenario, the offense doesn't improve from last years numbers but we have a much improved defense to bail us out and maybe even elevate us in the close games. I mean, they're pretty much exactly where I thought they would be, first in takeaways and first in turnover differential - expect more of the same every week.
Edit: Other stats - 1st in fewest passing yards allowed, 3rd in fewest total yards allowed
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captain_amazing
Footballguy
Lebron James just tweeted at Bledsoe after watching the little MNF clip asking Drew to ship him a bottle of his wine... just thought that was kinda cool.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
Dobson and Thompkins inactive.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
can't wait to check out this reworked line
Solder-Connolly-Stork-Fleming-Vollmer.
edit ps also, james white active for the first time
Solder-Connolly-Stork-Fleming-Vollmer.
edit ps also, james white active for the first time
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I put a great deal of the blame on Kraft and his cheapness regardless of what he's done for this organization in the past. To me running an NFL team is like running a fantasy football team in an auction league. Would you go into a draft and not spend 9- 14 million $ of your cap? It's not like they are spending this money and redoing deals to lock guys up. Kraft will just pocket the money.
This front office doesn't seem hell bent on winning like Denver does. And 3-5 years down the road Denver will not be in cap hell and be in just as good a shape as the cheap Pats. And BB the GM sucks, plain and simple. Great coach, horrible GM. I feel bad for Brady as he deserved better than this cast of jagoffs he's surrounded with.
This front office doesn't seem hell bent on winning like Denver does. And 3-5 years down the road Denver will not be in cap hell and be in just as good a shape as the cheap Pats. And BB the GM sucks, plain and simple. Great coach, horrible GM. I feel bad for Brady as he deserved better than this cast of jagoffs he's surrounded with.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
captain_amazing
Footballguy
I think we could win the next three super bowls and we'd still have people yammering over GM Bill. You wanna know what a cheap team looks like? Look at the late 90s early 00s Bs. Cheap as could be and they stunk.
No need to
No need to stoop to that level, what part of my comments do you dispute? Just because you want to live in the past doesn't mean the rest of us think everything is hunky dory with this team. This ownership owes it's fans more than the product they are throwing out there lately.
I think the next 3 SB's, let alone 1 are most likely not happening at this rate.
ETA: So now if the 2014 cheap Pats surpass the success of the cheap Bruins of the past it's all good. OK.
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NE_REVIVAL
Footballguy
I agree the FO is not hell bent on winning this year like Denver and while I normally agree with their balanced approach I think they are doing themselves a disservice this year. I do not agree with drafting Crapolo, and letting Mankins and Kelly go (especially Kelly) right before the start of the season.
However, I disagree that it has anything to do with Kraft being cheap; they consistently spend to the cap over the time he has owned the team; the whole "cheap" thing is a bogus charge. They typically do not overpay for players (there are exceptions, Mankins, Amendola etc) but they don't typically "pocket" cap money.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
captain_amazing
Footballguy
captain_amazing
Footballguy
While I might disagree with your opinion on their recent moves, if they deserve criticism anywhere, it's with moves like they have done lately. But we don't know what that will translate into 10 games from now, but we certainly can speculate and come to different conclusions. But to say the Pats are greedy (anymore than other teams) or should be ashamed of the product they are putting on the field lately is just odd.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
There are legitimate gripes about the Patriots and how the roster is built and the approach, etc. But saying it's because Kraft is "cheap" is absurd.
captain_amazing
Footballguy
I will say this team is playing with no balls right now.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
you guys really think the pats can't get a couple scores in a half?
I know it doesn't look good, but don't panic yet.
I know it doesn't look good, but don't panic yet.
Gary Coal Man
Footballguy
No, I've seen nothing to indicate that this year's Patriots can come back from being 14 points down.
The Pats are one of the few teams in the league that don't have a single game breaker on offense. Not one player that could take the ball to the house on any given possession. They sorely need a field stretcher.
elguapo07
Footballguy
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
did miami give up at the half in week 1?
Jerry Curl
Footballguy
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
Faith is believing when common sense tells you not to. Don't you see?
Coach B really looks like a Defensive Genius tonight.
Without Brady, Belichick is under .500 with Browns and Patriots. Brady is showing his age.
Patriots also benefitted from a down AFC East over the past decade or so. Not one Elite QB to challenge the Pats. No Big Ben, Rivers, Luck, Brees, Newton, Ryan, Romo, Manning, Rodgers, Favre, Stafford, etc.
Without Brady, Belichick is under .500 with Browns and Patriots. Brady is showing his age.
Patriots also benefitted from a down AFC East over the past decade or so. Not one Elite QB to challenge the Pats. No Big Ben, Rivers, Luck, Brees, Newton, Ryan, Romo, Manning, Rodgers, Favre, Stafford, etc.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Surprised any team has anyone more than 15 yards off the line. Even is someone runs wide open down the field, Brady would miss him.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
God this defense sucks
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
If you guys didn't play in the AFC east you would finish sub .500.